Topic: Penalties

[cdav]

Why do we get so many fewer than other teams?

What do we need to actually get one?

[Illmatic]

In 13/14 we were awarded the most in the PL that season it is true that in recent seasons we have been awarded less than should have but I'm not sure what to make of it really other than the fact the standard of refereeing is incredibly poor.     

[UntouchableLuis]

I think it's a mix between

A) poor officiating in general
B) media vilification of Salah and Mane.
C) our players not surrounding the refs sometimes in the same way City or United do.

[El Lobo]

This season I hope that it’s nothing more sinister than ‘Liverpool are so good they don’t need our help’ and so they just....don’t give us penalties.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Underdog mentality for referees. It's human nature. They don't feel we need a helping hand so whenever they aren't certain they will side with the opposition, especially at Anfield. Its no coincidence that we've got fewer and fewer penalties the longer the season has gone on. When was our last? January vs West Ham?

[Son of Spion]

What are these penalty things you speak of? 

[Zlen]

It’s referees doing a job of screenplay writers instead of doing their own job. Always the same thing. Refereeing context instead of what is in front of them. ‘Oh it’s Salah in the box - well must be a dive.’ or ‘Oh it’s Liverpool against Bournemouth - well let’s not kill the game just yet.’

Basically they are terrible at their job and are using VAR to cover their tracks instead of using it to improve their performance.

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

Pretty easy to answer:

Why do we get so many fewer than other teams? Because most the refs that ref our matches are ManU supporters.

What do we need to actually get one? Wear Man Utd shirts.

I posted in the Serie A thread, that everytime I watch Juve, Real, Barca, and ManU, I'm literally gobsmacked at how many decisions they get. And the worst things is, it's like some massive global conspiracy that no one (in a position of power) is allowed to talk about. Absolutely does my nut. 

[exiledintheUSA]

Ahh, I remember these penalty things.  I expect one to be given at around the 20 minute mark at Old Trafford tonight. 

[Gods_Left_Boot]

Cause we are not Man United and we don't have English forwards.

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

Ahh, I remember these penalty things.  I expect one to be given at around the 20 minute mark at Old Trafford tonight.

As someone said in another thread, there was too much heat on for the Saints match, but you can bet your house on them getting one against Palace.

Either that or it's because they didn't manage to get in Southampton's box last night.

[Prof]

No idea how Minamino wasn't given one last night.  Goal side of his man, hauled back, tries to stay on his feet but then can't move to the ball to hit it in from 8 yards out.  Then people moan about players going to ground.  It's like it's only enough of a foul if a player falls over.

[him_15]

No pen for Robbo last match and Manamino yesterday are a complete disgrace, I am sure United would get one in both scenario.

[redgriffin73]

No idea how Minamino wasn't given one last night.  Goal side of his man, hauled back, tries to stay on his feet but then can't move to the ball to hit it in from 8 yards out.  Then people moan about players going to ground.  It's like it's only enough of a foul if a player falls over.

And then they'd have probably said he went down too easy.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

And then they'd have probably said he went down too easy.

I don't listen to the biased old twat, but I'm sure someone said Tyler said that Minamino "should have gone down"

What, so that Sky could have it on a loop with various ex refs and ex pros saying that he "went down easily" and made the most of it" so that he's painted as another diver?

The double standards from these twats is incredible.

From Johnson and the Tories, to Trump, to City, Sky and Talksport and the Murdoch media, we are constantly told to believe the sun is shining when it's pissing down outside.

[El Lobo]

Not too arsed about that one last night. It probably was a pen but I don’t think it was a scandalous decision not to give it. The Robbo one though, just shows everything wrong with how games are officiated at the moment. Referee in a tough position to see the ‘tackle’ so feels like he can’t give it, goes to VAR and his mates don’t want to over rule so an utter stonewaller is ignored.

[Crosby Nick]

Not too arsed about that one last night. It probably was a pen but I don’t think it was a scandalous decision not to give it. The Robbo one though, just shows everything wrong with how games are officiated at the moment. Referee in a tough position to see the ‘tackle’ so feels like he can’t give it, goes to VAR and his mates don’t want to over rule so an utter stonewaller is ignored.

