Topic: Liverpool's Midfield

[Suareznumber7]

Get to a game lad he doesn't get slated, and I doubt he gives a toss for knobs on social media.

You honestly don’t think a 19 year old is aware of, and cares about, what is said about him on social media? 

[Knight]

If modern winning football is all about creating overloads for 3v2 or 2v1 on the wings when you're in settled possession in the offensive third then I'm not sure how you accomplish that if you hold your midfielders back. You're basically talking about Allardyce or Bruce type football where everyone retains their shape and you just lob balls at the tall bloke in the box and hope something happens. Not exactly winning football tactics. So to say we're pushing our midfielders wide, well yes as we need to outnumber the defense in areas to create an advantage to carve out an opening for a shot! The issue is where we are losing the ball and the breakdown of our counter-press because we no longer have the legs for it. You can even see it in games where there is a hesitancy to pass the ball into the middle because even the players know if they lose it there then it's really bad. The point is they aren't supposed to lose it there, not that the midfielders are playing out of position. Either that or we need to swap out Fabinho for a prime Kante and then it just wouldn't matter at all.

We're putting our 8s very high and wide AND getting our fullbacks very high and usually wide. That means we have Fab and the CBs to stop a counter. We also have a bunch of CMs who can't get behind the ball when we lose it high. Every single one of them, when the play passes us by, they're gone.

[Fromola]

How is he not a midfielder?  He’s played every game there.  The manager clearly sees him as a midfielder whether you do or not.

You can't put him in a midfield with no legs in it. Put him in alongside Bellingham and Tchouameni or something by all means.

[mattD]

Bring Back Buvac....

I joke, but getting back to the fundamentals of gegenpressing would be fun (influenced by Buvac), and then refining it from there on again to ensure success (influenced by Linjders) ala 18/19 and 19/20. It seems the silverware years were a fine balance between the gegenpressing fundamentals and something more technical and possession based, along with players at their peak which helped. At the moment, too much stale, soft football with ageing players with an emphasis on possession, is giving me flashbacks to certain moments under the Rodgers era (albeit he didn't have many ageing players).

It just feels like we've lost our identity. Is it possible that the culture of the team have lost older habits over time and forgotten what intensity looks like? Renewal and refreshing is important and we don't thrill or inspire anymore.

[Fromola]

Bring Back Buvac....

I joke, but getting back to the fundamentals of gegenpressing would be fun (influenced by Buvac), and then refining it from there on again to ensure success (influenced by Linjders) ala 18/19 and 19/20. It seems the silverware years were a fine balance between the gegenpressing fundamentals and something more technical and possession based, along with players at their peak which helped. At the moment, too much stale, soft football with ageing players with an emphasis on possession, is giving me flashbacks to certain moments under the Rodgers era (albeit he didn't have many ageing players).

It just feels like we've lost our identity. Is it possible that the culture of the team have lost older habits over time and forgotten what intensity looks like? Renewal and refreshing is important and we don't thrill or inspire anymore.

We haven't done enough in the transfer market to refresh things, simple really, particularly in midfield where we've signed one player in 5 years and he's nearly 32.

Don't refresh enough and it goes stale and players gets old.

[mattD]

We haven't done enough in the transfer market to refresh things, simple really, particularly in midfield where we've signed one player in 5 years and he's nearly 32.

Don't refresh enough and it goes stale and players gets old.

Undoubtedly true, and definitely the main factor, but you hardly see more intensity from younger players do you, so just wondering if its also a tactical thing?

[royhendo]

Bring Back Buvac....

I joke, but getting back to the fundamentals of gegenpressing would be fun (influenced by Buvac), and then refining it from there on again to ensure success (influenced by Linjders) ala 18/19 and 19/20. It seems the silverware years were a fine balance between the gegenpressing fundamentals and something more technical and possession based, along with players at their peak which helped. At the moment, too much stale, soft football with ageing players with an emphasis on possession, is giving me flashbacks to certain moments under the Rodgers era (albeit he didn't have many ageing players).

It just feels like we've lost our identity. Is it possible that the culture of the team have lost older habits over time and forgotten what intensity looks like? Renewal and refreshing is important and we don't thrill or inspire anymore.

“the silverware years” as if they’re part of a dewy eyed yesteryear?

Two midfielders and we’re right back in every single mix, I’d argue.

