Topic: Documentary: Hillsborough: Smears, Survivors & The Search For Truth, 12th Dec

[FlashGordon]

That Dave Richards is a bastard of the highest oreder there has to be a campaign to get this evil twat fucked off the FA council,if MPs have voted to try and get Philip Green stripped of his knighthood this weasel has to lose his poxy title too the fucking scumbag.

Agree, what a horrible excuse for a 'man'.

[RedPat]

3 minutes ago
@syptweet #couldyoubeacop mabe i could but not for your force im not bent enough #sickeningcoverup #areyouashamed #jft96

[Hymer Red]

Great work by all involved. Doesnt leave me with much faith in the IPCC though. I hope Im wrong.

[Ray K]

I'm not in the least bit surprised that they altered referee Lewis's statement.  They altered hundreds of other statements, so one more would have been no skin off their noses.  If you're going to conspire to besmirch an entire club and city you don't do half measures.

And of course 'Sir' Dave spread lies fed by the cops. His club didn't have a valid safety cert, so it was in his interest to deflect the blame.

Tenacious Kennedy is a true hero.

A-fucking-men

[reddebs]

I get that the IPCC have thousands of pieces of "evidence" to sift through before deciding if there's a case to answer but if they're dismissing, so casually, obvious alterations to evidence that backs up various other claims of a cover up either they have sufficient evidence not to need it or they aren't taking this seriously.  The conflict of interest with Daniels statement also being dismissed as not significant is another.

Foolishly I believed that nothing more would be brushed under the carpet, that after the HIP report came out and the new Inquest verdicts were given that prosecutions of all those involved would be brought, fucking hell I couldn't have been more wrong.

I'm worried that a few periphery figures will be scapegoated but the main protagonists will escape any further inspection.

 

[Harinder]

For anyone who missed the documentary. Some buffering which couldn't be helped when capturing so my sincerest apologies for that to all.

http://dai.ly/x5522xl

[deFacto please, you bastards]

For anyone who missed the documentary. Some buffering which couldn't be helped when capturing so my sincerest apologies for that to all.

http://dai.ly/x5522xl

Thank you for that.

[mersey_paradiso]

It's up on Youtube now too :

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/phEblvBPpvo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/phEblvBPpvo</a>

(Hope you don't mind me posting that too Harinder after you went to the trouble of recording it)

[Red_Hugh]

West Midlands c***s interviewed me, they did not want to hear my version of events, they just had a set load of questions, after seeing the programme tonight it rekindled memories of how they treated me.

[4pool]

It's up on Youtube now too :

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/phEblvBPpvo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/phEblvBPpvo</a>

(Hope you don't mind me posting that too Harinder after you went to the trouble of recording it)

Watching now, ta.

[Harinder]

It's up on Youtube now too :

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/phEblvBPpvo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/phEblvBPpvo</a>

(Hope you don't mind me posting that too Harinder after you went to the trouble of recording it)

Not at all! Anything that makes it available for people is helpful

[Marty 85]

Many thanks. I got a fucking virus from a file i'd downloaded earlier today when streaming the original showing on ITV from my pc and had to restore windows so missed it.

[4pool]

There's not much to be said that hasn't already. But when you think it can't get worse, it sometimes does.

Thanks to all who were in that who told their story.

And special thanks to those who work tirelessly to expose the lies.


( and no virus on mine when watching from the youtube version)

[Marty 85]

Apologies mate, I wasn't clear and edited the above post. The links grand, I was watching a live stream of the documentary on my PC and the virus was from a dodgy file I'd downloaded earlier that caused me to miss it.

[TepidT2O]

Incredible work finding all the extra evidence that tells us so much more, nothing but respect. well done.

Indeed it is incredible.....

[rednose54]

We`ve seen on here how Tenacious, has researched ,scrutinised, and fought, obviously aided by others, I am not articulated enough to begin to praise you all in your work. That airing tonight was remarkably brilliant, A humble scouser doffs his cap to you all, you should all be proud for your valiant efforts. I feared like many the authorities would escape justice, this piece of television might just have a few leeches losing sleep, long may it continue.

[Hazell]

For anyone who missed the documentary. Some buffering which couldn't be helped when capturing so my sincerest apologies for that to all.

http://dai.ly/x5522xl

Thanks. Couldn't watch it yesterday and probably won't have much time until the end of the week to watch it properly.

