Topic: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness – It’s all got to stop

[The Rawker]

Old Pie

Otters Protection. We're big on it here

 

Hilarious. 



'Original post'(cheers Steve)

[zuchum]

I'm irritated that the promised signings have dried up - and Comolli is yet to convince me he's good enough for his role. What's his claim to fame really? Signing Juande Ramos 

All I ask for is investment on three young, capable players who could change the game instantly. In other words, Coentrão, Hazard and Suárez. It may cost us £ 50 million, but believe me, a possible relegation would be even more expensive.

Signing players is no knee-jerk situation, we just need new blood into the squad now. And I don't care if it's difficult to get players in January or whether they're cup tied or anything. We need game-changers now, not to persist with the current squad of fragile individuals shitting their pants whenever they play away from Mom 

Aside from being fed-up with the word patience and long-term plan (they've done that for 20 years at Spurs haven't they  ), it's a good OP and I liked the newcomers' post too. But this is about our survival. I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

How can Comolli convince you?  He's been in the job 3 months, what can we expect so far?

And even if we could convince Hazard, Suarez et al. to come to Liverpool, how could we afford not only the transfer fees,but their wages?

Patience may be difficult, and frustrating, but as the old phrase goes, it is a virtue.

[Elm0]

Yes, good first post.

I think people need to remember that the players didnt deteriorate in 4 days, when everything was Roys fault, and also that with only 4 days in charge Dalglish cant have had a chance to do much yet. Give it time.

[Roslagen]

How can Comolli convince you?  He's been in the job 3 months, what can we expect so far?

And even if we could convince Hazard, Suarez et al. to come to Liverpool, how could we afford not only the transfer fees,but their wages?

Patience may be difficult, and frustrating, but as the old phrase goes, it is a virtue.

How about offering Babel to Ajax as part of the Suárez affair and Jova as part of the Hazard affair? Loan players out? Ever reflected on that?

[Cracking Left Foot]

Some great posts in here, especially the opening post.

I think part of the hangover from the H&G era is that a lot of us (and I'd include myself to some extent) have been left with a distrust of the people running the club. Which is, of course, totally unfair, as FSG have so far been brilliant owners. Far rather Henry and Werner than the jokers running Blackburn who think they can get to 5th place on a budget of £5m and putting in comedy bids for Ronaldinho and saying David Beckham can move to Ewood Park "whenever he feels ready".

Commolli seems to be favourite to be the new hate figure - there's many posters on here who say they don't trust him etc. There were even posts on here just before RH was sacked, criticising FSG, claiming they didn't care about the club. There was even a claim on Twitter this morning that FSG were planning on selling before the season was out!

There's only person in the current set-up who deserves our bile, and that's Cecil (and by all accounts, he has very little power these days). I truly believe that Kenny can resurrect us again (especially with Steve Clarke on board) but it's going to take time. This will be the biggest challenge of Kenny's career (football-wise) but if there's anyone who can do it, he can. I've already noticed differences on the pitch - it'll just take the players a few training sessions to translate onto the pitch.

Let's get behind the players, the managers and the club on Sunday and create a wall of sound that the Bitters will find hard to live with.

[Sachin4ever]

Regular starter or not, he was better than what our current wide players Kuyt, Cole, Jovanovic, Maxi and Babel have been. So you think Lucas is the same level as Mascherano do you? And you are measuring Dirk Kuyt’s current ability by how far Holland got in the World Cup? There’s some fucking warped logic floating around your brain.

Kuyt was given lot of praise for their road to world cup final.. that s what am trying to say. Kuyt plays like this most of the time.. His touch and passing was never great.. so why all of a sudden people are talking that he is not good because he has poor first touch n all...

As for benayoun, he was never consistent. He s a good sub player to have.. If he is as good as you say, he would be getting games in chelsea who are struggling ... Everyone thought cole would fill his role..but he did not..
 
And regarding lucas, he is no mascherano. but he is always improving. his performance against chelsea and mancs and not allowing them to score in open play is a testimony to that. We are not having problems with DM position.

All am saying is we are not missing them as much as you say we are. For me, the most important reasons for our last seasons failure were injuries and aquilani (replacement for alonso).

