Topic: Draft Towers

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

Andy Tate Draft: Four of Clubs Special

 

[Latenight Surfer]

Have we ever done anything around months of the year and players' births? Could call it a Zodiac Draft... 12 rounds of a sheep draft, first round is obviously January... do you dare go for Romario or Xavi or Luis Suarez? Or do you player safer? After each month has been done - you could have 12 players or maybe just several - you then have a few bonus rounds where the banned list comes into play etc. I could flesh it out further but just wondered what you thought on the basic premise.

I like this

[Popcorn]

Good idea that Rossi, I'd play that.

[Max_powers]

I have a Draft Idea. How about a Director of football draft.

 DoF draft

• All participants are randomly assigned a great manager like Shankly, Guardiola, Sacchi etc.
• They are given 100m to spend and must build a team that suits the playing style of said manager. For example a Guardiola's team must have technically gifted midfielders Or Ferguson's team must have great wingers
• Teams are assembled through auctioning and trading over 11 rounds.
• (Optional rule) Can't draft players that played under the manager you are assigned.

[RossoBianchi]

Cheers, good feedback so far. Like I said, I could flesh it out a bit further and to be honest, I'd be pretty keen running it. I enjoy the drafts but never come close to winning one so being on the other side of the fence would represent an interesting change. I'm on here pretty much every day so could organise it no problem - would just depend if people mind me running it.

Would be easy enough to research with a simple Wiki search. Got a few twists in mind already

Edit - just seen post above, happy with whatever draft we go with

[NICHOLLS]

I have a Draft Idea. How about a Director of football draft.

 DoF draft

• All participants are randomly assigned a great manager like Shankly, Guardiola, Sacchi etc.
• They are given 100m to spend and must build a team that suits the playing style of said manager. For example a Guardiola's team must have technically gifted midfielders Or Ferguson's team must have great wingers
• Teams are assembled through auctioning and trading over 11 rounds.
• (Optional rule) Can't draft players that played under the manager you are assigned.

I LIKE DIS. ALOT 

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

I LIKE DIS. ALOT 

Yes I'd be up for that one. 

[Betty Blue]

Cheers, good feedback so far. Like I said, I could flesh it out a bit further and to be honest, I'd be pretty keen running it. I enjoy the drafts but never come close to winning one so being on the other side of the fence would represent an interesting change. I'm on here pretty much every day so could organise it no problem - would just depend if people mind me running it.

Would be easy enough to research with a simple Wiki search. Got a few twists in mind already

Edit - just seen post above, happy with whatever draft we go with

I don't see why anyone would have a problem with you running a draft. You may be a manc, but you're our manc    And a good RAWK poster too.

I probably wouldn't have the time for it, but I think it's a good idea and I'd enjoy watching

I have a Draft Idea. How about a Director of football draft.

 DoF draft

• All participants are randomly assigned a great manager like Shankly, Guardiola, Sacchi etc.
• They are given 100m to spend and must build a team that suits the playing style of said manager. For example a Guardiola's team must have technically gifted midfielders Or Ferguson's team must have great wingers
• Teams are assembled through auctioning and trading over 11 rounds.
• (Optional rule) Can't draft players that played under the manager you are assigned.

This is also a great idea. Although I'm not sure how it would actually work in practice. I mean, whoever gets Mourinho and Fergie would probably automatically lose on here    But seriously, there would need to be some strict guidlines to make this work. Perhaps we would all need to agree on the defining characteristics/style of play of a set of 16 managers before even starting anything. Some managers like Pep and Wenger are fairly obvious, but what would be the distinction between a Rinus Michel team and a Cruyff team? A Shankly team and a Jock Stein one? A Sacchi team and a Rafa team? Or even a Lippi team and an Ancelotti one? etc. A lot of managers formed their approaches to the game in ways not disimilar to others - often learning and taking from them too.

This would definitely rquire some thinking. Would that manager need to stick to a specific formation? Maybe each drafter could be given an 'ultimate' 11 for their chosen manager? Taking the team that is seen as the best they ever created and then trying to replicate it with a different set of players. i.e. Sacchi's would be AC Milan circa late 80/early 90's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_European_Cup_Final), Rafa's would either be Liverpool 07/08 or Valencia 03/04, Fergie's would probably be the (ugh) treble winning team, Helenio Herrera's would be his revelutionary 1964 European Cup winning side (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_European_Cup_Final), and so forth.

I also love the idea of not being allowed to draft any of that manager's former players. I think that adds a whole other dimension to it. So in other words, great work Latenight Surfer 

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

The problem is, "style of play" suited to the manager you get is quite subjective. And are people really not going to vote if you have Messi in a Mourinho team? Or Roy Keane in a Guardiola team? If you have Guardiola then you're at an instant advantage as oppose to someone who has a defensive manager like Mourinho.

[Samie]

Can we add the Samie formation as well?  My teams play a brand of football not known to man yet.  Brendan Rodgers and Kevin Keegan also stole my handbook.

