Topic: The Great Recruitment Panic

[Drinks Sangria]

So anyone who is working in a business right now is probably at least somewhat aware of the difficulty businesses are having recruiting.

A mixture of things seem to be driving this - poor wages compared to inflation, the general cost of living making moving jobs to something uncertain too much of a risk for some, people wanting permanent WFH status and amongst some, apathy towards work because life seems at times bleak regardless of whether you're earning well or not. There's also the Government's part to play with this due to the pain that now comes with recruiting from abroad.

Looking to start a discussion as to why people think there's so much issue with finding people for roles now. At my work, I have about 6 vacancies on my team. I genuinely think we're a decent place to work and the wage is roughly 15% better than equivalent positions in the North West, as well as adopting a flexible hybrid working policy and the business being willing to pay for courses and qualifications for staff. We've found it so hard staffing the role (dearth of applications and the ones we got nowhere near good enough) that we upped the wage as much as the business was able and even introduced a trainee version of the role where we're willing to accept switched on college-leavers (as in UK college/sixth form) on what is an excellent wage for an 18 year old (24k with the opportunity to be earning more within 18 months, as well as giving them a qualification).

And still, virtually nothing. I know the North West isn't the hot bed that London is, but as recently as three years ago, every role I'd put up would be swamped with applications. Now, the job itself and the pay and benefits are better than ever but we can't attract candidates. You could say we're clearly rejecting applications, which we are, but some barely border on literate and we're a tech company where you need to be able to absorb knowledge and communicate well.

Thoughts? Anyone else in the same boat? Anyone not in work but got an interesting view as to why people might not be after jobs in the same volumes as recent years?

[TSC]

Remote working is now a key driver.  For example quite a lot of firms are offering 100% remote working for some ‘office based’ staff and therefore eradicating any need for relocation.  Started off with London based firms but now extending to US based firms with a footprint in the UK.  That’s based on my experience so there may be other overseas based companies beyond the US doing same.

[Drinks Sangria]

Remote working is now a key driver.  For example quite a lot of firms are offering 100% remote working for some ‘office based’ staff and therefore eradicating any need for relocation.  Started off with London based firms but now extending to US based firms with a footprint in the UK.  That’s based on my experience so there may be other overseas based companies beyond the US doing same.

It's certainly a consideration, no doubt.

My type of work necessitates some presence in-house at least a couple of times a week and that's what most of the teams do, 1-3 days a week in the office depending on the nature of the work.

In the North West and Liverpool particularly, where our main UK office is, there isn't much going at our salary that's completely remote. But I can see why people are willing to forego £7k - £10k more in salary for the bonuses that WFH brings. Unfortunately for the roles our business needs, we need people to be able to at least come in a couple of times a week, or maybe for like a full week then three weeks wfh. We're somewhat flexible on it.

It's not just 'office' jobs though. My partner's brother is an area manager for a coffee shop chain and they cannot get or keep staff. Staff come in, do the training, decide it's not for them then bugger off without saying anything. Or equally frequently, they say they can do a number of shifts, then when they get scheduled in for one they don't fancy, they quit or don't show up and never let the business know. I know a lot of businesses can be absolute bastards - I've worked for a couple of them - but that's poor form in most circumstances.

[Indomitable_Carp]

I think WFH is massive.

I´m in Barcelona these days, working for a Telemedicine company. I was going to the office throughout the First Wave of the pandemic in 2020, even though we had the option to WFM. I was very thankful for the office as here in Spain we were not even allowed out of the house for two months, and working in healthcare I got a pass. And at any rate I was walking distance from the office.

In October 2020 as the second wave came around we had to work from home. Then I quickly grew to like it. Then me and my fiance got our own place, where I have my own office much nicer then where i sit at work- albeit on the other side of the city from my work with much cheaper rent and much more space then I would get somewhere more easily commutable to work. For the last two years I have worked from home, and my work/balance is just so much better for it. I don´t have to do many meetings, and really everything I do can be very comfortably done remotely. We have successfully developed and implemented a whole new IT system for our team to use in that time, all completely remote. Members of our team have moved to different towns, or further towards the outskirts of the city. Some have had the oppurtunity to start families in places with gardens - which simply don´t exist in much of Barcelona. 

