Topic: Legalisation of All Drugs

[SlowRap]

Shrooms are amazing and in the days after a session it feels like you have taken a power washer to your brain.

They are also better than the hair of the dog.

that explains a lot of your posts

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

Shrooms are less harmful than Alcohol for sure. As are Cannabis and Kratom.  No logical reason why alcohol is legal and those are not.

[Devon Red]

This is an interesting study with data taken from a number of sources and realistic discussion of the limitations; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311234/

Bottom line seems to be that governments have historically massively over-estimated the harm of cannabis while underestimating the harm of alcohol. I've struggled to find any studies that really challenge this conclusion. Public policy just needs to catch up with the science.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

that explains a lot of your posts

 


No explaining the others though eh.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

That could be reversed.

The difficulty, and note of caution, is included within the article.

There is such a small sample size being drawn upon and importantly for proof of medical efficacy, no double blind test, and hence you really have to be cautious about such claims at the moment

Certainly it's perhaps encouraging, but it shouldn't be taken as proof yet, not until full medical trials under controlled conditions are performed.

I agree,the faster they run the tests and trial the better.

[cloggypop]

I’m extremely dubious about claims like this... they’re a bit daily mail for my liking..

Try some.

[TepidT2O]

Try some.

Really not for me.  For others?  Hey, up to them...

But the medicinal claims seem dubious (at best)

[Corkboy]

Reduction in social anxiety after MDMA-assisted psychotherapy with autistic adults: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled pilot study

This pilot trial demonstrated rapid and durable improvement in social anxiety symptoms in autistic adults following MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. Initial safety and efficacy outcomes support expansion of research into larger samples to further investigate this novel treatment for social anxiety.

[Peabee]

I’m extremely dubious about claims like this... they’re a bit daily mail for my liking..

Nah, it’s proper research that’s being carried out. Also, micro-dosing isn’t enough to get you tripping. Taking too much will obviously have negative effects like alcohol etc.

[Giono]

Shrooms are less harmful than Alcohol for sure. As are Cannabis and Kratom.  No logical reason why alcohol is legal and those are not.

It’s about $$$. In the 60s...people kept alcohol at work. You can be an slcoholic and it can not affect ypur work. In fact it can relueve the ills of a shitty work life. While pot doesn’t.

Business like their workers drunk in off hours and like getting their fluents drunk before sealing deals. They don’t want them stoned and have any unhelpful realisations...

[TepidT2O]

Nah, it’s proper research that’s being carried out. Also, micro-dosing isn’t enough to get you tripping. Taking too much will obviously have negative effects like alcohol etc.

It’s about quality of research though.  You need double blind trials, big sample sizes the works.  Until then it’s irresponsible to produce information like this.


This is a quality of science rant by the way folks.  If it worked, brilliant.

[The Gulleysucker]

I couldn't think of exactly where to put this, but since it's drugs related I thought it might go in here...

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/20/mdma-makes-octopuses-more-sociable

‘Have you got any pictures of octopuses holding glow sticks?’

[WhereAngelsPlay]

It’s about $$$. In the 60s...people kept alcohol at work. You can be an slcoholic and it can not affect ypur work. In fact it can relueve the ills of a shitty work life. While pot doesn’t.

Well that is bollocks.

A close friend of mine has suffered from depression for years now & the tablets only made him worse and in a state of mind that he couldn't find the will to do anything,he then did his back in and was put on very strong and highly addictive pain killers.

He was on those for 4yrs,pain & head meds that almost destroyed him,he had never smoked so wouldn't touch weed but he drank like a fish,I finally got him to try weed a couple of years ago,that weed sorted out both his head and his pain,he has since stopped drinking,stopped the pain meds and he literally threw his psych meds at the doctor who put him on them.

He now smokes an 8th a week,never more and never any less and is a totally different person and can finally be able to plan and look forward to waking up.

[Dull Tools]

What I can't understand is why people think alcohol should be legal but all other drugs shouldn't be.

[Corkboy]

[Il Capitano]

Truly what progress looks like.

[Corkboy]

Truly what progress looks like.

Hard to tell if you’re serious.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Canada has done the sensible thing

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-45883106

[Giono]

Canada has done the sensible thing

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-45883106

We'll see. Each province is handling things different. For example, British Columbia will only have one store. Quebec, who are into hash than weed and who have 2 huge gangs controlling supply traditionally have surprisingly few producers registered...could be down to people not wbting to get a knock on the door by the Italian mafia or the Hells Angels..