[No666]

West Midlands c***s interviewed me, they did not want to hear my version of events, they just had a set load of questions, after seeing the programme tonight it rekindled memories of how they treated me.

Have you asked to see your statement, Hugh?

[12C]

Have you asked to see your statement, Hugh?

Have you been in touch with the IPCC?

[Ziltoid]

Well done to everyone involved in making the programme. 

An angry and upsetting watch.

[timmyonions]

Shocking revelations again last night.We'll never know the full extent of it,however the tireless efforts from all involved in tackling this cover up have already got some brilliant results in exposing this country's shame so far.Hopefully there's a lot more to come.You all have my utmost respect for your efforts.

[liversaint]

We've probably just learnt less than 1% of it in that programme mate.

And that is the worrying thing. I found it harrowing, shocking but sadly was unsurprised by the sheer scale of the cover up and the levels these vermin have reached to cover their sorry arses.

As others have said, Tenacious Kennedy, truly inspiring and should be recognised by the city accordingly.

[DangerScouse]

Has much of the media picked up on this today?

[Pie Eyed]

I just finished watching it.  Couldn't face it last night, as there's no way I would have slept.

I really don't know how I either do or should feel right now.

It start with anger within the first 5 minutes, then slowly became a silent, seething rage.

I can feel the pressure behind my eyeballs, as if they want to burst.

I wasn't at Hillsborough (thank the gods), and "only" had to endure watching it unfold in front of me live on-screen, but as a Liverpool fan for as long as I can remember - even just as a human being - those images were burned in to my mind and have never been forgotten.

I know by now that I shouldn't be surprised any more by further revelations of how the smear campaign was run (and succeeded for over 20 years, outside of the city/club), but I am - every fucking time.

To hear from the actual witnesses how statements were changed, witnesses intimidated, WMP just accepting that whatever bullshit statements were fed to them from SYP were to be taken as gospel and never questioned - and *then* to both see & hear that absolute fucking c*nt, Sumner, claim that the jury got it wrong makes me want to fucking scream.

How these bastards got away with it for so long will be a fucking mystery for the ages - there were enough attempts at uncovering the truth before, but none were taken seriously enough.

And as for the requests for any/all "Sirs" who were involved in this to have the honours removed - Bollocks.  That's just the fucking start.

Lying under oath, misconduct in office (or whatever it's called), witness intimidation, evidence tampering,  interference with an investigation and just generally being a low-life piece of fucking shit are all reasons that each and every one of these fuckers that was involved - whether they are/were a PC, a detective, a chief inspector or a fucking MP should be PROSECUTED and LOCKED-THE-FUCK-UP.

Sorry for the rant, but it has taken almost 30 years to get to where we are now, and we've STILL not got the whole fucking truth.

Maybe after the IPCC finishes its so-called investigation in the new year, we might have more of it - but I have ZERO faith that we will ever get all of it, and even less that anyone will ever face true justice for almost-3-decades-long cover-up.


*** edit ***

Sorry - Forgot to give thanks to EVERYONE who made this happen, and special thanks to Tenacious Kennedy (and all the unnamed) for the time and effort that they have put in to scutinizing the half-million or so documents.

[Crosby Nick]

Pardon my ignorance but are Tenacious Kennedy and the Wrong Kennedy two different people then? The Wrong Kennedy I'd Adrian who wrote the book right? Somewhere along the line I've got mixed up (no typo).

[MichaelA]

Pardon my ignorance but are Tenacious Kennedy and the Wrong Kennedy two different people then? The Wrong Kennedy I'd Adrian who wrote the book right? Somewhere along the line I've got mixed up (no typo).

Wrong Kennedy/Tenacious Kennedy - one person, two accounts on the Twitters, The Tenacious Kennedy on here.
That Kennedy Moment - Adrian Tempany, formerly of this Parish.

[Crosby Nick]

Of course, too many Kennedys!

[whiteboots]

The programme was a depressing litany of dissembling, obfuscation and deceit.

However I do worry that the pretty well rehearsed case against the Police cover-up campaign is dulling the equally pressing need to pursue those just as responsible. Specifically, Sheffield Wednesday,  the Licensing Authority, Sheffield City Council, the FA, and the League.

