Topic: Liverpool vs Manchester United, 17 January 2021, 4:30 PM

[buttersstotch]

Maybe this is the game similar to City away where we tweak our formation slightly and go with a 3-5-2 - Gini, Williams, Fabino - Trent, Thiago, Milner, Henderson, Robertson - Mane, Salah

Then it allows us to flex in game with the formation too potentially..

Also imo regardless of who we play at CB we are going to concede changes and opportunities to them. I watched the highlights of the 2-0 last season and exactly the same happened then too. I think we just have to accept that they will get chances, but so will we.

[Dr. Beaker]

Keep up, the ICC banned runners years ago!

Blimey. No one tells me nothing!

[Suareznumber7]

Maybe this is the game similar to City away where we tweak our formation slightly and go with a 3-5-2 - Gini, Williams, Fabino - Trent, Thiago, Milner, Henderson, Robertson - Mane, Salah

Then it allows us to flex in game with the formation too potentially..

Also imo regardless of who we play at CB we are going to concede changes and opportunities to them. I watched the highlights of the 2-0 last season and exactly the same happened then too. I think we just have to accept that they will get chances, but so will we.

I think that's unlikely.  Curious what the tactical reason you think we'd do that would be?

I think it'll be pretty straightforward for us.

Alison
TAA - Hendo(Matip if fit)-Fab-Robbo
Thiago
Curtis(Hendo if Matip fit) - Gini
Mo-Firmino-Salah

[Klopp Your Hands]

I think we need our best midfielders in midfield, not playing as CB.
If we control the midfield, our defence won't be exposed too much.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I think we need our best midfielders in midfield, not playing as CB.
If we control the midfield, our defence won't be exposed too much.

You can't go an entire match without the other side not having some spell on the ball, or not having at least one counter attack situation [like Spurs for instance, they had 1 in the entire first half and scored from it]

[Klopp Your Hands]

If there is a strong ref performance, I think it is to our benefit.
It is extremely frustrating watching them get away with so much.

Maguire can handle the ball any time he likes, it's amazing.

[William Regal]

I'm a little surprised at people talking down Phillips so much, how many games as he played and how many goals have we conceded? I realise hes probably a championship player but i think hes done well, no risk defending and excellent in the air, obviously not the fastest but he's not really been caught out much for that imo

For me Henderson has to start in midfield, the intensity and pressing always drops a couple of levels when he is not there to drive the team, moving him back weakens the defence and the midfield imo, plus he offers great protection to the defence when playing midfield.

[Andy82lfc]

Not sure what is going on with some at the moment saying this is must win, it's game 18 of 38 isn't it? It's not even remotely close in any way shape or form to must win. Not symbolically or literally, nothing.

Is it very important that we win at this stage and not lose, yes of course it is, like any game.

No idea who Klopp will go with but will obvs go with what they figure is best overall, if he throws Williams in it is a danger as although he has many many good attributes the guy runs in treacle as we know so the only caveat is that he must have him protected as if he gets one on one with anyone at any point he might as well sit down and watch from the half way line.

There is a good chance unless Ole is getting full of himself that as usual they shit themselves and park the bus like a gang of cowards. If so Hendo back there will offer a lot more protection against breaks and chasing runners, so I'd be tempted to go with that.

Will be down to luck if they spawn a few breaks as usual and nick one, but in general would be expecting a bit of a bore draw as they will sit back and play shit-on-a-stick football for most of the game, although both sets of fans know very well there is one team capable of smashing 3 or 4 in if we get the breaks, so lets hope the lads are on top form for that. Personally I can't wait for it.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I think we need our best midfielders in midfield, not playing as CB.
If we control the midfield, our defence won't be exposed too much.

Henderson hasn't helped us control the ball of late, quite the opposite in fact. We didn't lose at Southampton because he was in defence.

[Jookie]

You can't go an entire match without the other side not having some spell on the ball, or not having at least one counter attack situation [like Spurs for instance, they had 1 in the entire first half and scored from it]

Also, if we play a high line with Williams or Philips there is potential that United could go longer and hit channels for their forwards to exploit. Particularly if they go with Rashford and Martial up top. Cavani might offer a different challenge.

