Topic: Nicholas Anelka

[lorenzo23]

I can't remember Nazi liking black people that much yet he goes and does something this stupid? my mind at time really can't seem to take in what people in this world will get up to at times.

[Cusamano]

I think the FA will throw the book at him.
Over ten games ban probably.

Should be enough to finish his career

hopefully

[Zlen]

Not sure he'll mind that at all honestly.

[Twelfth Man]

Disgusting, I wondered what that was all about when I watched the game yesterday. Sachin Nikrani's Guardian article says Uefa might get involved. What did De Canio get for his Nazi salute? I don't recall him getting any sanctions.


" Di Canio received a one-match ban after the second event and was fined €7,000."

[Lush is the best medicine...]

For his second goal you can clearly see Lugano grabbing him just after he scored, pretty sure he also knew what that meant

[Henry Gale]

Showing my ignorance but why would a black man do a Nazi salute? I'm confused.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Showing my ignorance but why would a black man do a Nazi salute? I'm confused.

as a sign that they don't like Jews?

[Solomon Grundy]

Showing my ignorance but why would a black man do a Nazi salute? I'm confused.

Just shows how much some muslims hate Jews.

[saoirse08]

Showing my ignorance but why would a black man do a Nazi salute? I'm confused.

Anti-semitism makes strange bedfellows.

[SadRed]

Muslims and Nazis share one common theme. They both hate Jews.

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was a big allie of Adolf Hitler and he supported the Nazi's in World War II.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/12/muslim-leader-farouq-qaddoumi-we-supported-the-nazis-in-wwii.html

MUSLIMS and NAZIS?? You just managed to equate people on entire religion with NAZIS??!!! All muslims hate JEWS??! Wtf?!

[Solomon Grundy]

MUSLIMS and NAZIS?? You just managed to equate people on entire religion with NAZIS??!!!

Sorry should of said some muslims.

[SadRed]

Sorry should of said some muslims.

Well guess what some christians hate Jews too, Some Jews Hate Muslims, Some Christians hate Muslims and so on in all permutations.

I am pretty sure the facists who hated Jews would have hated muslims too. Infact the neo-nazis hate muslims too. These are people who base their ideology on hate - please dont equate in this way.

[SadRed]

Dont know much about this guy, Wiki says he started as a far left activist ?! So how the hell did he end up doing Nazi salutes?!

[Solomon Grundy]

Well guess what some christians hate Jews too, Some Jews Hate Muslims, Some Christians hate Muslims and so on in all permutations.

I am pretty sure the facists who hated Jews would have hated muslims too. Infact the neo-nazis hate muslims too. These are people who base their ideology on hate - please dont equate in this way.

Did you even read that link I posted?

[Solomon Grundy]

Dont know much about this guy, Wiki says he started as a far left activist ?! So how the hell did he end up doing Nazi salutes?!

If you are a French speaker, Dieudonné's Wiki makes for interesting and informative reading (it's pretty comprehensive). Having read many of the quotes he has made, I am of the view that he is an anti-Semite, not just an anti-Zionist as he claims. He also counts Mahmoud Ahmedinajad as a personal friend and political ally, which probably tells you everything you need to know. His audience is largely disenfranchised young poor people in the HLMs, a significant number of whom are impressionable young Muslims, but he seems also to have found an unlikely ally in the FN, who hate black people and Muslims but who hate Jews more. Essentially, the dude is a cross between Abu Hamza and Jim Davidson.

[Cu Chulainn]

Expect the sycophants like Clarke Carlisle to appear to pontificate to us all over the next few days.

[Bangin Them In]

Disgusting, I wondered what that was all about when I watched the game yesterday. Sachin Nikrani's Guardian article says Uefa might get involved. What did De Canio get for his Nazi salute? I don't recall him getting any sanctions.


" Di Canio received a one-match ban after the second event and was fined €7,000."

Yes but that was Italy, where unless you actually hold a Nuremberg Rally you are usually OK

With Anelka, I really do think he is just a bit simple and to quote a school report favourite, is easily influenced

[TheCharlatan]

Muslims and Nazis share one common theme. They both hate Jews.