Some rules are getting much stricter.

Ontario (where Toronto and Ottawa are) will be interesting as distribution will be liberalised and not centralised. And heck the Provincial Premier is a former pot dealer himself.

[Corkboy]

It’s about quality of research though.  You need double blind trials, big sample sizes the works.  Until then it’s irresponsible to produce information like this.


This is a quality of science rant by the way folks.  If it worked, brilliant.

Psychedelic psilocybin therapy for depression granted Breakthrough Therapy status by FDA

In an extraordinary step forward for the psychedelic drug research community, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has just given psilocybin therapy for treatment-resistant depression a Breakthrough Therapy designation. This classification suggests the treatment has demonstrated significant potential in early clinical evidence, allowing the FDA to assist and expedite subsequent development and review processes.

[Giovanni]

It’s about $$$. In the 60s...people kept alcohol at work. You can be an slcoholic and it can not affect ypur work. In fact it can relueve the ills of a shitty work life. While pot doesn’t.

Business like their workers drunk in off hours and like getting their fluents drunk before sealing deals. They don’t want them stoned and have any unhelpful realisations...

64 words of complete and utter shite. Congratulations.

[Giono]

64 words of complete and utter shite. Congratulations.

Care to elaborate? I figure you can count.

Do you know who drove the temperance movement? It wasn't business. Alcohol has always been good business and good for business.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Care to elaborate? I figure you can count.

Do you know who drove the temperance movement? It wasn't business. Alcohol has always been good business and good for business.

Because millions of people smoke weed and it doesn't interfere with their working life unlike pissheads who go to work hungover.


So it was shite from start to finish.

Also what is an unhelpful realisation ?

[Giono]

Because millions of people smoke weed and it doesn't interfere with their working life unlike pissheads who go to work hungover.


So it was shite from start to finish.

Also what is an unhelpful realisation ?

Hungover, yes. Coffee and some hydration can smooth that bump.

But THC lingers too. And you can't compensate for that. Check out all the new restrictions that work places are putting on weed users in Canada. In Toronto, police are jot allowed to take marijuana 28 days prior to work8ng because that's how long it stays in the system. Airlines are forbidd8ng staff from ever using. But they have no issue with cops going to bars to take the edge off.

And an unhelpful realisation would be not wanting to go down that mineshaft with last nights pot making that pit a whole lot less attractive. Being hung over is not an issue.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

You literally couldn't be more clueless.

Have at it,you're a boring bubble of cliches.

[Giono]

You literally couldn't be more clueless.

Have at it,you're a boring bubble of cliches.

Sure thing. I don't even know who the hell you are and don't care. This is entertainment.

But you go wage internet war. You're a hero.

In fact, I think it would be better and spark up a fatty. You'd be better company.

[Corkboy]

And an unhelpful realisation would be not wanting to go down that mineshaft with last nights pot making that pit a whole lot less attractive. Being hung over is not an issue.

We are all a little more stupid after reading that.

[cloggypop]

Because millions of people smoke weed and it doesn't interfere with their working life unlike pissheads who go to work hungover.


So it was shite from start to finish.

Also what is an unhelpful realisation ?

I don't particularly like working with stoners these days and I smoked weed for years. Non stoners  tend to be more productive in my experience.

[FlashGordon]

Sure thing. I don't even know who the hell you are and don't care. This is entertainment.

But you go wage internet war. You're a hero.

In fact, I think it would be better and spark up a fatty. You'd be better company.

I drink and I smoke, I know countless others who do both. Ask anyone who does both and they will tell you there is no comparison between an actual hangover and the morning after smoking a bit of weed. Feel infinitely better after smoking a few joints and 100 percent more productive. Anyone saying otherwise is talking absolute bullshit.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

I drink and I smoke, I know countless others who do both. Ask anyone who does both and they will tell you there is no comparison between an actual hangover and the morning after smoking a bit of weed. Feel infinitely better after smoking a few joints and 100 percent more productive. Anyone saying otherwise is talking absolute bullshit.

There is no way I could work with a hangover (one of the reasons I no longer drink alcohol), no problem the morning after smoking a bit of weed.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I don't particularly like working with stoners these days and I smoked weed for years. Non stoners  tend to be more productive in my experience.