Henderson isn't rapid but he provides the option of some security with playing a higher defensive line. The issue with Williams and Phillips is pace and the potential United could exploit this. Spurs did this a couple of times when Williams played (though overall he did very well). I think there's games for Williams and Phillips to potentially start. This isn't one.

It probably depends on how much importance you put on playing a higher defensive line versus having your best players in midfield. I think a higher defensive line with someone replacing Henderson in midfield allows us to set up tactically in a more similar manner to the system we've had success with over the last 2-3 seasons. Playing Phillips or Williams means you either have to drop the defensive line (and therefore affect your press) or ask the full backs to sit back more (and affect one of our main areas of attack). the alternative is that you take the risk of play a high line with the full backs pushing on with a slower centre back. That would be a really high risk roll of the dice in my opinion.

[William Regal]

Henderson hasn't helped us control the ball of late, quite the opposite in fact. We didn't lose at Southampton because he was in defence.

I disagree with that, our front 3 pressed quite well v southampton, what lets us down and allowed southampton to play through our press well was that the midfield were a step too slow getting up to join the press and that is where henderson is outstanding, with him midfield we would have won the ball high up the pitch on many many more occasions during that game imo, instead southampton constantly managed to play out

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I disagree with that, our front 3 pressed quite well v southampton, what lets us down and allowed southampton to play through our press well was that the midfield were a step too slow getting up to join the press and that is where henderson is outstanding, with him midfield we would have won the ball high up the pitch on many many more occasions during that game imo, instead southampton constantly managed to play out

First half maybe, second half we had them penned in for the entirety, which I've rarely if ever seen any side do to Hassenhuttl's Southampton. How would Henderson floating balls to the back post have made a difference when it evidently didn't against inferior sides like West Brom and Newcastle?

[Jookie]

Not sure what is going on with some at the moment saying this is must win, it's game 18 of 38 isn't it? It's not even remotely close in any way shape or form to must win. Not symbolically or literally, nothing.

Is it very important that we win at this stage and not lose, yes of course it is, like any game.

Agree with this.

Are the people saying it's a must win game suggesting the league has gone if we don't beat United on Sunday?

Whilst I think it's a highly significant game, and one we could look back on at the end of the season as such, it's hard to say it's a game that is 'must win'to be able to meet our season's objectives in the league when it's in the 1st half of the season and we are only 3 points off the top (or 6 at most).

I get the argument that from a momentum perspective that this game is very important for both sides. I get the argument that City's form is a concern if they get ahead of us by 5 or 6 points. But for me, it's still feasible and reasonable to think we can win the league if we don't win on Sunday. Therefore the game is not 'must win' like some are saying.

Unless 'must win' means something different to others. I do suspect some people are saying we 'must win' to mean to stay as favourites for the league (or at least close to favourites). A draw or a loss would arguably push us to 2nd or 3rd favourites. But I've seen multiple seasons where the team thought of as 2nd or 3rd favourite at the half-way point has ended up winning the title.

[Jookie]

First half maybe, second half we had them penned in for the entirety, which I've rarely if ever seen any side do to Hassenhuttl's Southampton. How would Henderson floating balls to the back post have made a difference when it evidently didn't against inferior sides like West Brom and Newcastle?

Henderson didn't necessarily help in those games but it's hard to argue against him being in are starting XI (as the right sided No. if everyone is fit. I think it's a bit reductive to use the last few games to argue that Henderson wouldn't be missed in midfield.

In saying all that, Henderson should start at centre back and someone else should start in midfield for United. For different reasons than not missing Henderson in midfield though.

[aw1991]

I'm a little surprised at people talking down Phillips so much, how many games as he played and how many goals have we conceded? I realise hes probably a championship player but i think hes done well, no risk defending and excellent in the air, obviously not the fastest but he's not really been caught out much for that imo

For me Henderson has to start in midfield, the intensity and pressing always drops a couple of levels when he is not there to drive the team, moving him back weakens the defence and the midfield imo, plus he offers great protection to the defence when playing midfield.

Control midfield all you want, United are going to get their chances against us, and if Rashford or Martial gets into 1-on-1s against Nat it could end up pretty bad.

