Author Topic: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3  (Read 64929 times)

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1280 on: December 6, 2016, 11:22:57 pm »
What's been grating the most for me is that when the half time whistle went, there seemed to be a clear need for a good kick up the arse for the second half, and it wasn't apparent. 2 zip up... lovely... ideal... so make sure the first 10/15 gets sorted because they're going to come out with a different mindset, so I was fully expecting us to do the same. OK, they brought Messi on, who was great, but not so great as to help completely dismantle us surely. That's what has grated the most, as signs were there... the need to grab a proper hold of this in the second half, coz those last few from the first didn't look great. And he usually sorts it out does Klopp.


Have to also say, that Klopp's smiles about town for the final whistle helped me to remember to smile too.


Edit: But... now need to learn, and learn fast. Am sure we will.
« Last Edit: December 6, 2016, 11:25:06 pm by Filler. »

Offline Frizzo

  • Having a Bad Hair Life.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,919
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1281 on: December 7, 2016, 02:49:17 am »
I don't understand people's views on goalkeeping. I always defended Mignolet as his abuse was downright disgraceful at times. I also said by the standards he was judged by, almost any new keeper was going to struggle.

Karius has had a poor start, he's been exceptionally lucky that his first few glaring errors (Swansea, Man Utd, etc) were unpunished.

But now he could've saved us a couple of points, and he's got to go? Milner and Lovren were just as culpable. Origi was just as culpable. But if you make a mistake as a goalkeeper you're shit.

Honestly you lot could have de gea this season and you'd be crucifying him as he's been poor.

Then there seems to be the people that hated Mignolet so much and banged the drum for anyone else that they'll defend everything he does, which is equally crazy.

He's been poor, his distribution has been erratic, and this notion that we play 10 yards higher is dramatically overstated. We played a high line when Mignolet was in goals too and it's not like we were bombarded with runs in behind. There may be a slight difference, but it's not noticeable.  However, if he develops into the fine keeper that Klopp obviously sees it's fine lines like that which may make the difference.

If he's going to develop into that 'keeper though, he needs our help - and I'm not sorry to say it, those of you slamming him as the reason we lost are truly vile non-supporters.
« Last Edit: December 7, 2016, 02:55:42 am by Frizzo »

Offline Yiannis

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,033
  • Reds fan from Greece
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1282 on: December 7, 2016, 12:19:09 pm »
Next game cannot come soon enough in order to partially forget last Sunday's one. Still feels horrible for the way we lost and the chance to go 3 points ahead of City.

Here is hoping for another good run of games now. It's always how you respond afterwards.
Messi in fact doesn't have a recognizable trait.

Offline fowlermagic

  • Ilittarate
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,552
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1283 on: December 8, 2016, 02:00:25 pm »
Here is what Johnny Giles said about the game and made some valid points here n there. Take from it what you want but he does hit the nail on the head a little when we went clear by 2 goals particularly the 2nd time as we should have shored up the 3 points.


HE is a fascinating man with a singular vision of how the game should be played but I would be driven to distraction if I was a player working under Jurgen Klopp.  I said a few times this season that I thought he was a one-trick pony and that there will be games like Bournemouth when everything goes wrong.
There will be many days when everything goes right and my feeling remains that there could be enough of them to win a title for Liverpool. But I have to say, if I was in that Liverpool squad now, I would be maddened by the way he wants to play because I see no balance, nothing to lean on when the wheels come off and they concede soft goals.


In the Bournemouth game, there were opportunities for Klopp’s team to ease back and take full control of the game with the lead they had. On two occasions, they had a two-goal lead and with that established, had won a position where a balanced team would take a moment to take stock, tighten everything up and see out the game. That usually happens in midfield when someone gets his foot on the ball and sets the pace of the game. Sometimes the players themselves or even one strong-willed enough will see what is in front of him and make the adjustment without the manager even being involved.


But the moral authority to do that comes from the manager and the preparation for situations like that will have been rehearsed over and over again on the training ground. In that case, the manager’s philosophy is to have a balance between attack and defence and that is the right way to go about it. With Klopp, it’s all about the front foot, all about forward momentum and if anything interrupts the process, he wants nothing else from his players than for them to push on and try for another goal.

That’s why his two full-backs were far away from the play at the wrong end of the pitch for a couple of Bournemouth’s goals. That’s why he brought Adam Lalana into the game at 3-1 when other managers might have considered a steadying presence. Not Klopp. He wants none of that. It’s go, go, go all the time and while it produces some breath-taking football and can completely overwhelm other teams, it carries at its heart an obvious weakness.