I know every ref sees things differently but there have been some very odd ones not given and some other odd ones given since the restart! The Burnley one last night seemed very harsh given the high boot flying around. Let alone all those soft Fernandes ones.

[El Lobo]

I know every ref sees things differently but there have been some very odd ones not given and some other odd ones given since the restart! The Burnley one last night seemed very harsh given the high boot flying around. Let alone all those soft Fernandes ones.

They’re either refusing to over rule their mates, or they just don’t want VAR to work. Either way it’s having the opposite effect to what they want as it’s shining and even more negative light on officials right now. Just since lockdown, if VAR had got things right 90% of the time United would be about 8th. It’s always a bit iffy to start throwing around conspiracy theories but the officiating since lockdown has very much benefited United and Chelsea pushing for top 4 and really nailed Wolves and especially Sheff United.

[Hazell]

This season I hope that it’s nothing more sinister than ‘Liverpool are so good they don’t need our help’ and so they just....don’t give us penalties.

True, I don't think it's just penalties though. The foul on Gomez for the Bournemouth goal or on Origi at Old Trafford were pretty blatant and nothing got given. It's ultimately not cost us this year but may very well do next year.

[tubby]

True, I don't think it's just penalties though. The foul on Gomez for the Bournemouth goal or on Origi at Old Trafford were pretty blatant and nothing got given. It's ultimately not cost us this year but may very well do next year.

But we never remember the stuff that goes in our favour, on another day, Trent could've been send off for the challenge yesterday or the accidental stamp on the Brighton player, but he got away with both.

[DelTrotter]

But we never remember the stuff that goes in our favour, on another day, Trent could've been send off for the challenge yesterday or the accidental stamp on the Brighton player, but he got away with both.

You'd say those Trent things were nothing if it was Mason Greenwood to be fair!

Even Alan Smith didn't think it was a red last night and he's as biased for Arsenal as you'll find anywhere.

[slaphead]

I don't listen to the biased old twat, but I'm sure someone said Tyler said that Minamino "should have gone down"

He did yeah. He said pretty much this "a lot of people ask why players sometimes players go down easily, and there is your answer right there, if he had of went down he may of got a penalty"
Alan Smith then said George Graham used to encourage them to go do down if there was contact, and used to have a go at them if they didn't , which Tyler seemed to agree with.
Won't stop him labelling Salah a diver though

[El Lobo]

You'd say those Trent things were nothing if it was Mason Greenwood to be fair!

Even Alan Smith didn't think it was a red last night and he's as biased for Arsenal as you'll find anywhere.

Well obviously, but Trent is no Mason Greenwood sadly.

[Hazell]

But we never remember the stuff that goes in our favour, on another day, Trent could've been send off for the challenge yesterday or the accidental stamp on the Brighton player, but he got away with both.

Don't remember the Brighton one but yesterdays wasn't a red card was it? I thought the Everton one at Anfield was much wore from Alexander-Arnold.

Yeah, there have been a few things that have gone our way but I don't recall too many things, at least in comparison to some awful decisions that have gone the other way.

[Knight]

The Minamino one yesterday. It's arguably easier, especially with VAR, to tell that a player has been fouled when they don't go down. When players stay on their feet after being touched it can be clearer that they've been impeded because you see the results of them being knocked off balance and trying to stay up. It's when folk go down that you sometimes can't tell l if they've felt a touch and fallen over, or whether the touch impeded them in a genuine way.

[slaphead]

Don't remember the Brighton one but yesterdays wasn't a red card was it? I thought the Everton one at Anfield was much wore from Alexander-Arnold.

Yeah, there have been a few things that have gone our way but I don't recall too many things, at least in comparison to some awful decisions that have gone the other way.