[rakey_lfc]

I don't want Henderson CB, let Phillips or Williams play. Henderson Thiago and Gini in midfield will allow us to control the game and protect the CBs. If Klopp goes with Henderson CB, would be interesting to see the midfield and whether shaqiri comes in the middle?

Either way, we really need to win this. Put these fuckers back in their place, lets be honest Ole is building and doing a decent job in fairness, but they wouldn't be anywhere near here without all the dubious penalties.

[William Regal]

First half maybe, second half we had them penned in for the entirety, which I've rarely if ever seen any side do to Hassenhuttl's Southampton. How would Henderson floating balls to the back post have made a difference when it evidently didn't against inferior sides like West Brom and Newcastle?

I only need to see what our win percentage is like when henderson plays and when he doesn't, he's a pressing monster, has huge intensity in his game and lifts the intensity of all those around him. finding a cute throughball isn't his job, i'm sure thiago and gini will help in that regard after henderson wins it high up the pitch

[William Regal]

Control midfield all you want, United are going to get their chances against us, and if Rashford or Martial gets into 1-on-1s against Nat it could end up pretty bad.

I'm sure they'll fancy running at henderson and fabinho at centre half too, for all anyone wants to down talk Phillips or williams, our defensive record with either in the side is pretty good, I think the number of times we allow rashford and martial into 1 v 1s significantly reduces with a midfield of henderson-thiago-gini because they will control the game better and cover the defence better from midfield,

its also worth noting that man utd will pose a significant set piece threat from Bailly, mcguire, mctominay, pogba, cavani etc, I think the inclusion of phillips or williams at the back will bolster us to deal with that

[stonecold_jpm]

Time for the Boss to get back to taking risks with full on heavy metal football, basically like we did v Spurs. Press, and harass them like mad and dominate from the get go. 100% sure if Matip isn’t fit it’ll be Williams at the back and let Hendo do what Hendo does and harass them like mad. With Thiago now available to slot in as DM it’ll be the first time we will have seen Hendo and Gini in front of the DM for a long while, so let’s use this opportunity to get back to it.

[aw1991]

I'm sure they'll fancy running at henderson and fabinho at centre half too, for all anyone wants to down talk Phillips or williams, our defensive record with either in the side is pretty good, I think the number of times we allow rashford and martial into 1 v 1s significantly reduces with a midfield of henderson-thiago-gini because they will control the game better and cover the defence better from midfield,

its also worth noting that man utd will pose a significant set piece threat from Bailly, mcguire, mctominay, pogba, cavani etc, I think the inclusion of phillips or williams at the back will bolster us to deal with that

It's small sample size. When you look at Nat and Rhys individually, their shortcomings become more obvious. I wish nothing but the best for them, both are young and thrown into a difficult situation, but right now I feel more comfortable with Hendo in defense, while a midfield of Thiago, Wij and Milner (Keita if available) could be solid and hard-working enough.

[William Regal]

It's small sample size. When you look at Nat and Rhys individually, their shortcomings become more obvious. I wish nothing but the best for them, both are young and thrown into a difficult situation, but right now I feel more comfortable with Hendo in defense, while a midfield of Thiago, Wij and Milner (Keita if available) could be solid and hard-working enough.

its definitely gonna be an interesting team selection from klopp, lets hope theres no need for any of this and Matip joins training tomorrow

[Dr. Beaker]

Well the team selection is certainly going to give us all a glimpse into the inner workings of the great Kloppo's mind. looking forward to this immensely.

[Andy82lfc]

I'm sure they'll fancy running at henderson and fabinho at centre half too, for all anyone wants to down talk Phillips or williams, our defensive record with either in the side is pretty good, I think the number of times we allow rashford and martial into 1 v 1s significantly reduces with a midfield of henderson-thiago-gini because they will control the game better and cover the defence better from midfield,

its also worth noting that man utd will pose a significant set piece threat from Bailly, mcguire, mctominay, pogba, cavani etc, I think the inclusion of phillips or williams at the back will bolster us to deal with that

You can have a midfield of Hendo, Thiago and Souness x3, but when they counter from an attack and kick the ball over the top of them or down the flank into an entire empty half it doesn't matter. They won't hardly ever be building play from their back line through our midfield, they will be sitting back the entire game waiting for counter attacks. If Klopp plays Williams or Phillips I'm 100% backing any choice they make as it will be the right one on balance, but it will be done with that risk in mind and will always be a gamble with a high line unless they are protected more.

