Topic: Welcome to Liverpool, Fabio Carvalho

[MonsLibpool]

Been wondering why we signed him. Pretty obvious he doesn't have the pace or strength to play CM or as a LF irrespective of how well he did in the championship. ANd we dont use no.10's (Harvey is the better option...)

Unfortunately, this doesn't only apply to him...

[Clint Eastwood]

He was always a moneyball singing like Minamino and Davies. Highly rated young and (potentially) English, available for a small fee. He looks a talented player but a poor fit for how we play. We can try and work with him but it’s still difficult to imagine him being a winger or a midfielder in our system. I’m surprised we didn’t try and turn him into a false 9 like we are doing with Gakpo.

Worst case scenario he goes for a tidy profit.

[MonsLibpool]

He was always a moneyball singing like Minamino and Davies. Highly rated young and (potentially) English, available for a small fee. He looks a talented player but a poor fit for how we play. We can try and work with him but it’s still difficult to imagine him being a winger or a midfielder in our system. I’m surprised we didn’t try and turn him into a false 9 like we are doing with Gakpo.

Worst case scenario he goes for a tidy profit.

A good transfer strategy would make it unnecessary to convert many signings.

[farawayred]

He was always a moneyball singing like Minamino and Davies. Highly rated young and (potentially) English, available for a small fee. He looks a talented player but a poor fit for how we play. We can try and work with him but it’s still difficult to imagine him being a winger or a midfielder in our system. I’m surprised we didn’t try and turn him into a false 9 like we are doing with Gakpo.

Worst case scenario he goes for a tidy profit.

I don't quite get the moneyball strategy with Carvalho. When we got Elliott, we paid the highest fee and arbitration committee has ever handed out. It was a long a painful process. But we did that because we wanted Elliott as a future first team player. We avoided arbitration for Carvalho because of the process, and paid well over his worth at the time. One could argue that the talent is there and he will be a player who commands a hefty fee in the future, but for that we have to develop him. Has his value really gone up at this time, compared to what we got him for, plus wages, plus medical expenses? I don't think so.

There has to be a vision for his future as a first team player. Maybe he's not fulfilling the promise once we saw in him?

[killer-heels]

I don't quite get the moneyball strategy with Carvalho. When we got Elliott, we paid the highest fee and arbitration committee has ever handed out. It was a long a painful process. But we did that because we wanted Elliott as a future first team player. We avoided arbitration for Carvalho because of the process, and paid well over his worth at the time. One could argue that the talent is there and he will be a player who commands a hefty fee in the future, but for that we have to develop him. Has his value really gone up at this time, compared to what we got him for, plus wages, plus medical expenses? I don't think so.

There has to be a vision for his future as a first team player. Maybe he's not fulfilling the promise once we saw in him?

I really like Carvalho and was for his signing but on paper and in hindsight there is a disconnect between his qualities and what we want in a forward.

Also if we are playing the guessing game as to who’s signing it was, this very well could have been a Ward signing as i read about him liking Carvalho a lot.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

You can't say that when his only chances have been in a side that's lost the fucking plot.

[killer-heels]

You can't say that when his only chances have been in a side that's lost the fucking plot.

Maybe. Dunno, when you see your team lose tonnes of power and pace, a player lacking in those attributes seem to stand out even more.

[Andy]

A good transfer strategy would make it unnecessary to convert many signings.

Klopp is always converting people into different positions - Gini etc

I thought Carvalho had be brought in as a longer term replacement for Firmino to be honest and didn't necessarily think Gakpo stops that happening. Klopp likes players that can play several positions.

[Knight]

Klopp is always converting people into different positions - Gini etc

I thought Carvalho had be brought in as a longer term replacement for Firmino to be honest and didn't necessarily think Gakpo stops that happening. Klopp likes players that can play several positions.

Was he converted or could he already play as an 8? And who else?

[Andy]

Was he converted or could he already play as an 8? And who else?

I'm sure Gini had played at 8 before, as well as at 6 which is what I was referring to. But he was playing as a more attacking midfielder at Newcastle and continued playing it for the Netherlands whilst at LFC.

Players are always moving...


Mane moving from right wing to left, then striker.

Bajectic playing defensive mid as well as centre back.

Salah playing as a striker rather than winger.

Firmino as a withdrawn striker when he had played in other attacking positions - out wide etc.

Trent at right back rather than the midfielder people thought he might be.


You seem surprised that Klopp moves people around? He's hardly the only manager to do it, and it is partly why our system works. Players can take different positions on the pitch than they start in or are expected to play, fill in when other players move out of position and have a better knowledge of their teammates' movements.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Managers have shifted players around since the first ball was kicked.

None understood the game like knight though.

[Eeyore]

Was he converted or could he already play as an 8? And who else?

Gini went from being an out-and-out attacking midfield player to the controller role. That is a completely different position.

[killer-heels]

Gini went from being an out-and-out attacking midfield player to the controller role. That is a completely different position.

Wijnaldum played in a deeper position for PSV. I think we were linked to him when he was there and he was a 6.

