Author Topic: Atletico Madrid  (Read 31163 times)

Offline gordonchas

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #120 on: May 2, 2014, 04:23:58 pm »
Costa is already pretty much guaranteed to be going to Chelsea, and unless Cech recovers well from his injury Courtois could join. Then you've also got Koke and a bunch of others who will be in big-money demand. The way Pellegrini raided Sevilla for Navas and Negredo could well be repeated this summer with City buying a couple of Atletico's players. And then you've also got United supposedly throwing £200m around...

They've got a good chance of being able to cope without Diego Costa. He's done very well but I honestly can't decide if he's really as great as the press he's getting. Courtois has definitely saved them points this season so will be a loss when he goes, and Koke is a very good and important player for them, but I shouldn't think any major side is going to go after any of their other players. Their most influential player is Gabi, who wasn't even playing on Wednesday and most of the rest of the habitual starting line-up are, like him,  just good, honest experienced pros: Godin, Juanfran, Felipe Luis, Miranda, Tiago. Raul Garcia, Mario Suarez all fall into this category. Even if you look at a more skilful performer like Arda Turan, is a bigger club than Atletico going to make a move for him?

What will cause Atletico to fall away is not a drain of players, but the ability to be able to maintain the same level of intensity.

Offline Tomaldinho

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #121 on: May 2, 2014, 04:26:56 pm »
Look at the strikers they've let go of in the last 10 years though and they're where they are now.

Look at the players Benfica have sold in the last 5, and they're not doing too badly.
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Offline indlfc

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #122 on: May 2, 2014, 05:32:57 pm »


I'd post the same picture again but, y'know, bandwidth and stuff.

Why would he go there?
Money?
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #123 on: May 2, 2014, 07:25:47 pm »
They've got a good chance of being able to cope without Diego Costa. He's done very well but I honestly can't decide if he's really as great as the press he's getting. Courtois has definitely saved them points this season so will be a loss when he goes, and Koke is a very good and important player for them, but I shouldn't think any major side is going to go after any of their other players. Their most influential player is Gabi, who wasn't even playing on Wednesday and most of the rest of the habitual starting line-up are, like him,  just good, honest experienced pros: Godin, Juanfran, Felipe Luis, Miranda, Tiago. Raul Garcia, Mario Suarez all fall into this category. Even if you look at a more skilful performer like Arda Turan, is a bigger club than Atletico going to make a move for him?

What will cause Atletico to fall away is not a drain of players, but the ability to be able to maintain the same level of intensity.
People have been saying exactly that about them all season though, and here they are 2 wins from 3 games away from securing the La Liga title and in the final of the CL...  ::)

Offline gordonchas

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #124 on: May 2, 2014, 07:38:54 pm »
People have been saying exactly that about them all season though, and here they are 2 wins from 3 games away from securing the La Liga title and in the final of the CL...  ::)

Maintaining it has been a fantastic achievement this season, particularly after the last one when it got to them and they dropped off the pace. In recent league games they have struggled to home wins over Granada, Villarreal and Elche when it looked like they were running on fumes left in the tank, but they did enough to get the points.

I'm talking about next season, though. After Real Madrid won the league in 2012 they were still on the beach until November as Mourinho's efforts to overcome Barcelona had them physically and mentally stretched further than Torquemada's Chain could have managed.  This reaction, I fear, will also be Atletico's. In the meantime I only hope they get the remaining wins they need.
« Last Edit: May 2, 2014, 07:40:33 pm by gordonchas »

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #125 on: May 2, 2014, 08:38:59 pm »
Maintaining it has been a fantastic achievement this season, particularly after the last one when it got to them and they dropped off the pace. In recent league games they have struggled to home wins over Granada, Villarreal and Elche when it looked like they were running on fumes left in the tank, but they did enough to get the points.

I'm talking about next season, though. After Real Madrid won the league in 2012 they were still on the beach until November as Mourinho's efforts to overcome Barcelona had them physically and mentally stretched further than Torquemada's Chain could have managed.  This reaction, I fear, will also be Atletico's. In the meantime I only hope they get the remaining wins they need.
As far as I'm aware the bulk of Atletico's side won't be competing at the world cup though which should allow them to recover. The same can't be said about Real and Barcelona.

Offline Serano

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #126 on: May 3, 2014, 11:54:27 am »
Costa is already pretty much guaranteed to be going to Chelsea, and unless Cech recovers well from his injury Courtois could join. Then you've also got Koke and a bunch of others who will be in big-money demand. The way Pellegrini raided Sevilla for Navas and Negredo could well be repeated this summer with City buying a couple of Atletico's players. And then you've also got United supposedly throwing £200m around...

