Topic: The Klopp Template

[KirkVanHouten]

The worry about this system is what do we do if Trent is out for a long period. The system will not be as effective without him, and we do not have a replacement for him.

Well, it's a very hard player to get a backup for. Who else is like him? I think we'd revert to a different system without him.

[Knight]

The system was hugely reliant on Trent in his old position too tbf. Not sure it's a huge change in that sense.

[n00bert]

My recollection is that the complaints then were more about the trio of Trent, Harvey and Salah.  Harvey's interpretation of the RCM role was very different to Hendo's and there was some feeling that his style was leaving Trent more exposed and squeezing Salah's space such that he drifted extremely wide.

I may be muddling two issues though 

My recollection was where Trent was receiving the ball relative to the rest of the team. We were getting killed in transition, mostly because of a poor counter press, leaving huge gaps to play through and a lot of diags into the RB space that Trent vacated made everyone look shit.

The two most obvious things that have changed with this new shape is the introduction of Curtis into the team the impact he has in our counter press and how much higher we are playing. And it’s not pressing for pressing sake, a lot of it is very intelligent pressing to stop the quick ball out. That ball will always be there but earlier in the season within two passes from a turnover you can have midfielder pretty much quarter-backing it to a runner into the RB space. Hasn’t happened as often. Also Gakpo has been vital in this regard.

Also, I think the training pitch stuff about where players are relative to Trent is important. Feel that helps so much more with the counter press. We’re also learning that if we’re getting played through it’s ok to abandon the press and get into shape, for some reason the players seemed determined to win ‘best impersonation of a headless chicken’ award earlier in the year.

[Knight]

As usual, rumours of our demise were greatly exaggerated, and things are never as bad as the whingers and mood hoovers on here try to make us believe.

This can easily be put the other way too. Sometimes things are much worse than the optimists on here try to make us believe. For significant portions of this season we were broken, just look at the points tally you yourself posted! And yet when posters questioned whether we'd even get top 4 back in the autumn, they were scorned. Turned out that the signs of our malaise were evidence of significant problems and the, 'we'll still challenge for the title' posters were a million miles off.

Then of course there's the fact that what equals 'a demise' and 'bad' is a moving target. Before the season started if you said we'd be pretty big underdogs to get top 4 going into the final 2 games of our season, everyone on here would have said that was an awful season and a significant 'demise'. But because of the way round we've collected those points you're able to say the above. But just take a step back a bit and try to get past the recency bias, and look at the season as a whole and it's totally legitimate to point out the colossal drop off. A drop off which, if we finish 5th, will have been extremely costly.

[Coolie High]

This can easily be put the other way too. Sometimes things are much worse than the optimists on here try to make us believe. For significant portions of this season we were broken, just look at the points tally you yourself posted! And yet when posters questioned whether we'd even get top 4 back in the autumn, they were scorned. Turned out that the signs of our malaise were evidence of significant problems and the, 'we'll still challenge for the title' posters were a million miles off.

Then of course there's the fact that what equals 'a demise' and 'bad' is a moving target. Before the season started if you said we'd be pretty big underdogs to get top 4 going into the final 2 games of our season, everyone on here would have said that was an awful season and a significant 'demise'. But because of the way round we've collected those points you're able to say the above. But just take a step back a bit and try to get past the recency bias, and look at the season as a whole and it's totally legitimate to point out the colossal drop off. A drop off which, if we finish 5th, will have been extremely costly.

We have never been far away, even in our worst seasons, its been a sign of the fact that with better investment we would have probably challenged City in every season, and i don't mean investment comparable to City, but investment in terms of net spend comparable to our other rivals in the PL.

[Knight]

Oh yeah, we needed 2 CMs last summer and if we'd had them I suspect City would have been pushed all the way. A team can be broken, as at times we have been (thank goodness for Allison or we'd have been relegation level in terms of our defence at times) and also be pretty close to being brilliant again. That's especially true when Klopp's in charge. Fine lines.

[Larse]

I think with Lahm, he just became a CM, and they played with a right back. Maybe he did it with Kimmich? He also started as an RB but was a midfielder.

I'm pretty sure Guardiola did trial a system where both full backs came into midfield to stop counters higher up, and left his wingers wider out, and then had his 8s pushing further forward through the middle.

I'd say Guardiola also started using Cancelo as a kind of extra midfield playmaker before Arteta did it with Zinchenko or we did it with Trent or Ancelloti tried it with Camavinga. No idea if other people were doing similar before him though.

Peps inverted Fullbacks definitely started already when he was at bayern. He started with Alaba and Lahm both playing as inverted Fullbacks until Lahm became a CM fulltime. I dont remember exactly what his next step was but I think he then used Alaba/Rafinha as inverted Fulbacks an Lahm as a CM/DM in the middle. Its all in the book about his first season at Bayern Munich. Think the book is called "Herr Guardiola" and is actually a really good read for everybody interested.