[redk84]

I think we will try and stick to as normal a set up as possible

Win, lose or draw nothing will be decided in terms of the league with so many games left but....I cannot see us losing. I am hoping we win because of the lift it would give us and the dent it would inflict on their current momentum.

Every team we face plays counter against us for the majority of the time, barring maybe City (but even them too)
...United are a naturally good counter-attacking team. They have been built that way over the last couple of seasons so we know how the game will go from the off. Will be just like the Spurs game earlier I'd imagine as Mourinho has turned them into a similar outfit and they have similar qualities. And just like that game I am hoping we can get the 3 points in the end.

I think taking an early chance would be the key to us winning this...or I can see another draw playing out. They would take that now.

[Knight]

I only need to see what our win percentage is like when henderson plays and when he doesn't, he's a pressing monster, has huge intensity in his game and lifts the intensity of all those around him. finding a cute throughball isn't his job, i'm sure thiago and gini will help in that regard after henderson wins it high up the pitch

One of the potential issues with our midfield is Gini certainly does't 'find cute throughballs'. He does lots that is brilliant but when you play Hendo and Gini (and Trent isn't playing well), finding someone on the pitch who can play lock pick passes isn't easy. And against these low blocks, and a reduced set piece threat given the lack of Matip and Van Dijk, it's really not easy for us to create at the moment. 

[PoetryInMotion]

Henderson hasn't helped us control the ball of late, quite the opposite in fact. We didn't lose at Southampton because he was in defence.

That's a problem when he is at 6. Thiago will be the 6 & Hendo will be an 8.

[PoetryInMotion]

Time for the Boss to get back to taking risks with full on heavy metal football, basically like we did v Spurs. Press, and harass them like mad and dominate from the get go. 100% sure if Matip isn’t fit it’ll be Williams at the back and let Hendo do what Hendo does and harass them like mad. With Thiago now available to slot in as DM it’ll be the first time we will have seen Hendo and Gini in front of the DM for a long while, so let’s use this opportunity to get back to it.

Agree with this

[LallanaInPyjamas]

That's a problem when he is at 6. Thiago will be the 6 & Hendo will be an 8.

That's a fair point.

[fowlermagic]

That's a problem when he is at 6. Thiago will be the 6 & Hendo will be an 8.

That is my hope as Henderson is a better fit for box to box and let Thiago be our fulcrum dictating the play. Plus he is very adept at cutting out passing options when we lose the ball as he can read the game both ways. We will cough up chances so we will rely on Becker a couple of times but as long as the lads can be more lethal in front of goal we  can win this one by a couple clear goals. Utd are ticking along but hardly ripping up trees but we have been very dozy at times this season. Perhaps still mentally drunk after winning the title last year plus Covid n the injuries have hampered us no end. Its why I just want us in the hunt at the start of March as we can still win 15 games in a row if we can get our groove back.

[Geezer08]

That's a fair point.

I think we need Hendo, Thiago and Gini in midfield for this. They will most likely play both Fred and the scottish yarddog as the two DM, so its gonna be a combat in midfield. Also Gini and Hendo are both runners and can provide some running beyond Firmino.

[Red_Mist]

Just f**king twat them Reds

[Big Dirk]

The team picks itself if Matip is out as far as I'm concerned.

Alisson

Trent Hendo Fab Robbo

Gini Thiago

Shaq Firmino Mane

Salah

This system and team selection means it is Shaq providing width on the right, where he's more comfortable hugging the touchline and playing incisive passes into the middle than Salah, who is our most dangerous goalscorer and should be allowed a freer role. It keeps our most dangerous combination in tandem down the left side. It helps Bobby focus on knitting play together, even if I have reservations about his carelessness in possession in that role, and tracking back to regain possession for the team, rather than being a presence in the box.

I'd have Gini sitting deeper and getting his fabulous arse in to Pogba, who is undoubtedly a threat at the moment and needs containing. Rashford on the other side will be a concern, but I trust Fabinho against him one v one (with Robbo and Thiago helping out whenever possible), providing he doesn't pick up an early booking. Let Thiago take control of the game. No more endless crossing. Let's play fussball.