[Elzar]

I think Rosso's draft is more do-able mainly for the reasons SPS gives.

I'd also be willing to help him out running if he needed

[KingLuis10]

The problem is, "style of play" suited to the manager you get is quite subjective. And are people really not going to vote if you have Messi in a Mourinho team? Or Roy Keane in a Guardiola team? If you have Guardiola then you're at an instant advantage as oppose to someone who has a defensive manager like Mourinho.

How would you argue that Messi suits a Mourinho team though? I don't think it would be an issue with in-thread voting.

Deciding which 16 managers to use would be tricky but I don't think that having multiple managers with similar styles would be an issue. We'd set up a few guidelines for each team in advance and with the help of Betty's ultimate 11 idea, each team would have a unique twist.

[Betty Blue]

How would you argue that Messi suits a Mourinho team though? I don't think it would be an issue with in-thread voting.

Deciding which 16 managers to use would be tricky but I don't think that having multiple managers with similar styles would be an issue. We'd set up a few guidelines for each team in advance and with the help of Betty's ultimate 11 idea, each team would have a unique twist.

In-thread voting is definitely the key to this idea. SPS is right, it definitely wouldn't work within a normal vote structure, but in the new vote system it would be our responsibility to not only pick with this in mind but also judge the team on their successful-ness in putting together a side in the mould of their chosen manager. However, I can see a few drafters (*cough* Samie *cough*) getting overexcited at the possibility of a Ronaldinho and picking them in their Mourinho/Clough/Hitzfeld team regardless of their suitability. So I don't know, maybe it would get a bit tricky...

[Samie]

You'd have to be pretty fuckin' stupid to give me a Mourinho based style in the first place. 

[Latenight Surfer]

Can we add the Samie formation as well?  My teams play a brand of football not known to man yet.  Brendan Rodgers and Kevin Keegan also stole my handbook.

I always thought you weren't one from this planet.

[KingLuis10]

Threw some Guardiola guidelines together for a bit of fun, it could work something like this:

You have drawn...

PEP GUARDIOLA




Your task is to build a team which dominates possession and closes down relentlessly. Your team must include:

- a back four including a wing back on one flank and a defensively sound full back capable of stepping inside on the other
- energetic midfielders with good defensive work rate who favour a possession-based game
- a front versatile front three including two inside forwards

Model team: BARCELONA 2008-2009

[Elzar]

Would this be blind, so nobody else knows which manager each player has?

[Betty Blue]

Threw some Guardiola guidelines together for a bit of fun, it could work something like this:

That's really great    Sums up a Guardiola team in the simplest way possible and yet lays it all out clearly. If we can do that with 15 other managers then we're in business.

[Betty Blue]

    You have drawn...

    ARSENE WENGER




   Your task is to build a team which is utterly spineless and will be turned over by any remotely physical team. Your team must include:

    - a first eleven including as many injury prone players as you can possibly find
    - energetic midfielders with no backbone whatsoever who favour a possession-based game
    - a young French forward who appears to have nothing in common with Thierry Henry (*cough* Sonogo *cough*)

[NICHOLLS]

Loving it.

[Betty Blue]

Serious now. Wenger's 'invicibles' would obviously be a great pick -

    You have drawn...

    ARSENE WENGER



   Your task is to build a team in the mould of Wenger's early years at Arsenal by bringing together a side with both a distinct and exciting style of play, while also posessing the ability to play at the rougher side of the game when needed. Your team must include:

    - a centre-back pairing that includes one man-mountain and one more technically gifted player, with two attacking fullbacks on either side.
    - One tough tackling box-to-box midfielder (who is no stranger to the referee's book) and two technically skilled wide forwards who prefer to cut inside rather than go out wide.
    - a forward line which includes both a second striker and a forward who is not only capable of running the line himself but also unselfish in his ability to create goals for those around him

Arsenal circa 2003/04, AKA Wenger's Invincibles

Just a draft. I'm sure we could describe an early Wenger side a little more succinctly than that.

Anyway, it just occured to me that we could actually set sanctions for any drafter who goes against their picking criteria. i.e. If a Mourinho side picks Messi than at the end of the draft he will be removed from the team replaced with a sheep   

[KingLuis10]

Serious now. Wenger's 'invicibles' would obviously be a great pick -

Just a draft. I'm sure we could describe an early Wenger side a little more succinctly than that.

Anyway, it just occured to me that we could actually set sanctions for any drafter who goes against their picking criteria. i.e. If a Mourinho side picks Messi than at the end of the draft he will be removed from the team replaced with a sheep   

Love it 

I'm up for putting this together, we can either do it after this one's over or after Rosso's draft (another great idea) if people prefer a sheep draft. Just need to decide a list of 16 managers now...

[RossoBianchi]

Now exclusively into the mix...

