Topic: UK General Election - Mordaunt, Mogg and Mad Liz all gone - STARMERGEDDON

[Armchair expert]

In other news, Frottage morphs into Jeremy Corbyn

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/23/senior-tories-line-up-to-denounce-nigel-Frottages-defence-of-putins-war

Senior Tories line up to denounce Nigel Frottage’s defence of Putin’s war

Rishi Sunak and a string of senior Conservatives have condemned Nigel Frottage for claiming the west provoked the Russian invasion of Ukraine, amid a growing internal Tory battle over how to deal with the Reform UK leader.

The prime minister accused Frottage of playing “into Putin’s hands” after he made the claim in a BBC Panorama interview on Friday, in which he linked Nato and EU expansion to the conflict in eastern Europe. Tom Tugendhat, the security minister went further, telling the Observer: “It doesn’t matter whether you’re Jeremy Corbyn or Nigel Frottage – if you parrot the Kremlin’s lies, you cannot be trusted with our national security.”

Home secretary James Cleverly also criticised the comments, adding that Frottage wanted to “destroy our party”. Ben Wallace, a former defence secretary, described Frottage as a “pub bore”. Labour leader Keir Starmer also condemned Frottage’s comments as “disgraceful”.

The Tories are desperate to halt the huge threat Reform UK poses to them, in some scenarios reducing their seats in the next parliament to below 100. The latest Opinium poll for the Observer gives Labour a 20-point lead over the Tories. It shows Reform only four points behind the Conservatives, on 16% of the vote

“Clear blue water still exists between the Conservatives and Reform, but Rishi Sunak will balk at a quarter of 2019 Tory voters backing Nigel Frottage’s party,” said James Crouch, head of policy and public affairs at Opinium.

The comments from Frottage were also seized upon by the Conservatives’ liberal wing, who fear that figures on the right of the party will encourage him to join the Tories after the election. “This is a very revealing comment showing the mask slipping,” said Damian Green, chair of the One Nation caucus. “Showing sympathy for a murderous tyrant who has killed hundreds of thousands of his own people is not the position of a mainstream democratic politician.”

There is a huge split aperson that I find irritating the Tories over Frottage – part of a wider battle over the direction of the party, which is set to burst into the open the moment the election campaign is over. Some senior Conservatives fear the party could break in two, especially if a new leader opens the door to Frottage joining. One former cabinet minister said he now feared “a fissure” after the election.

Tories on the liberal wing are concerned that in the heat of a leadership election, the main candidates may feel compelled to commit to allowing Frottage in to appease the party membership. Tory moderates have been largely holding their tongues during the campaign, which has seen the Conservatives focus on immigration to unite the right vote. That tactic was brutally undermined by Frottage’s re-entry as Reform UK’s leader.

Moderate MPs say they have been concentrating on limiting the damage with local campaigning and trying to keep the party in the centre ground as far as possible. They have also been examining what the party may look like after the election based on current polling and are confident that “no matter what the outcome”, the party can be stopped from lurching to the right in opposition.

Some senior figures have been particularly worried about the party’s lack of appeal to young voters, which was already evident but may have been exacerbated by policies such as the return of national service, designed to appeal to older voters considering a vote for Reform UK.

With less than a fortnight to polling day, morale in the party’s campaign has also taken a huge hit over two issues. Firstly, the revelations that three people linked to the Conservatives are subject to Gambling Commission inquiries over alleged betting relating to the election date has caused serious anger.

With candidates braced for further revelations, Sunak has refused to disclose how many Tories are under investigation. The party has said it will not “give a running commentary”, but it has led to ministers and candidates being asked about the inquiry during the crucial last weeks of the campaign. Sunak has said that anyone found to have broken the rules would “not only face the full consequences of the law but I will ensure that they are booted out of the Conservative Party, too”.

The second issue to hit morale has been the re­allocation of resources at Conservative campaign headquarters to defend safer seats, apparently now considered marginal according to the latest polling. It has led to some internal concerns about giving up swathes of the so-called red wall captured by Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson in 2019, though the accusation is rejected by the party.