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was a big allie of Adolf Hitler and he supported the Nazi's in World War II.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/12/muslim-leader-farouq-qaddoumi-we-supported-the-nazis-in-wwii.html

Surely allying yourself with the enemies of your colonizers is understandable. There were also strong ties between the Third Reich and Ireland.

About the gesture though, has the inventor come out and explicitly said that its anti-semitic? If not I think its a dangerous premise to start censoring things that may not even cause offense to people. From what I understand it is mostly used to evoke an anti-establishment sentiment but that certain idiots have corrupted its meaning.

All the same I doubt Anelka was being anti-semitic and probably was just supporting his mate.

[Lucas DuoFlush]

That doesn't really answer the mans question..

[۩ Imperator ۩]

Surely allying yourself with the enemies of your colonizers is understandable. There were also strong ties between the Third Reich and Ireland.

About the gesture though, has the inventor come out and explicitly said that its anti-semitic? If not I think its a dangerous premise to start censoring things that may not even cause offense to people. From what I understand it is mostly used to evoke an anti-establishment sentiment but that certain idiots have corrupted its meaning.

All the same I doubt Anelka was being anti-semitic and probably was just supporting his mate.

His mate who said of a Jewish radio presenter "Too bad the gas chambers no longer exist."

Then there is this incident:

On 26 December 2008 at an event at the Parc de la Villette in Paris, Dieudonné awarded the Holocaust denier Robert Faurisson an "insolent outcast" prize [prix de l'infréquentabilité et de l'insolence]. The award was presented by one of Dieudonné's assistants, Jacky, dressed in a concentration camp uniform with a yellow badge. This caused a scandal[44] and earned him his sixth court conviction to date. On 29 January 2009 he celebrated the 80th birthday of Faurisson in his theater, in the midst of a representative gathering of Holocaust deniers, right-wing radicals, and radical Shiites. Dieudonné and Faurisson further appeared together in a video making fun of the Holocaust and its commemoration.

There are certain 'friends' for whom it is unacceptable to show public support.

If a radical Islamist footballer (as far as I know, none exist) were to celebrate a goal in the Premier League by doing a hook-hand celebration as a show of solidarity with his buddy Abu Hamza, would that be ok because it's his mate?

[SadRed]

Did you even read that link I posted?

Are you serious??! Atlas Shrugs? I have come across it before, its full on anti-muslim propganda. And you bring this out? Dont even get me started on MEMRI.

This is what wikipedia says about her:
Pamela Geller (born June 14, 1958)[5] is an American blogger, author, political activist,[6] and commentator.[1] She is known primarily for her criticism of Islam and opposition to Islamic activities and causes, such as the proposed construction of an Islamic community center near the former site of the World Trade Center.[7] She has described her blogging and campaigns in the United States as being against what she terms "creeping Sharia" in the country. She is described as a critic of radical Islam[8] and self-described as opposing "Political Islam".[9] Her critics have described her viewpoints as Islamophobic.[10][9]


Its so stupid that the article you use to prove that muslims hate jews is infact written by a far right author who incidentially is jewish and hates muslims. Sigh.

[stoa]

I think what has to be made clear is that "La Quenelle" has nothing to do with the "Third Reich". It wasn't used there and it wasn't invented by the Nazis. The way I understand it, that "comedian" has invented the salute as a gesture of protest against the establishment. Since then it has been adopted by right-wing extremists as a kind of secret salute (instead of making the rather obvious Nazi salute). However, I don't think said "comedian" has distanced himself from it. In fact, he seems to quite like that, as those are the groups he kind of feels close to because they are anti-semitic same as him.

Nobody is saying that Muslims are Nazis or that they all hate Jews. However, there are quite a few extremist muslim groups who are really anti-semitic because of Palestine (Israel). And they seem to have found unlikely allies in extremely right-wing European (French) groups who aren't too fond of people with another religion but hate nothing more than the Jews. It's not that uncommon an occurence.

