Topic: Liverpool 1 v Everton 1 (Salah 42’)

[WillG.LFC]

Unfortunately for Lovren, he does keep making them. Like I said, I like him and have defended him, but it's difficult to do so when you keep seeing similar mistakes from him regardless of how much/little pressure we are under as a side.

Ultimately these errors clearly mean that he shouldn't be a first-choice defender for a club with our ambitions. We know that, he probably knows that, hopefully Klopp does. In the meantime I hope he can recover from this because, particularly aerially, he's an important player for us. Watching Klavan under the high ball yesterday was fucking painful.

id imagine that's the case as why else was klopp so keen on vvd this summer. He's an attacking manager so it makes sense to build the squad to your strengths. These next windows is hopefully when defensive players are bought

[wige]

They have belief and patience. But were frustrated that we didn't batter Everton like we should have done.

I just hope it doesn't bite us on the arse later in the season.

Some of these lads have been going to the game since the 60s - who are you to tell them they shouldn't be going to the game?

Absolutely no-one. Same as them.

Klopp's our manager. The players give their all. They're all someone.

[Brain Potter]

Initially from where I was sat it did look like he’d pushed Calvert-Lewin in the back but the more replays I watch it looks like a manufactured dive. Contact is not a foul. One thing I can’t stand is the mantra that contact entitles you to go down. It’s only a foul if it impedes you. It just wasn’t a penalty.
On another point they were the worst Everton side I’ve seen at Anfield. Dreadful. But at 1-0 you run the risk of exactly what happened yesterday. Anyway I’m very happy with the way we are playing and can see progression. Unlike EFC who have more of that shite to look forward to.

[wige]

What Suarez have you been watching mate? Seriously?

Pretty confident in what I'm saying here, but happy to concede if proven otherwise - I remember seeing a fair few goals when he's waited for his partner to catch up to square, or play the unselfish pass, even more so once he moved to Barca.

Regardless - the point stands. It's ALWAYS, IMO, the wrong choice to shoot in the situation, even if you score (I know that sounds stupid) but they should always pass. That equals a guaranteed goal. The shot is always the worst option. You can see elite coaches agree with this - watch how City play, how barca did/do, how any manager goes fucking ballistic if people don't pass.

[Crosby Nick]

Shall we debate whether Salah’s little shove on Martina was a foul instead?

[nico 8]

Pretty confident in what I'm saying here, but happy to concede if proven otherwise - I remember seeing a fair few goals when he's waited for his partner to catch up to square, or play the unselfish pass, even more so once he moved to Barca.

Regardless - the point stands. It's ALWAYS, IMO, the wrong choice to shoot in the situation, even if you score (I know that sounds stupid) but they should always pass. That equals a guaranteed goal. The shot is always the worst option. You can see elite coaches agree with this - watch how City play, how barca did/do, how any manager goes fucking ballistic if people don't pass.

Is correct on both counts- Suarez and the square pass. Selfishness has nothing to with it. It is stupidity and lack of intelligence. My son at 7 many years ago knew that rule. Criminal and costly. As much as I love Mane- he is prone to inexplicable moments of error. His handball against Sunderland springs to mind.

[Macphisto80]

Shall we debate whether Salah’s little shove on Martina was a foul instead?

No. He didn't fly like he was poleaxed with a sledge hammer, therefor, not a foul. Plus we scored. Plus no Lovren.

[nico 8]

Shall we debate whether Salah’s little shove on Martina was a foul instead?

I thought so and made the point at the time to a mate. Salah gets a shove in his back first hence his reaction. Nothing given at the time- rightly so but shows the ref's inconsistency. Wasn't that Klopp's point.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Yes, and he retaliates by flinging his left hand half-way into his back in a forward motion. It's not enough for a penalty in my view, but that doesn't mean it's not naive or clumsy.

Flinging his arm 

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Flinging his arm 

How would you describe his movement with his left hand?

[Funky_Gibbons]

How would you describe his movement with his left hand?