[Andy G]

The programme was a depressing litany of dissembling, obfuscation and deceit.

However I do worry that the pretty well rehearsed case against the Police cover-up campaign is dulling the equally pressing need to pursue those just as responsible. Specifically, Sheffield Wednesday,  the Licensing Authority, Sheffield City Council, the FA, and the League.

I would suggest that the Police cover up is what has ruined the lives of so many of the survivors and perhaps even the families more than anything.  I can cope with genuine mistakes, but what I can't cope with is the failure to learn from near misses, and more so, trying to deflect the blame onto innocent parties.  Until 12/09/12, I was responsible for my friend's deaths.  23 years of having to live with that is more than the average person can deal with, and many have not.  Then it comes to light the extent of the cover up; by the very entity that is there for our protection, beyond comprehension.  Most of those responsible for creating that hell for thousands of victims, are sitting with a regular police pension. Millions in taxpayers money given to those who acted illegally in public office.  Millions of tax payers money in a whitewashed scrutiny, the HIP report and then millions more at the new inquests that were scheduled for 6 months and went on for 2 years because of the same discredited lies being repeated.  Now, it would seem, millions more on Operation Resolve and the IPCC investigations, both of which are seemingly heading towards another white wash,  Then the millions of future pounds in potential further litigation should that be the case.  Sorry to talk about money, as this is insignificant compared to the damage done over the years to innocent upstanding citizens.  Then consider the hours and financial input of those behind the Justice Campaign, and more recently the wonderful people on this website who have worked tirelessly to uncover this new evidence.  If a gong was worth shit, these are the people that should be getting them.

I know what you are saying (although don't quite understand the Football League's culpability), but the main cause of the disaster itself and the cover up was SYP and WMP and not these other entities - although they too should be targeted of course.  A Corrupt Police (and Government) being exposed has a direct affect on the whole country.  They need to know that they cannot get away with this sort of thing.  And for that reason in itself, along with the others stated above, they should be our main targets.

I am sorry if I am speaking out of turn in relation to other survivor's or family members thoughts on this matter.

[whiteboots]

I would suggest that the Police cover up is what has ruined the lives of so many of the survivors and perhaps even the families more than anything.  I can cope with genuine mistakes, but what I can't cope with is the failure to learn from near misses, and more so, trying to deflect the blame onto innocent parties.  Until 12/09/12, I was responsible for my friend's deaths.  23 years of having to live with that is more than the average person can deal with, and many have not.  Then it comes to light the extent of the cover up; by the very entity that is there for our protection, beyond comprehension.  Most of those responsible for creating that hell for thousands of victims, are sitting with a regular police pension. Millions in taxpayers money given to those who acted illegally in public office.  Millions of tax payers money in a whitewashed scrutiny, the HIP report and then millions more at the new inquests that were scheduled for 6 months and went on for 2 years because of the same discredited lies being repeated.  Now, it would seem, millions more on Operation Resolve and the IPCC investigations, both of which are seemingly heading towards another white wash,  Then the millions of future pounds in potential further litigation should that be the case.  Sorry to talk about money, as this is insignificant compared to the damage done over the years to innocent upstanding citizens.  Then consider the hours and financial input of those behind the Justice Campaign, and more recently the wonderful people on this website who have worked tirelessly to uncover this new evidence.  If a gong was worth shit, these are the people that should be getting them.

I know what you are saying (although don't quite understand the Football League's culpability), but the main cause of the disaster itself and the cover up was SYP and WMP and not these other entities - although they too should be targeted of course.  A Corrupt Police (and Government) being exposed has a direct affect on the whole country.  They need to know that they cannot get away with this sort of thing.  And for that reason in itself, along with the others stated above, they should be our main targets.

I am sorry if I am speaking out of turn in relation to other survivor's or family members thoughts on this matter.

You are not speaking out of turn at all. It’s what you think.

I too was there that day, on the Upper Tier. We all have our own stories, and memories.

My own view is that there is an important distinction to be drawn between the Police’s actions before the disaster, and after.

After, the Police were wholly, and exclusively, responsible for systematic deceit. Those responsible for that deceit should be punished.

Before is an entirely different story. Sheffield Wednesday were aware that the safety certificate had lapsed. That carries with it a criminal liability. The lapsed safety certificate did not allow for the changes made when the pens and fences were introduced. Sheffield Wednesday should be sued.