[Dave McCoy]

It went from Alaba - Lahm inverting to Alaba - Kimmich. It's all about blocking the passing lanes in the middle because in the Bundesliga it was all about midfield transitions. He was also playing 3 wingers behind Lewa so the extra legs in midfield were needed, especially as 2 of the 3 were old men Robben and Ribery.

The circumstances then changed in the PL because in that first season he kept getting beat with balls over the top instead of transitions through the middle. But even then by the 2nd season he was using Delph as a full back who would invert and just being more conservative with the CB's positioning.

As far as what we should do if Trent is hurt/rested, the exact same thing. Just play another CB. Play Gomez or new CB at RB and then let Robbo or the LB push up instead. In essence you're just switching it around. The LCM would then sit next to the DM. It would functionally almost look and act the same.

[slotmachine]

Go and get Cancelo then we have the best inverted LB in the world along with TAA the best inverted RB in the world. We also have cover if TAA misses time because Cancelo can play both sides and is a ridiculous footballer. It will never happen of course because the oil cheats would never sell to us.

[lionel_messias]

Go and get Cancelo then we have the best inverted LB in the world along with TAA the best inverted RB in the world. We also have cover if TAA misses time because Cancelo can play both sides and is a ridiculous footballer. It will never happen of course because the oil cheats would never sell to us.

Seems Arsenal have the same idea as you. City should probably
block that move too and keep Cancelo in the same holiday home as Kalvin Phillips.

[royhendo]

Thoroughly recommend the Anfield Index Under Pressure podcast this week and the related data viz work they’ve posted around the new set up and how players are performing differently.

https://twitter.com/AnfieldIndex/status/1658730348946046977

[royhendo]

Left side active in different ways (sides targeting the gap behind Trent ironically leaving themselves vulnerable on that side), and the mid line sweeping of Fabinho and Gakpo - massive areas of coverage. Maybe Fabinho has longevity as a result of the tweak.

[killer-heels]

How do you mean left line active?

Props to Gakpo, his pressing continues to improve.

[MonsLibpool]

Trent looking good. A ball carrier like Jones complements him. Gakpo's pressing is underrated. Can see why Jurgen loves him.

[Draex]

Trent exploding and Jones an utter beast. Lovely stuff.

[Knight]

Desperately need another 8 who's able to play between the lines for this system to work. I've got no idea how Elliot cannot get a game given the way we're now setup. Also need a much more mobile 6.

[tubby]

Henderson looks lost in this formation, it just doesn't suit him at all.  The only spot for him would be as the holding 6 next to Trent.

[Draex]

Henderson looks lost in this formation, it just doesn't suit him at all.  The only spot for him would be as the holding 6 next to Trent.

The "float cross" from the right is like me smashing my head against a board of rusty nails.

[tubby]

The "float cross" from the right is like me smashing my head against a board of rusty nails.

Yep.  Just whip it across.

[DelTrotter]

Desperately need another 8 who's able to play between the lines for this system to work. I've got no idea how Elliot cannot get a game given the way we're now setup. Also need a much more mobile 6.

Just got one thankfully, it's painful to watch currently :


Gastón Edul
@gastonedul
·
22m
·
Alexis Mac Allister va a ser jugador de Liverpool.

[jepovic]

Trent has become a bigger defensive problem with the new system. First the penalty came after an attack in the space he left, and then he missed his marking at the goal.
If you watch Trent when we lose the ball, he is all over the place defensively. Sometimes at RB, sometimes at CB, sometimes near Fabinho.
He's a great footballer, but he's no machine in defense. This is asking too much of him.

[killer-heels]

Just got one thankfully, it's painful to watch currently :


Gastón Edul
@gastonedul
·
22m
·
Alexis Mac Allister va a ser jugador de Liverpool.

Need better than him.

[DelTrotter]

Need better than him.

You absolutely idolised him. Then he was linked with us and now you hate him 

[Clint Eastwood]

Henderson looks lost in this formation, it just doesn't suit him at all.  The only spot for him would be as the holding 6 next to Trent.

Yeah, sees too much of the ball.

Signing more technical midfielders rather than the Milners/Ginis/Hendos makes a lot of sense after seeing that game. We will be needing different things from them in this system.

Never seen us struggle to take advantage of a high line like that. Passing was off in general but still. Lots of work to do in summer.

[Knight]

Yeah, sees too much of the ball.

Signing more technical midfielders rather than the Milners/Ginis/Hendos makes a lot of sense after seeing that game. We will be needing different things from them in this system.

Never seen us struggle to take advantage of a high line like that. Passing was off in general but still. Lots of work to do in summer.

Peak Mane, Salah, Firmino absolutely destroy that high line. Pretty concerning that our forwards couldn't take advantage. It wasn't just the passing at fault.

[jepovic]

Yeah, sees too much of the ball.

