Topic: Differences

[Kenny's Jacket]

Its just the dickhead culture of forcing political opinions nowadays. Many in Anfield had the right to protest and boo the anthem while Henderson and many others had the right to sing it. Both sides are doing what feels right to them and have their reasons to do so. I see no reason why any of this should have a bearing on football clubs. We have millions of fans across the globe to whom this isn't even an issue.
What is absolutely messed up with social media is how everything is so quickly made into a polarising issue5.. Be it the FSG out morons or the ones who responded to you, the idea that because you have a certain opinion, you arent welcome at anfield is garbage. They aren't the gatekeepers and you dont have to defend yourself. We love this football club and nobody has the right to tell you that you can't do so.

Tremendous irony 

[A Red Abroad]

Coincidentally, one of mine was too (my mum's dad) - he was a dispatch rider delivering messages/orders (and getting shot at) along the front line riding a big-ass motorbike and sinking into the sand. 

He then got shifted to the Italian campaign (Monte Cassino and all that) and then finally he was part of the motorcycle 'guard of honour' for De Gaulle's liberation of Paris - De Gaulle walked/marched in, but the Allies used Jeeps, Tanks and Motorcyles - it was very 'ceremonial' from what I can gather.

Thankfully, he survived it all, as did my Dad's dad - he spent most of the war fighting the Japanese in Burma.

Apologies for going off on a tangent.

[A Red Abroad]

Totally agree.

My lad is an RAF cadet - I've dropped him off this morning at a local cricket club at the Veterans Breakfast where he will be a part of a guard of honour for the Veterans as they arrive and I am so proud of him for getting involved in this. He hopes to become a pilot in the RAF and I back him all the way. I've got family who have served and still serve, both my Grandads were in the 8th Army in Africa in WW2, I've cousins who served in Afghanistan. Joining the armed forces, or being ex armed forces is no way looked down upon by Scousers and would never make you unwelcome at Anfield.

I'm pretty ambivalent about the royals, but I absolutely hate that we had to fund a hat placing ceremony for a billionaire, from a family of murderers and thieves. From the bit I saw on telly, he looked like he didn't even want to be there, its outdated shite. However, it's a person choice to like/support/dislike the establishment and the royals.

PS: Hope things work out for your lad.

[KevLFC]

Facebook and Twitter, there are loads of fake accounts on there wanting some reaction so I wouldn't read too much in to that. There are always idiots but 90% of Liverpool fans don't really care that Henderson sings the national anthem or that you turn up. Best way really is to stay silent. Sure there were quite a few in your boat at the match.

[Red Beret]

I don't hate my country.

I hate the establishment and the jackals twisting, distorting, abusing and corrupting my country, and laughing as they do it.

You only have to look at the reaction of the Daily Heil to see what they think of us. Whatever makes them froth. I hope they drown in their own hate.

I only express those feelings when I have to. They feel that way all the time. It's no way to live.

[Redric1970]

Coincidentally, one of mine was too (my mum's dad) - he was a dispatch rider delivering messages/orders (and getting shot at) along the front line riding a big-ass motorbike and sinking into the sand. 

He then got shifted to the Italian campaign (Monte Cassino and all that) and then finally he was part of the motorcycle 'guard of honour' for De Gaulle's liberation of Paris - De Gaulle walked/marched in, but the Allies used Jeeps, Tanks and Motorcyles - it was very 'ceremonial' from what I can gather.

Thankfully, he survived it all, as did my Dad's dad - he spent most of the war fighting the Japanese in Burma.

That’s a cracking bit of history to have your ancestors involved in.

[Jookie]

It’s just the dickhead culture of forcing political opinions nowadays. Many in Anfield had the right to protest and boo the anthem while Henderson and many others had the right to sing it. Both sides are doing what feels right to them and have their reasons to do so. I see no reason why any of this should have a bearing on football clubs. We have millions of fans across the globe to whom this isn't even an issue.

Liverpool Football Club has had at its core socialist values since the 1960’s. The clubs core supporter base has been anti-establishment for at least 40 years, whilst also being vocally left wing.

I agree that people have the right to agree, disagree or be ambivalent to the reaction to the national anthem.

What people, not from that core supporter base, don’t have the right to do is brush it off as ‘dickhead culture of forcing political opinions nowadays’. People in the core match going supporter base have strong feelings on this. The level of rejection of the national anthem yesterday was evidence of this. As were the multiple other times it’s happened. Or when we sing ‘F@@k the tories” or songs about Margaret Thatcher previously.

It’s not a one off thing. Or from a small minority either. It’s a genuinely held opinion that people can disagree with but personally I think they shouldn’t brush off as inconsequential or some modern fad. It’s part of the identity of the clubs match going supporter base whether people feel comfortable with that or not.

[Redric1970]

I don't hate my country.

