Topic: Electric cars

[[new username under construction]]

Also, whats going to be the environmental damage to fit chargers all over the UK, from start to finish of the entire cycle from manufacture to fitting. Also, its 2 million litres of water to mine a ton of lithium, whats the long term damage this is causing to Peru

I would think it's just a matter of time until Lithium isn't used any more in batteries

[TepidT2O]

I would think it's just a matter of time until Lithium isn't used any more in batteries

And what would you use instead?

A lithium/ lithium ion half cell has a standard electrode potential of -3.04V!!!!!

And at such low density!

[[new username under construction]]

And what would you use instead?

A lithium/ lithium ion half cell has a standard electrode potential of -3.04V!!!!!

And at such low density!

Magnesium?

[TepidT2O]

Magnesium?

More dense and a standard electrode potential of only -2.37

[[new username under construction]]

More dense and a standard electrode potential of only -2.37

But cleaner and a possibility isn't it? I mean even if we don't think it up, Ai probably will! A matter of time.............and of course who makes the money

[TepidT2O]

But cleaner and a possibility isn't it? I mean even if we don't think it up, Ai probably will! A matter of time.............and of course who makes the money

Far heavier batteries with a shorter range..

[[new username under construction]]

Far heavier batteries with a shorter range..

I'm sure they will come up with alternatives but if that was the choice then so be it....surely you'd sacrifice range and weight for environment?

[BER]

Looks like they're getting there.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-claims-battery-breakthrough-electric-cars

[TepidT2O]

Looks like they're getting there.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-claims-battery-breakthrough-electric-cars

Would be game changing ….I’d like to see the chemistry involved

[thejbs]

Would be better making a battery with 350 mile range and 5min charging. That would be almost the equivalent of current ICE cars. Plus they’d be lighter so less air pollution. There’s no need for 750 mile range if you can charge so quickly.

[ScouserAtHeart]

There’s no need for 750 mile range if you can charge so quickly.

You'd need fewer charging stations though

[[new username under construction]]

Would be better making a battery with 350 mile range and 5min charging. That would be almost the equivalent of current ICE cars. Plus they’d be lighter so less air pollution. There’s no need for 750 mile range if you can charge so quickly.

No one wants to refuel or charge though, I hate recharge places, I do all mine at home. Plus of course we're not the norm, everyone else needs 750 miles where as we live on a pebble

[thejbs]

You'd need fewer charging stations though

True, but you’d need fewer anyway as many homeowners will mostly charge at home where they can get cheaper electric or benefit from domestic renewables. 750 miles is for the headline. There is greater benefit in having shorter range and lighter EVs - less damage to roads, safer for pedestrians, less air pollution from tyres, less wear on tyres, less redundant range. Currently, filling a car takes 2-3 minutes for 350-550 miles of range.

[stewil007]

I agree we need to do something, we need to get away from mass ICE, but I'm not convinced electric is the answer.

Charging isn't even good now, there is no way we will be anywhere near ready in 2030 for the ban on sales of ICE cars. I took this in October at Gretna Services, Teslas queueing just to use the chargers, at Christmas it was over 2 hours at South Mimms just to get on a charger.

Also, whats going to be the environmental damage to fit chargers all over the UK, from start to finish of the entire cycle from manufacture to fitting. Also, its 2 million litres of water to mine a ton of lithium, whats the long term damage this is causing to Peru

Regardless of whatever technology is the future, there is going to be environmental impact, you simply cant get away from it, the way some people talk its as though removing oil and gas from the ground was carbon neutral and no-one is allowed to bring that up.

Theres always going to be instances of people queuing for fuel - not so long ago how long were people queuing at petrol stations? 

waiting 2 hours at a tesla site isn't the norm, i've had an EV for 3 years and the longest i've had to wait for a free charger is about 15 mins, 99% of the time i'm straight in because on my display ( for Tesla sites) it tells me how many chargers are available to use.  So if its says none, i avoid that charging station and go to the next.

I know some people will always be 'never EV' and thats fine but the arguments against them are getting fewer and fewer and that seems to make them worse.  Not much we can do about that.

[MBL?]