Signing more technical midfielders rather than the Milners/Ginis/Hendos makes a lot of sense after seeing that game. We will be needing different things from them in this system.

Never seen us struggle to take advantage of a high line like that. Passing was off in general but still. Lots of work to do in summer.

Yeah, you can see the difference when Gakpo moves into CM and he just shakes off pressure with a feint or two. That's what we need.

[killer-heels]

You absolutely idolised him. Then he was linked with us and now you hate him 

Thats when we were getting Bellingham, a tactically flexible player. But all reports indicate he is our top choice midfielder.

[SerbianScouser]

Lots of positives this season with the new shape that we can build upon in the new season.

One thing that doesn't work is the width at home against the lesser sides. The roles of Jones and Henderson at that regard will need looking into. Positionally they are closer to touchline than to the middle of the pitch. Doubt it'll work in the long run.

Also unless we somehow improve on Bobby and Mane in terms of numbers I doubt we'll be able to carry a midfielder with 0 goals entire season.

[KirkVanHouten]

Peak Mane, Salah, Firmino absolutely destroy that high line. Pretty concerning that our forwards couldn't take advantage. It wasn't just the passing at fault.

Came in here to post the exact same thing. The left side of the pitch was so open, Mane would have been getting in behind constantly. Diaz is still on his way back, but he doesn't seem as much of a goal threat as Mane was which is a bit concerning. Our passing has turned to shit though. Virg can't hit diagonals, Mo's short passing was abysmal, the mids kept selling eachother into trouble with bad passes.

[killer-heels]

Lots of positives this season with the new shape that we can build upon in the new season.

One thing that doesn't work is the width at home against the lesser sides. The roles of Jones and Henderson at that regard will need looking into. Positionally they are closer to touchline than to the middle of the pitch. Doubt it'll work in the long run.

Also unless we somehow improve on Bobby and Mane in terms of numbers I doubt we'll be able to carry a midfielder with 0 goals entire season.

Gakpo can bag a few but neither Jota nor Diaz get Mane numbers.

Yeah I dont like how wide the midfielders go, that should be Diaz and Mo’s job.

[MonsLibpool]

Lots of positives this season with the new shape that we can build upon in the new season.

One thing that doesn't work is the width at home against the lesser sides. The roles of Jones and Henderson at that regard will need looking into. Positionally they are closer to touchline than to the middle of the pitch. Doubt it'll work in the long run.

Also unless we somehow improve on Bobby and Mane in terms of numbers I doubt we'll be able to carry a midfielder with 0 goals entire season.

No matter what our aim is next season, we need to be beating the "lesser" sides consistently. That's the foundation for achieving anything.

[shank94]

One trophy confirmed next season, unless we play Sevilla in the final.

[killer-heels]

Ive said before there is something a bit off about our attack.

[macmanamanaman]

One trophy confirmed next season, unless we play Sevilla in the final.

The Sevilla cup will have Sevilla in the final.
Unless they win it this year and are in the CL next.

[AndyMuller]

Nice of Mac Allister to say “yes” to us by all accounts.

A Brighton player saying “yes” to Liverpool after debating it, crazy times.

[shank94]

The Sevilla cup will have Sevilla in the final.
Unless they win it this year and are in the CL next.

They'll drop down from the CL Group stage to Sevilla it again

[RedG13]

Desperately need another 8 who's able to play between the lines for this system to work. I've got no idea how Elliot cannot get a game given the way we're now setup. Also need a much more mobile 6.

I think elliott minutes are being managed a little at the end of the season after not playing much last season and he did struggle a little at the end.
Mount would be good that right side also
Mac Allister would make sense to be able to play with Jones or in his role too.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Ive said before there is something a bit off about our attack.

At our best we have a minimum of two consistent goal scorers in our front three. First it was Salah and Mane with Firmino supporting but the last few seasons we had Salah, Mane and Jota, three goal scorers.

Today we had Gakpo and Diaz who are both 1 in 4 players. I think you can get away with one of them playing but not both at the same time too often.

[killer-heels]

At our best we have a minimum of two consistent goal scorers in our front three. First it was Salah and Mane with Firmino supporting but the last few seasons we had Salah, Mane and Jota, three goal scorers.

Today we had Gakpo and Diaz who are both 1 in 4 players. I think you can get away with one of them playing but not both at the same time too often.

Its doable but we would need to see an increase in their productivity. Also lets be honest there is absolutely no way we can have two number 10’s and they not chip in with more goals. Curtis is which is good but Henderson looks lost.

[MonsLibpool]

At our best we have a minimum of two consistent goal scorers in our front three. First it was Salah and Mane with Firmino supporting but the last few seasons we had Salah, Mane and Jota, three goal scorers.

Today we had Gakpo and Diaz who are both 1 in 4 players. I think you can get away with one of them playing but not both at the same time too often.

Goals are vital when it comes to beating the worst teams. You can't have enough players that can bag a goal against a tight defence. Makes a BIG difference.