No it was never a red. I think though its easier to remember the bad decisions isnt it ? They stick out a lot more
Was it Utd or City who made a big song and dance about decisions a year or 2 back and asked for a meeting with the Ref's chief. I seen an absolutely incredible stat about pens last week.
Touches in the box Man City and Liverpool combined 2018-2020. 5581. Pens 26.
Same period, Utd. Touches 1857. Pens 25

Either they have way more skillful and tricky forward players than us and City (and lets face it the best strikers ever in the history of strikers in Greenwood and Rashord, and the new Ryan Giggs Daniel James), or something is off

[Petadroli]

Liverpool are inherently an incredibly fair team, winning the fair play awards season after season. For better or for worse, our players don't go down even if there is contact in the box, because they choose to attack the ball anyway. Just yesterday with Mané from the left having a partial 1:1 with the goalkeeper, I am 100% sure that other players in the same situation would not have tried to take a shot, but take the ball inside a bit to force contact with the defender and go down to "win" a penalty. There's countless instances of this behaviour from our players over the whole season. Klopp would never encourage his players to go down easily, it's not what he likes to see in football. In some ways, we do suffer from that.

Anybody remember the CL quarters at City when Salah scored our pivotal away goal? Mané was fouled about three seperate times right before that goal and he could have gone down every single time but chose to keep going until he finally was forcibly brought down. I can guarantee you if Salah would not have scored that one, we would not have gotten a penalty for all the fouls on Mané.

[Indomitable_Carp]

No idea how Minamino wasn't given one last night.  Goal side of his man, hauled back, tries to stay on his feet but then can't move to the ball to hit it in from 8 yards out.  Then people moan about players going to ground.  It's like it's only enough of a foul if a player falls over.

I remember that being one of my overriding impression of Salah in the 2017/2018 season when he was breaking records. I was always incredibly impressed at how much he tried to stay on his feet even when being hacked left right and centre, when most other players would have gone to ground. But he never got given freekicks or penalties as a result.

The next season he started going down with these challenges and winning penalties, and the media were all over his as a diver, despite the fact he stood out previously for his complete lack of diving and only started going to ground because he wasn´t being given deserved pens or freekicks.

Damned if you do, damned if you don´t.

[redgriffin73]

I remember that being one of my overriding impression of Salah in the 2017/2018 season when he was breaking records. I was always incredibly impressed at how much he tried to stay on his feet even when being hacked left right and centre, when most other players would have gone to ground. But he never got given freekicks or penalties as a result.

The next season he started going down with these challenges and winning penalties, and the media were all over his as a diver, despite the fact he stood out previously for his complete lack of diving and only started going to ground because he wasn´t being given deserved pens or freekicks.

Damned if you do, damned if you don´t.

I remember him saying in an interview before the start of this season that he would get more goals as a result of VAR, I assume he thought they'd be spotting far more penalties for fouls on him that refs weren't giving. I must say I thought that would be the case too, how wrong we both were.

[kasperoff]

Liverpool are inherently an incredibly fair team, winning the fair play awards season after season. For better or for worse, our players don't go down even if there is contact in the box, because they choose to attack the ball anyway. Just yesterday with Mané from the left having a partial 1:1 with the goalkeeper, I am 100% sure that other players in the same situation would not have tried to take a shot, but take the ball inside a bit to force contact with the defender and go down to "win" a penalty. There's countless instances of this behaviour from our players over the whole season. Klopp would never encourage his players to go down easily, it's not what he likes to see in football. In some ways, we do suffer from that.

Anybody remember the CL quarters at City when Salah scored our pivotal away goal? Mané was fouled about three seperate times right before that goal and he could have gone down every single time but chose to keep going until he finally was forcibly brought down. I can guarantee you if Salah would not have scored that one, we would not have gotten a penalty for all the fouls on Mané.

We need to fuck this chivalry off really. It's old school and no-one else is bothering with it any more. It's hurts us the most in Europe. We get robbed blind against teams like Althletico, Barca and PSG. Couldn't give a toss what Martin Tyler or Twitter thinks.

Wonderful example of how powerful it can be from last night. Origi taps Tierney on the chest and he folds like a deckchair. Stops Shaqiri getting an equaliser. If Virgil did the same when Arsenal got their first then I can guarantee the ref blows up.

