Topic: Lucas’ critical role for Liverpool

[PJG]

Saw soccernet a couple hours ago. " Lucas Leiva 'Potential for Greatness' ".    Didn't say much in it, but it's nice to see the recognition of his talent

[Walk on, walk on]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but he's an absolute machine at winning back the ball,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxAbyj5_sDI&feature=player_embedded

[simesy]

Toure "What the fuck, Iv been running through here all season whats going on?"

You've been well and truly bossed mate

He's done that to every top sides midfield this season.It's as if he picks them up,puts them in his pocket before the match starts,then lets them out after the final whistle goes.Then they go "wtf just happened" Is boss.He ran that game.Really hope he can score soon and shut the mouths of anyone who's left who dont rate him.Thats if there is any of our fans who dont.

[TOMMO86]

Loved watching the game back the other night. Just studied Lucas and his range of passing.

He said in the Echo the other week that he has been watching a lot of Alonso and is taking idea's from his play. His passing is getting better. A lot more forward passes to split the midfield and defence. Xabi did this a lot.

[royhendo]

...the possibility of consistent level 3 football becomes greater with every 'monster' you add to your squad. Obviously Mascherano's an example, but the clearest description I can remember was in McManaman's autobiography when they described Fernando Redondo. There they described a player who could all but dominate a midfield full of world class opponents on his own. This class of player doesn't become available too often, and if he comes cheap, it's a massive stroke of luck; but when he does become available, you need to take the chance.

I wrote that in a post called "Level 3 football" a while back and it's safe to say that Lucas is approaching that Redondo level now, you have to say. We have a special player on our hands.

[Dr Manhattan]

He actually DOES play that ball with his knee after the tackle aswell.

So boss.

[PaulF]

ld like to see our strikers chipping in with a few more goals first! But ya he does have the capabilities to score, but in tight games against decent sides you'd always feel because of his selfless attitude he'd always look for someone else he thinks would have a better chance of slotting it away than him, in fact he does it quite regularly.

Indeedy.  He thinks with his defensive hat on first though, which I like. We've seen he can be a goal threat, but at the moment he's playing to his strengths, hopefully when we start gelling a bit better he'll be able to use that fantastic engine to burst forward.

[Libertine]

From the pictures thread:

  toure's reaction is priceless - he's completely bemused at what just happened - looks to the referee, then linesman, appeals for a foul when it clearly wasn't as if that would be the only way to explain why he's no longer in possession.

[scatman]

I wrote that in a post called "Level 3 football" a while back and it's safe to say that Lucas is approaching that Redondo level now, you have to say. We have a special player on our hands.

ah those great days of the level 3 thread used to be a brilliant read, i remember (smugly) cracking on about Lucas in those days and how Rafa was honing his defensive abilities to make him a more rounded midfielder (gerrard-esque i said)

[Yorkykopite]

I wrote that in a post called "Level 3 football" a while back and it's safe to say that Lucas is approaching that Redondo level now, you have to say. We have a special player on our hands.

I'd like to think so but I don't believe he's at Redondo's level, or even approaching it.

Lucas has certainly gone beyond Mascherano because Mascherano's range of skills was (is) much narrower than Lucas's. While he was at Liverpool I always got the impression that Mascher would rather be chasing an opponent than receiving the ball from a teammate. He hated getting the thing when he was facing the wrong way, which is a problem for a central midfielder - and there was always a little stutter on the ball as he tried to arrange his feet. That little stutter is the difference between the next man receiving the ball with time to get his head up and receiving it with an opponent breathing down his neck. Lucas has a first touch that Mascher can only dream about. And when there are options he releases the ball nice and early, which Mascher had problems doing. Incidentally you can see that on the 'Toure tackle' above. The pass he makes at the end of it is delivered not by the knee but by his right boot as he's in the process of getting back to his feet. It's not showboating either, it's simply buying an extra second for the next bloke - a saved second that can be invested and used further down the line if things go well.

But Redondo? I think that's wishful thinking Roy. Redondo's remit was very different to Lucas's. He had a licence to roam that Lucas simply does not have. The only time he hit the box on Sunday was when our opponents were down to ten men. The fact that he did so with a clever run, a magisterial touch and an intelligently disguised return pass to Suarez suggest that Lucas is being under-used as a pure defensive shield. But at the moment that's what he is. And for all Charlie Adam's progress I - and probably you - wouldn't want to see him holding the fort while Lucas goes chasing Indians.

But that's where we are. We can talk about Redondo (possibly) once Lucas starts running with the ball and getting beyond the man who is on it.

[royhendo]

That's just it though mate - the late surge into the box showed him doing exactly that. For me he's demonstrated it before (the Europa league games in particular a couple of seasons back) but it was there against arguably one of the top three sides in the World game just now on Sunday.