[number 168]

He is lively and wants to attack. Yes he is young, inexerienced and needs a bit of muscle but given that the whole midfield has only scored 5 PL goals all season and he has two of them, I would like to see him given more minutes. At least he looks like he wants to have a go.

[robertobaggio37]

Deserves his chance to show is talent, just like Elliot has.

[Kennys from heaven]

Would you say it was terrible management playing Stef and Harvey so much then in that case?

In his last proper appearance he scored away to City and looked lively, wasn't really struggling.

Not everyone is cut the same and Harvey seems to be able to cope better wit the expectations and pressure. Comparing Stef to Fabio is disingenuous. Two totally different players in two totally different positions, but again, same comment as Harvey. Some can deal with it, others need time to adjust and get used… some won’t of course and time will tell with Fabio whether he can cut it, but my point still stands. Some can cope and thrive, some will struggle. Good management to see this (if that’s the reason of course - we can all only speculate as to why he’s out of the side)

[classycarra]

Seen absolutely nothing in Fabio to think he struggles with pressure. He's been dropped into an entirely dysfunctional team in a period of transition and when he's played he's produced.

Never looked phased or out of place, tactically sound (presses smarter and more effectively than Nunez from the left, for example), the only question marks are around his physicality - hopefully this improves as he enters his next season.

Would really like him to be playing a lot more minutes. Not least because we need to assess what we've got, and whether he features in the team we're building towards in the next few years (if we qualify for the Europa, it'd be ideal for him). Might well happen next season, as we will be without Chamberlain and Firmino who've taken some front three minutes he could have had (and potentially one of the main older forwards may be sold, if Klopp wants to fund an extensive and expensive squad turnover)

[killer-heels]

Seen absolutely nothing in Fabio to think he struggles with pressure. He's been dropped into an entirely dysfunctional team in a period of transition and when he's played he's produced.

Never looked phased or out of place, tactically sound (presses smarter and more effectively than Nunez from the left, for example), the only question marks are around his physicality - hopefully this improves as he enters his next season.

Would really like him to be playing a lot more minutes. Not least because we need to assess what we've got, and whether he features in the team we're building towards in the next few years (if we qualify for the Europa, it'd be ideal for him). Might well happen next season, as we will be without Chamberlain and Firmino who've taken some front three minutes he could have had (and potentially one of the main older forwards may be sold, if Klopp wants to fund an extensive and expensive squad turnover)

He definitely presses well and his physicality probably stops him winning the ball. But yeah its very positive that he knows how to press compared to others in the forward line.

[nerdster4]

After the first 45 minutes Away to city , when he scored , he has not had a look in at all

I suspect he was seen as being a soft touch or something along those lines

Çan see him going next season

to be honest we will need some funds to strengthen the squad

[royhendo]

[Wilmo]

Not sure what the negativity is about, looks a proper prospect to me. Klopp seems to be protecting him atm - he's the best in the world at nurturing young talent so I trust he's making the right call. Looking forward to seeing more of him

[Schmidt]

Not sure what the negativity is about, looks a proper prospect to me. Klopp seems to be protecting him atm - he's the best in the world at nurturing young talent so I trust he's making the right call. Looking forward to seeing more of him

What negativity?

[Wilmo]

What negativity?

The post literally above mine? 

[tubby]

Not sure what the negativity is about, looks a proper prospect to me. Klopp seems to be protecting him atm - he's the best in the world at nurturing young talent so I trust he's making the right call. Looking forward to seeing more of him

What makes you think he's protecting him?  And why does he need protecting when loads of other young players haven't had that same protection and Klopp has been happy to throw them in at the deep end?

I think it's just more likely that Klopp doesn't fancy him in our set up.

[newterp]

What makes you think he's protecting him?  And why does he need protecting when loads of other young players haven't had that same protection and Klopp has been happy to throw them in at the deep end?

I think it's just more likely that Klopp doesn't fancy him in our set up.

and if that is the case - makes you wonder why we tried like crazy to sign him in Jan. 2022 and then made sure to get him tied up before the summer.

was it purely a "moneyball" signing - ie there is no way we lose money on him?

[Kopenhagen]

was it purely a "moneyball" signing - ie there is no way we lose money on him?

Likely. Looks like another Ings-type signing.

[newterp]

I think he will need to be loaned next season - I'm not seeing where/how he will get meaningful minutes.

Loan for half a season (option to return back in January) would be good, I think.

[Mister Flip Flop]

I think he will need to be loaned next season - I'm not seeing where/how he will get meaningful minutes.

Loan for half a season (option to return back in January) would be good, I think.

Should have really happened this last window. Feel sorry for the lad.

[disgraced cake]

Should have really happened this last window. Feel sorry for the lad.

Yeah, definitely should have happened. I thought he was going to have a little part to contribute this season after a couple of goals early doors, especially in a struggling team, disappointed that he hasn't been given more chances because he definitely looked a talent. I think if he'd been given the chance elsewhere for a few months to play more football would have been nice for all parties.