Everybody’s situation is different but there is no way I would go back to an ice car. If anything I find it easier charging than having to fill up a tank every week. Ive only needed to use public chargers about 5 times in a year and it was a breeze with no waiting. No range anxiety after the first drive where I picked it up with about 40% and it was off by only 1% in its prediction to a charger about 100km away.

No way would I buy one that doesn’t predict battery at your destination though. That would just be a bad time altogether.

[thejbs]

I’m currently not an EV driver, but my next car will almost certainly be one now that real-world ranges will allow me to do my job on a full charge. The technology will start to move exponentially, making the argument for an ICE car purely emotional.

[BER]

Would be better making a battery with 350 mile range and 5min charging. That would be almost the equivalent of current ICE cars. Plus they’d be lighter so less air pollution. There’s no need for 750 mile range if you can charge so quickly.

Why couldn't they do both?

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Question for anyone with an EV as I think I'll be making the switch soon.

I drive around 1500 miles a month - how much would that roughly cost in electricity if all the charging was done at home? Just trying to work out exactly how much of a saving I'll make. I probably spend around £240 in petrol as it equates to about three full tanks.

[stewil007]

Question for anyone with an EV as I think I'll be making the switch soon.

I drive around 1500 miles a month - how much would that roughly cost in electricity if all the charging was done at home? Just trying to work out exactly how much of a saving I'll make. I probably spend around £240 in petrol as it equates to about three full tanks.

I have a Tesla with a 78kwh battery and home charging is 7.5p/kw over night.......range of the car is around 320, but real world probably 290.  During cold months the real world range does drop to around 260 miles, so that would need to be factored in.

It usually costs me between £5 and £6 for a full charge....so on your example that would be around £30 - £40 for 1500 miles.

If you can try and get an EV tairff - i'm on Octopus's Intelligent tariff.

Also, not just the charging but you'll potentially be saving on servicing and changing parts.....due to less moving parts etc.

[Graeme]

Do EV's not rip through tyres due to the weight of the car?

[thejbs]

Why couldn't they do both?

They can and will. But we need lighter, less polluting cars on the road, so a 350mile version is preferable. How many drivers would need >700mile range for a day, really?

[stewil007]

Do EV's not rip through tyres due to the weight of the car?

ive done 49k and am on my second set of tyres with still plenty of wear on this set.  Haven't noticed them deteriating much faster than any others to be honest

[stewil007]

They can and will. But we need lighter, less polluting cars on the road, so a 350mile version is preferable. How many drivers would need >700mile range for a day, really?

If i had a 750 mile range car then i would only need to charge once a week, which i could do cheaply at home.  currently i drive about 200 miles on a monday to get to where i work, drive another 50 miles during the week, then have to charge my car again for the journey back home.  Tesla chargers have progressive tariffs ie if you charge during the day, its more expensive (46p) than charging after 8pm (31p)  or after midnight (21p)  But this is better than charging at service stations where the current Gridserve chargers are about 79p all the time.  Outside of service stations the non tesla chargers seem to be around the 65p mark.

my simple maths means that home charging on a 750 mile vehicle would cost me about £12-£15 a week.  A 350 mile vehicle and having to use network chargers would cost me about above £30 a week.

[thejbs]

If i had a 750 mile range car then i would only need to charge once a week, which i could do cheaply at home.  currently i drive about 200 miles on a monday to get to where i work, drive another 50 miles during the week, then have to charge my car again for the journey back home.  Tesla chargers have progressive tariffs ie if you charge during the day, its more expensive (46p) than charging after 8pm (31p)  or after midnight (21p)  But this is better than charging at service stations where the current Gridserve chargers are about 79p all the time.  Outside of service stations the non tesla chargers seem to be around the 65p mark.

my simple maths means that home charging on a 750 mile vehicle would cost me about £12-£15 a week.  A 350 mile vehicle and having to use network chargers would cost me about above £30 a week.

You’re an outlier, though. And basing it on current infrastructure rather than what exists 5 years from now. But, as I said, high milers will likely exist (for a price).