There is no alternative. It’s an all-or-nothing approach.

Both Nathanial Clyne and James Milner have been told by Klopp to do things that probably go against their instincts as defenders but must be liberating for them as players. I’m sure the players think it’s fantastic and I’m not being facetious about that.  Klopp tells these lads to push forward at all times and if the team does get punished, as happened against Bournemouth, his message on the training ground the next day would be that they had done nothing wrong.

He shoulders responsibility for them and I’m pretty certain, is utterly convinced that staying on the front foot, even when your defence is in disarray, is the way forward.


It really must be a fine feeling to be playing in a team like that and to be released to attack without any worry about the consequences. But you are walking as a tightrope all the time and when you fall off, there’s no net.

So for Klopp, Bournemouth is a glitch, a hiccup which will not sway him in any way from his philosophy. Liverpool will probably go out and score five in the next one.

I have to say, if I had a big club and my pick of the managers currently on view in the Premier League, I would be leaning towards Antonio Conte, who does have the balance right.


When Chelsea are on the front foot, they can be just as irresistible as Liverpool but there is a big difference when they are not. Chelsea are tight and disciplined when they don’t have the ball. They have a manager who believes that there are times to attack and times to defend.

When a manager like that works with good players, you can get the type of consistency which has driven Chelsea to the top of the table with the kind of run which could leave everyone else for dead if he can sustain it.


Source
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/liverpool/john-giles-i-would-be-driven-insane-if-i-was-liverpool-player-under-jurgen-klopp-right-now-35276945.html
I have a simple philosophy: Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. Scratch where it itches. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi5-V75v-6I

Offline newterp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,799
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1284 on: December 8, 2016, 02:03:55 pm »
That's actually a pretty stupid article (not intended as a dig to you posting it).  So much hindsight BS being spouted by everyone - especially made worse given the week between games.

De Bruyne puts the 1 ft sitter away - and this article makes no mention of Chelsea and Conte - unless to say now that Chelsea has played a top level team again and lost - it looks like Conte is a flat track bully.
« Last Edit: December 8, 2016, 02:05:32 pm by newterp »

Offline Chris~

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,588
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1285 on: December 8, 2016, 02:08:54 pm »
From the same guy at the end of Ocotber.

Quote
I started the season thinking that Liverpool would surprise everyone but as the first weeks rolled by and Guardiola’s team brushed aside every team they met, I was leaning towards Manchester City as the likely winners.

Now I don’t think either team will win and that’s mainly because Jose Mourinho seems to be the only one among the top clubs who knows how to organise a defence properly.

All good teams are based on good defence and he is the only one that seems to appreciate that fact.

Seems to have gone through 5 title favourites already this season.

Offline Anfield89

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,986
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1286 on: December 8, 2016, 02:11:28 pm »
He has brought Lucas off the bench to sit in or another centre back many times in his short time here to sure up a game. That guy has chosen to ignore that. Klavan coming on and sitting Lucas in front was an option but so was Lallana holding the ball up high up the pitch, it didn't work but what's to say inviting pressure would have stood up.

Offline Crosby Nick

  • He was super funny. Used to do these super hilarious puns
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 111,963
  • Poultry in Motion
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1287 on: December 8, 2016, 02:13:07 pm »
Even the Burnley thread only got two days and 38 pages.

Think we had Button midweek to distract the zombies.

Offline JackWard33

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,009
  • President of the Harry Wilson fanclub
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1288 on: December 8, 2016, 02:16:33 pm »
That's actually a pretty stupid article (not intended as a dig to you posting it).  So much hindsight BS being spouted by everyone - especially made worse given the week between games.

De Bruyne puts the 1 ft sitter away - and this article makes no mention of Chelsea and Conte - unless to say now that Chelsea has played a top level team again and lost - it looks like Conte is a flat track bully.