The FA, who staged cup semi- finals , and allowed cup ties to be held there, and the League, who allowed league fixtures to be staged there, should also be sued for not ensuring that games played at grounds under their control when in breach of legal obligations to have a valid safety certificate.

The Licensing Authority, and Council, are also culpable for allowing football games to be played at a ground which they knew had no safety certificate.

We are all agreed that the cover up and defamation of our support are wrongs that need to be righted.

But the above soft, sitting, glaring targets remain there to be shot at, and should be. They have loved the focus of attention being on the Police-to their benefit.

[Andy G]

and the League, who allowed league fixtures to be staged there, should also be sued for not ensuring that games played at grounds under their control when in breach of legal obligations to have a valid safety certificate.

Fair play lad, I had not thought of that as I was only thinking about the day itself.  The Police must be the main target and should not be dulled.

[Andy G]

Of course, too many Kennedys!

Ray Kennedy, Alan Kennedy and Kenny Deglish?

[xRedmanLFCx]

Just watched the documentary. I wasn't born in 1989, but I have been passionate about getting justice since I have been old enough to understand. I have so much admiration for the victims, survivors and families, who have gotten this far. You are all heroes.

I am filled with a lot of emotion after watching that. I think the biggest one is anger. Raw fucking anger.

JFT96

[Eeyore]

The thing is that if Taylor hadn't seen through the initial Police lies then nothing would of changed and the death trap terraces would of continued. As people have said people are only human and mistakes do happen. It was the culture though of never admitting mistakes and never putting things right that meant the warning from the near misses were never heeded and 96 people died needlessly.

To then compound those mistakes by smearing the very people they had failed takes a special kind of evil. That for me is why the Police who decided to smear and blame the survivors who were so traumatised by Hillsborough need to pay the price for their actions.

After that as whiteboots says there are plenty of other people culpable for the disaster.

[No666]

Now, it would seem, millions more on Operation Resolve and the IPCC investigations, both of which are seemingly heading towards another white wash,

I agree with you but as we enter 2017, we should not leave them in any doubt that we won't accept that. We are not voiceless now. We are eloquent, with journalists among our number. We are not fodder for the misinformation of the Patnicks of this world. We have good parliamentarians on our side. We will not accept a whitewash. We will not accept excuses of 'unfit to face trial.' We want them held accountable, from Duckenfield to the 'horse whisperers.' Big, small, braid on their shoulders or not -- the whole damn lot.

[KillieRed]

My abiding memory of watching things unfold on TV was of the "official" news being fed to us by the FA via the BBC, Graham Kelly in particular peddled the line (fed to him by whomever) that Liverpool fans had forced their way into the ground and caused the crush. He could not have gone out of his way more to shift the blame from the FA (in particular) to the fans. He just seemed to be desperate to protect his sainted employers whilst the bodies were still warm on the pitch and terrace - with very little concern for the dead. He and the FA seem to have skated from their part in abetting a cover-up that suited them very much.

The British Establishment - corrupt to the core. Who would have thought it?

[whiteboots]

The thing is that if Taylor hadn't seen through the initial Police lies then nothing would of changed and the death trap terraces would of continued. As people have said people are only human and mistakes do happen. It was the culture though of never admitting mistakes and never putting things right that meant the warning from the near misses were never heeded and 96 people died needlessly.

I agree Al.

And the biggest memorial to the 96 are the fine modern stadia which have replaced the rat traps that went before.

If the Police had just told the truth about what had happened, they would have had far less to defend.

Unnecessary deaths, unnecessary lies, unnecessary grief.

[Red_Mist]

Well done to everyone involved in putting it together. I hope it reached a wide audience.

As gully says above, the range and scale of the cover up is frightening. Makes the blood run cold and boil at the same time.

[InRed]

Tenacious Kennedy is a true hero.

[So… Howard Philips]

It would be interesting to see what a summary of all of the critical excerpts removed from the police officers at the stadium shows in terms of the incompetence on the day.

Has anyone compiled an overall picture/timeline of the events based on this redacted evidence?

Nothing in the programme surprised me. I suppose you become hardened to the pathetic deviousness of both police forces involved. I always thought it a bit odd that the discredited West Mids police was given the job of investigating South Yorks, but they were well used to fitting people up so would be a perfect choice.