It touches CL’s, that’s about it.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

It touches CL’s, that’s about it.

It's this movement which makes Calvert-Lewin think to fall over. He doesn't fall over when backing into Lovren like a true cheat would do; it's as he is moving away having felt a push by Lovren that he thinks to do so.

It's also this movement which makes the referee think Lovren has fouled him and Calvert-Lewin has legitimately gone down.

I'd suggest it's more than a touch for both of those things to happen, rightly or wrongly. You are being obtuse.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

There's no point arguing about the penalty. The player jumped into him. He did have his hand up. Some people at the ground were adamant that it was a deffo penno - some people totally disagreed.

It's been given anyway. The player should be banned for 2 games for simulation, but it won't happen.

West Brom at home next. Stuff them and things will look a bit rosier.

[24/7]

Who are you and what have you done with Andy?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Who are you and what have you done with Andy?

Ha ha. I've calmed down now. Had my rant. That game is gone. Let's get onto the next one and get the three points.

I'm just gutted we never got to sing the Mane Merry Christmas song - that's probably why he was desperate for the goal.

[nico 8]

It's this movement which makes Calvert-Lewin think to fall over. He doesn't fall over when backing into Lovren like a true cheat would do; it's as he is moving away having felt a push by Lovren that he thinks to do so.

It's also this movement which makes the referee think Lovren has fouled him and Calvert-Lewin has legitimately gone down.

I'd suggest it's more than a touch for both of those things to happen, rightly or wrongly. You are being obtuse.

Not sure that is right- does he not actually bounce off Lovren. He was never in control  of his movement to go down when he feels the touch in his back. If that is what he intended, there would have been a delay in the fall.

[nico 8]

There's no point arguing about the penalty. The player jumped into him. He did have his hand up. Some people at the ground were adamant that it was a deffo penno - some people totally disagreed.

It's been given anyway. The player should be banned for 2 games for simulation, but it won't happen.

West Brom at home next. Stuff them and things will look a bit rosier.

Agreed- need to move on. Not going to change anything.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Not sure that is right- does he not actually bounce off Lovren. He was never in control  of his movement to go down when he feels the touch in his back. If that is what he intended, there would have been a delay in the fall.

He bounces off Lovren yeah, so you're right that he's off-balance, but split-seconds later feels the slight shove in his back and goes down because of it. (Watch his left leg: it's going to plant, but as a result of the contact, which is line with his left leg, it (probably deliberately) unbalances so that he falls to ground.)

Knew exactly what he was doing. Unfortunately the referee didn't.

[Fiasco]

A small side came to Anfield for a draw and they got it. They were somewhat fortuitous, I don't think it was anywhere near a penalty and Calvert-Lewis double twist with pike conned the referee (his was no worse or better than Niasse's a few weeks ago, I wonder if he'll face retrospective action?)

Lovren gave the referee a decision to make by engaging though and that is so fucking frustrating. More street smart and less rash players deal with that situation better. It was a derby game in the snow, a long ball over the top into the goal where the Everton fans had just celebrated a corner like it was a winner, a great sell by Calvert-Lewin and what do you know? The referee gives it. It is football, it happens, but the game should have been over at that point because that was one of the most one-sided games of football I've watched in a long time.

Ah well, we move on. We have games coming thick an fast and a chance for revenge against them in the cup in a few weeks. We've just got a decent Champions League draw and we're on a great run of form on the whole. We'll be fine.

[Redsnappa]

I think you have to give the Ev some credit ... that new lad Pawson had a fucking cracking game for them.

[Gili Gulu]

If we had been given that penalty to make the score 1-0, I don't think "brave" would have been one of the words Allardyce would have used to describe the referee.

[Fordy]

If we're all honest if we would of played our best team we would of won this hands down and we should of rested players against West Brom.

Our best midfield doesn't include Henderson now that's for sure.

We're all disappointed because we dropped 2 points but we love Klopp and believe in him.