Ultimately though, I can't imagine there was any clamour from the manager to sign him, he wouldn't have been watching him in the Championship every week, and we (probably) wouldn't have signed him if he'd have cost us more than a small tribunal fee, it was all to do with getting him on the cheap. I'd completely agree on the moneyball shout.

I think he'd have been able to chip in with a few more goals over the course of the season too. Thought it was a bit mad how he was brought on at Madrid for a few seconds, something about it really rubbed me the wrong way to be honest.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

We have kept him around because he is learning shit loads on the training ground,why would we then send him out on loan in Jan to learn a system that we have no intention of playing.

Not rocket science is it.

[newterp]

We have kept him around because he is learning shit loads on the training ground,why would we then send him out on loan in Jan to learn a system that we have no intention of playing.

Not rocket science is it.

What if you sent him to a team playing a pressing system? Is that rocket science?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

What if you sent him to a team playing a pressing system? Is that rocket science?

Why do we slowly integrate players that we bought from sides that also play a pressing game ?

[newterp]

Why do we slowly integrate players that we bought from sides that also play a pressing game ?

Integrate implies they are at least playing. Carvalho isn't playing at all.

[Knight]

The training ground must be super helpful for him I’m sure. But when you’re a youngster I’m not convinced anything beats playing actual minutes at as high a level as possible. So he’d have learnt more spending January onwards playing regularly in the PL I suspect.

he doesn’t fit in the team currently. If he was a real athlete, ball winning 6 he’d have been playing plenty.

[Dave McCoy]

It was a low cost punt which if it works out is an amazing deal for us and if it doesn't I'm sure Fabio still got a pay increase and we can probably even make a profit moving him on. I wouldn't really be too concerned if this works out or not. It's why we are doing so many of these deals though of course Fabio is the most high profile example as most of the others were bought to still play in the youth ranks with even Harvey spending time there.

[HeartAndSoul]

There were talks of Fulham wanting him on loan in January, wasn’t there? Probably should have let him go for 6 months then reevaluate in the summer. Don’t think he’s been bad at all. In his limited minutes on the field, he’s actually contributed quite a bit. Hopefully he gets a full season playing regularly on loan next year.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Integrate implies they are at least playing. Carvalho isn't playing at all.

Apart from everyday in training.

He would've been given more time had we not had such a nightmare of a season.

[AmanShah21]

There's echoes of Solanke transfer with this. He is a decent player but he doesnt really fit into how he play. He'll learn over time as he has time on his side but I wonder if he wants to stick around for that. He probably would play regularly for a lower half side so it maybe one where we allow him to go because we have a few lads who've taken their chances better this season alone and with Jones doing well in the last couple of games and Bobby Clark looking to get opportunities next season, it may be sensible to let him move in the summer.

[classycarra]

I'd quite like to see him in the role Henderson played against Leeds.

I wouldn't play him in our traditional 8 spot, but the one the other day had absolutely minimal defensive contribution - plus Carvalho is good at closing passing lanes, pressing and making interceptions. He'd not have the positional nous/experience that Henderson does, albeit he doesn't play with the same discipline these days as he did when playing the 6 role.

But Carvalho would bring extra speed and energy in both directions that Henderson lacks. With the position being the regular extra man in the oppositions half he'd bring added technique and composure to play some of the quick give and goes (particularly with Gakpo Salah and Trent) that broke down against Leeds. Obviously not going to get a start there, given he's not making matchday squads. But if we have games in quick succession it'll be mutually beneficial for Henderson and the team if his minutes are managed so he's better placed to perform.

Was nice for Milner to get on against Leeds, but ideally Elliot and/or Carvalho will hopefully take more minutes than him (as Jones is now doing) as we close this season out - with the reward being a key place in the team throughout Europa group stages if we end the season better

[mattD]

I'd quite like to see him in the role Henderson played against Leeds.

I wouldn't play him in our traditional 8 spot, but the one the other day had absolutely minimal defensive contribution - plus Carvalho is good at closing passing lanes, pressing and making interceptions. He'd not have the positional nous/experience that Henderson does, albeit he doesn't play with the same discipline these days as he did when playing the 6 role.

But Carvalho would bring extra speed and energy in both directions that Henderson lacks. With the position being the regular extra man in the oppositions half he'd bring added technique and composure to play some of the quick give and goes (particularly with Gakpo Salah and Trent) that broke down against Leeds. Obviously not going to get a start there, given he's not making matchday squads. But if we have games in quick succession it'll be mutually beneficial for Henderson and the team if his minutes are managed so he's better placed to perform.

Was nice for Milner to get on against Leeds, but ideally Elliot and/or Carvalho will hopefully take more minutes than him (as Jones is now doing) as we close this season out - with the reward being a key place in the team throughout Europa group stages if we end the season better

He doesn't have that physicality and brute strength of Henderson though, particularly Hendo in his prime. Just something that I feel is lacking across the board with the squad. Don't want to sound all Sam Allardyce like, but that tough hard running British players do provide some good backbone for the flair players to do their thing.

I don't think Carvalho could do that, but it is a narrow interpretation I agree, and maybe there are similar profiles to Carvalho that do such a job?