[TheCharlatan]

His mate who said of a Jewish radio presenter "Too bad the gas chambers no longer exist."

There are certain 'friends' for whom it is unacceptable to show public support.

The gesture in question is not synonymous with his friend, it symbolises an ideal

I've heard that it's inherently anti-establishment, but I've also heard that it is fascist/anti-semtie.

These are ominous times if we have to start worrying about the position of our limbs and who it offends. France a "bastion of free speech and democracy" has recently also started banning the wearing of any religious apparel/iconography (Muslim headscarves, crosses, sikh turbans) in public areas.

As a society we have an obligation to make sure we have the freedom of choice to do whatever we want as long is it is of no detriment to others. The fact that noone is even sure what the gesture means does not mean it is inflammatory by default.

[Yorkykopite]

Dont know much about this guy, Wiki says he started as a far left activist ?! So how the hell did he end up doing Nazi salutes?!

Far left and far right share several things in common. Jew hatred tends to be one of them.

[Solomon Grundy]

Nobody is saying that Muslims are Nazis or that they all hate Jews. However, there are quite a few extremist muslim groups who are really anti-semitic because of Palestine (Israel). And they seem to have found unlikely allies in extremely right-wing European (French) groups who aren't too fond of people with another religion but hate nothing more than the Jews. It's not that uncommon an occurence.

This is the point I was trying to make. But yet again I seem to have made a right pigs ear of it. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[TheCharlatan]

His mate who said of a Jewish radio presenter "Too bad the gas chambers no longer exist."

Then there is this incident:
There are certain 'friends' for whom it is unacceptable to show public support.

If a radical Islamist footballer (as far as I know, none exist) were to celebrate a goal in the Premier League by doing a hook-hand celebration as a show of solidarity with his buddy Abu Hamza, would that be ok because it's his mate?

It is ludicrous to make that comparison. Abu Hamza is a convicted felon and openly supports Al-Qaeda. The other is a comedian who exercises his right to free speech and makes an ambiguous gesture that a few people decide offends 14 million people.

It doesn't matter whether you agree with him or not, one of the main determinants of a democratic society is the right to free speech. I think this quote by George Washington sums this situation up perfectly: "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

[Xxavi]

Regarding muslims hating jews, why talk as if jews love muslims? The hate is mutual in most of the both groups.

[End Product]

This is a win win situation for the daily mail.

[۩ Imperator ۩]

The gesture in question is not synonymous with his friend, it symbolises an ideal

I've heard that it's inherently anti-establishment, but I've also heard that it is fascist/anti-semtie.

These are ominous times if we have to start worrying about the position of our limbs and who it offends. France a "bastion of free speech and democracy" has recently also started banning the wearing of any religious apparel/iconography (Muslim headscarves, crosses, sikh turbans) in public areas.

As a society we have an obligation to make sure we have the freedom of choice to do whatever we want as long is it is of no detriment to others. The fact that noone is even sure what the gesture means does not mean it is inflammatory by default.

Um, yes it is synonymous with him. He invented the thing. The only people who claim to be unsure of what it represents are those who defend it. Such as yourself. It is pretty clear to anyone else.

[steampie]

These are ominous times if we have to start worrying about the position of our limbs and who it offends. France a "bastion of free speech and democracy" has recently also started banning the wearing of any religious apparel/iconography (Muslim headscarves, crosses, sikh turbans) in public areas.

As a society we have an obligation to make sure we have the freedom of choice to do whatever we want as long is it is of no detriment to others. The fact that noone is even sure what the gesture means does not mean it is inflammatory by default.

Sorry mate but that is not only ridiculous oversimplification but it's also blatantly wrong.

"worrying about the position of our limbs?" Come on now. It's very clear that Anelka's mate knows and celebrates what the gesture means, and as his close friend  Anelka can't argue ignorance. I'm not arguing for everyone to have the vapors whenever someone does any kind of hand gesture, but a hate-filled one that is unambiguously so doesn't need to be swept under the rug. The FA is not a government enterprise and as such can stand up to ACTUAL gestures that imply nothing but hate.

