Topic: A Song of Ice and Fire general thread: BOOK AND SHOW spoilers galore

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Was on Youtube passing the time before the game starts and came across this video.

Interesting viewing and does make me wonder about Littlefinger, there is another video floating around on Youtube with the theory that Littlefinger is the actual protagonist of GoT.

Not buying that,he is off chasing Aliens.

[RedSince86]

Alt Shift X new video today.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/A3iWCi7yYSc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/A3iWCi7yYSc</a>

[jillcwhomever]

There seems to be rumours that it could be this year that the next George RR Martin book on Westeros is released. (Yes, I know we've had that before!) He has already hinted in interviews that the show's ending was one ending but not his. So the questions are, what would you like to see happen? What do you think will happen? I read another theory that Daenerys will not make Westeros until the final book, as she will travel Asshai first.

Time for some predictions.   

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

I wonder if the shows ending has put people off the final 2 books. I'll read it either way but hopefully it's very different. Obviously there's many more characters in the books. Need a catch up to make predictions

[jillcwhomever]

I wonder if the shows ending has put people off the final 2 books. I'll read it either way but hopefully it's very different. Obviously there's many more characters in the books. Need a catch up to make predictions

I don't have much time to read books, but I download on audible. Just listening to A Clash of Kings now, I will listen to them just to see what the differences are.

[jooneyisdagod]

I wonder if the shows ending has put people off the final 2 books. I'll read it either way but hopefully it's very different. Obviously there's many more characters in the books. Need a catch up to make predictions

It has definitely ruined my interest. The last few seasons of the show really left a bad taste in my mouth to the point where I just stopped caring. 

[UntouchableLuis]

I'll definitely be reading this if it comes out this year - will believe it when I see it!

The books will go in a much better direction IMO. Two subplots not included in the show which I'm intrigued about are:

Spoiler

Lady Stoneheart and the return of Aegon Targaryen

[close]

Will have to re-read Dance with Dragons at some point.

[jillcwhomever]

I'll definitely be reading this if it comes out this year - will believe it when I see it!

The books will go in a much better direction IMO. Two subplots not included in the show which I'm intrigued about are:

Spoiler

Lady Stoneheart and the return of Aegon Targaryen

[close]

Will have to re-read Dance with Dragons at some point.

Spoiler

How is Aegon Targaryen coming back?

[close]

[UntouchableLuis]

Spoiler

How is Aegon Targaryen coming back?

[close]

Massive spoiler revealed so don't read if you don't want to know:

Spoiler

did you not read Dance with Dragons? He's revealed to be 'Young Griff' and Varys tells a Lanniester at the end that Aegon never died as a baby during Robert's Rebellion- he was swapped with another baby and survived. He's apparently been training to take back the throne all these years.

[close]

[jillcwhomever]

Massive spoiler revealed so don't read if you don't want to know:

Spoiler

did you not read Dance with Dragons? He's revealed to be 'Young Griff' and Varys tells a Lanniester at the end that Aegon never died as a baby during Robert's Rebellion- he was swapped with another baby and survived. He's apparently been training to take back the throne all these years.

[close]

Spoiler

I am only on A Clash of Kings, as I decided to watch the series before reading the books. But I do look at a lot of fan videos and now you mention it, I had heard of that one. It will be interesting to see how differently he ends it overall. I just hope the new book does arrive shortly.

[close]

[UntouchableLuis]

Spoiler

I am only on A Clash of Kings, as I decided to watch the series before reading the books. But I do look at a lot of fan videos and now you mention it, I had heard of that one. It will be interesting to see how differently he ends it overall. I just hope the new book does arrive shortly.

[close]

If George can't finish this in isolation for months I dont think he ever will.