Money is also said to be an issue. Some Tory candidates have said they have struggled for resources, while some regular donors have opted to sit out the 2024 contest. A fund­raising event at London’s exclusive Hurlingham Club last week took place without the prime minister, who instead sent a video message. The star turn of the evening was business secretary Kemi Badenoch, seen as a frontrunner for the leadership should the Tories crash to defeat. Several major donors did attend the event.

Not sure what the fuck that has to do with Jeremy Corbyn ?   Maybe move on eh as he's been gone 5 years

[Kenny's Jacket]

What prevents Labour being radical is a lack of money.

Lets try again, only on policies around spending.

[Red Beret]

Lets try again, only on policies around spending.

I repeat: we're dealing with a radicalised electorate that makes making even some seemingly common sense decisions challenging. I guess you didn't make it that far when reading my post.

[Jiminy Cricket]

[Dr. Beaker]

Come on fellas, we should be enjoying this.

[killer-heels]

Are there any good sites around tactical voting suggestions?

[Kenny's Jacket]

I repeat: we're dealing with a radicalised electorate that makes making even some seemingly common sense decisions challenging. I guess you didn't make it that far when reading my post.

So you  agree with what I said earlier its not always down to funding.

On this issue, as Alistair Campbell often says, its down to Labour to make a better case for what they do.

[Lisan Al Gaib]

Come on fellas, we should be enjoying this.

We should be but 3 posters can't help but jump on other posts like a gang of bullies...

[Kenny's Jacket]

Are there any good sites around tactical voting suggestions?

do you follow Carol Vorderman on twitter, she's on the ball wit this stuff

[Red Beret]

So you  agree with what I said earlier its not always down to funding.

On this issue, as Alistair Campbell often says, its down to Labour to make a better case for what they do.

Dear freaking lord, read my posts!

[TSC]

This has been the lead story on all news reports today and appears to have legs to run further.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c511nv3pjd6o

Unsurprisingly Labour has now formally requested that the Gambling Commission release the names of those under investigation.

[Red Beret]

This has been the lead story on all news reports today and appears to have legs to run further.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c511nv3pjd6o

Unsurprisingly Labour has now formally requested that the Gambling Commission release the names of those under investigation.

Well there's at least four people, and it's clearly not going to go away anytime soon. Tories can't help but fuck themselves over with petty corruption.

[Schmarn]

10 days to go and Sunak is campaigning in his own constituency.

For those bickering rather than enjoying this, the time to hold Labour to account is in office not during an election. The Blair offering in 1997 was likewise considered paltry by the left but they did a ton of stuff that wasn’t pre announced before the election. They gave independence to the BofE in their first week and spent billions on health and education.

I firmly expect Reeves to announce new measures on tax, borrowing and spending in her first budget blaming it on the Tories. The Tories will be in the midst of a bloody civil war for the leadership to do anything about it. But we have to get there first. That Starmer has taken us from despair to the verge of a colossal victory in 5 years is remarkable. It’s almost as if people have just priced that in rather than giving him some credit.

I’ll judge him in 2028/29.

[Red Beret]

10 days to go and Sunak is campaigning in his own constituency.

For those bickering rather than enjoying this, the time to hold Labour to account is in office not during an election. The Blair offering in 1997 was likewise considered paltry by the left but they did a ton of stuff that wasn’t pre announced before the election. They gave independence to the BofE in their first week and spent billions on health and education.

I firmly expect Reeves to announce new measures on tax, borrowing and spending in her first budget blaming it on the Tories. The Tories will be in the midst of a bloody civil war for the leadership to do anything about it. But we have to get there first. That Starmer has taken us from despair to the verge of a colossal victory in 5 years is remarkable. It’s almost as if people have just priced that in rather than giving him some credit.

I’ll judge him in 2028/29.

this. All I want to do is enjoy watching the Tories implode but people insist on complaining and saying "meh, Labour..." It's baffling and I'm not engaging with it anymore.

[Wabaloolah]

I see.

Be very funny if Sunak loses his seat, his constituency has been safe Tory seat, for over 100 years, funnily enough last time the Tories lost the seat was the wipeout in 1906, Sunak has a 27k majority in that seat too.