However, he needs to stop having faith in players that won't take this club forward.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

If we're all honest if we would of have played our best team we would of have won this hands down and we should of have rested players against West Brom.

[Chakan]

If we're all honest if we would of played our best team we would of won this hands down and we should of rested players against West Brom.

Our best midfield doesn't include Henderson now that's for sure.

We're all disappointed because we dropped 2 points but we love Klopp and believe in him.

However, he needs to stop having faith in players that won't take this club forward.

Well since we're being honest, the team that got put out at the beginning of the game should have been 2-0 up at half time. So not sure what more you wanted.

[poopscoop]

A small side came to Anfield for a draw and they got it. They were somewhat fortuitous, I don't think it was anywhere near a penalty and Calvert-Lewis double twist with pike conned the referee (his was no worse or better than Niasse's a few weeks ago, I wonder if he'll face retrospective action?)

Lovren gave the referee a decision to make by engaging though and that is so fucking frustrating. More street smart and less rash players deal with that situation better. It was a derby game in the snow, a long ball over the top into the goal where the Everton fans had just celebrated a corner like it was a winner, a great sell by Calvert-Lewin and what do you know? The referee gives it. It is football, it happens, but the game should have been over at that point because that was one of the most one-sided games of football I've watched in a long time.

Ah well, we move on. We have games coming thick an fast and a chance for revenge against them in the cup in a few weeks. We've just got a decent Champions League draw and we're on a great run of form on the whole. We'll be fine.

Yes, c'est la vie. Everton have had their cup final now and we move on to the next mid table Prem team on our inexorable rise to greatness.

[Fordy]

Well since we're being honest, the team that got put out at the beginning of the game should have been 2-0 up at half time. So not sure what more you wanted.

Yes, Mane is to blame for us not making it 2-0 and he is more to blame than the ref but we need to be playing our best team against Everton and Man Utd.

[Chakan]

Yes, Mane is to blame for us not making it 2-0 and he is more to blame than the ref but we need to be playing our best team against Everton and Man Utd.

Is Mane part of our best team?

[norecat]

Jurgen's lineup surprised me. Considering how potent the attacking 4 are we need to capitalise on their form. The derby is a massive game irrespective of league position. Lovren needs to cut out the brain fart moments. Touch a striker and you risk conceding a penalty. He is long enough on the go to realise this.

[Miltonred]

Created enough chances to win three games so I don't buy that team selection was the problem here. Needed one more clinical finish to kill the game, and one less daft push to prevent an equalizer.
Not sure what people are seeing to call it a dive, but that is a stonewall penalty in my opinion and Lovren makes a big mistake putting his hand in the players back, whether he shoves or doesn't.

Lucky Everton. Move on, beat West Brom.

[newterp]

Is Mane part of our best team?

He’s gotta mean starting Firmino and Coutinho in addition to salah and Mane.

[Chakan]

He’s gotta mean starting Firmino and Coutinho in addition to salah and Mane.

Oh I know what he means, since we should have been 2-0 up i'm asking what more he wanted.

[B0151?]

I think the idea Klopp took the game lightly is so silly. He thought it was going to be a scrappy game and put out a team to dominate. It was no coincidence 4 English players came in (rightly or wrongly).

Here is what Klopp said earlier in the week (about Henderson being rested against Moscow):

"You need the players on the pitch who 100 per cent understand what a derby is about."

So what happened? We out-fought them and did dominate. They couldn't even counter, couldn't even out 2 passes together. The changes Klopp made had the effect that he wanted them to. These tactics haven't even came out of the blue, we've been playing tighter at Anfield all season (Wednesday feels like one of the only times we've let loose). It's why we've conceded so few here. And it really should have been another cleansheet.

I think there is a disappointment because we know that we're capable of spanking a shite team like Everton (and people assume we would have 'but for#) but Klopp put out a team to kill them off, and that's what it actually did. For sure he will be frustrated that we didn't create more clear chances or finish some of the ones we had, but the game plan was a sound one in my eyes. I think the faith he's shown in the squad will absolutely reap rewards as the season advances.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Well since we're being honest, the team that got put out at the beginning of the game should have been 2-0 up at half time. So not sure what more you wanted.