I hate the establishment and the jackals twisting, distorting, abusing and corrupting my country, and laughing as they do it.

You only have to look at the reaction of the Daily Heil to see what they think of us. Whatever makes them froth. I hope they drown in their own hate.

I only express those feelings when I have to. They feel that way all the time. It's no way to live.

I’m with you on a lot of this I have a severe hatred of politics, I was on strike in 2002 and heard John Prescott of the Labour Party call us fire fighters traitors the next day on the Pickett lines we were spat at by members of the public I hate Labour, tories, libs you name it I think they are all self serving wronguns, I know I shouldn’t blanket them all as that’s half the problem nowdays everybody labelled the same and I need to get past that.

[Dim Glas]

God Save the King isn’t the English anthem, you can love your country and hate that god awful dirge about that god awful family and boo it to your heats content and still love England. 

[liverbloke]

Coincidentally, one of mine was too (my mum's dad) - he was a dispatch rider delivering messages/orders (and getting shot at) along the front line riding a big-ass motorbike and sinking into the sand. 

He then got shifted to the Italian campaign (Monte Cassino and all that) and then finally he was part of the motorcycle 'guard of honour' for De Gaulle's liberation of Paris - De Gaulle walked/marched in, but the Allies used Jeeps, Tanks and Motorcyles - it was very 'ceremonial' from what I can gather.

Thankfully, he survived it all, as did my Dad's dad - he spent most of the war fighting the Japanese in Burma.

cool family history 

[Chakan]

There's a huge difference between people posting on facebook/twitter and actual real live people. The comments on those social platforms are like a dumpster fire of the lowest common denominator of people.

I wouldn't pay them any mind.

[Fromola]

I don't hate my country.

I hate the establishment and the jackals twisting, distorting, abusing and corrupting my country, and laughing as they do it.

You only have to look at the reaction of the Daily Heil to see what they think of us. Whatever makes them froth. I hope they drown in their own hate.

I only express those feelings when I have to. They feel that way all the time. It's no way to live.

The things get wrongly conflated. Nobody would boo if the national anthem was Jerusalem or something.

But the establishment in this country have so much to answer for and that ridiculous song is the embodiment it.

Same way hating the Tories or the government doesn't mean you hate the country.

[Redsnappa]

I’m with you on a lot of this I have a severe hatred of politics, I was on strike in 2002 and heard John Prescott of the Labour Party call us fire fighters traitors the next day on the Pickett lines we were spat at by members of the public I hate Labour, tories, libs you name it I think they are all self serving wronguns, I know I shouldn’t blanket them all as that’s half the problem nowdays everybody labelled the same and I need to get past that.

Just on the subject that everybody is labelled the same, I'm interested to know how your mates and workmates react to the fact you're a Liverpool supporter. Being as you're not from Merseyside and I guess don't have an accent from the region, do you get 'banter' from them about the usual Scouser labels: thieving, workshy, 'always the victim', 'never your fault', 'you killed your own', 'murderers' etc?

[A Red Abroad]

cool family history 

 

[FlashingBlade]

Every Liverpool fan is part of our global support and we all love our club...but the club was built for and remains at its heart for the people of Liverpool...it will always have a Scouse heart and with it the identity and politics of its people...and an aspect of that was demonstrated yesterday. My view is if you support the club you're buying into the indentity of the City and that needs to be respected and understood

[Redric1970]

Just on the subject that everybody is labelled the same, I'm interested to know how your mates and workmates react to the fact you're a Liverpool supporter. Being as you're not from Merseyside and I guess don't have an accent from the region, do you get 'banter' from them about the usual Scouser labels: thieving, workshy, 'always the victim', 'never your fault', 'you killed your own', 'murderers' etc?

You would honestly be amazed how many Liverpool supporters there are in London, I know more Liverpool fans in London than any other club with the exception of arsenal, Spurs, West Ham I would guess, the worst for the crap banter is definitely West Ham fans. There’s lots of scousers in the service in London and most banter is done light hearted.

[Dim Glas]

Every Liverpool fan is part of our global support and we all love our club...but the club was built for and remains at its heart for the people of Liverpool...it will always have a Scouse heart and with it the identity and politics of its people...and an aspect of that was demonstrated yesterday. My view is if you support the club you're buying into the indentity of the City and that needs to be respected and understood

exactly this. Always mad to me when fans think they can seperate the two, so they can explain away political leanings or whatever.  If there is ever a club where you really do need to ‘get’ the emotions and culture and yes political history of a city, it’s LFC. I can’t see how it’s possible to be emotionally attached and invested if you don’t.

[Redsnappa]

You would honestly be amazed how many Liverpool supporters there are in London, I know more Liverpool fans in London than any other club with the exception of arsenal, Spurs, West Ham I would guess, the worst for the crap banter is definitely West Ham fans. There’s lots of scousers in the service in London and most banter is done light hearted.