I too agree with everyone saying we need new players to challenge and become a top team. But what am disagreeing with this people complaining that position where we are is due to the current squad. We should atleast be hovering around 7. But we are not.. This fault is not due to the quality of the squad. It is due to their under performing due to tactics, confidence, mentality, player power....

All i want is everyone to be pulling in right direction which it was not happening under Roy. But now we should stop being negative and support our team for better future... I cant wait for sunday to see united anfield after a long time even though half way across the world. .....

[wednesday25052005]

19 December 1959     LFC 0-4 Cardiff City

26 December 1959     Charlton Athletic 3-0 LFC

Should have sacked the new guy

Exactly

[armchair-fan]

Thats the cat. We get him and we'll be the most confident and well dressed team this Spring/Summer.

We'll look boss walking out on the pitch in Dublin. And as for our play!....Spin and twist and twirl and shimmy and pass an move.....you go girls!.....

Perhaps Gok in a role 'upstairs' and that 'Super Nanny' bird as 1st team coach '...one more sub-standard performance and you go and sit on the naughty step and don't come back until you can do better - and no more tweets either!!!'

[B.Red]

Perhaps Gok in a role 'upstairs' and that 'Super Nanny' bird as 1st team coach '...one more sub-standard performance and you go and sit on the naughty step and don't come back until you can do better - and no more tweets either!!!'

Anthea Turner has a good programme where she comes to your house and sorts it out good style. What I like about her is that she gets stuck in and's not afraid to put a bit of elbow grease into it. Maybe as new CEO?

[CHOPPER]

Anthea Turner has a good programme where she comes to your house and sorts it out good style. What I like about her is that she gets stuck in and's not afraid to put a bit of elbow grease into it. Maybe as new CEO?

or that fat moose who goes round cleaning stuff, she could polish a turd I reckon.

[B.Red]

or that fat moose who goes round cleaning stuff, she could polish a turd I reckon.

Leave my mother out of this!!

[armchair-fan]

or that fat moose who goes round cleaning stuff, she could polish a turd I reckon.

Or perhaps Tim Westwood to 'Pimp my Football Club'?  He could be the man to coax a performace out of Babel

[Barneylfc∗]

19 December 1959     LFC 0-4 Cardiff City

26 December 1959     Charlton Athletic 3-0 LFC

Should have sacked the new guy

I had these results ready for the whoppers and mancs when I came in to work today. Kenny has probably had 3, maybe 4 training sessions.

[B.Red]

Or perhaps Tim Westwood to 'Pimp my Football Club'?  He could be the man to coax a performace out of Babel

The irony of all this is that we actually do have a television executive as chairman of the club with such comedy hits as  The Cosby Show, Roseanne, 3rd Rock from the Sun and That 70s Show.

[annyrowed]

The irony of all this is that we actually do have a television executive as chairman of the club with such comedy hits as  The Cosby Show, Roseanne, 3rd Rock from the Sun and That 70s Show.

maybe he could get mila kunis across to give the guys some ....errrr...encouragement?.......i know it would work for me........

or perhaps too much of a distraction.......

[Mutton Geoff]

I know we're not playing at our best right now but if we can't catch fucking Sunderland by the end of the season in this shite league then we may all as well accept that the game is up for LFC.

WHY?




Sunderland ?

[LFConor]

The only bitterness we should be hearing is off the blue noses this sunday when we give em a good beating!

[Benitez Adoramus]

Don’t understand anything other than cause for optimism. Over 2 games, for 150 minutes or so we have played the best football we have seen for at least 18 months.

I agree. There were parts of the match last night where the only player in our half was Pepe. I actually believed we could score,  which I haven't felt at an away game since Spurs. We looked like a totally different team until they scored and the old doubts crept into players' heads. Once we get that away win it will boost their confidence no end. The players have had years of the media telling them they're crap e.g. if Torres doesn't score for a couple of games he wants away/is finished but Saha at the small club across the park has recently scored his first goal in 11 months (not the same class of player I'll grant you) yet not a word was said. It doesn't help that their last manager probably wasn't convincing them they were good enough either. As far as I'm concerned we've got our club back and Kenny coming back was like starting a new season. Unfortunately judging by the comments of some fans behind me last night, some people need to get out of the bad habits they've got into over the last few years and get behind the team by supporting the players instead of shouting abuse at them when things start to go wrong. 
I've been looking forward to games again and last night, especially in the first half, showed me glimpses of the exciting football we could soon be watching. It's not going to come overnight but the shoots of recovery are definitely there - for a start Nando was like a different person at the beginning of the match. When was the last time anyone remembers him smiling like he did when he scored the goal and he also posed for a photo with the mascots on the pitch before the game whereas recently he's had his head down.  Keep patient, keep supporting and keep positive and although we won't win silverware we can set the foundations for the future