Now our work have announced we all have to go back to the office in October 2022. We are allowed to work one day a week at home - and that day has to be a weekday - we have to go to the office when we are scheduled on for weekends or public holidays (both of which we sometimes work). They have given no reason. This is Spain so its just "No because no". Our US, Canada, UK and Argentina offices - all fully remote.

Consequently half my team including my supervisor have said they will quit. Some now live in different towns where they literally can´t commute. I myself will struggle to commute at weekends as my bus routes don´t run that early. Others just think it is no longer worth the effort when there is many jobs offering WFH. As it is we have had one vacancy on our team that has still not been filled even after 2-3 months, and that was with the promise of WFH. Without WFH they have absolutely no chance of filling all our vacancies when we leave. I could accept one day a week in the office - but only one day a week remote working can get to fuck (if they paid me an extra €6,000 a year I´d think about it)

[SouthDerryLaggo]

Lot of vacancies in my line of work (pharmacist) and its mainly due to working conditions. I am a locum as I can't tolerate any one shop any longer than a week or two lol. Places getting busier, less staff, no lunch break and the public being bigger and bigger c*nts. I would love a work from home number as I'm currently spending 600 a month on fuel. The locum money is good but I would take a bit less for work from home. Anyone know any jobs WFH pharmacist? 

[rafathegaffa83]

I think the issue with recruitment seems to have a multitude of factors, but the lazy answer that gets people worked up is the idea people don't want to work, when it all likelihood you've had:

- People who have managed to adopt a lifestyle that doesn't require as much material goods as they previously thought they needed. They also likely amassed higher savings by having their spending options limited
- People who have realized that certain costs (third-party childcare costs, commuting etc) ate up much of their additional salary, so it might be better for one of them to work part-time hours or not at all, as they are not losing much by doing so
- A sizeable number of people have retired  (early retirements, scheduled retirements etc) over the course of the past two years and likely do not want to risk their health while engaging in part-time work without benefits. The assumption should be they may not return to the workforce
- Rising housing/rental costs making it difficult for some people to easily move to a new location
- The realization that the quality of service sector jobs (especially retail) tends to be pretty poor. For the pay, lack of benefits and future areas for growth, some may quickly come to the conclusion that the hassle isn't worth it.
- Certain sectors (i.e. tourism) may relay on teenagers and university students who may not longer be able to afford to commute to work. We recently went on a holiday that included a stop at a small rural fishing village. One shop owner told my wife that business had never been better for them and they were shocked at the number of tourists. But due to their remote location, it was hard to recruit outside of the village as few people wanted to drive from the nearest city (45 minutes each way) to work 6-8 hours in a place with only three restaurants (one of which was a hot dog stand that was open for four hours a day) and a lack of other amenties. By contrast, we found that at a mid-sized port city we stopped at  it was almost all university students working at its shops, but they were still advertising for help as one retailer told us at her shop nobody over the age of 60 was interested in working there part-time because of worries of getting COVID

Consequently half my team including my supervisor have said they will quit. Some now live in different towns where they literally can´t commute. I myself will struggle to commute at weekends as my bus routes don´t run that early. Others just think it is no longer worth the effort when there is many jobs offering WFH. As it is we have had one vacancy on our team that has still not been filled even after 2-3 months, and that was with the promise of WFH. Without WFH they have absolutely no chance of filling all our vacancies when we leave. I could accept one day a week in the office - but only one day a week remote working can get to fuck

Yeah, this is a huge issue that has happened globally. People were told their jobs would be remote going forth as businesses saw the savings in doing so. Many people relocated often to other parts of their respective countries were housing was cheaper and/or quality of life was better. And now their employers now want to go back to the office.