I think Costa will stay another season. Koke will definitely stay. He's a boyhood Atleti fan, and has consistently pledged that his future is at the club.

People forget that they have some very talented youngsters who may be ready to make an impact next season too. Namely Oliver, Saul Niguez, Gimenez and Manquillo.

Angel Correa is pretty much done and dusted too, and will hopefully be an upgrade in their attacking/wide positions. They have also been linked with Rakitic and Pastore, both of which would add to the squad.

It will be a blow for them if/when they lose Courtois, as Neuer, De Gea and Ter Stegen aside there's no one of a similar age who is in his age group.

But yes, I think it will be more about who they keep, rather than who they bring in.


Offline Tomaldinho

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #127 on: May 3, 2014, 11:56:47 am »
Money?
Van Gaal/Klopp?

Klopp is Dortmund manager. Keep up.
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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #128 on: May 29, 2014, 04:24:17 pm »
Are they planning on buying anyone else to replace Costa, or are they going to rely on this new Argentinian wonder kid they just got?

Offline HighSix

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #129 on: May 29, 2014, 04:35:41 pm »
Are they planning on buying anyone else to replace Costa, or are they going to rely on this new Argentinian wonder kid they just got?

Guess so. Still being linked with a few central strikers...  Lukaku loan, Damiao, Bacca, Immobile, Negredo ect. Correa would be a risk to rely on him straight away & his body type is completely different to Costa which was a big factor of a Simeone side.

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #130 on: May 29, 2014, 04:40:03 pm »
Bacca would be an interesting one. Probably cost a fair bit and I'm not sure if he's good enough to start regularly for a Champions League side, but he would fit with what they want and he's done well in his first season. Plus if they bring Rakitic along they can maybe build a bit around that connection.

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #131 on: May 30, 2014, 12:46:53 am »
^Bacca has been a very difficult one to judge for me. Ultimately, he is not a top striker, and he is never going to be one. I think Baptistao is a better bet.

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #132 on: May 30, 2014, 01:59:32 am »
Buying Ivan Rakitic apparently, that would be a wonderful signing for Atleti.

Arda, Rakitic, and Koke as a trio behind a centre forward, with Raul Garcia in reserve...not bad at all

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #133 on: May 30, 2014, 04:14:18 am »
Rakitic is a great signing for them. Maybe they could go for someone like Jackson Martinez to replace Costa?
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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #134 on: May 30, 2014, 04:27:29 am »
Rakitic is a great signing for them. Maybe they could go for someone like Jackson Martinez to replace Costa?

Funnily enough, Soldado's been linked with them.
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Offline Gifted Right Foot

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #135 on: May 30, 2014, 04:50:36 am »
Soldado might grow some balls with Diego Simeone managing him.

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #136 on: May 30, 2014, 10:34:45 am »
€400m in debt..... They've lived beyond their means and have bought a title they can't actually afford.....

Much of that debt payable to the tax man, so they've been somewhat publicly funded..


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Offline gordonchas

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #137 on: May 30, 2014, 11:34:56 am »
€400m in debt..... They've lived beyond their means and have bought a title they can't actually afford.....

Much of that debt payable to the tax man, so they've been somewhat publicly funded..


Is a less romantic way of looking at Atletico

And would be a very harsh way of looking at it, because they can hardly be said to have "bought" a title in which they had expenditure at a third of the level of their rivals for it.

In the current climate they are at least not adding further to their debts (unlike most clubs) and having to repay the debt built up in earlier, less successful times. That debt bought nothing much, recent success is in spite of it, not because of it.

It's interesting to me that Real Madrid are always accused of being somehow supported by the Spanish state, and yet if there is any lesson from debts to the Spanish authorities it is that these have been looked upon very favourably in the cases of Atletico and Deportivo - which is not to say they will be absolved from their responsibilities to pay them, but it casts a very different light on the picture.

Yesterday I was reading the Hercules de Alicante forum and they were lamenting the fact that, whilst this week their relegation to the regional Segunda B willl probably be confimed mathematically, just three years ago they beat Atletico 4-1 to move themselves into mid-table in La Liga and leave Atletico 20 and 22 points respectively behind Real Madrid and Barcelona with less than half the season played.

The Atletico team that night included Godin, Felipe Luis, Raul Garcia, Mario Suarez, Koke and Diego Costa as well as De Gea, Forlan and Aguero.

That shows the enormity of what has been achieved in the meantime, because the huge improvement has not come from buying success with borrowed money, but during a period when what they can spend has been limited by having to manage the previously accumulated debt.

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #138 on: May 30, 2014, 12:42:15 pm »
Have they signed Rakitic?  Great signing.

