Author Topic: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'  (Read 29809 times)

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #520 on: October 25, 2020, 09:05:45 pm »
Going back to this delayed flag thing I agree with all those who say that the players continue fully committed and then an injury could easily result from a period of play when in fact the ball is technically dead. Just raise the fucking flag.

Have to agree. If they are not going to flag then there is no point to them. They are relying on VAR to correct the situation but does VAR check it if it doesn't end in a goal but a throw in or a corner instead (like in the Aston Villa game) - especially in a close call situation.
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Offline Barrow Shaun

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #521 on: October 25, 2020, 09:38:19 pm »
I've got an idea about VAR, it's possibly nonsense but please bear with me.

The game is about football, footballers and is for the fans' entertainment right? Tons of commentators/posters on various media have said it's ruining the game, right?
So, why don't we use the technology to improve the officials officiating the game?

Go back to the guy with the whistle and the dudes with the flags but use VAR to scrutinise THEM. You could even easily devise a promotion/demotion system where, say, a ref gets demoted to a Championship game because he missed something blatantly obvious, or an assistant gets promoted for consistently performing well, no issues, for example.

Fottball is then back to being silly officialdom-less, and we know the officials in any given game have earned the right to be there based on past performance.
Use VAR as a tool to judge the competency of OFFICIALS, and thereafter their allocated games. I think we're doing it all wrong at the moment. Football and football people should be dictating VAR use, not VAR dictating football.
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #522 on: October 25, 2020, 09:40:38 pm »
Games like this win you the league.

Hopefully...finally..our 12 month wait will finally end.

 ;D

Offline Beninger

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #523 on: October 25, 2020, 11:53:40 pm »
Fabinho makes a great tackle on the edge of the box easing the ball away from the player and somehow it's firstly a foul the VAR steps in and declares it a penalty. The game is fucked.
It seems to me, that if that challenge takes place clearly in the box, the ref doesn’t blow his whistle. He determines it to be outside of the box, but instead of looking to even see if it’s a foul, VAR only looks at where it took place not whether it was a foul or not.

We all know that, right or wrong, refs have a different standard of what constitutes a foul when it’s in the box.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2020, 11:56:21 pm by Beninger »
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #524 on: October 26, 2020, 12:48:47 am »
When you have MOTD pundits saying it wasn't a foul, you know things aren't right. VAR is a shitshow which is getting worse instead of better. It is basically a lucky dip, the guy in the office could literally choose any action to take when an incident happens.

It does show us that we need to do our best to take it out of hands of those twats - Fab shouldn't be jumping in around that area when it isn't do or die. Even when we concede, we have to react better. It took us most of the half to recover our game let alone the score.

At least we sorted ourselves out at HT, we slowly took control and Jota really came into the game. Mo deserved to score that but just went a bit to early. Think he was entitled to go for the chance at the end, anything else is mostly shitstirring by the media.

Overall, a good weekend so far, a few goals from being top so things are looking up, just need to get some rest and a couple more lads back.

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #525 on: October 26, 2020, 02:16:23 am »
VAR is a joke.
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #526 on: October 26, 2020, 04:21:33 am »
I've got an idea about VAR, it's possibly nonsense but please bear with me.

The game is about football, footballers and is for the fans' entertainment right? Tons of commentators/posters on various media have said it's ruining the game, right?
So, why don't we use the technology to improve the officials officiating the game?

Go back to the guy with the whistle and the dudes with the flags but use VAR to scrutinise THEM. You could even easily devise a promotion/demotion system where, say, a ref gets demoted to a Championship game because he missed something blatantly obvious, or an assistant gets promoted for consistently performing well, no issues, for example.

Fottball is then back to being silly officialdom-less, and we know the officials in any given game have earned the right to be there based on past performance.
Use VAR as a tool to judge the competency of OFFICIALS, and thereafter their allocated games. I think we're doing it all wrong at the moment. Football and football people should be dictating VAR use, not VAR dictating football.
Don't call us, we'll call you (though we won't)  ;)

Also a bugbear of mine: why do people go on about shit refs being demoted to the Championship? Why should the Championship have to put up with a substandard ref?

If they're shite, send them off to get more training; or sack them.
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Offline McrRed

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #527 on: October 26, 2020, 05:33:37 am »
Fuck! Sheffield made it hard for us.

They really did.