My feeling has always been the ones driving return to the office are either a) older management types who want things to be done as they always were or micro-managers who feel they lose an element of control by not physically seeing employees, or b) companies that own their buildings and need to justify people being on-site 60%+ of the time. I think the arguments about people needing "the energy of the office" and all that shite are overblown. At my job, you can WFH Wednesdays and Fridays. The idea being that most meetings take place on Monday and Tuesday. I'd argue 80%+ of those meetings are still being done virtually, even when the people in question sit a few desks over from each other. Long-term it will change, but it will take the older generation of management to move on. Rising energy costs will probably be the most obvious short-term driver in pushing employers to offer more WFH. Environmental benefits will be the long-term driver.

[Red-Soldier]

So anyone who is working in a business right now is probably at least somewhat aware of the difficulty businesses are having recruiting.

Not in my sector there isn't.

Still tons of applicants for every position advertised.

[thaddeus]

Not in my sector there isn't.

Still tons of applicants for every position advertised.

Spoiler: Red Soldier is a scout for a Premier League club (although not Man U, obviously).

[ianburns252]

We are up shit creek in mine - due to the big 4 bleeding audit clients all the midtier firms have more work than can be done. At the same time COVID has resulted in fewer qualified accountants (or lower quality ones due to them not having had the same level of on the job training as before).

So every firm is trying to steal experienced audit seniors off each other - people are leaving as quick as they are joining which means salaries are as good as they have ever been due to it being an employees market.

[Drinks Sangria]

Not in my sector there isn't.

Still tons of applicants for every position advertised.

But are the applicants of the standard you'd require for that job?

I advertised an engineer job recently. A year or two ago, we'd get maybe 60 applications, with 30 candidates good enough for the position and then about 3 or 4 would be hired and others would, with their permission, be put on a list to be contacted when there were further vacancies.

We are getting applications but underqualified or slightly bizarre ones. I'm looking for 2 engineers at present where you need some form of experience and getting dozens of CVs from people who've never done anything remotely close.

We have a lot of entry level CVs but they don't apply for the entry level positions. I suppose what there is is a skill shortage in a lot of areas, as the NHS are also finding.

I'm not blaming anyone, I think a lot of this stems from the short-sightedness and entitled behaviour of many companies in the past and now they're reaping what they sowed. The example above from Indomitable_Carp is awful and unfair, after a clear expectation has been set then not adhered to for no good reason.

I wish we could offer more WFH but we literally work on physical tech so have to have a base and at least a rotational presence.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

I think it's pretty obvious that people just don't want to work for less. Less as in less real wages, less lifestyle choices, less benefits.

I'm thinking of going semi-retired due to the fact that I had my wages slashed 50% during the pandemic, and my company has no intention of giving any of that back. It's always about increasing productivity, and a lot of my friends are finding themselves in similar situations. For me, I'm happy with spending less, and I have enough of a nest egg that we can survive retrenchment at any given moment. Since that's the case, I'm honestly thinking of just finding a less stressful job that will give me a decent lifestyle, some income, and keep me from spending more money.

It's a strange place we're in at the moment. Don't think we've ever been in a situation like this ever in our lifetime.

[redbyrdz]

Brexit must play a role, nobody from Europe wants to work in a country that fucking stupid. But the UK has always relied on immigrants to fill high-skilled roles, so there's now a shortage.


I also think the pandemic made people re-evalute their lives, and a lot now want to prioritise family time. That might mean more WFH, or less commuting, or less relocating. People from abroad might have gone back to be closer to their families. Also I seem to know a lot of women who have had babies recently and may now be stay-at-home mums. Not quite sure if thats just because of the age of people I know, or if its got to do with the pandemic / more time at home.

It is also sector dependent I'd think - for example there seems to be a lot of new food places that are run or at least have started in someone's kitchen. These are probably mostly people who used to work employed in other kitchens, but found the time to set up their own business during lockdown. They're not going back to a zero-hour contract for minimum wage.

Anyone know any jobs WFH pharmacist? 

Don't online pharmacies employ pharmacists too? Surely some of those are WFH?