You only roam when you're confident you're not deserting your post, don't you?

[MiserableP15]

Listening to the usual podcasts it's interesting how the media bandwagon is building for Lucas. What's even more laughable is that the majority of journalists are now saying they've ALWAYS liked Lucas and it's Liverpool fans who still don't appreciate him.

Yes, that's why he got the Golden Samba last year you fucking dope smoking revisionists.

[Yorkykopite]

That's just it though mate - the late surge into the box showed him doing exactly that. For me he's demonstrated it before (the Europa league games in particular a couple of seasons back) but it was there against arguably one of the top three sides in the World game just now on Sunday.

You only roam when you're confident you're not deserting your post, don't you?

I've no doubt he's able to do it Roy - after all that's what he was known for at Gremio - but it has happened pitifully too few times at Liverpool which is why you're reaching for something "a couple of seasons back".  I remember it too. I also remember the sublime one-two he played with Gerrard on the edge of the box in his first season.

But these examples don't define his play in the way that once defined Redondo's. The pitch really was Redondo's oyster. He could prise open the opposition shell anywhere. By contrast Lucas governs but a small part of the pitch. And, like I said, Sunday's surge into the box came at a time when Man City were down to ten men. There was a dramatically reduced risk in doing what he did.

[mercury]

Must be someone from here;)

Hope you do mind I put them on me tweeter 

[koolkamal]

I've no doubt he's able to do it Roy - after all that's what he was known for at Gremio - but it has happened pitifully too few times at Liverpool which is why you're reaching for something "a couple of seasons back".  I remember it too. I also remember the sublime one-two he played with Gerrard on the edge of the box in his first season.

But these examples don't define his play in the way that once defined Redondo's. The pitch really was Redondo's oyster. He could prise open the opposition shell anywhere. By contrast Lucas governs but a small part of the pitch. And, like I said, Sunday's surge into the box came at a time when Man City were down to ten men. There was a dramatically reduced risk in doing what he did.

That though isn't it less to do with ability than tactics? Right now Lucas has to play the role he is - but ability wise (while he's not at Redondo's level) - I think he is approaching it.

[PIPA23]

He´s our most important player after Reina.. i love to watch him play.. he doe´s all the important work for team

[PIPA23]

feels like only yesterday he was a boo boy for the club amongst a lot of people. glad he has really improved his overall game and made a name for himself here now and proven the doubters wrong.

We could apply this on Carroll as well in some time in future...that´s why this nonsence should stop 35 m. or not..

[Yorkykopite]

That though isn't it less to do with ability than tactics? Right now Lucas has to play the role he is - but ability wise (while he's not at Redondo's level) - I think he is approaching it.

It is a matter of tactics, yes. But until those change the question of Lucas's ability (to do what Redondo once did) will remain untested. It is therefore a matter of faith rather than observable fact to say "he is approaching Redondo's level".  That's all.

[kaz1983]

Our Brazilian mastero is also recognised on a Singapore tech forum:)

forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3502187

'its just a 1 time off performance for lucas. i cant help but to laugh after i see the title of this thread.

1/2 the page down, what a joke.

[hassinator]

That's hilarious, and the stats I pulled off the chalkboards for Lucas have ended up on there...exact same formatting I used. Hehehe.

respect is due big man

[royhendo]

Anyway. I think he's good an that.

[hassinator]

I wrote that in a post called "Level 3 football" a while back and it's safe to say that Lucas is approaching that Redondo level now, you have to say. We have a special player on our hands.

no praise higher than a comparison with redondo but best of all he is injury free and only 24.

so much more to come from the rock on which we build our church

[hassinator]

But that's where we are. We can talk about Redondo (possibly) once Lucas starts running with the ball and getting beyond the man who is on it.

the voice of reason. still i think lucas is being played out of position.  when we go back to the glories of the level three days i think we all agreed he was more of a natural medio-volante ie he would take the ball and move it from midfield rather than just sit in front of the back four.

first of all it speaks volumes of his willingness to play for the team and second of the quality of his application to learn a new role but going forward he offers squad depth and versatility - i seem to remember him being through on goal against man utd last season when played in a more advanced rule.

redondo is perhaps going to far at this stage but what is exciting is that he's hit a new level this year.  when he got his new contract i posted that he was a future captain on my facebook page and drew hoots of derision from bells who support other clubs.  it wouldn't surprise me if we was leading club and country in the next couple of years.

[Yorkykopite]

Anyway. I think he's good an that.