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #528 on: October 26, 2020, 07:27:49 am »
Don't call us, we'll call you (though we won't)  ;)

Also a bugbear of mine: why do people go on about shit refs being demoted to the Championship? Why should the Championship have to put up with a substandard ref?

If they're shite, send them off to get more training; or sack them.

They have zero incentive to improve though

Make them accountable. Drag them to the post-match interviews, show them the video of their stupid decisions, ask them why they chose to make that decision. See how quickly they'd improve in order to avoid being embarrassed
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #529 on: October 26, 2020, 08:37:19 am »
Don't call us, we'll call you (though we won't)  ;)

Also a bugbear of mine: why do people go on about shit refs being demoted to the Championship? Why should the Championship have to put up with a substandard ref?

If they're shite, send them off to get more training; or sack them.

I feel like, as with players, every ref has his level. If he's not good enough for the PL, he should get an opportunity in the Championship. If he doesn't cut it there, off to L1 and so on, while the better refs from the lower leagues get a chance in the higher divisions.

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #530 on: October 26, 2020, 08:57:06 am »
I feel like, as with players, every ref has his level. If he's not good enough for the PL, he should get an opportunity in the Championship. If he doesn't cut it there, off to L1 and so on, while the better refs from the lower leagues get a chance in the higher divisions.

We really need a free market for referees. Allow the best leagues to snap up the best refs and pay them a high, performance-focused wage. We're stuck with only English referees who are mostly going to be shit.

If we had 10 of the worlds best we could either do away with VAR or have a much slicker operation with it. It's never going to be perfect, but at the moment it's a shambles.


Also, if we have foreign refs then they're less prone to bias. We're being screwed over Manc officials all the time.
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #531 on: October 26, 2020, 09:09:26 am »
I don’t understand why VAR doesn’t operate like the TMO in rugby where the ref calls for it when he knows something has happen and is unsure of what the right decision is. I believe let the ref ref as they did pre VAR and when like the derby with Pickford they would give a Natural decision. They can go to VAR if they aren’t sure and like TMO VAR could talk through what had happened for the ref to make a final decision.

 The foul on the box wouldn’t have been given if the ref wasn’t waiting for VAR to overturn and correct things or step in with what they think the right decision is. The thing that is wrong with VAR is the overturn the refs decision not support it. Also why have screens to watch the incidents when they won’t/don’t use them. I generally think they are too close to the managers and the refs are intimidated to go over.
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #532 on: October 26, 2020, 09:45:04 am »
Thought the Blades played well in trying to press our backline. Certainly missed VVD's passing ability. Thought Thiago would have been the one needed in such games. Thankfully, we scored the goals. Unfortunate for Salah not to score when his takedown & shot was so good.

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #533 on: October 26, 2020, 09:54:21 am »
I don’t understand why VAR doesn’t operate like the TMO in rugby where the ref calls for it when he knows something has happen and is unsure of what the right decision is. I believe let the ref ref as they did pre VAR and when like the derby with Pickford they would give a Natural decision. They can go to VAR if they aren’t sure and like TMO VAR could talk through what had happened for the ref to make a final decision.

 The foul on the box wouldn’t have been given if the ref wasn’t waiting for VAR to overturn and correct things or step in with what they think the right decision is. The thing that is wrong with VAR is the overturn the refs decision not support it. Also why have screens to watch the incidents when they won’t/don’t use them. I generally think they are too close to the managers and the refs are intimidated to go over.

I agree somewhat as I see officials relying on it too much soon to the point they are not 110% on themselves and they will miss things or be afraid to blow as end up second guessing themselves. Maybe my brain is fried but we seem to have ten times more refereeing issues / sages right now and its totally avoidable.

Anyway here we are chatting about the ref instead of the game which highlights the issue as game discussions should not be about the man in the middle. We are seeing more highlights of the VAR moments than goal moments so those in charge need to get a grip and divert our attention back to a pretty good game where Utd stretched us to a point we had to roll up our sleeves and really get stuck in. A great comeback and a well earned three points, I would not expect anything different against tough opposition.
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Offline Barrow Shaun

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #534 on: October 26, 2020, 10:35:35 am »
..... here we are chatting about the ref instead of the game which highlights the issue as game discussions should not be about the man in the middle. We are seeing more highlights of the VAR moments than goal moments so those in charge need to get a grip and divert our attention back to a pretty good game ....