Fair enough 

I lived in London for 40 years and by far the worst 'crap banter' in my experience was by Chelsea fans, though the hate from other clubs - even nonentities like Watford fans - has vastly increased since the rise of Social Media.

[Redric1970]

Fair enough 

I lived in London for 40 years and by far the worst 'crap banter' in my experience was by Chelsea fans, though the hate from other clubs - even nonentities like Watford fans - has vastly increased since the rise of Social Media.

Social media has definitely changed everything and in my opinion not for the better.

[royhendo]

I’m guessing real people are a better barometer but certainly you’ll get a better balanced hearing in some places more than others. It’s moderate here. And moderated!

You’d have expected the national anthem to be booed in the ground though given how long you’ve had the ST there eh?

[Kenny's Jacket]

exactly this. Always mad to me when fans think they can seperate the two, so they can explain away political leanings or whatever.  If there is ever a club where you really do need to ‘get’ the emotions and culture and yes political history of a city, it’s LFC. I can’t see how it’s possible to be emotionally attached and invested if you don’t.

Im not scouse or English for that matter, and I became a Liverpool famn at a very early stage having spent so much
time in Aldre Hey.

I just happen to share the same political values as most Scousers. However yesterday taught me that we do have Scouse, Tory, Royalists among our match going fan base.
Its not always so simplistic.

[MadErik]

I started supporting LFC when I was 5 and the only left wing I had any understanding of was the one Steve Heighway ran down, so I didn’t look too deeply into the political affiliation of the city or the club’s supporters. Everyone is entitled to their views and perhaps I live in a fool’s paradise but I believe that for 90 minutes everyone, irrespective of political persuasion, should solely be focussed on supporting the team.

[Alf]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and should respect the views of others, whether they agree with them or not. Frankly I’m glad I was going for a burst when it was played yesterday & know others who went in afterwards to avoid it.

[Iska]

This thread’s pretty sensible I think. I’d take most of it as a pretty accurate reflection of what people are actually like - there’s very little hatred around, very little intolerance. We could all do with being continually reminded that the internet isn’t real, it’s just a bit of panto. The trouble is you still feel the actual emotions just the same, so it gets enormously stressful when it shouldn’t. There were a couple of posts last night about the bravery of Anfield standing up to authoritarianism - no doubt it’s a genuine reaction, but it’s the same thing, massive stress and emotion in response to something that isn’t really real.

Fwiw I’d say the same about crowd behaviour. There’ll be plenty who joined in enthusiastically yesterday but feel a bit daft about it today - it’s just how it is, you get caught up in the moment and join in with things you don’t necessarily believe. It doesn’t reflect the values of the club in any particularly meaningful sense. You’ll recognise it yourself when the feeling dies down - at the end of the day we’re a wide body who think all sorts of ways about all sorts of stuff, same as you always found it before.

[Redsnappa]

Im not scouse or English for that matter, and I became a Liverpool famn at a very early stage having spent so much
time in Aldre Hey.

I just happen to share the same political values as most Scousers. However yesterday taught me that we do have Scouse, Tory, Royalists among our match going fan base.
Its not always so simplistic.

[So… Howard Philips]

You’ve missed off John Houlding, Tory mayor of Liverpool.

[End Product]

People can react how they want, persosonally felt heartening hearing those boos as it seems protest and expression was suppressed elsewhere which goes against what a healthy country is.

Hendo can sing the 2nd verse with a big diana mug if he wants. Royal family and national pride ain't for me but if its your bag fair enough. Course the poster is welcome at anfield just someone on the Internet, I would focus on the no doubt hundreds of positive interactions you will have experienced in the city rather than the odd disagreement. 

[Red Beret]

Look at it this way - Boris Fucking Johnson is the last person who should be lecturing anybody when it comes to moral behaviour.

He should ever be remembered as the PM who partied whilst the Queen mourned.

[Redsnappa]

You’ve missed off John Houlding, Tory mayor of Liverpool.

My favourite money-grubbing Conservative Landlord 

[royhendo]

https://twitter.com/sarm0161/status/1655194745579118595

[Dim Glas]

Im not scouse or English for that matter, and I became a Liverpool famn at a very early stage having spent so much
time in Aldre Hey.

I just happen to share the same political values as most Scousers. However yesterday taught me that we do have Scouse, Tory, Royalists among our match going fan base.
Its not always so simplistic.