[west_london_red]

We had a role advertised internally first as we always do, so the working conditions wouldn’t have changed in terms of 1-2 days a week in the office 3-4 days at home, no management of people required, starting salary of about £50-52k so about a £20k rise on an analyst role which would be the typical route someone would take to the role, we have about 40 analysts… we had one applicant. When we recruited for similar roles 2 years ago, we would have analysts knocking our door down and get 10-20 applicants from the analysts and other areas in the business trying more speculatively. Makes no sense to me.

[SouthDerryLaggo]

Brexit must play a role, nobody from Europe wants to work in a country that fucking stupid. But the UK has always relied on immigrants to fill high-skilled roles, so there's now a shortage.


I also think the pandemic made people re-evalute their lives, and a lot now want to prioritise family time. That might mean more WFH, or less commuting, or less relocating. People from abroad might have gone back to be closer to their families. Also I seem to know a lot of women who have had babies recently and may now be stay-at-home mums. Not quite sure if thats just because of the age of people I know, or if its got to do with the pandemic / more time at home.

It is also sector dependent I'd think - for example there seems to be a lot of new food places that are run or at least have started in someone's kitchen. These are probably mostly people who used to work employed in other kitchens, but found the time to set up their own business during lockdown. They're not going back to a zero-hour contract for minimum wage.


Don't online pharmacies employ pharmacists too? Surely some of those are WFH?

Been looking at some of them, Need to do my prescribing course which requires me to be employed in a GP practice and sponsered by them 

[redbyrdz]

Been looking at some of them, Need to do my prescribing course which requires me to be employed in a GP practice and sponsered by them 

Probably a good time to get a job like that with those conditions? Think GPs are absolutely crazy understaffed.

[LuverlyRita]

Also I seem to know a lot of women who have had babies recently and may now be stay-at-home mums.

I've known many stay-at-home parents over the years who would have loved the opportunity for some part time work - to supplement the household income and to enjoy  some adult conversation. I've also known lots of retired people who would have loved the opportunity to keep their hand in by doing a couple of days a week. Obviously Covid may still be putting some people off going into the office but, with household budgets squeezed, some flexible options that are less than a five day week may attract more applicants.

[Max_powers]

Few reasons I see in my day to day life
 
1. Demographics: In most of western countries baby boomers were a big cohort of the population. They have been retiring for years now but the Pandemic supercharged that process. So there are just fewer workers and the workers that retired are the ones with all the experience.

2. Disillusioned workers - I know a few of my friends who have quit and temporarily dropped out of the workforce because of overwork and feeling that they are not being paid sufficiently in a high inflationary environment. Some have gone to university, some are just taking time off. 

3. Housing crisis: This may be somewhat of a geographic phenomenon but I think many western countries have witnessed this. It's particularly bad here in Canada. It's been an issue for many years but since 2020 it's been very acute. National GDPs have not gone up but due to cheap loans available many real estate markets have seen astronomical rises in value. The landlords have also raised rents alongside that. It's got to a point, where even if you have two professionals working and earning good salaries you will be living paycheque to paycheque if you buy or rent your home. I know many of my friends who have moved or are thinking of moving to cheaper housing markets because they are struggling financially. I see this as an issue for cities that have really high cost of living but the wages are not proportionally higher.

[ShatnersBassoon]

in my industry theres a huge increase in work available and the balance has shifted where the workers have the power. we are so in demand we can be a lot more picky. plus, after always being told "working from home is completely impossible", overnight it was proved otherwise which has just added another factor for people to be choosy about

when i started out i was always told "youre lucky to have this opportunity so you have to put up with whatever shit we throw at you" and thats no longer true. so whilst recruiters will complain, its more just a balancing out and they need to be more accommodating and creative

[Drinks Sangria]

I've known many stay-at-home parents over the years who would have loved the opportunity for some part time work - to supplement the household income and to enjoy  some adult conversation. I've also known lots of retired people who would have loved the opportunity to keep their hand in by doing a couple of days a week. Obviously Covid may still be putting some people off going into the office but, with household budgets squeezed, some flexible options that are less than a five day week may attract more applicants.

This is a good point and one we were chatting about this week in relation to one of the office roles that didn't require being there; could we maybe make a few two and three day roles with the same salary pro-rated and potentially attract some decent candidates that aren't looking for five days of work.