Exactly that.
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 11:31:23 am by oojason »
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #536 on: October 26, 2020, 11:20:29 am »
https://theathletic.co.uk/2106991/2020/10/03/referee-var-pitchside-monitor-premier-league/

Relevant snippets:

It is, as one well-placed source puts it, “a fait accompli” and is likely to continue to be because of the way the VAR protocol, which was devised and written by David Elleray, IFAB's technical director, works.

According to that protocol, on-field reviews should be mainly used for subjective decisions, such as the intensity of a foul challenge, interference at offside or handball considerations. The Premier League reinforces that message and, in many ways, raises the threshold. “There will be a high bar for VAR intervention on subjective decisions to maintain the pace and intensity of Premier League matches”, it notes in the Premier League’s VAR guidelines.

A cornerstone of VAR is that it will only be used for “clear and obvious errors” or “serious missed incidents”. So the first thing that a referee thinks when the voice in his ear recommends the use of an on-field review is that his original decision was wrong.

It is possible, of course, that a referee will at some point go over to the pitchside monitor and stand by their original decision. By doing so, though, they will be openly casting doubt on the judgment of the VAR’s ability to identify a clear and obvious error.

Here-in lies the problem with VAR application: On non-binary decisions, it's not checking if the correct decision was made, only whether the decision made as an "obvious" error. If it was not "obvious", even if it's incorrect, it won't be overturned.

When your grey area is "could the ref concievably have made an honnest mistake here?" and the answer to that is almost always "Yes", then the system you're putting into place serves only to reinforce incorrect decisions, not correct them.
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Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #537 on: October 26, 2020, 11:37:06 am »
They have zero incentive to improve though

Make them accountable. Drag them to the post-match interviews, show them the video of their stupid decisions, ask them why they chose to make that decision. See how quickly they'd improve in order to avoid being embarrassed

This!  :wellin
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #538 on: October 26, 2020, 11:54:55 am »
Ok, just finished rewatching.

We were good at the back considering the frequence of games and the newness of the lines. Hendo spends a lot of time back there with the 2 full backs pushed on, it's almost a de-facto 3. Heard some shouts during the week of switching to a "real" 3 CB set-up and this is why it won't work. One concern (?) is that both CBs are players that like space to position themselves correctly and are not huge fans of being constantly under pressure. Vs City, this will be tested.

Second reason is we need 3 in the midfield. When Hendo was deep and the full backs were wide, the only player in the midfield was Gini. It was too easy to play through us. We absolutely have to sort this out before City. They will destroy us unless we are compact and filling the midfield. Thiago should be back, we'll have Jones & Milner for the end of the game, we need to fill in the gaps we saw Saturday.

On the penalties:

-Sorry but the Fabinho tackle was a foul. Yes, he got the ball, but he also got the man. That's a foul. If it hadn't resulted in that bizarre fùçkery that gave them a penalty, we'd be telling him to be more careful and nothing else. In addition, it was his third attempt to clear it. Had he just hoiked it into the stand on either of the first 2 attempts we'd not be talking about it. He didn't clear his lines, he fouled his man. The freeze frame BS to decide that half a heel touched the line like in the NFL was a travesty of nitpickery that's ruining the game as much as arm-pit hair and shirt-sleeve offsides. Not wanting to don my foil hat too much, but you feel that a real effort was made to give a penalty.

100% we will get a foul next week (in fact, wasn't there one last week?) in exactly the same conditions and it will be a free, not a penalty.

-Robinson's wasn't under the new rules, however much they might gripe about it.

-Jota took down Berge. Ok, Berge went looking for it but there was contact that stopped Berge getting to the ball and it was almost certainly a penalty. In much the same way that we'd want it given and Man United would almost certainly have been given, it was contact on the player with no attempt to play the ball. Like the Mané one, it doesn't have to be spectacular to be a foul. Anywhere else on the pitch it's a foul, it should have been given.

-And, of course, the foul on Mané at the end was a clear penalty but probably falls into the Salah bag. You could say the ball was going away from him but anywhere else on the pitch there's a whistle for that: Clear contact, from behind, took the man, missed the ball, stopped the attacking player progressing with the ball. Hands down a foul.


