Author Topic: Babel: I'm not finished here  (Read 149698 times)

Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1360 on: December 8, 2010, 10:42:14 pm »

Offline ACE1

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1361 on: December 9, 2010, 09:05:18 am »
I think aswell stick with Babel. HE WILL COME GOOD

Offline rafa4eva

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1362 on: December 9, 2010, 05:55:40 pm »
Totally disagree, i think the problem babel has had is he is a Striker being played out of position and doesn't have the skills required to play on the wings. Yes he is strong and fast but he isn't creative or very good at passing, he also can't dribble or hold the ball up very well. If we look at his strengths you'll find he is more suited to the striker role, he is strong, quick, a very good striker of the ball and is good at making space for himself in the box to take shots. Positioning and other attributes of a striker will come when he plays there more often.

I really feel we should give him a chance to play as a striker before we spend any money on one, if he fails so be it sell him but i doubt he will. Furthermore you can see he really wants to do well as a striker, I remember he play as a lone striker against Chelsea and did well. I for one am really happy Roy is giving him a chance but I can see his chances being limited except Gerrard is moved to the right.

Hmmm, fair points BUT hes had 3 years to improve or at least progress, the question for me is whether he his doing anything above and beyond what he naturally did when he came to LFC? IMO, I dont see it, hes still making similar runs, his passing def hasnt improved as such, his touch and thinking off and on the ball seems to be the same as it was in his first few seasons....hes naturally got skills no doubt, he shows that on and off, I guess my concern is that he is not able to become more consistent, he has a good game every now and then ( admittedly hes not been given lots of games, but when he has had 2-3 games on the trot and he starts in the game,  he vanishes more often than not ) , he is capable of scoring smashing goals, yet he still has a horrible habit of disappearing in games when he things aren't going his way....As I said, I think he has similar attributes to Henry cant rate the guy much higher, I just struggle after 3 years to see him making any visible steps forward in realising this potential, so again IMO for us as a club moving him on and getting someone who can make more of a consistent impact may be the right thing to do for him and us....

Offline Fuzion6

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1363 on: December 9, 2010, 06:54:06 pm »
Come on Roy - start the lad again on saturday!!

Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1364 on: December 9, 2010, 07:16:48 pm »
Hmmm, fair points BUT hes had 3 years to improve or at least progress, the question for me is whether he his doing anything above and beyond what he naturally did when he came to LFC? IMO, I dont see it, hes still making similar runs, his passing def hasnt improved as such, his touch and thinking off and on the ball seems to be the same as it was in his first few seasons....hes naturally got skills no doubt, he shows that on and off, I guess my concern is that he is not able to become more consistent, he has a good game every now and then ( admittedly hes not been given lots of games, but when he has had 2-3 games on the trot and he starts in the game,  he vanishes more often than not ) , he is capable of scoring smashing goals, yet he still has a horrible habit of disappearing in games when he things aren't going his way....As I said, I think he has similar attributes to Henry cant rate the guy much higher, I just struggle after 3 years to see him making any visible steps forward in realising this potential, so again IMO for us as a club moving him on and getting someone who can make more of a consistent impact may be the right thing to do for him and us....
I think you just proved my point with Henry comparism a bit, Henry was a shite winger but became a deadly striker, where I do fault Babel is that I don't think he has tried his best to play in the wide role. Then again its same as sticking Meireles on the wing, not all players can play well out of position I just feel Babel needs to be closer to the goal. If there's one thing I think he has over Ngog its the hunger to score a goal, maybe Ngog is still coming into his own and when he plays with Torres feels he has to be a foil for him rather than try to get a goal for himself but against Villa you could see he wanted a goal. Babel I think has confidence in his ability as a striker and if he continued playing upfront I think he'd want to do better than Torres and I think that's a good thing he definitely has the qualities to become a top striker.

I also wonder why people compare him to Henry, I think they are very different to me he is more like Eto'o than Henry

Offline redjed1

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1365 on: December 9, 2010, 07:22:39 pm »
Roy plays with 2 up front, so it's Nando + 1.

Ngog had a really good game against Villa, so can't see how Roy will drop him.

Looks like the bench for Ryan again.