We're doing what we can to work around it, starting with opening our own 'academy' where we create link ups with the Uni and local colleges to bring in bright kids who want to get straight into the industry. Obviously this is a long play though designed to create pathways long term and doesn't solve the immediate shortage of staff.

[rafathegaffa83]

Few reasons I see in my day to day life

That's how I see it too re: 1 and 3

[Max_powers]

That's how I see it too re: 1 and 3

This is a good tool to visualize 1.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/dv-vd/pyramid/index-en.htm
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/ukpopulationpyramidinteractive/2020-01-08

Both in UK and Canada in 2005 the biggest chunk of the population was at peak working age around 45. Now they are between 55-70.

[LuverlyRita]

Brexit must play a role, nobody from Europe wants to work in a country that fucking stupid. But the UK has always relied on immigrants to fill high-skilled roles, so there's now a shortage.

The right to work across the EU has been enormously beneficial to the UK but it has had issues.
I think the availability of skilled labour from across Europe has made some companies - and certainly UK PLC - lazy and tight fisted about training i.e. why train your own when you can leave another country to pay for it and then offer a few quid extra to those skilled people to come and work here? I believe that, in the medical arena, The WHO particularly frowns on this practice when the country doing the training belongs to the developing world because getting talent to flow in the opposite direction is tough. But it can still happen in Europe. I think that during the worst phases of the pandemic, the likes of Portugal and some of the old eastern block countries faced severe staff shortages of medical staff due to a loss of skills to wealthier EU countries.
The UK has also relied on immigrants to fill poorly paid roles. It's the uncomfortable truth that nobody likes to talk about. We all want cheap food etc but sometimes it means exploiting people - having them work in awful conditions for little money and relying on the fact that it's less shit than working "back home". I've heard it said that British people "aren't prepared to do these jobs". If they don't pay enough for a UK mortgage, utilities and food why would they? But perhaps just as important, should we be expecting anyone to do it, regardless of their origin?

[Keita Success]

2. Disillusioned workers - I know a few of my friends who have quit and temporarily dropped out of the workforce because of overwork and feeling that they are not being paid sufficiently in a high inflationary environment. Some have gone to university, some are just taking time off. 

This is massive, imo. We're no longer willing to settle for less than what we think our time is worth.

In a world where a lot of companies are making record profits, staff, rightfully, want their fair share.

For me, my pay isn't fantastic, but I love my job. Wanted to do it since I was 13 (I write radio ads for a living). I've looked around for jobs where I could make more money, but most of the roles sound quite depressing - where creativity is on the back-burner, or it's B2C email marketing... I value being happy in my job far more than money. I've looked at a job in the same company in London where the pay is £35K and I'm weighing it up - job is less exciting, less creative, but there's a barrier in the North West. Progression in my role seems to only come from London.

[TipTopKop]

Just a quick glance and the great posts by TSC, Indomtiable_Carp and rafathegaffa83 seem to cover what I would have said.

Covid was a game changer with WFH, it made a lot of people assess things. I can get better pay elsewhere, but why bother? I'm familiar with my team, WFH apart from 1 day (which happens to be the day the others take off, so if I no-show none's the wiser).

Without sounding insensitive to the tragedy and chaos Covid brought, in terms of work it has been an absolute revelation. For years and years, I used to work in my industry and think "you know, I genuinely don't have to be here (in the office)" and so it has now proved.

Not applicable to all, of course.

[PeterJM]

I was made redundant from the civil service nearly 4 years ago after 25 years and have tried quite a few times to apply for various roles from Tesco,Royal Mail,Passport Office etc and been unsuccessful every single time so from my personal viewpoint i'm not seeing this great recruitment crisis.

[LuverlyRita]

I was made redundant from the civil service nearly 4 years ago after 25 years and have tried quite a few times to apply for various roles from Tesco,Royal Mail,Passport Office etc and been unsuccessful every single time so from my personal viewpoint i'm not seeing this great recruitment crisis.