DAVID MOYES



Your unenviable task is to build a team that never won anything, but are winners all the same. Think 'Dogs of War', think industrious and direct, think 'Big Felly', but don't even think of those hateful bastards from Villarreal in 2005 that robbed the Champions League of Lee Carsley and Marcus Bent. Los Bastardos as they are affectionately known in Casa Moyes to this day.

What we want to see is an embodiment of Moyes' team from his time at Goodison Park spanning a (in)glorious decade, which evolved over time in a number of ways but stayed true to its principles throughout.

- A fairly defensive team, full of running and commitment.
- An honest right full-back (Hibbert/P Neville) that's usually dependable, but uncomfortable in the final third
- A left full-back that takes set pieces and likes to provide the team's attacking thrust down the left. He would have fucking loved Andy Hinchcliffe.
- A right-footer and left-footer at the back, i.e Yobo and Lescott, or Jagielka and Distin. Stoppers by nature, not ball-playing defenders.
- Wide men with a bit of flair who like to come inside and link-up attacks - we're thinking more Pienaar and Arteta than Kilbane and Steve Watson.
- Centre-mids that lack any creative spark but who gives a shit when there are second balls to be won.
- A second-striker not in the Bergkamp or Zola mode but more akin to Cahill and Fellaini - players that are physical, good in the air, and generally make a right bloody nuisance of themselves.
- Wee Davey liked his strikers to have power and physique... think Duncan Ferguson, Marcus Bent, Louis Saha, Kevin Campbell, James Beattie... brawn over brains.

[Chakan]

Can I be in this?

Aren't you cup tied?

[Hazell]

Aren't you cup tied?

Nah, I'm the Jordon Ibe of RAWK.

[Betty Blue]

 

[Prof]

With the Managers' Draft, could each manager start with their model team, and play swapsies with everyone else to end up with 11 different players?

It could be carnage 

[Elzar]

If the manager draft is a snake one, I say we do that after Rosso's.

Some people can't join in due to the hourly change, and we have done a few snakes lately

[Elzar]

Before we start a new draft, we need to get these voting systems sorted.

We were obviously going to lose votes, but why aren't we even getting 10 votes in each? There is over 10 people participating in the draft that aren't arsed to just write a short sentence. Maybe it shows their lack of ability to judge the teams, or maybe it shows they just vote for people they like instead of looking at the teams. Obviously not everyone can get on and weigh it up and write it up in every thread, as not everyone has as much free time as others, but some haven't made an effort at all, even for the 3 day vote we had in the first thread.

Do we just stick to the polls and people will have to accept losing? After all, it's not always the team that's expected to win that gets the win in sport!

[Chakan]

I think the polls that only show the results once they expire is the way to go. That way no-one can fudge the results to suit themselves.

[Melbred]

I think the polls that only show the results once they expire is the way to go. That way no-one can fudge the results to suit themselves.

If that's an option, then it's the only way to go, and probably something that should have been implemented a while back. I knew we'd lose votes, but actually surprised that only half of the participants in the draft can put a sentence together. How can you put so much time into assembling a side, only to disappear when you're asked to write a sentence to justify your vote? Beyond me.

[Chakan]

If that's an option, then it's the only way to go, and probably something that should have been implemented a while back. I knew we'd lose votes, but actually surprised that only half of the participants in the draft can put a sentence together. How can you put so much time into assembling a side, only to disappear when you're asked to write a sentence to justify your vote? Beyond me.

I think it's the 3rd option when creating a poll (just checked)

"Only show the results after the poll has expired"

Probably best option really.

[Elzar]

People can only see the results after they have voted anyway can't they?

[Chakan]

People can only see the results after they have voted anyway can't they?

I'm not sure to be honest. We can do a test run and see?

[Elzar]

I'm not sure to be honest. We can do a test run and see?

I've never been able to see who is winning each game until I have voted.

If people want to vote for a certain person to benefit themselves, or because they don't want someone to win, then they will. Not much we can do about that.

[Chakan]

I've never been able to see who is winning each game until I have voted.

If people want to vote for a certain person to benefit themselves, or because they don't want someone to win, then they will. Not much we can do about that.

Yeah but people won't know that 1 vote is needed to win a draft or even it up for pelanties, or whatever. You can vote for whoever but you can't really "influence" the voting so to speak.

[Melbred]

Might still be worth not showing the results at all until the poll actually expires anyhow.

[Chakan]

Might still be worth not showing the results at all until the poll actually expires anyhow.

That's what i'm saying, no-one knows the results until the time expires.

[Betty Blue]

I was thinking we should possibly experiment with different voting systems from draft to draft. So this one has been in-thread voting, the next one could be the "blind" voting that Chakan's referring to, and then we could try Prof's tribunal voting idea. That way we won't all run out of steam either. I mean, I really like in-thread voting as a concept, but I don't think we can always all have the time to vote in every thread. Especially if we continue at the rate of draft-making that we have of late.

[Betty Blue]

That's what i'm saying, no-one knows the results until the time expires.

I wonder if the poll starter would even be able to see the progress? It would be quite fascinating to try out in any case.