Author Topic: From Shanks to Socialism to Suarez. More than a 100 years apart. #SHANKLY100  (Read 5965 times)

Offline Hinesy

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He must be spinning in his grave. What I'd give to see Shankly manage Suarez. But then again, would he recognise any of today's footballers? Or the demons and greeds that drive them?

When Shankly's 100th birthday is coming up, it feels more than perhaps a 1000 years ago that he fought for bonus payments for the Liverpool players after reaching the '65 cup final. When his innate understanding of what the link was between not just club and supporter but club and community firmly sowed the seeds of 'specialness' that was to become what Liverpool should be about.

Now Carragher is perhaps a dying breed of those who maintain the link with the city, the people and the community - those people who pay his wages. Suarez's actions and greed shows that he cares not who pays for his fancy goods, his loyalty lies frankly with his the wallet and agent not the stands and fans.

We all talk about how different football is from when we were now't but Boys Pen Fodder; but really the gulf is truly demonstrated when you look at the legacy that Bill left, and how its treated today by those who consider football to be nothing more than a plc .

Its not sad necessarily, its perhaps more disappointing, that the players of today care not for the cultural history of what Liverpool is (or was) (and why should they when the owners care less?)

I wonder if the touching of the This Is Anfield sign has any meaning for players today? If the notion of playing for Liverpool is anything more than a way in to the Premiership?

When I look back at Shankly's time, and I was a young child for most of it; its not the cups nor the teams that he created, its not the sayings or the players he brought in, its the socialism and community and ethos of what it is to have a team and city linked, inextricably together, moving together as a mighty momentum when the players know the fans are there for them and respect that. Acknowledge it, and let that sense influence their decisions in their careers.

That's why I'll always have respect for Gerrard. When Jose's pretty ankles were turning his head, he was reminded by his dad of what it was to play for Liverpool, what it meant. And the mere fact he knew it meant something, meant something to me.

Shankly, for me, created Liverpool's identity more than any other manager. Bob will be always my favourite manager, and all that. Kenny knew too, how the blood of the club flowed through the city's veins, but it was Bill who with all his charisma, and that gruff force of nature that was his way, made us Red.

The Reds are coming up the Hill boys. Bill's at our head, and frankly I wish he was here now to take aside certain players and remind them truly,  properly, this is what playing for Liverpool means.

You may say I'm a dreamer, and those days are gone, but when we reflect on our lost heroes, emotion and nostalgic pride will always fire me up for the future and steel my determination to try and make things better in my own small way, more than antipathy and regret ever will.

I miss you and your kind Mr Shankly.
Yep.

Offline bclfc

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Yes.

 :wellin
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Quote from: shanklyboy on April  3, 2006, 12:04:44 AM

    IF YOU'RE EVER SKINT ROMAN
          WE'VE GOT 5 EUROS
                 * * * * *

Offline Harinder

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Awesome piece.
Just clicked on the main board and my virus scanner came back with this

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Strip his knighthood https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770

Offline kennedy81

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well said mate, and beautifully put.

Offline Aristotle

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Great piece.

One thing that really stuck with me is this.
He must be spinning in his grave. What I'd give to see Shankly manage Suarez. But then again, would he recognise any of today's footballers? Or the demons and greeds that drive them?

What was part of Shankly's charm was how down to earth he was and in touch with the people who watched the game. But would he ever get away with it in today's game?

"The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they don't know the game." would probably get him a big fine and a 3 match sideline ban from the Football Association.

"I know this is a sad occasion, but I think that Dixie would be amazed to know that even in death he could draw a bigger crowd to Goodison than Everton on a Saturday afternoon." - and you'd have internet petitions to have him banned from ever managing again.

"Take that poof bandage off, and what do you mean YOUR knee, it's LIVERPOOL'S knee!" and he'd be called homophobic and an agent filing a complaint with the PFA.