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1366 on: December 9, 2010, 07:33:52 pm »
Come on Roy - start the lad again on saturday!!
He should definitely start on Saturday. Even if he is not going to stay, another couple of goals on the bounce will take his value in the window back up to the 10m plus.

He's one of those players that some manager will think he can do something with.

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1367 on: December 9, 2010, 07:36:58 pm »
Roy plays with 2 up front, so it's Nando + 1.

Ngog had a really good game against Villa, so can't see how Roy will drop him.

Looks like the bench for Ryan again.
Hope not. Ngog has had plenty of football and can have another start on Thursday. Let's try and use Babel's confidence while it's there and if need be bump his value.

Offline redtiler

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1368 on: December 9, 2010, 07:47:21 pm »
It might be an idea for RH to start Babel and Ngog  alternately, with either being on the bench respsctively.
We've got ten games before the end of the transfer window, so give Ryan the chance to see if he can form a partnership with Nando in a striking role, and take it from there.
David Ngog is nailed on for the future if he carries on learning (which he is IMO)

Offline rafa4eva

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1369 on: December 11, 2010, 01:12:20 pm »
I think you just proved my point with Henry comparism a bit, Henry was a shite winger but became a deadly striker, where I do fault Babel is that I don't think he has tried his best to play in the wide role. Then again its same as sticking Meireles on the wing, not all players can play well out of position I just feel Babel needs to be closer to the goal. If there's one thing I think he has over Ngog its the hunger to score a goal, maybe Ngog is still coming into his own and when he plays with Torres feels he has to be a foil for him rather than try to get a goal for himself but against Villa you could see he wanted a goal. Babel I think has confidence in his ability as a striker and if he continued playing upfront I think he'd want to do better than Torres and I think that's a good thing he definitely has the qualities to become a top striker.

I also wonder why people compare him to Henry, I think they are very different to me he is more like Eto'o than Henry

Henry became a great forward IMO and spending time playing on the wing IMO helped him as part of his development, n the end he could lead the attack, he could play either wing, he could drop back, he had vision, intelligence, great touch and great passing and he could play anywhere in the front 3 dependent on the front 3 not being fixed in position. Now we obviously feel differently about Babel, but pushing Merieles out right and Babel playing top left or right are completely different propositions IMO and moving Merieles out wide was a shocking decision....However, Babel usually was part of a team of 3, Babel, Kyut and Torres leading with Gerrard behind them....I dont think he was given a specific role to play, similar to what Kyut tries (!) to do on the right, its much more than run and cross the ball from the wing ala a traditional winger IMO, its link play, hold it, pass it, attack, cross,shoot etc a lot more is and was expected from Babel and I think he is struggling to deliver consistency or even showing improved game skills or intelligence...

I think Babel has the natural attributes of Henry and I thought he was following a similar path to Henry in the hope he would became a complete forward, but you got me thinking and maybe he is actually more similar to an Owen in terms of his approach to play. Just to test my thoughts, Owen had a few things in his locker but he was never a complete footballer, Owen had pace, positioning and a sweet finish but passing, link up play etc were not his strengthsr. At the moment, Babel seems to show similar strengths to Owen and after 3 years the worrying thing for me is that he is not developing his game, but now that Roy seems to be turning LFC  back into a counter attacking side rather than a possession based side maybe Babel might find himself in a similar role to Owen and could thrive...

As for the Eto point imo hes better than Henry, then again I havent seen Henry play for a few years now but I feel Eto's ball control, work rate, skill, vision, his ability to be direct and also use of the ball, intelligence and general attitude is very impressive, Henry is great dont get me wrong but Eto is better I would like to add this is up there with Cindy Crawford is better looking then Angelina Jolie, both are fit and I would not be showing either of them the door I might add !

As for Babel being closer to Eto, physically he is closer to Henry and the way he approaches games at least in my head and I think Eto is a far cleverer player and part of me thinks maybe keeping things more simple rather than complex works best for Babel and maybe he could or might thrive in a more direct, counter attacking side as you have made me think maybe an Owen type role might be more of a natural fit for him. Maybe the best way to put it, is that looking at how he plays and how he has improved over the last 3 years, im not sure Im helping thinking he could become a Henry type player if he starts to show signs in the future then great but maybe Roys new vision for LFC might help Babel, even if this new vision personally causes me concerns...