Me an' all. 

the voice of reason. still i think lucas is being played out of position.  when we go back to the glories of the level three days i think we all agreed he was more of a natural medio-volante ie he would take the ball and move it from midfield rather than just sit in front of the back four.

first of all it speaks volumes of his willingness to play for the team and second of the quality of his application to learn a new role but going forward he offers squad depth and versatility - i seem to remember him being through on goal against man utd last season when played in a more advanced rule.

redondo is perhaps going to far at this stage but what is exciting is that he's hit a new level this year.  when he got his new contract i posted that he was a future captain on my facebook page and drew hoots of derision from bells who support other clubs.  it wouldn't surprise me if we was leading club and country in the next couple of years.

That maybe true Hass - that Lucas "is being played out of position". But just to double back on myself for a moment, I don't mind that either. He's proved to be the best defensive midfielder in the Premier League. Internationally too, I don't know of any better. Busquets maybe? If he were never to venture into the opposition's box again this season, so long as he keeps on doing what he's doing in front of the back-4, I'd still love Lucas. He's more than pulling his weight.

[mickeydocs]

What's even more laughable is that the majority of journalists are now saying they've ALWAYS liked Lucas and it's Liverpool fans who still don't appreciate him.

I actually think there is some truth in this... certain websites still give him stick from time to time (no need to mention them).

[astowell1]

Lucas is my favourite central midfielder in the world.  I can't say anymore than that really.  Class.

[LiamG]

Still seems he cant please some fans!

Said to a bloke in work last night, "What you think to lucas and his outstanding performance?"

His reply

"Yeah he was good but we he's not creative enough for us to win the league"

Wheres the facepalm smilie?

[doikc]

That passage of play with Suarez was sublime, he sort of sneaks up on the defenses blind side and is so dangerous in small spaces especially his return pass.
Yes we haven't seen much of it but it's a tool he has in his locker. Right now its true with Adam in there I'd worry if he run past him unto the ball. With time I hope Adam's positional sense and tackling will improve to the level Lucas can trust him to back him up.  We also really need cover for him and Comolli should maybe look for a pure defensive player? Just so the balance in our midfield can have a pure destroyer a creator and the hybrid that is Lucas we need our possibilities eh?. I worry about burnout/wear&tear when he is playing all our games.

Lucas started off as the perfect cover for Masch & Alonso, the skill set he has right now is so unique we would struggle to replace him like for like. I hope he is mentoring someone in our youth team to eventually be our new Lucas.

[Sangria]

Lucas started off as the perfect cover for Masch & Alonso, the skill set he has right now is so unique we would struggle to replace him like for like. I hope he is mentoring someone in our youth team to eventually be our new Lucas.

Holden!

[Sangria]

Lucas the troll. JoeMc's original profile picture was very unflattering, moobs and all. After Lucas' riposte, JoeMc changed it, only to be trolled further.


JoeMcClennan10 Joe McClennan
@
@LucasLeiva87 ur the worst player to ever wear a lfc shirt. Ive considerd not supporting the club when i see u trott onto the pitch

Lucas Leiva
@LucasLeiva87 Lucas Leiva
@JoeMcClennan10 and you have got the worst photo on twitter hahahah

LucasLeiva87 Lucas Leiva
@joemcclennan10 why did you change your picture? I think couldn't handle with the pressure. Hahahahaha #gaveup

[Hazell]

[Filler.]

the voice of reason. still i think lucas is being played out of position. 

I think the opposite. I think this is where he's suited - alone, and defending. I haven't seen much evidence of him being able to effectively play that classic box-to-box stuff, but, there is plenty of time to see him merge into doing that. If we had another cloned Lucas tho, I'd be happy to see the original infront of him next to Adam. But we only have one, and I've been enjoying this lone central defensive midfielder with two infront for a good while now under Kenny. With a bit more pace and guile down the right, we'd be tasty.

We used to watch Masch/Alonso together, doing much of their work at the top of our half, or around the centre and you'd imagine that with only one doing the DM stuff, that he'd be deeper, but thanks to a higher line that's been developing, Lucas has been doing some notable stuff further forward, and to see 6 players in attacking positions when he robbed Toure Mikel the other day to set up that lovely worked goal was a joy.

I think he's also enjoying the added responsibility too. Taken it on very very well, and he looks far better with two midfielders infront of him than he did when Gerrard may have been the only one.

Can't persuade some people tho. Got into a conversation with someone the other week... 'not a great tackler, passes to the side, not tall enough and doesn't win headers, can't score.' I didn't really know what to say to that. Really enjoying his contribution to the side.


edit: Mikel not Toure. Duh.

[doc_antonio]

Lucas the troll. JoeMc's original profile picture was very unflattering, moobs and all. After Lucas' riposte, JoeMc changed it, only to be trolled further.