The game he knew and loved died a long, long time ago. But still, fantastic article.
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Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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shanks would of handled him.

sent him to a&e and given him some of that concentration juice to counteract too much orange squash as a kid.

seriously suarez is just a kid still at heart....with lots of tantrums.

had this been any other player doing it it would have been much more calculated and they would have had a pr agent making it look better for themselves.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Every now and then I get reminded why I love this place , and it's because of great posts from brilliant writers like Hinesy
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Offline John C

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Lovely, lovely lovely. I thoroughly enjoyed that mate,

I wonder if the touching of the This Is Anfield sign has any meaning for players today?
To many its probably the thing to do rather than a heart felt action. But you know what, I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Toure gets it.

I'd be interested in what vic thinks Shankly would do. Would he make him train on Oterspool Prom or would he have the ability to convince him of his errors.

Great stuff Hinesy.

Offline Harinder

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Lovely, lovely lovely. I thoroughly enjoyed that mate,
To many its probably the thing to do rather than a heart felt action. But you know what, I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Toure gets it.

I'd be interested in what vic thinks Shankly would do. Would he make him train on Oterspool Prom or would he have the ability to convince him of his errors.

Great stuff Hinesy.

The saddest part about the sign is that once only a luck few could touch it. Now any monkey on a tour can. Pieces like this one are small but significant steps that fights back at the diluted and distilled version packaged and sold as Liverpool FC

The more who read this and actually get what Hinesy is stating, the more steps we take together. Many will bypass this and jump straight to the STFU and that in itself should be considered a good thing

We don't want this piece to go the same way as the sign  :)
Just clicked on the main board and my virus scanner came back with this

"When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors."


:lmao

Strip his knighthood https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770

Offline Hinesy

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That's an excellent point Harindwr mate. Never even thought about that dilution of the sign's power.
Yep.

Offline BSBW

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You hit on a major point there Hinesy "its the socialism and community and ethos of what it is to have a team and city linked." Shanks, his team and staff had a connection with the match goers and the city in general. He understood that for the majority of us it was one of the most important things going on in our lives, most of us were struggling to make ends meet, but we were still there, home and away, getting there by hook or by crook. It was a pain in the arse getting to the start of the M62 on a Friday night to hitch somewhere and when you got there, there were loads of other little groups doing the same!

The match going experienced changed years ago and sadly, it will never be the same again. It was a very special period in the history of our great club and I feel privileged to have been a part of it. 
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Offline kapil08

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Kwalitee read.
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Offline d3lu5ion

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Nice read.. Shankly wanted players to play with their heart.. Sadly most of todays players follow that, but the Club is not in their heart but money is...

Offline Manila Vanilla

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Nice article, Hinesy.

"its the socialism and community and ethos of what it is to have a team and city linked."
I think you could even reduce this to just “it’s the ethos of what it is to have a team and city linked.” That was everything for me. It was the values of my grandfather. Positive encouragement, loyalty and fair play to all. Shankly tapped into these sentiments perfectly. We probably overestimated the loyalty of our players as they were pretty much tied pre-Bosman.

The standard post-match comment now is “The important thing is the team” but we all know that’s not true. Almost any player will now look for a move after one decent season. Odemwingie and Suarez are just extreme examples.

It’s a bit like seeing a small local brewery being marketed globally and coining it in while it starts to serve gnat’s piss. But that’s what the majority seem to want so who are we to argue? The main problem for the game will be, not just to replace those of us who have left, but managing the ever-increasing number of new customers needed to stop the bubble from bursting.



Offline BSBW

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Nice article, Hinesy.
I think you could even reduce this to just “it’s the ethos of what it is to have a team and city linked.” That was everything for me. It was the values of my grandfather. Positive encouragement, loyalty and fair play to all. Shankly tapped into these sentiments perfectly. We probably overestimated the loyalty of our players as they were pretty much tied pre-Bosman

I'd have to disagree there mate, Shankly understood the working class roots of football, he was an integral part of it, he knew what we were about and  where we all came from, he came from the same stock. Even though I'm not a politically motivated individual, I would definitely not omit the socialist aspects of what Shanks was about, it was a very important part of his life and something that should be respected and understood.
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Offline Manila Vanilla

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Shankly understood the working class roots of football, he was an integral part of it,
No doubting Shankly's socialist beliefs. However, there was also a wider, non-political set of beliefs that everyone could buy into. My grandfather told me three things before my first match - "Applaud the opposition goalkeeper, give credit where it's due and never ever boo your own players." That was an ethos that anyone could grasp and it seems to be disappearing.