I thought Real were after him too.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #139 on: May 30, 2014, 04:50:40 pm »
And would be a very harsh way of looking at it, because they can hardly be said to have "bought" a title in which they had expenditure at a third of the level of their rivals for it.

In the current climate they are at least not adding further to their debts (unlike most clubs) and having to repay the debt built up in earlier, less successful times. That debt bought nothing much, recent success is in spite of it, not because of it.

It's interesting to me that Real Madrid are always accused of being somehow supported by the Spanish state, and yet if there is any lesson from debts to the Spanish authorities it is that these have been looked upon very favourably in the cases of Atletico and Deportivo - which is not to say they will be absolved from their responsibilities to pay them, but it casts a very different light on the picture.

Yesterday I was reading the Hercules de Alicante forum and they were lamenting the fact that, whilst this week their relegation to the regional Segunda B willl probably be confimed mathematically, just three years ago they beat Atletico 4-1 to move themselves into mid-table in La Liga and leave Atletico 20 and 22 points respectively behind Real Madrid and Barcelona with less than half the season played.

The Atletico team that night included Godin, Felipe Luis, Raul Garcia, Mario Suarez, Koke and Diego Costa as well as De Gea, Forlan and Aguero.

That shows the enormity of what has been achieved in the meantime, because the huge improvement has not come from buying success with borrowed money, but during a period when what they can spend has been limited by having to manage the previously accumulated debt.
I think the argument that they built a title winning side on a sensible budget is spot on....

However, they shouldn't have been able to do that as they should have been paying off their (huge) debt.

They're still living beyond their means in many ways as they could pay off a huge chunk of their debt by selling players......


It's popular to knock real for their debt being wiped out by the government buying their training ground (and it's right to knock them too), but Atletico are just as indebted to the state...

Neither situation would ever have been allowed in Britain.


Atletico would have been wound up by HMRC and real would have had to pay off their debt by minimising their spending .....


It's not really a level laying field for British clubs when that is allowed to happen....
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Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #140 on: May 30, 2014, 04:57:23 pm »
With Alonso, Modric both being boss, Di Maria having a more central role, Illaremendi in the ranks and still Khedira to come back from injury, I couldn't really see the need for Rakitic. He'll do better at Atletico
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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #141 on: May 30, 2014, 05:05:03 pm »
is Rakitic confirmed?
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Offline gordonchas

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #142 on: May 30, 2014, 05:24:21 pm »

It's popular to knock real for their debt being wiped out by the government buying their training ground (and it's right to knock them too) [

TH, that didn't happen. The Madrid Council (not the government) merely gave them planning permission to turn their training ground from being zoned for sports use, to allowing the land to be converted to commercial use. There was no exchange of funds between the council and Real Madrid.

Exactly the same thing happens in the UK.


Neither situation would ever have been allowed in Britain.


Atletico would have been wound up by HMRC and real would have had to pay off their debt by minimising their spending .....


It's not really a level laying field for British clubs when that is allowed to happen....

It is certainly true that in the UK the debt to HMRC would not have been allowed to balloon to the astronomical levels of Atletico and Depor (which is odd even by Spanish standards), nevertheless just as example, during Leeds United's previous administration in 2007 HMRC had to swallow a £7m loss because they couldn't collect that money. But Leeds still continued despite paying back less than a tenth of what they owed.. Since then they've  managed to rack up another £22m of debt and HMRC have only been saved from another £1m loss by Cellino buying the club. It's just a question of degree. At least, for now, Atletico are paying back all the tax debt plus interest.

Your argument seems to be that no club should be allowed to build any indebtedness to institutions. That would be an argument I have a lot of time for. However, that doesn't apply to any English club any more than it does to those Spanish ones.

Offline HighSix

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #143 on: June 1, 2014, 02:12:34 pm »
Villa off to MLS with NYC rumoured.

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« Last Edit: June 1, 2014, 02:14:18 pm by HighSix »

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #144 on: June 1, 2014, 02:19:44 pm »
Villa off to MLS with NYC rumoured.

Money talks! His legs have gone now though so nice payday for him  :)

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #145 on: April 27, 2016, 09:44:12 pm »
Best team in Europe.
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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #146 on: April 27, 2016, 09:47:03 pm »
Their CL record at home under Simeone:

Played 16
Won 14
13 clean sheets
Scored 34
Conceded 4

Ridiculous.

Offline HighSix

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #147 on: April 27, 2016, 10:05:59 pm »
How he can change CBs against such good opposition is a credit to his system & how the back up players train.

Savic & the French kid slot in seamlessly be it with Godin or Gimenez.

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #148 on: April 27, 2016, 10:08:01 pm »
Rakitic is a great signing for them. Maybe they could go for someone like Jackson Martinez to replace Costa?

???