I was made redundant in my mid 50s and, along with ex-colleagues in the same age bracket, discovered that ageism is alive and kicking in the UK. It was staggering how much more interest I got in my CV if I took off my date of birth and shaved off a bit of experience. But as soon as my age cropped up at interview (as it frequently  did), then you could see a rejection was going to be forthcoming. I mentioned it at the job centre and they acknowledge it was a problem but said that there's little you can do about it.
The trouble is that the longer you're left looking for a job the more a prospective employer tends to view you as having "a gap in employment" and sadly that's regarded as a negative.

[Drinks Sangria]

It's a difficult one to answer. A lot of people say 'pay them more,' which is often fair comment. Ours is a privately owned business though where wages match London wages without actually being down there. We're 10% - 20% better payers than anyone in our sector in the North West. There's also a limit to how far you can stretch it really too, before you're overpaying for certain types of work.

Like with any business, we have people who are overpaid and people who are underpaid. We've really beefed up benefits packages and our specific area is set for massive growth in the next 5-10 years, but we're still struggling.

I've no doubt that we'd be able to fill the roles easily if we were permanently WFH. The issues are, we upped the wage by £4,000 and made it clear that was a travel allowance to pay for the fact you'd be in the office 2-3 days a week on average. The role simply cannot be done solely remotely though. Our training is better on site and the literal design of a network has physical elements you need to be there do learn and implement.

We've had some success using recruiters but they've started to put their prices up and it becomes a burden on your budget when you're paying 20% odd more for a recruiter hire.

[RainbowFlick]

I get a lot of recruiters message me daily as my type of role is very 'in demand'. I flat out reject them if it's not 100% WFH on better terms than I'm currently on. As you say, there's also an importance on job security and people want to take the 'safe' option at this point but also how many of these opportunities are giving you a significant enough pay-increase to warrant a move?

I'm also a millenial so the pandemic has further highlighted the fact we shouldn't be living to work and the system is fundamentally broken. Many of us are happy to do the bare minimum but to a good standard, even though on linkedin it'd look like I have a pretty distinguished career.

Liz Truss's comments about the nation being 'lazy' or whatever is sadly rhetoric i've heard others say too who aren't Tory voters which is disappointing. There are a lot of employers in this country who frankly are exploiting their staff.

[Lone Star Red]

Think workers have (or feel like they have) a lot more power, after the pandemic.

I joined my company last summer, knowing full well I was going to be back in the office full time with the promise that I could be remote/hybrid 'soon' as long as I got my work done and was doing well.

Fast forward to spring of this year, absolutely zero progress made with higher ups and being more flexible with working conditions. I start applying to jobs, get two job offers with 20% pay increases + fully remote. Told my company this and what do you know, they allow me to be fully remote while exceeding the offers I had in hand.

I've been pretty content ever since, as it wasn't the work I was doing that made it hard for me. Just the daily grind of commuting + gas prices + sitting in a sterile office and higher ups not following through on their word to at least compromise.

Lo and behold, the team back at the office who are still forced to go into the office on a daily basis? Dropping like flies. I went in last week for some meetings and was shocked to find out how many people have left the company the last several months, for better pay and more flexibility. And the company (pretendstobeshocked.gif) is having trouble backfilling the empty roles.

[McSquared]

It’s definitely a combination of things

1) people got a taste for not working during the pandemic. If you don’t need to work, why bother
2) people got a taste for working from home during the pandemic. Who likes commuting?
3) shitty jobs with shit wages and poor conditions
4) there are more vacancies and less people to fill them after brexit
5) the rat race was well and truly disrupted because of covid and people can’t be arsed with it. There is more to life perhaps
6) less people moving around due to job security worries

I worked from home for a few years before covid, but there was always the thought that it was not the norm. Now most people in similar non customer facing roles in my company never go in. I would always just look for wfh job now if i had to. As for applications/skills, in my area of (IT) it has always been hard to get decent people and its even worse now

Also, perhaps the people you used to be able to recruit have just got wfh jobs that would normally be based in london for example

[PeterJM]

I was made redundant in my mid 50s and, along with ex-colleagues in the same age bracket, discovered that ageism is alive and kicking in the UK. It was staggering how much more interest I got in my CV if I took off my date of birth and shaved off a bit of experience. But as soon as my age cropped up at interview (as it frequently  did), then you could see a rejection was going to be forthcoming. I mentioned it at the job centre and they acknowledge it was a problem but said that there's little you can do about it.
The trouble is that the longer you're left looking for a job the more a prospective employer tends to view you as having "a gap in employment" and sadly that's regarded as a negative.