Then again it'd still be funny if Sunak wins the seat but the Tories are wiped out elsewhere, everyone knows Sunak will fuck off to California, that'll be the first bye-election of the next parliament regardless what Sunak has said about staying as MP.

absolutely it's a win win either way

[glewis93]

10 days to go and Sunak is campaigning in his own constituency.

For those bickering rather than enjoying this, the time to hold Labour to account is in office not during an election. The Blair offering in 1997 was likewise considered paltry by the left but they did a ton of stuff that wasn’t pre announced before the election. They gave independence to the BofE in their first week and spent billions on health and education.

I firmly expect Reeves to announce new measures on tax, borrowing and spending in her first budget blaming it on the Tories. The Tories will be in the midst of a bloody civil war for the leadership to do anything about it. But we have to get there first. That Starmer has taken us from despair to the verge of a colossal victory in 5 years is remarkable. It’s almost as if people have just priced that in rather than giving him some credit.

I’ll judge him in 2028/29.

  Exactly.

The primary objective was always to remove the Tories. I've had endless arguments with people calling the Labour manifesto "centre-right" because it isn't as left-wing as they would like. The reality is, you need a manifesto with broad appeal and very little the Tories and the plethora of right-wing press can attack. The general public will believe anything the rags tell them, there's very little room for a Labour leader to move around in to be electable.

I absolutely want more. I want more investment in public services and for the country to begin repairing international relations to become a respected voice again. It's not going to happen overnight, I'm not going to agree with everything they do, but my god they can't be any worse than Tories.

There are so many people claiming they're the red Tories, failing to see that kind of rigid idealism is a factor in why we've had 14 years of the actual Tories. The level of forensic analysis the Labour Party get over any other is staggering. If you're anything except a right-wing fanatic then the only realistic option right now is a Labour government led by Starmer. Being a perpetual protest opposition results in absolutely nothing, a Labour government that is more centrist than you'd like is infinitely better for the country's direction than the alternative.

Give them a chance, see if things improve and hold them to account, but in government not opposition.

[RedDeadRejection]

Nothing about this campaign so far is coincidence in my opinion. Reckon there is powerful Tufton (foreign) money at play in the hugely shite and gaff prone tories fall and the rise of these far right bellends. It can't be coincidence that we are always talking about that twat Frottage. He's fucking everywhere!

[Red46]

10 days to go and Sunak is campaigning in his own constituency.

For those bickering rather than enjoying this, the time to hold Labour to account is in office not during an election. The Blair offering in 1997 was likewise considered paltry by the left but they did a ton of stuff that wasn’t pre announced before the election. They gave independence to the BofE in their first week and spent billions on health and education.

I firmly expect Reeves to announce new measures on tax, borrowing and spending in her first budget blaming it on the Tories. The Tories will be in the midst of a bloody civil war for the leadership to do anything about it. But we have to get there first. That Starmer has taken us from despair to the verge of a colossal victory in 5 years is remarkable. It’s almost as if people have just priced that in rather than giving him some credit.

I’ll judge him in 2028/29.

Blair could have borrowed that money he pumped into health and education from the treasury, we've got our own central bank [BoE], he could have just fired up the printing presses and put it on the national tab at zero percent interest, instead he chose to lend it from private investors at eye watering rates of interest, in some cases i'm talking 33%. Why would anyone do that you might ask, well, basically when he got in he was scared of capital flight so he stuffed the spivs in the City of London's pockets full of taxpayers money to show them he was a pukka guy who could be trusted. Those PFI contracts cost the country a fortune and to this day are millstones around many NHS trusts and Education authorities necks.

[west_london_red]

Blair could have borrowed that money he pumped into health and education from the treasury, we've got our own central bank [BoE], he could have just fired up the printing presses and put it on the national tab at zero percent interest, instead he chose to lend it from private investors at eye watering rates of interest, in some cases i'm talking 33%. Why would anyone do that you might ask, well, basically when he got in he was scared of capital flight so he stuffed the spivs in the City of London's pockets full of taxpayers money to show them he was a pukka guy who could be trusted. Those PFI contracts cost the country a fortune and to this day are millstones around many NHS trusts and Education authorities necks.