I like that team....agree he won’t risk Matip if he wasn’t training today with us having a lot of key games coming up....IMO Williams and Phillips are a no no for this type of game.

[nayia2002]

Not sure what is going on with some at the moment saying this is must win, it's game 18 of 38 isn't it? It's not even remotely close in any way shape or form to must win. Not symbolically or literally, nothing.

Is it very important that we win at this stage and not lose, yes of course it is, like any game.

No idea who Klopp will go with but will obvs go with what they figure is best overall, if he throws Williams in it is a danger as although he has many many good attributes the guy runs in treacle as we know so the only caveat is that he must have him protected as if he gets one on one with anyone at any point he might as well sit down and watch from the half way line.

There is a good chance unless Ole is getting full of himself that as usual they shit themselves and park the bus like a gang of cowards. If so Hendo back there will offer a lot more protection against breaks and chasing runners, so I'd be tempted to go with that.

Will be down to luck if they spawn a few breaks as usual and nick one, but in general would be expecting a bit of a bore draw as they will sit back and play shit-on-a-stick football for most of the game, although both sets of fans know very well there is one team capable of smashing 3 or 4 in if we get the breaks, so lets hope the lads are on top form for that. Personally I can't wait for it.

Its a 6 pointer whatever your argument! So yes it's a must win if we are going to win the league because history shows no champion has won it with 9-10 draws and 4-5 loses(less than 80 points total)

[Samie]

It' not a 6 pointer whatever YOUR argument!

[donnerz]

Not sure if I would have Thiago as a lone 6 in this game. Bruno Fernandes is their main threat and I would perhaps play Gini in the 6 to stifle him, would push Henderson into the 8 alongside Thiago.

[PeterTheRed ...]

What a perfect game. The Mancs top of the table, but when we twat them, we get back to the top, and will never look back. I have a feeling that this game will be something that we will be telling our grandkids about. The day when the shift of power was made official.

[jillcwhomever]

I disagree with that, our front 3 pressed quite well v southampton, what lets us down and allowed southampton to play through our press well was that the midfield were a step too slow getting up to join the press and that is where henderson is outstanding, with him midfield we would have won the ball high up the pitch on many many more occasions during that game imo, instead southampton constantly managed to play out

I agree, I would prefer Henderson in midfield, think he's been in midfield in the majority of big games, he would be a big miss from there on Sunday. I have a question for those who are proposing Hendo starts at CB, who is the one driving the team on in midfield? None of the other midfielders can do that as well as Henderson.

[buttersstotch]

I think that's unlikely.  Curious what the tactical reason you think we'd do that would be?

I think it'll be pretty straightforward for us.

Alison
TAA - Hendo(Matip if fit)-Fab-Robbo
Thiago
Curtis(Hendo if Matip fit) - Gini
Mo-Firmino-Salah

They will probably play a 442 diamond against us, so we could overwhelm them on the wings as they will mainly attack centrally. Plus I guess it leaves our CBs less exposed and it might force Utd to have more possession which they probably won't be used to.

The only problem they have is Pogba is in good form currently, trying to angle his summer move or sign a bumper new contract. Ideally I think Ole would play Fred, McTominay and Fernandes. Be interesting to see if he tries to play Pogba in a more disciplined role as I think our midfield would dominate and turn the screws if this is the case.

[The G in Gerrard]

Got a feeling Rhys starts Sunday

[Jookie]

Its a 6 pointer whatever your argument! So yes it's a must win if we are going to win the league because history shows no champion has won it with 9-10 draws and 4-5 loses(less than 80 points total)

You do know that it's posable for us to get over 80 points even if we draw or lose on Sunday.

We'd have 33 points after 18 games. We'd need 47 from the remaining 20 games. Whilst I think it's unlikely that any team goes on a big winning run like in previous seasons, surely we think our current squad has a least a chance of getting 47 points from the last 20 games.

I get the importance of the game but a loss or draw on Sunday doesn't kill our title challenge after less than half of the season has been played. The way I'm reading some posters, a significant number of you think that unless we win against United a title win is highly unlikely this season. That's quite the bold prediction when we could only be 3 points off the top with 20 games to go.