[zuchum]

How about offering Babel to Ajax as part of the Suárez affair and Jova as part of the Hazard affair? Loan players out? Ever reflected on that?

I honestly don't think Lille would accept a 29 year old average player plus even 15 million for one of the most promising young players in Europe.
Similar with Ajax.

We're not going to get relegated, we're probably not going to get Champions League. It pains me to say it, but we're going to have to start building a new team like Rafa went about when he got here. This time, however, we have new owners and a clear strategy. Most of our team are getting on on terms of their careers, time to build for the future.

[Licky]

Top OP.

I just want to survive this season, and want to see a glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel, I believe we now have the man in place to do that, I'm not liking where we are, but for the first time in three years I feel at peace with LFC again.

[El Diablos]

The war is over time to lay down your weapons and get right behind the manager, players and owners.

Hear hear

We have a big job there's no denying that. We've had 3 years of war, of mismangement and under investment. The Rafa project that came so close has been pretty much ripped up. But if you're a club in trouble that knows it has some hard work to do, which club would you rather be? We're Liverpool FC and Kenny is in the dugout and i'll take that any day thank you. We know we have to fight but now its time to fight together.

Henry & Co, Kenny and Comolli now need time and patience and the right level of smart investment. On the latter if we do it right we should be able to do it within our budget now that we've plugged that 40m a year leak. Right now we should just drop our over analysis, not worry about short term expectations and give them the trust and support they'll need in the days ahead. Singing YNWA and FOAR and getting the atmosphere up to were it should be, like against St Etienne or the Chelsea semi, will give the team a massive lift, give Kenny the support he deserves and will let FSG know that despite a tricky start they've bought the best fucking club in the world.

[soxfan]

I know I sound like a broken record, but it needs to be repeated again and again... 

Those of us from America know how great these owners are. The Red Sox were chosen in polls by their 29 peers as having THE best owners in baseball. FSG are good people, smart people, caring people, and people who absolutely are driven to win. I don't know them personally and can only guess, but if they concentrate on Liverpool as they have the Red Sox, the glory days will return here in a few years.

We have Kenny in a big role, an excellent academy, excellent owners, a new/renovated stadium coming in a few years....This year may be ugly, but there are much happier days to come. Let's pull together, stop complaining about every little thing, and throw our support behind the club and the good people leading the charge. They deserve it.     

[Vulmea]

How about offering Babel to Ajax as part of the Suárez affair and Jova as part of the Hazard affair? Loan players out? Ever reflected on that?

 get on to Comolli let him know your plans ......let him know about any other highly publicised massively overpriced potential stars as well I think those guys fit right in to the type of deal we are looking for -  the idea of looking for value and spotting talent most have missed is well over rated  anyway

[Roslagen]

get on to Comolli let him know your plans ......let him know about any other highly publicised massively overpriced potential stars as well I think those guys fit right in to the type of deal we are looking for -  the idea of looking for value and spotting talent most have missed is well over rated  anyway

Do you think £ 17 million for a 23 year old guy who scored three goals in the World Cup and have already hit 92 league goals at his age is eh... overpriced  Well, quality costs my friend. For £ 5-6 millions we can only get players marginally better than PFK and CP, and that's not what we all want is it? There are small details separating the top guys from the average ones, like pace, first touch, footballing brain, and those differences wins or loses matches.

Period.

[planet-terror]

I know I sound like a broken record, but it needs to be repeated again and again... 

Those of us from America know how great these owners are. The Red Sox were chosen in polls by their 29 peers as having THE best owners in baseball. FSG are good people, smart people, caring people, and people who absolutely are driven to win. I don't know them personally and can only guess, but if they concentrate on Liverpool as they have the Red Sox, the glory days will return here in a few years.