[stevo7]

Man Utd have practiced the art of driving into the box at speed, initiating contact and getting a pen for many a decade.
We tend to pass around the box looking for an opening. I wish we were more direct & drive in sometimes.

[rob1966]

Did you all miss the rule change? It's now illegal to award a penalty to Liverpool FC.

[Hazell]

No it was never a red. I think though its easier to remember the bad decisions isnt it ? They stick out a lot more
Was it Utd or City who made a big song and dance about decisions a year or 2 back and asked for a meeting with the Ref's chief. I seen an absolutely incredible stat about pens last week.
Touches in the box Man City and Liverpool combined 2018-2020. 5581. Pens 26.
Same period, Utd. Touches 1857. Pens 25

Either they have way more skillful and tricky forward players than us and City (and lets face it the best strikers ever in the history of strikers in Greenwood and Rashord, and the new Ryan Giggs Daniel James), or something is off

Don't know what's happening with Man Utd this season.


On the bolded bit, I don't know who true that is, yeah, we've had some go for us this season but I'm struggling to think of many. The against column is pretty extensive though. Can't put it down to anything other than incompetent refs.

Still, i don't think it's as bad as a couple of years ago, where we got what, one penalty at Anfield that season?

[Illmatic]

Still, i don't think it's as bad as a couple of years ago, where we got what, one penalty at Anfield that season?

Yes in 2017/18 we were awarded a one penalty in 19 fixtures. Amazingly Spurs were awarded two at Anfield that season.   

[Dim Glas]

We need to fuck this chivalry off really. It's old school and no-one else is bothering with it any more. It's hurts us the most in Europe. We get robbed blind against teams like Althletico, Barca and PSG. Couldn't give a toss what Martin Tyler or Twitter thinks.

Wonderful example of how powerful it can be from last night. Origi taps Tierney on the chest and he folds like a deckchair. Stops Shaqiri getting an equaliser. If Virgil did the same when Arsenal got their first then I can guarantee the ref blows up.

It won’t happen as long as Jürgen Klopp is here.  The fact that in every one of his seasons with Mainz, Borussia Dortmund and Liverpool, they where either top or close to the top of fair play tables isn’t by chance!

[lobsterboy]

Why do we get so many fewer than other teams?

What do we need to actually get one?

We aren't Manchester Utd.
Our front players aren't English so English pundits have maligned them as divers.

[lobsterboy]

He did yeah. He said pretty much this "a lot of people ask why players sometimes players go down easily, and there is your answer right there, if he had of went down he may of got a penalty"
Alan Smith then said George Graham used to encourage them to go do down if there was contact, and used to have a go at them if they didn't , which Tyler seemed to agree with.
Won't stop him labelling Salah a diver though

Tyler even said your damned if you do, damned if you don't missing the irony that its twats like him doing the fucking damning.

[lgvkarlos]

Let's face it our players need to be assaulted to get a penalty, taking their legs out or pulling them down is not going to give us one.

[afc tukrish]

It won’t happen as long as Jürgen Klopp is here.  The fact that in every one of his seasons with Mainz, Borussia Dortmund and Liverpool, they where either top or close to the top of fair play tables isn’t by chance!

Don't think it's necessarily due solely to nobility of spirit, either; Klopp stresses winning the ball without fouling because committing a foul stops the game right in the middle of treasured transitional opportunities to win the ball back in dangerous positions.

[ep1987]

It's arguably easier, especially with VAR, to tell that a player has been fouled when they don't go down. When players stay on their feet after being touched it can be clearer that they've been impeded because you see the results of them being knocked off balance and trying to stay up. It's when folk go down that you sometimes can't tell l if they've felt a touch and fallen over, or whether the touch impeded them in a genuine way.

Simple solution is for VAR to overturn any instance where the player clearly went down when they could have stayed up and it wasn't an unquestionable penalty.

Even better; stop awarding penalties for fouls in the 'penalty area' (which is now an anachronism) and give them for all denials of clear goal scoring opportunities instead (other fouls inside the 18 yard box resulting in free kicks outside the area).