[redan]

The TV show has had the opposite effect for me. The last two series were so utterly dreadful that I can’t wait to read the books so I can get the proper endings and erase the shitshow which was GOT from my mind

[jillcwhomever]

The TV show has had the opposite effect for me. The last two series were so utterly dreadful that I can’t wait to read the books so I can get the proper endings and erase the shitshow which was GOT from my mind

While I would agree, the last series was not one I enjoyed that much, there is still plenty that I like and admire about the rest of it. The problem was once the book material ran out, it became more of a challenge to develop the show with how it was initially written. But I am intrigued to see what differences Martin will take in terms of direction. I don't even mind Dany going down, providing it's written in a believable way and consistent way.

[UntouchableLuis]

Tweet from GRRM:

I have to confess, after half a year of pandemic, I am showing signs of cabin fever. If nothing else, the enforced isolation has helped me write. I am spending long hours every day on THE WINDS OF WINTER, and making steady progress. https://t.co/i0DRw51PC7

----

That should mean it could be ready in a few years then.

[Redcap]

Tweet from GRRM:

I have to confess, after half a year of pandemic, I am showing signs of cabin fever. If nothing else, the enforced isolation has helped me write. I am spending long hours every day on THE WINDS OF WINTER, and making steady progress. https://t.co/i0DRw51PC7

----

That should mean it could be ready in a few years then.

May I remind everyone:

https://mashable.com/article/george-r-r-martin-new-zealand-jail-winds-of-winter/

Unlikely this convention will go ahead, however.

If he doesn't get it done this year he's gotta be confronting the strong probability that he won't finish the series.

Update: https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/george-rr-martin-winds-of-winter-release-date-game-of-thrones-1234647456/

He now says 2021.

hahahahaha

[Shankly998]

I'm thankful for the TV show as badly as they cocked up the ending, at least they finished the story and I can live in peace now knowing how it ends. GRRM will never finish the books I cared about that at one point but far past that now.

[Lastrador]

Fuck the fat fuck, he can shove it.

[BER]

It only took a global pandemic for him to knuckle down and do some real work on a book already five years "overdue", and it still sounds years away. Just bemused at this stage, if he hates writing it so much why not just bring in a team of ghost writers to help get it done, if only to rid himself of the burden?

[UntouchableLuis]

I'm thankful for the TV show as badly as they cocked up the ending, at least they finished the story and I can live in peace now knowing how it ends. GRRM will never finish the books I cared about that at one point but far past that now.

It can't end like that in the books. I think I could even write a better end than Bran randomly becoming King and the hero who saved everyone from a tyrant, mental, dragon controlling Queen being exiled to the Wall to fight fuck knows what.

[Shankly998]

It can't end like that in the books. I think I could even write a better end than Bran randomly becoming King and the hero who saved everyone from a tyrant, mental, dragon controlling Queen being exiled to the Wall to fight fuck knows what.

I think it will be exactly the same but how it gets there will be vastly different, in isolation I don't have a problem with the ending but a big problem with how they arrived at it. Bran won't be king because he has the best story but because he's no longer really human and thus isn't corruptible as others would be which will be explained better in the books. Jon will still kill Dan and Dany's descent into madness will be more gradual rather than completely out the blue as in the TV series. It was a happy ending for Jon he wasn't going to fight anything it was their way of giving him his freedom by the back door. Of course that assumes GRRM manages to finish the books which I don't think will happen.

[Sangria]

I think it will be exactly the same but how it gets there will be vastly different, in isolation I don't have a problem with the ending but a big problem with how they arrived at it. Bran won't be king because he has the best story but because he's no longer really human and thus isn't corruptible as others would be which will be explained better in the books. Jon will still kill Dan and Dany's descent into madness will be more gradual rather than completely out the blue as in the TV series. It was a happy ending for Jon he wasn't going to fight anything it was their way of giving him his freedom by the back door. Of course that assumes GRRM manages to finish the books which I don't think will happen.

All of that stuff is actually thematically hinted at in the books. The lead up is where the TV show fecked up.

[Redcap]

Fuck the fat fuck, he can shove it.