Do you have a link or a source for any of that? No doubt the PFI contracts have offered poor value, but printing money is inflationary and 33% interest sounds dubious.

[Wabaloolah]

Exactly.

The primary objective was always to remove the Tories. I've had endless arguments with people calling the Labour manifesto "centre-right" because it isn't as left-wing as they would like. The reality is, you need a manifesto with broad appeal and very little the Tories and the plethora of right-wing press can attack. The general public will believe anything the rags tell them, there's very little room for a Labour leader to move around in to be electable.

I absolutely want more. I want more investment in public services and for the country to begin repairing international relations to become a respected voice again. It's not going to happen overnight, I'm not going to agree with everything they do, but my god they can't be any worse than Tories.

There are so many people claiming they're the red Tories, failing to see that kind of rigid idealism is a factor in why we've had 14 years of the actual Tories. The level of forensic analysis the Labour Party get over any other is staggering. If you're anything except a right-wing fanatic then the only realistic option right now is a Labour government led by Starmer. Being a perpetual protest opposition results in absolutely nothing, a Labour government that is more centrist than you'd like is infinitely better for the country's direction than the alternative.

Give them a chance, see if things improve and hold them to account, but in government not opposition.

great post 👏👏

[Wabaloolah]

The Lib Dem manifesto is more traditionally, left wing, than Labour's.

The Labour manifesto is pretty much bang in the middle, with the Tories to the right, and Reform further right, still.

The Lib Dems have no chance of forming the government though and the only time they managed a coalition they were complicit in the policies of austerity that they clearly supported. Not entirely sure what left wing policies they managed to get Cameron and George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford to agree to.

I wish Labour would take a few more risks which hopefully they will when they are in government but they have to be in government to actually make the changes, hence the relatively mellow manifesto

[Statto Red]

This, from
@IainDale
’s newsletter/blogpost, is gobsmacking. If true, it not only indicates a mix of despair and panic at the heart of Sunak’s government, it reflects incredibly badly on the Tory Party.



https://xcancel.com/MatthewStadlen/status/1804967128820572338

[TepidT2O]

Apparently the daily mail are leading with a story about the Russian ambassador describing Farrage as an ally.

He and tice and spitting feathers.  Earlier today Farrage threatened legal action against the Ukrainian president for the same reason.

Whe you push them in on what  they are actually like, they don’t like it.

[Red Beret]

Blair could have borrowed that money he pumped into health and education from the treasury, we've got our own central bank [BoE], he could have just fired up the printing presses and put it on the national tab at zero percent interest, instead he chose to lend it from private investors at eye watering rates of interest, in some cases i'm talking 33%. Why would anyone do that you might ask, well, basically when he got in he was scared of capital flight so he stuffed the spivs in the City of London's pockets full of taxpayers money to show them he was a pukka guy who could be trusted. Those PFI contracts cost the country a fortune and to this day are millstones around many NHS trusts and Education authorities necks.

Oh just absolutely fuck off with this shit.  The Tories spent £37 billion fucking quid on a track and trace app that didn't even fucking work, and you want to dig out some shit from Labour from 25 fucking years ago?

Give yer head a wobble lad. And learn to type in paragraphs whilst you're at it.

[Wabaloolah]

Yes it is. I know they are going to do it but I was giving examples of things they can do with a majority that will not cost any significant cash. That's of course one of them and i believe there is a strong feeling they will repeal the voter id stuff.

they'll either repeal the voter ID bill or at least widen what can be used as ID. I mean the ability not to be able to use a Young Person's Railcard but you can use a Senior citizens one is discriminatory for starters.

Can you imagine the outcry if it was the other way around

[Red Beret]

This, from
@IainDale
’s newsletter/blogpost, is gobsmacking. If true, it not only indicates a mix of despair and panic at the heart of Sunak’s government, it reflects incredibly badly on the Tory Party.



https://xcancel.com/MatthewStadlen/status/1804967128820572338

It's easy to be sceptical over polls, but we have to remember that political parties commission their own private polls. We rarely hear much about them, unless they're leaked to the press. So whilst we might be treating some of the seat projections with a grain of salt, I reckon the Tories are taking them very seriously.