And, yes, it was offside, but bloody hell Salah's "goal" was a pearler. The control, turn, shot.... very Dennis Bergkamp altogether.
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Offline LFCEmpire

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #539 on: October 26, 2020, 11:58:05 am »

Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #540 on: October 26, 2020, 12:16:24 pm »

On the penalties:

-Sorry but the Fabinho tackle was a foul. Yes, he got the ball, but he also got the man. That's a foul. If it hadn't resulted in that bizarre fùçkery that gave them a penalty, we'd be telling him to be more careful and nothing else. In addition, it was his third attempt to clear it. Had he just hoiked it into the stand on either of the first 2 attempts we'd not be talking about it. He didn't clear his lines, he fouled his man. The freeze frame BS to decide that half a heel touched the line like in the NFL was a travesty of nitpickery that's ruining the game as much as arm-pit hair and shirt-sleeve offsides. Not wanting to don my foil hat too much, but you feel that a real effort was made to give a penalty.


No chance. You cannot make a sliding tackle without momentum taking you into a player. If you win the ball first and then take the player, without any part of your boot/studs making contact with a players leg, it is simply not a foul.

Unless of course football is now a non-contact sport where any challenge made on a player that results in the other player being touched is regarded a foul?
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Offline Barrow Shaun

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #541 on: October 26, 2020, 12:42:25 pm »
No chance. You cannot make a sliding tackle without momentum taking you into a player. If you win the ball first and then take the player, without any part of your boot/studs making contact with a players leg, it is simply not a foul.

Unless of course football is now a non-contact sport where any challenge made on a player that results in the other player being touched is regarded a foul?

Agree. Never ever a foul.
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #542 on: October 26, 2020, 01:13:50 pm »


Ok, just finished rewatching.

We were good at the back considering the frequence of games and the newness of the lines. Hendo spends a lot of time back there with the 2 full backs pushed on, it's almost a de-facto 3. Heard some shouts during the week of switching to a "real" 3 CB set-up and this is why it won't work. One concern (?) is that both CBs are players that like space to position themselves correctly and are not huge fans of being constantly under pressure. Vs City, this will be tested.

Second reason is we need 3 in the midfield. When Hendo was deep and the full backs were wide, the only player in the midfield was Gini. It was too easy to play through us. We absolutely have to sort this out before City. They will destroy us unless we are compact and filling the midfield. Thiago should be back, we'll have Jones & Milner for the end of the game, we need to fill in the gaps we saw Saturday.



I'm pretty sure we'll play 433 against city, not 4231.

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #543 on: October 26, 2020, 01:33:09 pm »
I still cant get my head around Mane's "offside" against Everton!
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #544 on: October 26, 2020, 01:47:12 pm »
No chance. You cannot make a sliding tackle without momentum taking you into a player. If you win the ball first and then take the player, without any part of your boot/studs making contact with a players leg, it is simply not a foul.

Unless of course football is now a non-contact sport where any challenge made on a player that results in the other player being touched is regarded a foul?

Well there's actually 2 issues here. Firstly is whether it was a foul. You think what you think after multiple replays, the ref sees it once. He sees Fab go through the attacker's foot to get the ball. That's a foul. That was my thought when I saw it live. Now, we can argue about what he hit first, how much of the attacker he got, but a single fast viewing see the defender catch the attacker, that's a foul for the ref.

More importantly, once he's blown it up, even if it's a bad decision, once there's even a debate about whether it's a foul means the ref. is correct to give the foul as in his opinion it is a foul. It's not a clear and obvious error (not how VAR is currently implemented). He went for the ball, got both ball and, at some point in the tackle, man.

I have to repeat that, anywhere else on the pitch where this doesn't result in a bizarre penatly, we don't even have this conversation because no-one is questioning the decision. It's such a common tackle/foul/event/decision.  The only difference here is it somehow resulted in a penalty.

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #545 on: October 26, 2020, 02:06:08 pm »
I have to repeat that, anywhere else on the pitch where this doesn't result in a bizarre penatly, we don't even have this conversation because no-one is questioning the decision. It's such a common tackle/foul/event/decision.  The only difference here is it somehow resulted in a penalty.

But at the same time, we know that referee's generally need "more of a foul" to be committed in order to give a penalty. So, had Mike Dean thought that the "foul" was in the box, there is absolutely no way he would have given it in the same way Berge and Mane didn't get penalties even though they would have 100% got free-kicks for the same level of contact elsewhere on the pitch. And at the same time, there is no way VAR would have overturned the non-award of a penalty as Fabinho got more than enough of the ball for it not to be a clear and obvious error.