I had an interview in April this year for the passport office for a role i could do in my sleep as it was what i'd spent 25 years doing, but the interviewer seemed to find it difficult to understand that somebody with my accent didn't have either convictions or CCJs as he kept revisiting the issue even after i'd assured him and then had to reassure him that my credit record was clear and i have never had any criminal convictions. I knew from that point that i wasn't getting the job to i stood my ground and put him in his place and walked out that interview with my head held high for standing up against that ridiculous regional bias that a lot of people seem to still hold.

[filopastry]

Another factor is that the workforce shrunk during Covid, more people off work long term sick now.

Maybe Covid related, maybe related to the collapsing health service, maybe a bit of both

[gazzam1963]

I had an interview in April this year for the passport office for a role i could do in my sleep as it was what i'd spent 25 years doing, but the interviewer seemed to find it difficult to understand that somebody with my accent didn't have either convictions or CCJs as he kept revisiting the issue even after i'd assured him and then had to reassure him that my credit record was clear and i have never had any criminal convictions. I knew from that point that i wasn't getting the job to i stood my ground and point him in his place and walked out that interview with my head held high for standing up against that ridiculous regional bias that a lot of people seem to still hold.

That’s a disgrace that , in 2006 myself and another lad I’d worked with got on a five year social housing contract with a Manchester firm working in Widnes , we were mid40s then and after about two months were the got to team for advice from
the other six teams from Manchester that were doing similar work .

The boss turned up from Manchester one day and said he couldn’t believe how the most honest and hard working team on the site were scousers , still seems prejudices are alive and well today

[BarryCrocker]

In Australia we're down to 3.4%. Locking our borders to virtually all foreign students, backpackers and even skilled migrants resulted in this. Obviously, the previous conservative government could argue that they were trying to prevent the deaths especially in the window before the rollout of vaccines. Then they used the low level of unemployment as a marker for their economic management in the run up to the last election.

Turning the taps off people coming into the country has resulted in massive shortages in hospitality/retail, nursing/aged care and construction. Other staff shortages are the result of mass migration from certain industries. When airports and tourism closed for business people moved to other industries. Most don't want to go back as they're settled in their new careers.

Due the high levels of inflation most businesses are not in a position to increase the salaries of their existing staff. Most of the current movements I see in my networks are people moving due to higher salaries on offer elsewhere. The shortage of candidates means companies are having to up their packages to get people they don't have a desperately need. I recently advertised for a business development manager to report to me. The candidate pool was so poor I'm looking at re-advertising at a package on par with mine. I'd rather pay top dollar for someone to get the business to grow then leave a position vacant or get someone without industry experience.

[Drinks Sangria]

Without wanting to paint all with the same brush, because that would clearly be wrong, I am seeing an increase in entitled and puzzlingly selfish behaviour, both from existing staff and candidates. One of the roles I’m interviewing for is two levels below mine. It’s not entry level, but it’s not a massively skilled or challenging role and it pays £28k, which for the type of role, in the North West is very good. There’s also genuine development and progress opportunities. Two people I took on in the role last year cracked on brilliantly, I promoted them to manager level and now they’re earning a good £8k - £10k more than they were on when they joined the business.

What I’m seeing lots of is people asking for ridiculous salaries during interview. It’s clearly marked as what the salary is, it’s £5k better than the same role at competitors, but people are still saying ‘well, based on my experience and skills I would need £40k etc.’ I have their CVs and know they’ll be on nowhere near the sums they’re asking for. Is this cheekiness, arrogance, entitlement or the belief that they have massive leverage because recruitment is tough?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for someone advocating well for themselves but there’s seeing if there’s wiggle room then there’s completely invalidating your chance you’ll get the role if we think that’s the price you’ll come for.

