Topic: Euro 2020 (2021) Chat & Final MATCH THREAD

[Gili Gulu]

The way those two centre-mids played yesterday, England might as well have played with ten men. No passing progression, no interceptions, didn't press the ball, hardly a tackle, didn't protect the defence, just shuttled the ball from side to side or backwards. Both were absolutely shocking, with Rice being particularly egregious as he has more experience.

[Fromola]

The way those two centre-mids played yesterday, England might as well have played with ten men. No passing progression, no interceptions, didn't press the ball, hardly a tackle, didn't protect the defence, just shuttled the ball from side to side or backwards. Both were absolutely shocking, with Rice being particularly egregious as he has more experience.

Everyone was gushing over Phillips and Rice last week.

Southgate did them no favours yesterday keeping them on and not changing the system. It should have been Grealish on for one of them and took the game to Scotland. Then Hendo on for the other. Sancho for Sterling and even DCL on for Kane. Why does he keep bringing Rashford on?

[Crosby Nick]

Funny one with England. They do get talked up beyond their abilities but at the same time the front four last night for example have all started a Champions League Final. They should have more than enough for a lot of teams at this tournament.

That ones down to the gulf in coaching ability between Southgate and their club managers I think. It’s hard to watch England and know what they’re trying to do at times.

[Barneylfc∗]

So the Scots are celebrating a draw? Is that how shit they are?

Someone still a wee bit bitter they didn't win? The sooner you accept England are shite and have no chance of winning the tournament the better.

[Crosby Nick]

Everyone was gushing over Phillip's and Rice last week.

Phillips played well against Croatia. It might be a bit unfair to single (double?) those two out. Henderson and Dier used to get grief for not creating enough. It’s almost like Southgate just wants two out and out sitters. The problem with them last night is they weren’t really closing the spaces down very well either. And then the front four didn’t creat a lot (or anything).

[Fromola]

So the Scots are celebrating a draw? Is that how shit they are?

If I was an England fan I'd be very relieved not to lose.

Whether it was a good result for Scotland will be known on Tuesday night. It's a bad result if they don't beat Croatia.

[Cruiser]

Someone still a wee bit bitter they didn't win? The sooner you accept England are shite and have no chance of winning the tournament the better.

I don't support them dude. Just noticed the Bitter-like celebrations from the Scots. Cringey as fuck.

[jillcwhomever]

Scotland have played both games with a lot of spirit and determination but what has really surprised me is the lack of composure in the final third.

[Gili Gulu]

Everyone was gushing over Phillips and Rice last week.

Southgate did them no favours yesterday keeping them on and not changing the system. It should have been Grealish on for one of them and took the game to Scotland. Then Hendo on for the other. Sancho for Sterling and even DCL on for Kane. Why does he keep bringing Rashford on?

I think that would have been the right thing to do if England needed to win, and/or if the rest of the team was in any way functional. There were too many substitutions required, so Southgate was probably best doing what he did and substituting like for like and making sure they got at least a draw.

Sterling, Kane and Foden were also all stinking the place out. Kane looked like he'd just finished running a marathon a day for the past week. Sterling's decision making is absolutely gone. Foden is finding out what it's like when you're not playing in a team when your 10 team mates can outplay the opposition on their own, and leave you to float about in spaces other players create doing what you want.

[Fromola]

Phillips played well against Croatia. It might be a bit unfair to single (double?) those two out. Henderson and Dier used to get grief for not creating enough. It’s almost like Southgate just wants two out and out sitters. The problem with them last night is they weren’t really closing the spaces down very well either. And then the front four didn’t creat a lot (or anything).

That system is so outdated. If you're going to have that formation with the 2 sitters you need one to create as well and one to just do the nitty gritty. Mascherano and Alonso for example.

Phillips got them the assist that beat Croatia and played well, so he's got it in his locker at least. The team is set up to fail tactically.

I think because England lack a genuine holding midfielder (behind a suspect defence) it leaves Southgate more weary to commit men forward.

[sinnermichael]

[Crosby Nick]

That system is so outdated. If you're going to have that formation with the 2 sitters you need one to create as well and one to just do the nitty gritty. Mascherano and Alonso for example.

Phillips got them the assist that beat Croatia and played well, so he's got it in his locker at least. The team is set up to fail tactically.

I don’t disagree.

[Fromola]

I think that would have been the right thing to do if England needed to win, and/or if the rest of the team was in any way functional. There were too many substitutions required, so Southgate was probably best doing what he did and substituting like for like and making sure they got at least a draw.

Sterling, Kane and Foden were also all stinking the place out. Kane looked like he'd just finished running a marathon a day for the past week. Sterling's decision making is absolutely gone. Foden is finding out what it's like when you're not playing in a team when your 10 team mates can outplay the opposition on their own, and leave you to float about in spaces other players create doing what you want.

Perhaps but that caution holds England back. Look at the Croatia semi final.

[kaesarsosei]

                 Pickford

James  Stones   Maguire    Shaw/Chilwell

          Henderson  Philipps

    Foden       Mount        Grealish

                    DCL


That is what England should be doing.