Somewhere within that ramble lies a major issue with VAR and with officiating in general. If we'd have gone up the other end and Salah was "fouled" in the same way but comfortably inside the area, the referee wouldn't have given a penalty and nor would VAR. So that's just a microcosm of how unfair and inconsistent the current system is. 
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 02:08:56 pm by LovelyCushionedHeader »
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #546 on: October 26, 2020, 02:15:14 pm »
But at the same time, we know that referee's generally need "more of a foul" to be committed in order to give a penalty. So, had Mike Dean thought that the "foul" was in the box, there is absolutely no way he would have given it in the same way Berge and Mane didn't get penalties even though they would have 100% got free-kicks for the same level of contact elsewhere on the pitch. And at the same time, there is no way VAR would have overturned the non-award of a penalty as Fabinho got more than enough of the ball for it not to be a clear and obvious error.

Somewhere within that ramble lies a major issue with VAR and with officiating in general. If we'd have gone up the other end and Salah was "fouled" in the same way but comfortably inside the area, the referee wouldn't have given a penalty and nor would VAR. So that's just a microcosm of how unfair and inconsistent the current system is. 

Sure, but he didn't whistle a penalty, he called a free kick outside the box. VAR called the penalty. Had it been obviously inside the box, I wonder if he would have given it. Possibly not.

And you are 100% correct, we also wouldn't be talking about it if he'd waved play on. And again 100% correct saying that we wouldn't have had a foul/penalty for exactly the same thing at the other end.

But I have no particuliar issue with his decision, I'd have wanted it had the roles been reversed. The move to a penalty is just a crock of shit though.
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Offline redk84

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #547 on: October 26, 2020, 02:17:04 pm »
I didnt think it was a foul....and to be honest i didnt know any part of the foul on the line meant a pen. Thought it needed to be on the other side of the line...

But we fought back well..just need to build on that
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Offline Paul1611

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #548 on: October 26, 2020, 02:21:39 pm »
felt like a lot of games last season with us just seeing it through whilst not playing well.  The fact we can do this after so many years of dropping points in games like this makes my heart sing :)

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #549 on: October 26, 2020, 03:48:08 pm »
I had trouble getting a good stream for the game so I only just noticed from watching Inside Anfield that the players had already got their wall lined up ready for the free kick (with Gini kneeling behind) so they must have been gobsmacked when it was given as a penalty, was there much of an outcry from them?
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #550 on: October 26, 2020, 03:51:02 pm »
I always read these a day or two after the match. Thanks Rushy for making it possible.
(Is there someone available for the remainder of the games? I'm on dodgy streams so not 100% reliable but wouldn't want you or anyone else to have to go solo again!)
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #551 on: October 26, 2020, 03:57:28 pm »
I feel like, as with players, every ref has his level. If he's not good enough for the PL, he should get an opportunity in the Championship. If he doesn't cut it there, off to L1 and so on, while the better refs from the lower leagues get a chance in the higher divisions.
That doesn't make any sense, though. The Championship is in no way necessarily easier to referee than the PL; ditto the lower leagues. If a ref is not good enough he'll be not good enough in those leagues as well, so why should they suffer his ministrations through no fault of their own?

It doesn't correlate with playing ability at all

It shows a pretty patronising attitude toward the lower leagues to effectively say ''this ref is shit, so send him to the Championship, they don't count for much so it doesn't matter if he's shit there''
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 04:08:12 pm by Ghost Town »
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Offline mickeydocs

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #552 on: October 26, 2020, 04:04:51 pm »

I have to repeat that, anywhere else on the pitch where this doesn't result in a bizarre penatly, we don't even have this conversation because no-one is questioning the decision. It's such a common tackle/foul/event/decision.  The only difference here is it somehow resulted in a penalty.

Hardly anyone agrees with you, most feel it was not a foul. Even the morons on MOTD.

I always thought the rule was that the attacking player had to be in the box, really didn't realise the penalty was given if the defender but not the attacker was in the penalty box.
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #553 on: October 26, 2020, 04:07:36 pm »

But I have no particuliar issue with his decision, I'd have wanted it had the roles been reversed. The move to a penalty is just a crock of shit though.
I tend to agree. I'm not sure if it was a foul or not; nor whether it was on the line or not. But it was certainly close enough for me to be philosophical about it being given. I must admit I was a bit surprised at the uproar in the half time/after match threads. I tend to think that it's really last week's decisions that are driving that.