[Fromola]

Undoubtedly true, and definitely the main factor, but you hardly see more intensity from younger players do you, so just wondering if its also a tactical thing?

I think you have from players who've come in. Diaz, Nunez and Jota have refreshed the attack (2 of them badly missed), hopefully Gakpo will, and Konate has at the back. In the little he's played Ramsey has got that steel and intensity about him. Bajcetic has when he's featured. Doak has looked the part. Not many of these are starting games though are they? Only Nunez against Leicester for example, so it's all very stale, particularly in midfield.

[Dave McCoy]

We're putting our 8s very high and wide AND getting our fullbacks very high and usually wide. That means we have Fab and the CBs to stop a counter. We also have a bunch of CMs who can't get behind the ball when we lose it high. Every single one of them, when the play passes us by, they're gone.

Right, but that's more a balance issue as far as the movement when the ball switches one side to the other. We liked to say in the before times how Gini and Hendo were the actual fullbacks to cover for Robbo and Trent but that's obviously simplistic. Yes that was their main job but they still pushed up as circumstances allowed.  It's also why I said in the Template thread that I somewhat think that Klopp's current answer to our issues is just full on pedal to the metal in that we're better off full out attacking then the alternative.

[CS111]

“the silverware years” as if they’re part of a dewy eyed yesteryear?

Two midfielders and we’re right back in every single mix, I’d argue.

I'm Of the same thinking. Get Diaz back fully fit and Nunez scoring, though I do worry about him, looks very awkward when shooting and doubt it's something you can teach but obviously is a handful.
Then 2 proper midfielders and I mean proper starters for us that can stay fit and there is no reason why we shouldn't be back to where we were the past few seasons.

[Fromola]

I'm Of the same thinking. Get Diaz back fully fit and Nunez scoring, though I do worry about him, looks very awkward when shooting and doubt it's something you can teach but obviously is a handful.
Then 2 proper midfielders and I mean proper starters for us that can stay fit and there is no reason why we shouldn't be back to where we were the past few seasons.

It's fixable. We were in a similar mess 2 years ago and bounced back the next season, although getting the crowds back was key along with sneaking the top 4 finish.

The problem now is the whole club is rudderless at the moment and if we do miss out on the top 4 it sets us back a lot. It's easier to fix the quicker we can - i.e. now.

[fowlermagic]

Right now our midfield options do not suit the high line as the opposition are on our back line when we cough up the ball and the break is on. No matter who's available up front the opposing team only has to get one ball down the park and they probably have a one v one as none of our midfielders can get back to cover.

Until we have an addition in midfield our tactics surely should be two sitting midfielders who hold a line closer to central defence so there is less overload on us with a break.

[CS111]

Definitely should be better without the ball but the legs are just not there to recover when we lose possession.  Can't remember the last game I saw us press a team time after time when we lose it. Didn't there use to be some unwritten rule that we had something like 5 second's to get the ball back and opposition managers were saying we were a nightmare to play against. We are very far from that team.

[Dave McCoy]

Since the Harvey thread is still locked, by my count there are 4 publications now that have published articles about how Harvey is being failed and any criticism is unfair. Can anyone remember anything similar for a player of his age and stature? Seems strange.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Definitely should be better without the ball but the legs are just not there to recover when we lose possession.  Can't remember the last game I saw us press a team time after time when we lose it. Didn't there use to be some unwritten rule that we had something like 5 second's to get the ball back and opposition managers were saying we were a nightmare to play against. We are very far from that team.

Yes, that team currently doesn't exist at all at LFC. And without that, what is the identity of the team? Where has all our Kloppishness gone? And why would anyone be happy with such an outcome? We're not a technical team, and we're not a high energy pressing team, and we're not a counter attacking team, and we're not a defensive team. So what are we? It's bizarre at the moment.

[masher]

What the fuck has happened to Fabinho, gone from world class to utter dross in record time.

[Caligula?]

Hendo should really take up Milner's role next season. Thiago just isn't a good fit for us anymore, if he ever was at all. Fabinho looks shot. Bellingham alone won't fix this.

[mattD]

Christ, Fabinho and Thiago are abject.

Lightweight, shite off the ball, just dreadful. Henderson will probably bear the brunt but at least he harangues, covers ground and shows some steel in midfield.

[Coolie High]

Hendo should really take up Milner's role next season. Thiago just isn't a good fit for us anymore, if he ever was at all. Fabinho looks shot. Bellingham alone won't fix this.