JoeMcClennan10 Joe McClennan
@
@LucasLeiva87 ur the worst player to ever wear a lfc shirt. Ive considerd not supporting the club when i see u trott onto the pitch

Lucas Leiva
@LucasLeiva87 Lucas Leiva
@JoeMcClennan10 and you have got the worst photo on twitter hahahah

LucasLeiva87 Lucas Leiva
@joemcclennan10 why did you change your picture? I think couldn't handle with the pressure. Hahahahaha #gaveup

trolling muthafucka! love the man.

[Hazell]

I wrote that in a post called "Level 3 football" a while back and it's safe to say that Lucas is approaching that Redondo level now, you have to say. We have a special player on our hands.

Was talking about this yesterday (using the piece you wrote in Feb after the Chelsea game) and I really think that's someone who he could be as close to as anyone, in terms of how they play the game. As has been mentioned though, his present role doesn't give him as much freedom as Redondo but with a few tweaks to the team, I think it's something he could look to emulate.

[Zeb]

Falcao.

[Ultimate Bromance]

Lucas the troll. JoeMc's original profile picture was very unflattering, moobs and all. After Lucas' riposte, JoeMc changed it, only to be trolled further.


JoeMcClennan10 Joe McClennan
@
@LucasLeiva87 ur the worst player to ever wear a lfc shirt. Ive considerd not supporting the club when i see u trott onto the pitch

Lucas Leiva
@LucasLeiva87 Lucas Leiva
@JoeMcClennan10 and you have got the worst photo on twitter hahahah

LucasLeiva87 Lucas Leiva
@joemcclennan10 why did you change your picture? I think couldn't handle with the pressure. Hahahahaha #gaveup

He can do it all.

[KERRYKOP]

So confidant in himself and his abilities, I remember Darren Gibson started up a Twitter page and had to close it down after a few hours because of the torrent of abuse he received from bellends.

"The internet is like walking into a room where everyone tells you how shit you are"

[leivapool]

So confidant in himself and his abilities, I remember Darren Gibson started up a Twitter page and had to close it down after a few hours because of the torrent of abuse he received from bellends.

"The internet is like walking into a room where everyone tells you how shit you are"

To be fair, although Lucas does banter with the idiots, he still gets some criticism after we lose.  The thing is though, the praise so outweighs the criticism that he tends to either ignore, block or banter.  I think he's now realistic that there will always be a few idiots, but he is also well aware that 99% the tweets he receives are wholly positive and from genuine fans who rate him and are grateful for the work he puts in for our team.  Legend!

[myrlas]

That's just it though mate - the late surge into the box showed him doing exactly that. For me he's demonstrated it before (the Europa league games in particular a couple of seasons back) but it was there against arguably one of the top three sides in the World game just now on Sunday.

You only roam when you're confident you're not deserting your post, don't you?

Lucas is not the same type of player as Redondo was, at all. Redondo was sublime in his passing game from deep in midfield. He was a quarterback who rarely used the long passes.

His main attributes were his sublime passing technique (that and being extremely left footed), finding the meeting striker along the floor with perfect weighted passes, and shielding the ball. 

Lucas is much more of a defensive destroyer than Redondo ever was. Lucas will never be the elegant defensive midfielder, and why should he? Let him continue to be Lucas and develop his own game.

If anything is similar it is the ability to read the game and rarely need to get down on the floor to win the ball. Just steal it instead.

PS! There used to be a 20 minute Redondo compilation against Dortmund away in CL on youtube in my favourites. That match told everyone who didn't know Redondo (apart from his fancy - and highly rare fancy flick against Henning Berg at Old Trafford) what he was all about. It's a shame it's been removed.

[U13]

Lucas is not the same type of player as Redondo was, at all. Redondo was sublime in his passing game from deep in midfield. He was a quarterback who rarely used the long passes.

His main attributes were his sublime passing technique (that and being extremely left footed), finding the meeting striker along the floor with perfect weighted passes, and shielding the ball. 

Lucas is much more of a defensive destroyer than Redondo ever was. Lucas will never be the elegant defensive midfielder, and why should he? Let him continue to be Lucas and develop his own game.

If anything is similar it is the ability to read the game and rarely need to get down on the floor to win the ball. Just steal it instead.

PS! There used to be a 20 minute Redondo compilation against Dortmund away in CL on youtube in my favourites. That match told everyone who didn't know Redondo (apart from his fancy - and highly rare fancy flick against Henning Berg at Old Trafford) what he was all about. It's a shame it's been removed.

I don't think they are that disimilar. I haven't seen the stats on who makes the most passes into our front players but I'd be very surprised if Lucas isn't amongst them, to me he seems to find the feet of Suarez with grounded passes from deep quite a lot.

Although he is a destroyer he's also technically sound, he tends to play it simple but when he finds himself in a tight spot he always seems to have the bit of trickery and guile needed to make himself some space.

I reckon the Redondo comparison is quite fitting.