Yeah completely. Chelsea/Conte are flavor of the month and you're right if city had won 2-0 we'd be compared to City and Pep

When a team loses a game the flaws in that team are evident
So when we beat Chelsea they looked defensively solid but produced very little going forward
When we lose games it's because teams catch us up field and expose our defenders
We're conceding very few shots and chances in general so it's just stupidly binary to categorize this side as Keegan's Newcastle
There is more than one way to approach football and be successful

Could have been a worthwhile article if he'd stuck to the idea that we struggle to manage games when tired -we haven't shown we can sit in and defend a lead too often... that's a fair criticism

Actually a far more relevant article would be on the difference wage bill makes to squad depth and how a team like ours suffers when we have more than one game a week and injuries but still

Offline fowlermagic

  • Ilittarate
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,552
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1289 on: December 8, 2016, 03:16:13 pm »
As I said take from that article what you want as all our opinions at this stage have a wee bit of hindsight. I do see some logic in working on our defensive game over time as eventually we will be tested just like we were in the Bournemouth game. It may be in the league or a cup game or next year in the CL where better teams than us will create a similar scenario as I just hope we will learn from our mistakes as Sunday was very similar to the issues we had in 13/14. Still cant just take the foot off the pedal and let teams get too much of a foothold in the game as I still remember the Arsenal game in 89 where we just kicked possession away hanging on hoping we see out the result we needed. Was totally not us then as we, just like now, killed games off by keeping possession. Look its a one off as the football this season has being tremendous. I just think we can win the title if we add more to the supply room as I do think an experienced hand on the tiller Saturday would have helped. That's the thing I guess as nearly everyone of our lads does not have a clue of what it takes to get over the finishing line first. It may take a few more blips to figure that one out.
I have a simple philosophy: Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. Scratch where it itches. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi5-V75v-6I

Offline didi shamone

  • Too old for fighting
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,228
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1290 on: December 8, 2016, 05:05:52 pm »
Karius had a nightmare. Lovren had a nightmare. Our most reliable player gave away a stupid penalty. Our midfield went missing late on. Our most effective attacking player went off injured.
It all combined to make a shocker of a day. But if you think of it, that was still Brendan Rodgers team with a few tweaks. It's remarkable where we are having spent less than nothing. It's incredibly exciting to imagine where we'll be in another year or two. Which is not  to discount how exciting this season is. We have Jurgen Klopp...don't forget.

Offline Kenny19

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
  • Dreaming our dreams and drifting within
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1291 on: December 8, 2016, 08:45:06 pm »
don't know if this has been mentioned before but exactly the same scoreline like in the dortmund game, 0-2 at halftime, 1-2, 1-3 and then the comeback with a winner in injury time... at least we know how those dortmund fans felt like

Offline gatcliffe

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,339
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1292 on: December 8, 2016, 09:43:39 pm »
This thread has run it's course should be closed after all we lost/gave away a winning position.
Like a bottle of wine the reds get better and better.

Offline Kop 81

  • Spineless.
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 560
  • We've got KLOPP!
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1293 on: December 9, 2016, 08:29:42 am »
This thread has run it's course should be closed after all we lost/gave away a winning position.

You've said this in two different threads now.  How about we don't bury our heads in the sand and address our issues?  And how does it hurt if we keep the thread open for a little longer?  The world will still keep turning either way  :wave

Back to this game, my issue with us is still the GK situation.  To win league titles you need a decent keeper between the sticks.  We don't have one.

Offline gatcliffe

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,339
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1294 on: December 9, 2016, 08:54:50 am »

Back to this game, my issue with us is still the GK situation.  To win league titles you need a decent keeper between the sticks.  We don't have one.
Been saying that all season and have been shot down for my opinion. I do however agree with your statement and will leave it at that.
Like a bottle of wine the reds get better and better.

Offline So… Howard Philips

  • Penile Toupé Extender. Notoriously work-shy, copper-bottomed pervert.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,146
  • All I want for Christmas is a half and half scarf
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1295 on: December 9, 2016, 10:41:20 am »
Just one thought. In the commentary they said that Bournemouth have a new hybrid pitch, a mix of grass and synthetic material. I know both teams played on the same pitch, and not looking for excuses, but any mitigation in this?

Offline newterp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,799
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1296 on: December 9, 2016, 01:00:18 pm »
Just one thought. In the commentary they said that Bournemouth have a new hybrid pitch, a mix of grass and synthetic material. I know both teams played on the same pitch, and not looking for excuses, but any mitigation in this?

We were up 3-1 (possibly even 4-1 with that weird corner). Don't think that all of sudden the synthetic blades of grass turned on and targeted our players.

Offline Aldo96

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
  • Scousers Rule The Country - Kop STH
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1297 on: December 9, 2016, 01:30:57 pm »
There were more players than just Karius at fault - like Origi. 

However, I simply cannot fathom how/why Karius is keeping Mig out of the first team.  Even if we are to use the 'it'll take him time' argument, then play him in the league cup until he is ready.

He may turn out well but what is it going to cost us in the meantime?  At present, he looks like an absolute car crash. And I'm generally supportive of our players.  In fairness though, he doesn't put himself on the team sheet.