I expect and hope a lengthy ban for this.

[۩ Imperator ۩]

It is ludicrous to make that comparison. Abu Hamza is a convicted felon and openly supports Al-Qaeda. The other is a comedian who exercises his right to free speech and makes an ambiguous gesture that a few people decide offends 14 million people.

It doesn't matter whether you agree with him or not, one of the main determinants of a democratic society is the right to free speech. I think this quote by George Washington sums this situation up perfectly: "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

He is also a convicted criminal. Just for info.

[Lucas DuoFlush]

Far left and far right share several things in common. Jew hatred tends to be one of them.

Not really, and its offensive to suggest so. A hatred of foreigners is integral to far-right thought. It is not to the far left. There are of course SOME far leftists that are anti-semitic but generally its not the case.

[Fiasco]

This is a win win situation for the daily mail.

Haha, was thinking that myself mate.

[Yorkykopite]

Um, yes it is synonymous with him. He invented the thing. The only people who claim to be unsure of what it represents are those who defend it. Such as yourself. It is pretty clear to anyone else.

Good post. Unarguable really.

The salute is a Nazi salute, invented by someone too afraid to give the original version. This one has all the same connotations, particularly its anti-Semitic ones. It is also associated with Holocaust Denial. Any footballer doing it in England deserves to be met with the contempt of us all, and severe penalties imposed on him by his own union and the Premier League. 

[۩ Imperator ۩]

Good post. Unarguable really.

The salute is a Nazi salute, invented by someone too afraid to give the original version. This one has all the same connotations, particularly its anti-Semitic ones. It is also associated with Holocaust Denial. Any footballer doing it in England deserves to be met with the contempt of us all, and severe penalties imposed on him by his own union and the Premier League. 

It is refreshing to be on the same side of an argument as you, Yorky!

[ManchesterBlue]

As a society we have an obligation to make sure we have the freedom of choice to do whatever we want as long is it is of no detriment to others. The fact that noone is even sure what the gesture means does not mean it is inflammatory by default.

Isn't encouraging blind hatred of a group of people who have an accident of birth in common, to their detriment then?

[steampie]

I think this quote by George Washington sums this situation up perfectly: "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Another tedious argument. There's a reason why it's illegal to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre.
And there are lines between some farcical blanket allowance for anyone to say anything and certain things being prohibited.

But it's neither here nor there. As I mentioned above, the FA is clearly beholden to no one (as we know too well), and they are free to set their own rules. So with that I would hope that they would punish any rich privileged fuck who decides to air his clearly anti-Semitic views to millions.

[SadRed]

Far left and far right share several things in common. Jew hatred tends to be one of them.

Far left hates Jews? Thats new for me. Unless someone equates criticising Israel and anti-zionism as anti-semitism. I usually think of people hating jews to be either far right racist/white supermacist kind of people or far right islamists/radical muslims.

[TheCharlatan]

Suddenly everyone is an expert on the matter here are the following facts:

1.) Noone actually knows what it means, there are three different opinions on this page which testifies to this fact
2.) The gesture is used by many people in many differing ways, it is all about context and Anelka has never shown any inclination towards anti-semitism
3.) The"shouting fire" argument refers to freedom of speech with the exception of a detriment of others (which I specified in an earlier post if you bothered to read) As far as we know, this gesture is of no detriment to anyone
4.) Anelka's mate was never convicted of any felony, he was fined several times for his stupid hate speech whereas Abu Hamza supports terrorism.

[۩ Imperator ۩]

Far left hates Jews? Thats new for me. Unless someone equates criticising Israel and anti-zionism as anti-semitism.

And this is a very important distinction to make. Israel's foreign and domestic policy is loathsome to many, and Zionism is to Judaism what Islamism is to Islam. Criticism of Israel and Zionist politics are absolutely defensible positions. Public support of Holocaust deniers, neo-Nazi groups, and vile hate speech against Jews (all of which Dieudonné is guilty of) are not defensible, and it is regrettable that Nicolas Anelka and one or two users of this website think they are.