The average uk motorist drives 142 miles a week. 75% of the uk has access to a private parking space too. Having the road filled with heavy 750 milers is unnecessary and bad for air and noise pollution and puts greater strain on roads. For most drivers, EV range anxiety is better called range irrationality.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I have a Tesla with a 78kwh battery and home charging is 7.5p/kw over night.......range of the car is around 320, but real world probably 290.  During cold months the real world range does drop to around 260 miles, so that would need to be factored in.

It usually costs me between £5 and £6 for a full charge....so on your example that would be around £30 - £40 for 1500 miles.

If you can try and get an EV tairff - i'm on Octopus's Intelligent tariff.

Also, not just the charging but you'll potentially be saving on servicing and changing parts.....due to less moving parts etc.

Appreciate that, thank you! A big saving really.

[stewil007]

You’re an outlier, though. And basing it on current infrastructure rather than what exists 5 years from now. But, as I said, high milers will likely exist (for a price).

The average uk motorist drives 142 miles a week. 75% of the uk has access to a private parking space too. Having the road filled with heavy 750 milers is unnecessary and bad for air and noise pollution and puts greater strain on roads. For most drivers, EV range anxiety is better called range irrationality.

I agree with everything you've said, but like with most things having the option of different vehicles is key for the success or failure of the technology.

For me, the range anxiety took me about 6 months to get over, i'd always overcharge, plan multiple routes to the same destinations to ensure if i was diverted i knew what i needed in the car, that sort of thing - but the network is getting better, i mean McNasty's have a few chargers in theri car parks these days, they are popping up everywhere.

If the network can advertise itself like the Tesla network does ie. available/taken chargers, then that would be a step change for confidence

[stewil007]

Appreciate that, thank you! A big saving really.

I'm lucky as i get 11p/mile for my work, so the more i can charge at home the more i make out of the business rates.

[MBL?]

Some people do it I know but I really wouldn’t recommend getting an ev if you don’t have off street parking and can install a charger.

[thejbs]

I really should get one. I have access to free charging 4-5 hours a week.

[[new username under construction]]

I really should get one. I have access to free charging 4-5 hours a week.

[thejbs]

Cost is the issue. It would have to have 300 mile range minimum and be as fancy/comfortable as my q3. Most options that fit the bill are 50k plus so I can’t justify that.

[[new username under construction]]

Cost is the issue.

Definitely the main problem at the moment, they are ripping off customers all over the shop! One of the supposedly most affordable cars, MG4 is still £360 a month

[[new username under construction]]

More bad news for ICE cars if we've just invented a room temperature superconductor!

[thejbs]

I’d not hold my breath until it’s peer reviewed. Have seen similar claims before. Would be incredible though.

[[new username under construction]]

I’d not hold my breath until it’s peer reviewed. Have seen similar claims before. Would be incredible though.

looking promising though, world changer that

[PaulF]

Do EV's not rip through tyres due to the weight of the car?

Didn't know they were significantly heavier.
Battery weighs a fair bit and I don't suppose the the motor is light. But an engine block is pretty heavy.  I suspect quite a bit of metal in other parts of the powertrain that don't exist in EVs bring them closer together too.

[PhilV]

I am quite keen on making the switch and the new Volvo one is really cool looks wise and the reviews seem good, the EX30

[thejbs]

Didn't know they were significantly heavier.
Battery weighs a fair bit and I don't suppose the the motor is light. But an engine block is pretty heavy.  I suspect quite a bit of metal in other parts of the powertrain that don't exist in EVs bring them closer together too.

New BMW iX is around 1500kg but the EV version is 2085kg. The i4 is 650kg heavier than the petrol 4 series. The q4 is around 700kg heavier than a q3.

Generally, you'd expect an EV to be at least 25-30% heavier than an equivalent ICE model.

[Jake]

I bought a leccy car earlier this year, the MG ZS EV

Its fucking dogshit. Glued together by orphans, nothing inside it works.

200 mile range apparently. Except if you want to drive on the motorway, or in temperatures below 15 degrees. Or with the radio/AC on. Or use any of the safety features or cruise control.

Its such a regret, a 27k stone around my neck. Wish I'd not bothered.

[Ben S]

To be fair, if you had bought an MG ZS petrol it would also be shit. Buy a cheap shitbox and that's what it's going to be,  nothing to do with it being a BEV.