I am aware. Just pointing out that for me - I find they are the ones who will push the point to seperate the club and city, because they know where the feelings of the people lie (generally). Liverpool FC is first and formost Liverpool the city’s club, and more than most other clubs, there is a social, and yes often left wing leaning within the fanbase and very much the city - it’d be odd if there wasn’t.  And I think that makes those who are on the right side uncomfortable, hence wanting to seperate it (no politics in football is the refrain usually, for those who don’t like the politics of a large section of said clubs' fanbase). That’s just my view. I can’t imagine supporting the club and not somehow been emotionally attached to the city - and with that often comes the political climate of the city past and present, I just think the two are linked, far stronger with LFC that it is with other clubs. But nothing wrong with not been arsed about the social/cultural/political side of course.

[Kenny's Jacket]

https://twitter.com/sarm0161/status/1655194745579118595

Hes getting labelled a OOT and a bad Wool, but some scousers at the match were just like him.
The local fanbase is not a complete homogeneous voice

[Macc77]

Thankfully, he survived it all, as did my Dad's dad - he spent most of the war fighting the Japanese in Burma.

Same as my Nan's brother, remember some amazing and horrifying stories as a kid. He then ended up in Germany post war, married a local girl and so for my entire life we've just had this bunch of Germans in our family who we visited and visited us. Apparently I was conceived in West Berlin, but I never asked too many questions on that. The girl he married died last year, 100 years old, quite a lady.

As for England, there are loads of brilliant places in the country. I lived in London for a decade, have good mates in Brighton which a great place, I love the Lake District, the Northumberland coast, etc, we have some wonderful places on our doorstep and I often find myself looking out of a train window thankful that I live here, but is that pride or just realisation that I'm relatively lucky compared to billions of others that live in far worse day to day situations? I don't know, but not sure it matters.

The important thing for me is loving your family and friends, the things you love, your pastimes and devotions, the place you live and the places your loved ones live. For me that's always been wrapped up in Merseyside and Liverpool but for others is rooted in country, and I have no issue with that. I now live in Cheshire and I'm happy here for now, and it's very much England and I like it, but I don't feel any conflict there.

My hatred for the establishment and the people who tried to stamp our city out never leaves me, and I find that stuff that entered my head as a kid and a young man still dictates how I feel about the world, and it is very much in tune with the response at Anfield last night, and it always will be.

But each to their own, and my attitude has always been that anybody who respects and values the culture and history of  both the club and the city is someone I'll stand beside and defend, wherever they're from. OP, ignore the background noise, be yourself, keep supporting the Reds.

[Dim Glas]

Hes getting labelled a OOT and a bad Wool, but some scouserc at thed math were just likre him.
The local fanbase is not a complete homogeneous voice

Is anyone saying they are?

Anyway, as for that flag on the Kop, Keep Flags Scouse means it should have been jettisoned regardless 

[Kenny's Jacket]

I am aware. Just pointing out that for me - I find they are the ones who will push the point to seperate the club and city, because they know where the feelings of the people lie (generally). Liverpool FC is first and formost Liverpool the city’s club, and more than most other clubs, there is a social, and yes often left wing leaning within the fanbase and very much the city - it’d be odd if there wasn’t.  And I think that makes those who are on the right side uncomfortable, hence wanting to seperate it (no politics in football is the refrain usually, for those who don’t like the politics of a large section of said clubs' fanbase). That’s just my view. I can’t imagine supporting the club and not somehow been emotionally attached to the city - and with that often comes the political climate of the city past and present, I just think the two are linked, far stronger with LFC that it is with other clubs. But nothing wrong with not been arsed about the social/cultural/political side of course.

Yes, leave politics out of football was heard in my section yesterday.

[A Red Abroad]

Same as my Nan's brother, remember some amazing and horrifying stories as a kid. He then ended up in Germany post war, married a local girl and so for my entire life we've just had this bunch of Germans in our family who we visited and visited us. Apparently I was conceived in West Berlin, but I never asked too many questions on that. The girl he married died last year, 100 years old, quite a lady.

Cool. 

But each to their own, and my attitude has always been that anybody who respects and values the culture and history of the both the club and the city is someone I'll stand beside and defend, wherever they're from. OP, ignore the background noise, be yourself, keep supporting the Reds.

Agreed.

[rob1966]

Look at it this way - Boris Fucking Johnson is the last person who should be lecturing anybody when it comes to moral behaviour.

He should ever be remembered as the PM who partied whilst the Queen mourned.

[A Red Abroad]

Is anyone saying they are?

Anyway, as for that flag on the Kop, Keep Flags Scouse means it should have been jettisoned regardless

 

[Kenny's Jacket]

Is anyone saying they are?

Anyway, as for that flag on the Kop, Keep Flags Scouse means it should have been jettisoned regardless 

No, The original Poster felt marginalised by being a royalist, I was pointing out that some local fans share those views

[A Red Abroad]

No, The original Poster felt marginalised by being a royalist, I was pointing out that some local fans share those views

He wrote that he's NOT a Royalist though... just 'a proud Englishman'.