I suspect most, like you, are well past the point of caring. It won't be long before even the end of GoT is so far in the rear view that we'll just forget about ever giving a fuck.

[Henry Gale]

No way on this earth he finishes the story. May squeeze 1 more book as he's been writing it for 8 years but no way he will do another two.

[Dubred]

I suspect most, like you, are well past the point of caring. It won't be long before even the end of GoT is so far in the rear view that we'll just forget about ever giving a fuck.

This.  I think the longer he leaves it after the show, the less and less people give a shit.

Not that he probably needs the money, but if he does eventually finish it, many who would have bought the book probably won't be arsed

[RedSince86]

Fuck the fat fuck, he can shove it.

This 1000%

Wasting years writing bloody history books on the Targaryans and the history of fucking Westeros, that could have been done after he finished the two books.

I'm past caring now, it's never getting written and i don't think he cares, pisses me off when he leaks a chapter, the hairy tease.

I can see someone in about 10 years after he's passed away and his publisher gets someone to finish the novels, the same way they do with the Jack Ryan novels from Tom Clancy that Mark Greaney does.

[El Lobo]

If he doesn’t finish them, maybe get someone else to do it. Just echo the tv series, which ended perfectly.

[Hendollama]

If he doesn’t finish them, maybe get someone else to do it. Just echo the tv series, which ended perfectly.

[ChrisOH]

Some people in this thread are so entitled. It's art, you get what you're given by the artist. He didn't demand you buy the previous books.

For what it's worth, he's obviously branched the story out so far that Winds of Winter is the attempt of pulling it all back together. Because of this, don't be surprised if it's a double book of some sort. It should also make the last book more streamlined to write.

[Redcap]

Some people in this thread are so entitled. It's art, you get what you're given by the artist. He didn't demand you buy the previous books.

For what it's worth, he's obviously branched the story out so far that Winds of Winter is the attempt of pulling it all back together. Because of this, don't be surprised if it's a double book of some sort. It should also make the last book more streamlined to write.

Without allowing myself to be drawn into a debate about whether ASOIAF is art or not, I think you could equally argue that people are frustrated because they've cared. That's a massive compliment to GRRM's writing. But just as we didn't buy his previous books because he made us, we can choose not to buy his remaining books, because people are caring less and less all the time.

A hell of a lot of water has passed under the bridge since the date of TWoW was even on the radar as a remote concern.

[ChrisOH]

Without allowing myself to be drawn into a debate about whether ASOIAF is art or not, I think you could equally argue that people are frustrated because they've cared. That's a massive compliment to GRRM's writing. But just as we didn't buy his previous books because he made us, we can choose not to buy his remaining books, because people are caring less and less all the time.

A hell of a lot of water has passed under the bridge since the date of TWoW was even on the radar as a remote concern.

By all means be frustrated, it was more aimed at people having a personal go at him.

[jillcwhomever]

This 1000%

Wasting years writing bloody history books on the Targaryans and the history of fucking Westeros, that could have been done after he finished the two books.

I'm past caring now, it's never getting written and i don't think he cares, pisses me off when he leaks a chapter, the hairy tease.

I can see someone in about 10 years after he's passed away and his publisher gets someone to finish the novels, the same way they do with the Jack Ryan novels from Tom Clancy that Mark Greaney does.

He's a writer and this is what happens when you write. It happens to me all the time, you start on one story and its full scale ahead everything comes out in a rush, but those are the good moments when everything is free and flowing. I think when you write you have negative moments far more than the good ones and by that I mean you dry up with both ideas and ways of expression. It happens to me all the time, I often end up working on three different stories, mainly due to the fact that I can't contain the original standard. That often means going off and working on another story is a good thing, as it gives you time away from the story where your motivation has flopped. I'm sure it will get finished, but people need to realise that writing is not easy and you ebb and flow through the whole concept, which means its not always possible to end it each time to a set time frame. If it was everyone would write as it would be easy.