[Gili Gulu]

Perhaps but that caution holds England back. Look at the Croatia semi final.

Yes, in group games, Southgate's innate caution (or lack of imagination) works. In knockout games where England need to win he comes unstuck, as he gets tactically out-thought, favours over-regimentation, and fails to back creative players to also be able to do hard work, while trusting to luck that his favoured hard-workers will somehow manage to also be creative.

[Yorkykopite]

I think the rest of Europe would have been encouraged by that display last night - if they had the patience to sit through it all. It was a horrible advert for British football and showed how strong the pull of the past is, despite all the technical and tactical improvements that have happened in the last decade or so. Towards the end it looked more like the Eton Wall game than footy, with loads of English and Scots players piled on top of each other and the ball nowhere to be seen. It's probably unfair to say the Scots dragged the English down to their level, though in one sense that's what happened and may indeed have been the Scottish plan. Fair play to them. They got their point. What good it will do them in the long run who knows? Their centre forward? Jesus. The absolute epitome of a pub player. That Kane was hardly any better speaks volumes about the hype surrounding him.

It was a shame that the best two players on the pitch largely cancelled each other out. Foden is some talent. He wasn't plugged into the rest of his team, but you could see why he's such a pivotal player for Guardiola. A brilliant footballer already. But he couldn't quite liberate himself from the attentions of Andy Robertson. It was Foden's rotten luck to come up against the best full back of the tournament - quick, decisive, intuitive in his movement and an attacking force to boot.

Talking of full backs. Reece James was dreadful. Ponderous on the ball, slow to turn and lacking any creativity. And without Azipilicueta behind him quite easy to attack too.

[Crosby Nick]

Anyway, today’s games...Portugal v Germany should be a cracker in the old format of two teams qualifying. However Germany can possibly even afford to lose and batter Hungary to go through so hasn’t quite got the jeopardy it should have. Hopefully will still be a good game though.

You’d think France should win comfortably enough and Spain probably will beat Poland but could see that being a draw.

[Red-Soldier]

Anyway, today’s games...Portugal v Germany should be a cracker in the old format of two teams qualifying. However Germany can possibly even afford to lose and batter Hungary to go through so hasn’t quite got the jeopardy it should have. Hopefully will still be a good game though.

You’d think France should win comfortably enough and Spain probably will beat Poland but could see that being a draw.

I agree.  Hopefully, it'll be an enjoyable watch.

[Fromola]

Yes, in group games, Southgate's innate caution (or lack of imagination) works. In knockout games where England need to win he comes unstuck, as he gets tactically out-thought, favours over-regimentation, and fails to back creative players to also be able to do hard work, while trusting to luck that his favoured hard-workers will somehow manage to also be creative.

Against weak opposition. The Croatia team of 3 years ago (and/or at a neutral venue) would have got something against them as well which would have made it a more interesting game yesterday with England's approach. England looked like a team who knew they were going through anyway, Scotland looked like a team fighting for their lives.

[Andypandimonium]

Fairly good chance the winner of the tourny comes from Group F. Italy might have something to say about that and Belgium might outscore everyone, but as an ex-bookie I would be offering short-odds on that event. And I would be laying England by the bucket-load!

#notcominghome

[Cormack Snr]

Surprised to see anyone in here that is even remotely invested in England. Are there really Liverpool fans out there who give a flying fuck about England?

The England footbal team is probably the most hated sports institution across the world for a variety of reasons, but even for footballing reasons alone there is enough to dislike them. The only reason I ever want to see England do well is so they can embarass themselves in the latter stages of tournaments. I really, really want to see what Italy or France would do to this team.

I was talking to a young Northern Irish lad who was amazed that an awful lot of Liverpool born Liverpool supporters don't have any interest in the England team.
My Dad in his late 80's, me in my 60's and my son in his late 30's are not too bothered if they win , lose or draw. My Grandson who is nine wanted them to win because he said we live in England..

[Dim Glas]

I don't support them dude. Just noticed the Bitter-like celebrations from the Scots. Cringey as fuck.

with football, there is always context. But for some reasons some fans like to pretend there isn’t.

In terms of population of both countries, in terms of footballing infastructure, in terms of talent available, the 2 are a million miles apart.

Of course they will celebrate a very good performance away from home vs their biggest ‘enemy’.  It’d be really really odd if they didn’t.

It isn’t cringey, it’s a bit sad to think it is to be honest. It was great to see them play well and get to celebrate it. 

[rafathegaffa83]

PL refs have the first two matches: Oliver reffing France-Hungary; Taylor has got Portugal-Germany

[Wullie160975]

I don't support them dude. Just noticed the Bitter-like celebrations from the Scots. Cringey as fuck.

Interesting. You seem to have the narrative we're celebrating England not winning last night.
 
Now while that will always be the case in games they lose that we don't play against them, we're celebrating a performance against a team that with the players you have should really wipe the floor with us.