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #149 on: April 28, 2016, 08:26:19 am »
Regarding their financial situation Atletico have been diligently making payments for their outstanding with the tax authorities every year and by next year they will have reduced their tax debt to zero. They are also scheduled to move into their new 70,000 seater stadium in 2017 and they have one of the youngest squads in europe. Not to mention the new La Liga tv  deal increases their tv revenue by over 100%. Simeone does not look like he wants to leave right now either. Their future looks good for the moment.

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #150 on: April 28, 2016, 09:53:21 am »
They're a fucking horrible team to watch. Gang of snides too.

Remind me very much of the Chelsea side that sat and soaked up the pressure against us in 2013/14 then hit us on the break to destroy our title hopes.

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #151 on: April 28, 2016, 10:44:39 am »
They're a fucking horrible team to watch. Gang of snides too.

Remind me very much of the Chelsea side that sat and soaked up the pressure against us in 2013/14 then hit us on the break to destroy our title hopes.

So? They have to play different if they want to compete with Barca and Madrid. Fair play to them.
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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #152 on: April 28, 2016, 11:22:37 am »
So? They have to play different if they want to compete with Barca and Madrid. Fair play to them.

Didn't say they weren't entitled to do it. Just said they're horrible to watch.

Put it this way, I'd have enjoyed a Barca-Bayern game last night more than what was on.

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #153 on: April 28, 2016, 11:30:06 am »
Didn't say they weren't entitled to do it. Just said they're horrible to watch.

Put it this way, I'd have enjoyed a Barca-Bayern game last night more than what was on.

Yeah fair point.
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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #154 on: April 28, 2016, 11:45:41 am »
Great goal last night, great club, love to see them taking the establishment on, horrible to watch play football though.

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #155 on: April 28, 2016, 12:09:20 pm »
Their CL record at home under Simeone:

Played 16
Won 14
13 clean sheets
Scored 34
Conceded 4

Ridiculous.

Ooph, tasty.

Was funny watching Liam Brady almost in tears after they knocked out Barca. Must wind him up that Simeone has done what Wenger could never do. They are no more cynical than Barca, Real or Bayern either so i really don't know what he was crying about.
They are brilliant to watch, how can any purist not marvel at their defensive organisation? Simeone is building something like what Rafa might of if the owners at Valencia or Liverpool had let him get on with it.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 12:11:35 pm by BER »

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #156 on: April 28, 2016, 12:49:03 pm »
Regarding their financial situation Atletico have been diligently making payments for their outstanding with the tax authorities every year and by next year they will have reduced their tax debt to zero. They are also scheduled to move into their new 70,000 seater stadium in 2017 and they have one of the youngest squads in europe. Not to mention the new La Liga tv  deal increases their tv revenue by over 100%. Simeone does not look like he wants to leave right now either. Their future looks good for the moment.

Wonder at what point Simeone will eventually make the switch to Inter. Hopefully not for a few seasons anyway. Their cynicism not a patch on Mourinho's sides and although not as enthralling to watch as other teams, i still still get great enjoyment from their wolf pack mentality, military like organisation and the undoubted class of Niguez, Koke and Griezmann etc.

Was gutted for Torres when that shot didn't go in, time is a great healer as they say.  :)

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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #157 on: April 28, 2016, 01:10:48 pm »
Ooph, tasty.

Was funny watching Liam Brady almost in tears after they knocked out Barca. Must wind him up that Simeone has done what Wenger could never do. They are no more cynical than Barca, Real or Bayern either so i really don't know what he was crying about.
They are brilliant to watch, how can any purist not marvel at their defensive organisation? Simeone is building something like what Rafa might of if the owners at Valencia or Liverpool had let him get on with it.

Yea it reminds me somewhat of Valencia/Liverpool - think both those sides were better at attack (and not as watertight at Atletico despite being incredibly good defensively) though.

Also nowhere near as snide.
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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #158 on: April 28, 2016, 02:14:17 pm »
Bayern made more fouls yesterday.
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Re: Atletico Madrid
« Reply #159 on: April 28, 2016, 06:30:48 pm »
Wonder at what point Simeone will eventually make the switch to Inter. Hopefully not for a few seasons anyway. Their cynicism not a patch on Mourinho's sides and although not as enthralling to watch as other teams, i still still get great enjoyment from their wolf pack mentality, military like organisation and the undoubted class of Niguez, Koke and Griezmann etc.

Was gutted for Torres when that shot didn't go in, time is a great healer as they say.  :)

Can't see Simeone leaving anytime soon. I think 3-4 years atleast is a given. He seems to be very happy there and was quick to dispel the Chelsea rumours. He seems to be very invested in his project right now. Atletico are in a period of transition with the new stadium and the tv deal. I think he will see out the transition at the very least.