To be 2-0 at half time.

[Chakan]

To be 2-0 at half time.

So i'll ask you then, is Mane part of our strongest starting 11?

[Fordy]

Is Mane part of our best team?

Yeas but you play all the so called Fab Four and Can plus Gini.

Lallana if fit.

It was a poor decision not to play our strongest team against Everton. Rest against West Brom but not Everton.

[Chakan]

Yeas but you play all the so called Fab Four and Can plus Gini.

Lallana if fit.

It was a poor decision not to play our strongest team against Everton. Rest against West Brom but not Everton.

Why was it a poor decision? The team was going into the break 2-0 ahead had it not been for Mane' so again, i'm not sure what more you wanted.

[Curtisinho]

I'm 100% with Klopp and the officials absolutely need to be called out. I mean, I don't hold that penalty wholly responsible for our dropping of points (realistically we had enough chances where it shouldn't have mattered, and I knew something like that was coming when we couldn't bury one), but if you look at the bad calls solely at their face value after the game is over we're what...8 points down now because of terrible calls/non-calls? That's ridiculous. I like to think that the officiating evens out over a season and try to look at the difficult job objectively but we've been absolutely hosed so far this season.

Moreso I'm much more behind the concept of what Klopp is saying. You have a team out there attacking and trying to win the game for the full 95 minutes with 80% possession creating scoring chances and so on, and at the first (and only) possible opportunity to give Everton a break they give it? Why does the officiating constantly favour the underdog/defending team? How many times have we had to watch our forwards get absolutely mugged in the box with no recourse? Why are teams that show that 'tough mentality', defend deep and drape themselves all over attackers not punished with soft penalties like these? There needs to be some kind of culture shift because it's extremely frustrating.

[kennedy81]

I'm 100% with Klopp and the officials absolutely need to be called out. I mean, I don't hold that penalty wholly responsible for our dropping of points (realistically we had enough chances where it shouldn't have mattered, and I knew something like that was coming when we couldn't bury one), but if you look at the bad calls solely at their face value after the game is over we're what...8 points down now because of terrible calls/non-calls? That's ridiculous. I like to think that the officiating evens out over a season and try to look at the difficult job objectively but we've been absolutely hosed so far this season.

Moreso I'm much more behind the concept of what Klopp is saying. You have a team out there attacking and trying to win the game for the full 95 minutes with 80% possession creating scoring chances and so on, and at the first (and only) possible opportunity to give Everton a break they give it? Why does the officiating constantly favour the underdog/defending team? How many times have we had to watch our forwards get absolutely mugged in the box with no recourse? Why are teams that show that 'tough mentality', defend deep and drape themselves all over attackers not punished with soft penalties like these? There needs to be some kind of culture shift because it's extremely frustrating.

Yeah it was interesting to hear Klopp say that. I'm not sure I agree with him as I believe the ref should just make the decision in isolation for what it is, and not the larger context of the game, or who deserves it more.
Still, it was an interesting insight into how much he values the attacking/entertainment aspect of football and how he maybe feels that teams who play like that don't get the credit, or lucky breaks, that they deserve.

[B0151?]

I just don't get the idea 'he's touched him so he's given the ref a decision'. Players always have their hands on eachother. Martina has his arms up on Salah before he gets put on his arse, Gueye has his hands on him before he curls it in. Neither are challenges, just normal contact. What Lovren did was very instinctive and normal and no hint of foul contact if lad doesn't go down.

[Chakan]

I just don't get the idea 'he's touched him so he's given the ref a decision'. Players always have their hands on eachother. Martina has his arms up on Salah before he gets put on his arse, Gueye has his hands on him before he curls it in. Neither are challenges, just normal contact.

The rule only applies to Lovren apparently.