I bet you would be surprised how many people you work with smoke,comes down to how you define what a stoner is.

[cloggypop]

I bet you would be surprised how many people you work with smoke,comes down to how you define what a stoner is.

I've lived in the Netherlands since 1999. I've worked with some right loons and probably have a much better understanding of working with people in various states than you ever will. If you've never worked in Bakkers on spacecake Fridays you would never understand.

[kavah]

I can’t comment on the work enhancing or diminishing affects of weed but I was astonished this summer on holiday in Oregon at the number of dynamic young folk working in the weed industry there, marketing, accounting, growing, general management, a whole new sector has sprung up very quickly. It was very interesting to observe.
 

[The Gulleysucker]

I think it's possibly dangerous to generalise as there are so many variables involved, narcotic strength, individual reactions, if you've built up a tolerance and such.

I've known people in an office environment over the years that seem to function better when they've had a couple of drinks at lunchtime though equally some seem to become useless after just one shandy.

The same is true of weed smokers, some seem to be able to still function quite well after a single spliff, while others are reduced to giggles after just a few drags.

And cocaine use in the City? It's said the City from the late 80's through into the 90's was running on it and I expect parts still do.

There are just so many variables.

What I wouldn't recommend is that anyone under the casual influence of drink or certainly psychoactive drugs should ever be involved with operating power machinery.

From personal experience, musically it's also not a good thing for the rest of a band to have to put up with a member out of their skull when doing live performances or trying  to record anything against the clock. Their timing generally goes to shit though certainly for winding down and for creative purposes it can sometimes be fascinating and inspirational, or at least you usually think it is in your Coleridge moment, but productively it's rarely a good idea.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I've lived in the Netherlands since 1999. I've worked with some right loons and probably have a much better understanding of working with people in various states than you ever will. If you've never worked in Bakkers on spacecake Fridays you would never understand.

So you are able to know what I have experienced in my lifetime.

That's a special talent you have.

[cloggypop]

So you are able to know what I have experienced in my lifetime.

That's a special talent you have.

Of course not. I'm unlikely to be surprised that some people I work with may enjoy a spliff though. It's not exactly that rare or special.

[Giono]

I drink and I smoke, I know countless others who do both. Ask anyone who does both and they will tell you there is no comparison between an actual hangover and the morning after smoking a bit of weed. Feel infinitely better after smoking a few joints and 100 percent more productive. Anyone saying otherwise is talking absolute bullshit.

I disagree. I can drink and wake up and function fine. By the afternoon I need some hydration. But I can work fine.

But after smoking I sleep like a baby and wake up, not feeling like a type A personality.

It affects people differently. I had friends in university that would smoke before studying successfully...me...no way was I gettin a lot of studying done.

Anyone saying their personal experience as a user and abuser is the only truth is talking bullshit.

[Giono]

There is no way I could work with a hangover (one of the reasons I no longer drink alcohol), no problem the morning after smoking a bit of weed.

I can work with a hangover, but I am nowhere near as effective after a night smokin herb. Ine of the reasons I smoke infrequently with plenty of Canadian bud around and available.

I'll wake up after a party and clean the house post party first thing. It effects everyone differently.

That's why in Canada the cops have an arbitrary limit of THC allowed in the blood when you drive. There was no limit before, people drove stoned all the time. But the had to bring in an arbitrary limit in an effort to curb toking and driving. Until it gets tested in court. The defenc3 will be that jot everyone gets impaired at X level of THC.

[Corkboy]

Anyone saying their personal experience as a user and abuser is the only truth is talking bullshit.

That goes for you, too.

[Giono]

That goes for you, too.

I was claiming that business interests support alcohol more than weed. That has been the history. The present and future may be different as the nature of work is changing. I am Canadian and I see the nature of the Canadian economy has changed in advance of a change in the cultural acceptance of weed and its legalisation.

That was my point. Not that my personal experience is better than anyone's. I've got friends that spark first thing in the morning for 20 years and are productive. I've got others that won't leave the house the whole weekend.

So weed is legal in Canada now, but the restrictions, especially around work and workplace have increased. It is not the shangrila that toking Canadians had hoped. Why, because business wants rules and restrictions for what people do in their own time when it comes to weed that they don't demand for booze. No hash brownies at lunch, but some expensive wine at lunch helps seal the deal.