Thiago is a great fit he just shouldn’t be our best midfielder defensively, which he has been. We’ve actually been wasting his quality by not putting him around midfielders in their physical prime like Madrid do for Kroos and Modric for example.

[HeartAndSoul]

Hendo should really take up Milner's role next season. Thiago just isn't a good fit for us anymore, if he ever was at all. Fabinho looks shot. Bellingham alone won't fix this.

If the option was available, each and every single midfielder would get sold/ released and bring in a new lot of midfielders but that’s never going to happen. If I’m Bellingham and watching this shit, I’d stay as far away as I possibly could.

[Coolie High]

Christ, Fabinho and Thiago are abject.

Lightweight, shite off the ball, just dreadful. Henderson will probably bear the brunt but at least he harangues, covers ground and shows some steel in midfield.

You must watch a completely different sport, because Thiago makes more tackles, does more harassing and generally is a bigger defensive presence than Henderson.

[Samie]

Our entire midfield needs upgrading, starting this January window.

[Armchair expert]

Not sure why people are moaning about a replay I’m just  glad we’re still in it as let’s be honest we won’t getting top four and Real Madrid will tear us a new one …So it’s  the only realistic chance of something to celebrate …

[Saus76]

I love Thiago, but christ, he's a passenger in that midfield at the moment. Fab has just lost it unfortunately. Its gone way past just bad form with him. Henderson has lost a yard in pace and intensity. Jones is constantly injured, Milner is too old and Carvalho and Elliott aren't midfielders.

Is 3 enough? Fuck me.

[number 168]

Thiago, Henderson and Fabinho played walking football at times. I don't think I have seen a slower Liverpool midfield.

[Ray K]

Yes, a Liverpool midfield would be a nice idea. I think we should seriously look into this.

[Coolie High]

Thiago made 6 tackles today, he made 4 tackles and 3 interceptions against Leicester, passenger? He’s the whole bleeding car in that midfield.

[Knight]

Our first choice midfield is soooooooo old and sooooooo slow. The backups are really slow and most likely injured.

[Dave McCoy]

At least Thiago won the ball. I couldn't tell you two things Hendo or Fabinho did the entire game. The Hwang equalizer was just pathetic. Any 50/50 ball around Fabinho and Hendo is just lost.

[KloppCorn]

Not having that. Thiago was excellent as always. He has to do the job of 3 players. It’s Hendo who keeps hiding on the right and over crowding Trent and Salah. Really need someone with an engine this winter on the right. Someone with ball carrying ability. Someone like Matheus Nunes shame he can’t get signed him this winter. Get caicedo in.

[killer-heels]

Fabinho is so fucking awful. He got turned about 3 or 4 times. Henderson has quit competing for anything.

[DelTrotter]

Thiago is the only one offering anything and suspect he'd get back to his best in a functional midfield. As it is Fab and Hendo are giving us nothing, genuinely nothing.

[y2w902]

Combination of Fabinho and Hendo is deadly...for us.

[SMASHerano]

people blaming Thiago.

Fabinho and Henderson have been abysmal for a quite a long time now.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Something I’ve noticed recently too is the number of passes we play which at head or waist height and we end up with a load of headed or volleyed passes and generally slows us down and gets us nowhere.

[PIPA23]

We have no midfield, zero.

[mattD]

Thiago made 6 tackles today, he made 4 tackles and 3 interceptions against Leicester, passenger? He’s the whole bleeding car in that midfield.

Slim pickings though, doesn't cover enough ground, doesn't get in your face, generally allows players to drift pass him easily. Watching Thiago's highlights is watching a film trailer, looks nice, but doesn't determine the true quality.

The guy is a liability and ought to leave at the end of the season.

[TepidT2O]

What midfield?

[Egyptian36]

Thiago made 6 tackles today, he made 4 tackles and 3 interceptions against Leicester, passenger? He’s the whole bleeding car in that midfield.

True. I don't know what game some people were watching. We only have one midfielder playing, Thiago. One man midfield. Hopefully he stays fit otherwise we are truly fucked.

[Tobelius]

Have find some way to slow down counter attacks with current players when we turn over the ball this much.

Simple to break us down,just run through our midfield there's no-one there until they reach our box.

Really hope we start to see some improvement there,anything,soon.