First up, J...no need to apologise la...imagine how boring it would be without the diversity seen in this thread alone.
I can understand people not digging Jazz.
I don't like jazz-rock..it's everything JB mentioned, for me..it always seems like the musicians are playing for themselves and while that is also a part of Bop, Bop at it's heart is musicians pushing at their musical boundaries and in doing so testing their own techniques and ability to play these difficult melodies and rhythms. Bop was also a rebellion against Swing, which was all about dancing, Bop was set out as the opposite of swing, no dancing, you have to listen. I've come to the idea that Bop is to Jazz what punk was to rock...young Turks expressing themselves in a manner unheard of before and in doing so leaving the older version of the music behind. We also have take into our thoughts that most of the players who were to the fore in Bop had cut their chops playing in big bands and felt constrained by the music they had to play. This morning on a ride I listened to Gov't Mule playing an acoustic version of the ABB piece, Kind Of Bird, and Warren plays it beautifully..and it made think of Colotrane stretching himself and also the difficulty that the players experienced trying to interperatate Monk's chordal innovations on Brilliant Corners..I like to see and hear musicians stepping out of their comfort zones...in all music...Bop always does that for me.
I can really dig the thought about the Tangerine piece, that was the reason I mentioned him being a great technician....it's not.....accessible, there's a lack of feeling in the tune...Mose or Lennie...Mose plays with soul and humour, Lennie, he's a great impov pianist...he lacks soul in his playing, for me anyway.
I suppose for myself like the Blues, Bop was introduced to me as a child and it took a long time, nearly ten years before I realised what it was I was listening to...I think for most musical tastes are down to...the time that you're a teen, your friends, your experiences and whom you take your influences from. I'm a child of the 70's and my main influence was a man whose jammed all over the world from the vessels he sailed and whose first love was Delta Blues. I love Jazz simply because it's fearless, it's beyond definition I think.
As to the vocals...you never listen to Dizzy scat....that word has a different meaning nowadays.
I remember reading Benny Green saying there's no such thing as a Jazz vocalist-it's just an instrument...personally, I think he got that wrong, badly.
As I say, Bop you listen to.....you wanna dance....there's loads of stuff to dance to...even if your hips are sore.