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1370 on: December 11, 2010, 01:16:43 pm »
Babel will be finished if he is not given chances from the start even when he is playing well.
We dont know what is going behind the scenes-as in training and the effort that he puts in etc.
But it would really be harsh to leave him out when in that same period,someone like Kuyt hasnt been at his best.Of course Kuyt has done more to the club and has been really vital,but at the moment,on the basis of form,Babel nicks it.

Offline Jay012345

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1371 on: December 11, 2010, 01:23:11 pm »
Let him go to sort his career out. He'll be better off going to a mid-table team here or holland or spain where he can play as a stiker regularly. If he fullfills his potential, a big club will come calling soon enough.

Offline theblackhumor

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1372 on: December 11, 2010, 01:39:33 pm »
If he becomes half of what Henry was at his prime for Arsenal, we'll still have a great player on our hands. However, like many have said....ENIGMA!

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1373 on: December 11, 2010, 06:53:23 pm »
Impressed with Babel recently too, some better form and he is always so happy to score.
He wants to be a red and turned down several moves away from Anfield so gotta give him due credit.
Hope he can be our super sub and even start up top with Ngog or Torres when needed.
I think his pace and unpredictability make him a dangerous asset if rather inconsistent.

But I was surprised at how improved his touch seemed to be against Villa. Hopefully he can give
us some extra attacking threat that we were missing the first 8 games of the season.
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Offline rowan_d

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1374 on: December 11, 2010, 07:45:10 pm »
Threatened with his pace and dribbling. Should have started.

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1375 on: December 11, 2010, 07:46:24 pm »
He was a real threat when he came on, i'd have started him for sure.
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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1376 on: December 11, 2010, 07:49:13 pm »
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Would definitely have taken him over what Nando served up today.
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Offline Yakyb

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1377 on: December 11, 2010, 07:49:55 pm »
Threatened with his pace and dribbling. Should have started.

i am a huge fan of torres but Babel did about the same in his 20 min as torres did in his 90


would love to see them start together.

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1378 on: December 11, 2010, 07:51:01 pm »
Was super.Beat players.
Same old story.Will fire for 15 days.Wont get a start.And go into his shell.

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1379 on: December 11, 2010, 07:52:50 pm »
Again Babel should've started.

If the lad leaves because he's playing second fiddle to an undroppable Torres, even when playing shite.
I'll go to his home and help him pack his bags myself.
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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1380 on: December 11, 2010, 07:53:07 pm »
He did more than every attacker bar N'Gog and Kuyt (but minus the goal, and you could stick him in there too) in his 15minutes today.

Needs to start games. Defenders are clearly confident facing the likes of Maxi and Kuyt and as weeks go on, Torres. N'Gog and Babel are the only 2 that seem to actually inject that disorder into a defence anymore.

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Offline L7S

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1381 on: December 11, 2010, 07:55:39 pm »
Deserved to start today.

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1382 on: December 11, 2010, 07:55:44 pm »
showed in his last three games he deserves a decent run in the team

Offline gallden

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1383 on: December 11, 2010, 08:32:44 pm »
Let him go to sort his career out. He'll be better off going to a mid-table team here or holland or spain where he can play as a stiker regularly. If he fullfills his potential, a big club will come calling soon enough.
He's at a mid table team.

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1384 on: December 11, 2010, 08:36:44 pm »
Feel sorry for him. Unfortunatly I missed the match (read here and live match updates), but I think Roy should have gone for Babel and Torres. Whta does Babel have to do to get a regular start? Just wish we had a manager that had faith in our players.
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Offline G Richards

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1385 on: December 11, 2010, 08:48:01 pm »
I'd have started Babel and N'gog today. They did well last time. Torres to come on as sub and show some hunger to get back in the side. (Obviously the Torres we saw against Chelsea is superb, but too often of late he is not showing the requisite hunger to my eyes, so a little time on the bench might do him some good).

Another option is to see what Babel and Torres looks like. I will be gutted if one or the other moves on and we didn't even get to see what it could be like.