We have Kenny in a big role, an excellent academy, excellent owners, a new/renovated stadium coming in a few years....This year may be ugly, but there are much happier days to come. Let's pull together, stop complaining about every little thing, and throw our support behind the club and the good people leading the charge. They deserve it. 

good post and to the point.................................................rerailing,,,,,,,,choo choo chooooooo..MAke way for Thomas

[Walk on, walk on]

I know I sound like a broken record, but it needs to be repeated again and again... 

Those of us from America know how great these owners are. The Red Sox were chosen in polls by their 29 peers as having THE best owners in baseball. FSG are good people, smart people, caring people, and people who absolutely are driven to win. I don't know them personally and can only guess, but if they concentrate on Liverpool as they have the Red Sox, the glory days will return here in a few years.

We have Kenny in a big role, an excellent academy, excellent owners, a new/renovated stadium coming in a few years....This year may be ugly, but there are much happier days to come. Let's pull together, stop complaining about every little thing, and throw our support behind the club and the good people leading the charge. They deserve it. 

This. Kenny and FSG, for me, deserves at least until the end of next season before we can judge their performance properly.

[Roy of the rovers]

I'm irritated that the promised signings have dried up - and Comolli is yet to convince me he's good enough for his role. What's his claim to fame really? Signing Juande Ramos 

All I ask for is investment on three young, capable players who could change the game instantly. In other words, Coentrão, Hazard and Suárez. It may cost us £ 50 million, but believe me, a possible relegation would be even more expensive.

Signing players is no knee-jerk situation, we just need new blood into the squad now. And I don't care if it's difficult to get players in January or whether they're cup tied or anything. We need game-changers now, not to persist with the current squad of fragile individuals shitting their pants whenever they play away from Mom 

Aside from being fed-up with the word patience and long-term plan (they've done that for 20 years at Spurs haven't they  ), it's a good OP and I liked the newcomers' post too. But this is about our survival. I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

I've got a suggestion. Why not read this post
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=268987.0

before you suggest Kenny steps aside again?

Just a suggestion, like

[Roy of the rovers]

How about offering Babel to Ajax as part of the Suárez affair and Jova as part of the Hazard affair? Loan players out? Ever reflected on that?

No, never. What a genius you must be!

[Walk on, walk on]

I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

This, with all due respect, is bullshit. If Kenny cannot motivate this team (which is more than capable of a top 10 finish by the way), what makes you think any manager (who happens to be magically available) will be able to?

Knee Jerkism - It’s all got to stop.

[Roslagen]

I've got a suggestion. Why not read this post
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=268987.0

before you suggest Kenny steps aside again?

Just a suggestion, like

Kenny is doing this for the clubs' sake and if it doesn't work he'll be the first to admit it.

I fully support Kenny, but just saying that no matter how lovely the man is, we need results soon again. Relegation battles are not about patience. There were good signs at Blackpool and at Old Trafford, but now that needs to be translated into results. But if anybody can turn this around, that's Kenny.

[FrancisTierney]

Once again it depends on what your school of thought is. I’ve always preferred brain over brawn and I find watching ugly football offensive.
 I’ve been saying it for the last two years, but if you haven’t got what Shanks used to call “clever “ players in your team, then your cream-crackered.
Admittedly you need some grit or you’re destined to be the bride-maids (Arsenal).
Let’s look at Barcelona….(or the Liverpool of the not too-distant past) .Clever feet. Every one of them a footballer. Defenders who could run a midfield,  light, quick  and comfortable on the ball. Pass and move to perfection with a footballing genius waiting to pounce. That’s the model that we need to be pursuing long-term.
We’ve concentrated far too much on the work ethic, brawn not brain and an engine room that’s been packed to the rafters with runners, water-carriers and hustlers.
You’re not going to win the premiership with that.
If  you’re subtle operators are not given a chance and you rely too much on the head -down run- all-over-the-fuckin-shop approach, mixed with the Blackburn/Barnsley up-and-under style players, you’re not only going to win fuck all but you’re not going to make many footballing friends either.
I loved Rafa but I would have loved him to have given Aquilani a real chance and/or brought in a real-playmaker when Xabi Alonso left.
Kenny unlike Roy will have seen this .But for the meantime, given the lack of ability and players who aren’t comfortable on the ball, we’ll have to hold tight for a bumpy ride. Patience is a virtue and there’s no point whingin’. Let’s wait and see what pans out.