I myself ask for payrises whenever I think I'm due one and have even asked for one when a competitor offered me a slightly better salary and moving costs. I don’t hold using such things to people’s advantage against anyone. But I’m also having more and more newer staff (some of whom I know got very good wage uplifts when moving to our company and then got 7.5% rises in January gone) come to me demanding more money or they’ll have to look elsewhere. Of course they’re entitled to ask the question, put their thoughts forward and have a discussion, but some of these staff aren’t qualified to make more money elsewhere and are somewhat lucky we took a chance on them to begin with. I completely accept people can and should be seeing what their employer can do for them and employers need to look at what they can afford to put back into their staff. But there’s been a massive rise in people’s attitude towards this and strange sense of entitlement of late.

This is not a post of me wanting to keep people in their place, I’m from a working class background and am part of the same structure as those asking for more - I just think people need to be realistic. Of the conversations I’m referring to, I’m getting bang average staff asking for more than their managers are on with no justification other than ‘I’m good at my job’ (most are average at best) and knowing we’re struggling to recruit.

[hide5seek]

For the well educated well trained its bliss for the (many) of the rest of us its shit and were still treated like shit. Low wages, shit conditions and slowly our rights are being taken away.

[Indomitable_Carp]

For the well educated well trained its bliss for the (many) of the rest of us its shit and were still treated like shit. Low wages, shit conditions and slowly our rights are being taken away.

Also true. And, regarding WHF, the vast majority of bottom end low paid jobs simply can´t be done from home. In fact the job I have now is the only job I´ve had where WHF would be possible.

I´ve worked in warehousing (shit pay, shit conditions, shit employers), kitchens (shit pay, shit conditions which seem to be a point of pride for some, frequently shit employers) and Labouring (get made to do some shit jobs and can´t guarantee regular work - also fucked my back).

The danger of the working revolution for office workers is that everyone else gets left behind.

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

I'm extremely lucky to work where I do - mid-sized tech company that pays well and had hybrid working pre-covid- but even with good salaries we're struggling to find people with the skills. Those who do have skills are looking to get a pay bump from where they currently are because their existing employers are either not doing any increases due to higher costs or are offering below inflation rises. 3 years ago I could hire in a reasonably experienced project manager for around 50-55k, but now candidates are asking for upwards of 90k.

God only knows what it's like in the 'unskilled' market (I hate that term but it's the only one I can think of), but I think a corner has been turned where people have simply had enough of being treated like dirt for poverty wages. Maybe if employers started treating their staff as their greatest assets rather than an inconvenience then people would maybe apply for their vacancies. The horror stories about the care industry, for example, I think are just the tip of the iceberg. It's also not unique to the UK; the way in which employers like Starbucks are closing branches where employees have voted to unionise tells you everything you need to know about their priorities.

[Wabaloolah]

This is massive, imo. We're no longer willing to settle for less than what we think our time is worth.

In a world where a lot of companies are making record profits, staff, rightfully, want their fair share.

For me, my pay isn't fantastic, but I love my job. Wanted to do it since I was 13 (I write radio ads for a living). I've looked around for jobs where I could make more money, but most of the roles sound quite depressing - where creativity is on the back-burner, or it's B2C email marketing... I value being happy in my job far more than money. I've looked at a job in the same company in London where the pay is £35K and I'm weighing it up - job is less exciting, less creative, but there's a barrier in the North West. Progression in my role seems to only come from London.

I'm assuming you will be working remotely and continuing to live in the North West as I doubt £35k will be enough to afford to live in London

[Wabaloolah]

I handed in my notice two months ago and I'm moving to a  contracting role in October, partly due to fancying a change but more for a huge increase in earning potential. I can pretty much work for 6 months of the year for what I currently earn in 12 months.  There are downsides of course with regards to job security but for me it's worth the risk.

Prior to the pandemic these roles were at least 4 days in the office so would have meant staying away from home each week so that put me off from  going for it but this is now a fully remote position with just occasional trips to London