What is idiotic is the idea that VAR only checked on the placement and not on the legality of the tackle. If that claim is true you had the absurd situation in which a fully qualified referee was watching an incident back on video, multiple times, seeing both where it occurred and the legality/severity of the tackle and had to ignore one of those components, even though he could see it right there in front of him. It's this selective application that makes VAR such a crock.

Assuming that claim is true, of course, because later a contradictory claim was put out. So just like last week we have conflicting stories about what happened. Which is just insane. PGMOL, the PL, the FA, every one needs to get a fucking grip.
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #554 on: October 26, 2020, 04:11:32 pm »
Hardly anyone agrees with you, most feel it was not a foul. Even the morons on MOTD.

I always thought the rule was that the attacking player had to be in the box, really didn't realise the penalty was given if the defender but not the attacker was in the penalty box.
I think the offence has to be in the box, which also counts the line, right to it's outside edge. The VAR seemed to think it was just on the line.

I may be wrong but I think the position of the players is not important, only the position of the offence. So both players could mostly be outside the box but if the tackling foot and the tackled foot are inside (or on the line) then it can be a pen.
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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #555 on: October 26, 2020, 04:12:41 pm »
That doesn't make any sense, though. The Championship is in no way necessarily easier to referee than the PL; ditto the lower leagues. If a ref is not good enough he'll be not good enough in those leagues as well, so why should they suffer his ministrations through no fault of their own?

It doesn't correlate with playing ability at all

It shows a pretty patronising attitude toward the lower leagues to effectively say ''this ref is hit, so send him to the Championship, they don't count for much so it doesn't matter if he's shit there''

I get what you're saying, but that's just the way the system works. No Premier League referee just becomes a Premier League referee, they have to prove their worth in amateur/youth football, then in the lower leagues of professional football. So by virtue of that, every referee currently refereeing below the Premier League is considered not good enough to be at the highest level, at least at this very moment in time. A shit Premier League referee is likely better than most of the Football League referees (which says more about them than it does about our current crop). 

Also, I'd imagine referees would say that refereeing in the lower leagues is easier, probably on two counts. The first being that the pace of the game is slower, and the second being that they are much further away from the spotlight/pressure/scrutiny of the Premier League, the media attention, the star players and the greater number of fans. Make a mistake in League 2 and the only footage of it will be from one sideline camera which you can barely see anything from that only gets shown once on some random difficult to find channel showing highlights.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 04:18:18 pm by LovelyCushionedHeader »
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Offline 12Kings

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #556 on: October 26, 2020, 04:15:29 pm »
VAR is a joke.
Referees are a joke.

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #557 on: October 26, 2020, 07:59:11 pm »
Referees are a joke.
Now all jokes feel deeply offended.
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Offline Realgman

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #558 on: October 27, 2020, 01:56:41 am »
I think the offence has to be in the box, which also counts the line, right to it's outside edge. The VAR seemed to think it was just on the line.

I may be wrong but I think the position of the players is not important, only the position of the offence. So both players could mostly be outside the box but if the tackling foot and the tackled foot are inside (or on the line) then it can be a pen.

Yeah,  that's how I understand it too, any part of the line is technically inside the line, the best analogy is "as in tennis".
I still believe it just wasn't a foul. But the true issues have been ironed out here already. The decision will stand unless its "a clear and obvious error", and I suppose that wasn't a "clear" error on the decision to call it a foul. Another is that var looked at if it was Inside the line, it was suggested they could do this, and they did.
And to add, they said they looked at pickfords "contact" with Virg, and deemed it not wothy of anything....
The selective application of how to decide on incidents as rightly pointed out here, has been compounded by the fact more people can add more wrong decisions on top of others..

It's not fucking working... I thought var was a great idea before it was implemented, I was soo wrong, and so was everyone else who thought that.. Stop persisting with something that's getting worse the more you try to fix it in real time..
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 01:58:28 am by Realgman »
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Offline harleydanger

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Re: Liverpool 2 vs Sheffield 1 Berge 13' p Bobby 41' Jota 64'
« Reply #559 on: October 27, 2020, 05:06:38 am »
Irrelevant of whether it was a free kick, penalty even a foul, you don't do down in the box if you're a CB.
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