This

[FrancisTierney]

As a matter of interest, would anyone be interested in Wright-Phillips or Santa Cruz?

[Roslagen]

As a matter of interest, would anyone be interested in Wright-Phillips or Santa Cruz?

No thanks. Both are injury-prone, approaching 30 and lacking confidence. Good fits for the current squad to be honest 

[keyop]

Great OP and sums it up perfectly for me.

I didn't expect us to go on a 10-match winning streak under Kenny either, but unfortunately many did - that's why they are posting such rubbish like little spoilt brats who didn't get all the presents they wanted.

I'm amazed at how short lived the Kenny euphoria was for some people - it's almost like they'd become conditioned to whining for the last 12 months, and couldn't hold it off for more than a week.

For all the reasons you mentioned, I am very optimistic about the club both on and off the pitch, and if Kenny, Steve Clarke and the new owners don't get people excited about the next 12 months then they are deluded.

[Roslagen]

Great OP and sums it up perfectly for me.

I didn't expect us to go on a 10-match winning streak under Kenny either, but unfortunately many did - that's why they are posting such rubbish like little spoilt brats who didn't get all the presents they wanted.

I'm amazed at how short lived the Kenny euphoria was for some people - it's almost like they'd become conditioned to whining for the last 12 months, and couldn't hold it off for more than a week.

For all the reasons you mentioned, I am very optimistic about the club both on and off the pitch, and if Kenny, Steve Clarke and the new owners don't get people excited about the next 12 months then they are deluded.

Talking about me, I find it unacceptable that he fielded Christian Poulsen, since I don't want to see that man wearing a Liverpool shirt ever again. When he plays, you lose anyway, so you might as well field Suso instead. At least the lad would gain some experience.

Success in football is dependant on results. Hodge Podge would've got away with his style had he racked up 1-0 victories, but he didn't.

As for expectations, we should never ever ever, resign to losing x2 to Blackpool in a season. I'm sure Kenny gave them a hairdryer like hell.

[Walk on, walk on]

Talking about me, I find it unacceptable that he fielded Christian Poulsen, since I don't want to see that man wearing a Liverpool shirt ever again. When he plays, you lose anyway, so you might as well field Suso instead. At least the lad would gain some experience.

Success in football is dependant on results. Hodge Podge would've got away with his style had he r acked up 1-0 victories, but he didn't.

Kenny coming in means the slate is clean for any player. No one should begrudge Kenny for giving CP a chance to prove himself. The criticism may come when he is played blatantly regardless of his crappiness, but not yet. It was only his first time playing CP ffs.

[planet-terror]

Talking about me, I find it unacceptable that he fielded Christian Poulsen, since I don't want to see that man wearing a Liverpool shirt ever again. When he plays, you lose anyway, so you might as well field Suso instead. At least the lad would gain some experience.

Success in football is dependant on results. Hodge Podge would've got away with his style had he racked up 1-0 victories, but he didn't.

As for expectations, we should never ever ever, resign to losing x2 to Blackpool in a season. I'm sure Kenny gave them a hairdryer like hell.

Bites tounge in our new spirit of togetherness

[Roslagen]

Kenny coming in means the slate is clean for any player. No one should begrudge Kenny for giving CP a chance to prove himself. The criticism may come when he is played blatantly regardless of his crappiness, but not yet. It was only his first time playing CP ffs.

I'm actually speechless. You're defending Christian Poulsen, the worst signing this century. What next, PFK for England 

[planet-terror]

I'm actually speechless. You're defending Christian Poulsen, the worst signing this century. What next, PFK for England 

Hes defending our players,manager and our club...Its a new start,,,,for EVERYONE,,,try it

[Walk on, walk on]

I'm actually speechless. You're defending Christian Poulsen, the worst signing this century. What next, PFK for England 

You need to learn how to read. I am not defending CP, I am defending Kenny's right to give all players a chance to prove their worth. ffs.