Mignolet has been a car crash since he stepped in the door, Karius has cost us at most 3 points (depending on how you view it). Whether Karius will turn out to be good enough or not- Mignolet will never be the answer, so I wouldn't see much point in dropping Karius after a 15 game unbeaten streak and 1 game where he has cost us a point(s).
Liverpool is a soul mate, you can never fall out of love.
You'll Never Walk Alone.

Offline pyroparty

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,325
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1298 on: December 9, 2016, 01:36:17 pm »
Mignolet has been a car crash since he stepped in the door, Karius has cost us at most 3 points (depending on how you view it). Whether Karius will turn out to be good enough or not- Mignolet will never be the answer, so I wouldn't see much point in dropping Karius after a 15 game unbeaten streak and 1 game where he has cost us a point(s).

Yep. Mig seems to have become a better version of Manuel Neuer to some since he got dropped and errors when does play like the one where Leicester hit the bar or the comedy missed cross v Leeds get ignored. We'll see if Karius is the answer over the coming months/years but Mig certainly isn't.

Offline heylookitsjacob

  • 's Cream Crackers
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1299 on: December 9, 2016, 04:17:50 pm »
How about we don't bury our heads in the sand and address our issues?

If you are talking about Klopp, I totally agree. If you are talking about us fans, I have no idea how we would go about "addressing our issues." Unless that means talking about them in circles with nothing getting resolved and no one changing their mind and no action being taken?

Offline El Lobo

  • Chief Suck Up. Feel his breath on your face. Toxic, pathetic, arse-faced, weaselling slimeball. RAWK Maths Genius 2022.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 54,990
  • Pretty, pretty, pretty pretty good
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1300 on: December 9, 2016, 05:47:16 pm »
You've said this in two different threads now.  How about we don't bury our heads in the sand and address our issues?  And how does it hurt if we keep the thread open for a little longer?  The world will still keep turning either way  :wave

Back to this game, my issue with us is still the GK situation.  To win league titles you need a decent keeper between the sticks.  We don't have one.

Dyou reckon we should go for Joe Hart?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Online Dench57

  • Self-confessed tit. Can't sit still. She's got the hippy hippy crack.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,869
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1301 on: December 10, 2016, 11:44:23 am »
Interesting that they admitted it. Can't blame them to be honest

"Asked whether Bournemouth had targeted the 23-year-old goalkeeper as Liverpool’s weak link, Cook told TalkSport: “I’ve got to be honest, we did. We felt he was under a lot of pressure – obviously, playing for Liverpool you’ve got to be a very strong character. We did target him, we tried to pressure him and get as many shots at him as possible. Obviously, we didn’t get that many shots off in the game but we did target him as a weakness in the Liverpool side.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/09/jurgen-klopp-liverpool-lorius-karius-bournemouth-tactic-worst-thing

Loving Everton's business this summer. Here's an early call - they finish above Liverpool this season.
- Richard Keys (@richardajkeys) July 9, 2017

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,696
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1302 on: December 10, 2016, 04:54:35 pm »
Interesting that they admitted it. Can't blame them to be honest

"Asked whether Bournemouth had targeted the 23-year-old goalkeeper as Liverpool’s weak link, Cook told TalkSport: “I’ve got to be honest, we did. We felt he was under a lot of pressure – obviously, playing for Liverpool you’ve got to be a very strong character. We did target him, we tried to pressure him and get as many shots at him as possible. Obviously, we didn’t get that many shots off in the game but we did target him as a weakness in the Liverpool side.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/09/jurgen-klopp-liverpool-lorius-karius-bournemouth-tactic-worst-thing



I hope they enjoy. Looks like Klopp has developed a hatred for Bournemouth now thanks to those comments so i cannot wait to play them again.

Offline SerbianScouser

  • Far from world class.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,875
  • ...All the best
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1303 on: December 10, 2016, 05:19:49 pm »
The whole notion of "targeting" keepers is beyond hilarious. I mean isn't that the whole point of football, to target the keeper and score goals?

"Hey lads let's try something different today -- let's shoot and try to score; I know, I know it's crazy but bear with me, we can actually target the keeper and try to score, come on lads!"

Offline Upinsmoke

  • Is a grump, get used to it.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,196
Re: FULL TIME Bournemouth 4 vs Liverpool 3
« Reply #1304 on: December 10, 2016, 05:26:48 pm »
Look forward to playing these at our ground next. Obviously we will try and target there weaknesses, which is every fucking position.