Offline BSBW

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No doubting Shankly's socialist beliefs. However, there was also a wider, non-political set of beliefs that everyone could buy into. My grandfather told me three things before my first match - "Applaud the opposition goalkeeper, give credit where it's due and never ever boo your own players." That was an ethos that anyone could grasp and it seems to be disappearing.

Agree, but don't forget to take the piss at every opportunity, even when it involves your own players.
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Offline Manila Vanilla

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Agree, but don't forget to take the piss at every opportunity, even when it involves your own players.

Agreed! (Johnny Wark, Johnny Wark.....)  ;)

Offline The Fletcher Memorial

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I actually think Shanks would have loved Suarez.  And Suarez would have loved Shanks. But yes, we live in very different times now and sadly players are not what they used to be – shit, people in general aren’t what they used to be – so unfortunately, what with the money that’s poisoned the game and the power agents have, it seems we have to accept it. But in the right way, the Liverpool way.

I think Shanks would be very proud of Rogers and the way he has handled things; no player is bigger than this club.

Lovely piece Hinesy. 
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Offline kennedy81

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I'd have to disagree there mate, Shankly understood the working class roots of football, he was an integral part of it, he knew what we were about and  where we all came from, he came from the same stock. Even though I'm not a politically motivated individual, I would definitely not omit the socialist aspects of what Shanks was about, it was a very important part of his life and something that should be respected and understood.

I think so too, at least from what I've been learning about him. It clearly influenced his everything from his attitude to training, the relationships with this staff and players, to his style of football.
As Hugh McIlvanney puts it in The Football Men documentary that you can see on youtube about Shanks, Stein and Busby:

Quote
"The essence of the playing style of Shankly's Liverpool was, as he said, a kind of jock-strap socialism.
An all-for-one and one-for-all commitment, made overwhelmingly effective by the quality of passing and the intelligence and tirelessness of the support for the man on the ball, by everyone else in the team."

Add that to the strong link between the club and its fanatical and loyal local support, and you have an irresistible dynamic, whereby everyone from fans, players and staff is putting in the effort and reaping the rewards.
And he often said he was simply one of them (the fans). There was no distancing himself from the supporters or putting himself or the players above them. He understood their importance as so much more than simply a source of revenue.
His working class background and socialist ideals surely influenced that thinking and the affinity he felt with the people of Liverpool.

That's only the impression I get anyway, as he was before my time. I really envy some of you older lads who remember him and who were part of all that. It must have been an extraordinary time and an amazing thing to be part of.

Offline Uruguayan36

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(WHAT THE ABSOLUTE ZARKING FARK DO YOU THINK IS THE RELEVANCE OF PUTTING THAT IN A SHANKLY THREAD, YOU TOTAL MUPPET??  :butt )
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 04:07:59 pm by 24/7 »

Offline Motty

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Very good piece Hinesy

Offline swordfishtrombone

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A great read. Thanks.

Offline saoirse08

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Can't think of a better thing to read as a preface to cracking open Peace's Red or Dead, as I will later. Thanks for the OP, excellent read that.

 :wellin
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Offline Barney_Rubble

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Brill.

I'd love to know what he'd make of football today. I think his main beef would be with cheats and divers.

"I'd break my wife's legs if I played against her, but I'd never cheat her."

87:13

Offline The Fletcher Memorial

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Brill.

I'd love to know what he'd make of football today. I think his main beef would be with cheats and divers.

"I'd break my wife's legs if I played against her, but I'd never cheat her."



Reminds me of Suarez a few months back when the Liverpool Ladies were training with the first team and he was throwing slide tackles in on them while the other lads where going easy. Made me laugh and I love that about him.
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Offline vicgill

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Every now and then I get reminded why I love this place , and it's because of great posts from brilliant writers like Hinesy

says it all for me
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