[Wullie160975]

I think the rest of Europe would have been encouraged by that display last night - if they had the patience to sit through it all. It was a horrible advert for British football and showed how strong the pull of the past is, despite all the technical and tactical improvements that have happened in the last decade or so. Towards the end it looked more like the Eton Wall game than footy, with loads of English and Scots players piled on top of each other and the ball nowhere to be seen. It's probably unfair to say the Scots dragged the English down to their level, though in one sense that's what happened and may indeed have been the Scottish plan. Fair play to them. They got their point. What good it will do them in the long run who knows? Their centre forward? Jesus. The absolute epitome of a pub player. That Kane was hardly any better speaks volumes about the hype surrounding him.

It was a shame that the best two players on the pitch largely cancelled each other out. Foden is some talent. He wasn't plugged into the rest of his team, but you could see why he's such a pivotal player for Guardiola. A brilliant footballer already. But he couldn't quite liberate himself from the attentions of Andy Robertson. It was Foden's rotten luck to come up against the best full back of the tournament - quick, decisive, intuitive in his movement and an attacking force to boot.

Talking of full backs. Reece James was dreadful. Ponderous on the ball, slow to turn and lacking any creativity. And without Azipilicueta behind him quite easy to attack too.

A few weeks rest and already looks a bit more like his old self

[MD1990]

Declan Rice is a good player.

But he was a CB & plays in a West Ham side which isnt one of the most technical or possesion based in the PL.
I dont think he will ever be a top class CM. He is playing as England are not developing many CM's bar Bellingham.

Henderson & Trent would add quite alot of creativity on the right side in that England team.

[MD1990]

Interesting. You seem to have the narrative we're celebrating England not winning last night.
 
Now while that will always be the case in games they lose that we don't play against them, we're celebrating a performance against a team that with the players you have should really wipe the floor with us.

Scotland were very good against Czech Republic.

the result clouded people's opinion about that game. They were the better side. The 2 goals they conceded were world class finishes

[harleydanger]

Don’t know how Rashford is getting on before Sancho

[kesey]

I turned it off after about 15 minutes as it was shit. Before the game I was having a quick pint and the lady on the telly about 20 minutes before kick off says the atmosphere is electric. I mean for fucksake the ground was empty. Top stuff that love. I switched it back on in about the 80th minute to see both teams passing the ball sideways for a few minutes and the fella commentating says ... this is edge of the seat stuff this. I mean for fucksake again and switched it off.

[BarryCrocker]

Don’t know how Rashford is getting on before Sancho

Trying to keep his value down by not giving him a moment to shine.

[Elmo!]

If anything it stinks like the Bitters celebrating a draw against us because we dropped 2 points as a result. Its the pinnacle of their season. Lowtime football.

Seems pretty low time complaining about fans celebrating a good result against our much bigger rivals.

[bird_lfc]

Feel like that midfield needed Hendo as well. Absolutely no leadership, Kane strikes me as a dreadful skipper

[B0151?]

I would be disappointed if I was Scottish personally. They played better than England and after a win first game a point is better for England than it is for them. England were there for the taking and no guarantee at all they will beat Croatia.

[jillcwhomever]

Seems pretty low time complaining about fans celebrating a good result against our much bigger rivals.

Are you surprised at how low on composure Scotland are in the final third, or where you expecting that? That's been my biggest surprise about Scotland and I include Robbo on that charge as well. I think defensively and in midfield you played some really good stuff, but that final third was quite disappointing, just very little composure when they had those chances.

[Elmo!]

Are you surprised at how low on composure Scotland are in the final third, or where you expecting that? That's been my biggest surprise about Scotland and I include Robbo on that charge as well. I think defensively and in midfield you played some really good stuff, but that final third was quite disappointing, just very little composure when they had those chances.

Not in the least bit surprised. 

[jillcwhomever]

Not in the least bit surprised. 

Fair enough, its the one part which needs some work to be honest. 

[B0151?]

Croatia Vs Scotland should be a really good game though with both teams needing the win.

[Wullie160975]

I was a bit surprised at Adams snatching the shot at the back post I have to say - thought (hoped?) he had a bit more about him than that.

[Red-Soldier]

Fairly good chance the winner of the tourny comes from Group F. Italy might have something to say about that and Belgium might outscore everyone, but as an ex-bookie I would be offering short-odds on that event. And I would be laying England by the bucket-load!

#notcominghome

You can always get good odds laying England, especially on home soil.  Mainly due to the patriotic betting skewing the odds.  Same with anything Irish too.  I've made a fair amount of money over the years, opposing Murray, the England football team, and Rory Mcllroy. 

[Crosby Nick]

I was a bit surprised at Adams snatching the shot at the back post I have to say - thought (hoped?) he had a bit more about him than that.

That was shocking! Ok the replay it was a difficult chance and he was outside the frame of the goal but surely you have to play the percentages and just steer it back across.Pickford was sprawling so anything back across him would have been hard to react to.

Good point and Scotland v Croatia with both needing to win. Don’t think there will be many final games that nicely poised.