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1386 on: December 11, 2010, 08:54:00 pm »
A shame he didn't started up front against Campbell. The result wouldn't have much different though I suppose. We were all over the place defensively and that's against a team who barley had any possession against West Brom last weekend. 

Offline Fuzion6

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1387 on: December 11, 2010, 11:30:22 pm »
Nice cameo. Really should be starting going forward. Seems to be ahead of Cole in the pecking order.

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1388 on: December 12, 2010, 12:10:29 am »
Should have started. But we know unless there are injuries Ryan will have his usual seat on the bench. Shame really cos up front with Torres he'd do damage as 3 or 4 players instantly close him down when he gets the ball, which creates space.
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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1389 on: December 12, 2010, 12:15:03 am »
Hes done well everytime he comes on......
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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1390 on: December 12, 2010, 12:22:19 am »
Should have started. But we know unless there are injuries Ryan will have his usual seat on the bench. Shame really cos up front with Torres he'd do damage as 3 or 4 players instantly close him down when he gets the ball, which creates space.

Should of started with ngog
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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1391 on: December 12, 2010, 12:24:22 am »
Should of started with ngog

Id drop Torres to be honest, not knee jerk reaction to today but he isnt looking good right now. I'd like to see if he seems a bit more himself if he was sent on as a sub after 60 minutes, by which time Babel and N'gog would have tired the opposition defence.
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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1392 on: December 12, 2010, 12:28:50 am »
Id drop Torres to be honest, not knee jerk reaction to today but he isnt looking good right now. I'd like to see if he seems a bit more himself if he was sent on as a sub after 60 minutes, by which time Babel and Ngog would have tired the opposition defence.

Same here mate.
I was banging on about it in the pre match thread and got told it was madness.
Thing that gets me is I constantly here how good our squad is yet the fans are reluctant to explore other options never mind Roy
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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1393 on: December 12, 2010, 12:30:55 am »
Same here mate.
I was banging on about it in the pre match thread and got told it was madness.
Thing that gets me is I constantly here how good our squad is yet the fans are reluctant to explore other options never mind Roy

Roy has an 11 in his mind, and he will pick that same 11 every single week unless injuries and suspensions say otherwise. I really dont think form comes into it for one moment.
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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1394 on: December 12, 2010, 12:38:52 am »
Roy has an 11 in his mind, and he will pick that same 11 every single week unless injuries and suspensions say otherwise. I really dont think form comes into it for one moment.

It's not just him though when was the last time torres had any sort of real competition for his place?

Also if he was dropped and it went tits up there would be hell on.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 12:41:38 am by Tomo! »
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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1395 on: December 12, 2010, 12:46:42 am »
It's not just him though when was the last time torres had any sort of real competition for his place?

Also if he was dropped and it went tits up there would be hell on.

He's never had any 'real competition' because last few seasons he was the best striker in world football arguably. The only way we could have given him competition is if we bough Villa, Drogba an Rooney.

Roy shouldnt give a shit if it went tits up though because nowadays if Torres plays its not gonna go smoothly and the way it should go.
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Offline penga

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1396 on: December 12, 2010, 01:12:02 am »
Babel needs to be able to play RW if he wants more minutes. I believe he has the ability to do so but hasn't really played there much in his career.

I've seen him play with smart players like Aquilani, Gerrard and he can link up well, has a decent cross and can run fast down the line.

Babel fo Kuyt imo.

Wouldn't mind seeing this next week:

Johnson Soto Skrtel Aurelio
Meireles Lucas Maxi
Babel Ngog Torres
(highly unlikely)
or
Johnson Soto Skrtel Aurelio
Babel Meireles Lucas Maxi
Torres Ngog
(more likely but still unlikely :()
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 01:15:03 am by penga »

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1397 on: December 12, 2010, 02:01:28 am »
Please sell him

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1398 on: December 12, 2010, 02:17:09 am »
Drop Torres and play babel and ngog

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Re: Babel: I'm not finished here
« Reply #1399 on: December 12, 2010, 02:46:35 am »
Please sell him
I love Ryan to bits but you're right it has to be the best move for the player. Or we have a manager that has some balls and drops one of the unthinkable. I'm not basing that on form, it seems no matter how well he does and even though 'he's taken his chance' still dropped.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 03:23:03 am by gallden »