Bozo basically ejected everyone from the party who had any competence and ability in his power grab. And now it's coming to bite them in the arse.

[Wabaloolah]

Apparently the daily mail are leading with a story about the Russian ambassador describing Farrage as an ally.

He and tice and spitting feathers.  Earlier today Farrage threatened legal action against the Ukrainian president for the same reason.

Whe you push them in on what  they are actually like, they don’t like it.

The Mail.appear to be taking action to limit the damage to the Tories, Frottage definitely appears to have shot himself in the foot though and as you say when pressed on issues he just can't handle the pressure.

Nick Robinson ripped him to bits and Frottage got rattled, it was great to watch and even greater to watch the c*nt squirm

[Statto Red]

they'll either repeal the voter ID bill or at least widen what can be used as ID. I mean the ability not to be able to use a Young Person's Railcard but you can use a Senior citizens one is discriminatory for starters.

Can you imagine the outcry if it was the other way around

It's ridiculous i can't use my ENCTS disabled pass for voter id, but seniors can use the senior version of the ENCTS pass for voter id, Rees Mogg admitted it was done solely to gerrymander elections, & i can't remember any voter fraud under the old system.

 

[Wabaloolah]

It's easy to be sceptical over polls, but we have to remember that political parties commission their own private polls. We rarely hear much about them, unless they're leaked to the press. So whilst we might be treating some of the seat projections with a grain of salt, I reckon the Tories are taking them very seriously.

Bozo basically ejected everyone from the party who had any competence and ability in his power grab. And now it's coming to bite them in the arse.

oh yes I imagine their private polling is telling them that pretty much every seat is in play

[Red Beret]

they'll either repeal the voter ID bill or at least widen what can be used as ID. I mean the ability not to be able to use a Young Person's Railcard but you can use a Senior citizens one is discriminatory for starters.

Can you imagine the outcry if it was the other way around

I think the smart thing to do would be to repeal it altogether. Amending it means that if the Tories or their successors return to power, they could "amend" it again. Whereas if it's repealed altogether, then a case has to be made for reinstating it.

[Elmo!]

The Tories spent £37 billion fucking quid on a track and trace app that didn't even fucking work

God I hate defending the Tories but I also hate bad argumetns and this is just completely wrong yet gets repeated all the time. The £37bn was for the whole test and trace program and the vast vast majority of that was on the free testing.

The app was IIRC in the tens or hundreds of miliions - still an obscene amount of money - just make that argument.

It just makes people look silly when they repeat this.

[Wabaloolah]

It's ridiculous i can't use my ENCTS disabled pass for voter id, but seniors can use the senior version of the ENCTS pass for voter id, Rees Mogg admitted it was done solely to gerrymander elections, & i can't remember any voter fraud under the old system.

 

There were five convictions for electoral fraud at the 2019 election, it's not a major issue and never has been in the UK. You would think postal votes would be more liable to fraud than in person voting and for postal voters you don't need any picture ID of course

[Wabaloolah]

I think the smart thing to do would be to repeal it altogether. Amending it means that if the Tories or their successors return to power, they could "amend" it again. Whereas if it's repealed altogether, then a case has to be made for reinstating it.

yes think that's a fair point and I would have no issue with that whatsoever

[Red Beret]

yes think that's a fair point and I would have no issue with that whatsoever

A compromise position would be to issue a Voter ID card for everyone who registers to vote, but that might be costly. I have to renew my registration every two year or so, so that would suggest cards wouldn't be valid for very long.

[Red Beret]

God I hate defending the Tories but I also hate bad argumetns and this is just completely wrong yet gets repeated all the time. The £37bn was for the whole test and trace program and the vast vast majority of that was on the free testing.

The app was IIRC in the tens or hundreds of miliions - still an obscene amount of money - just make that argument.

It just makes people look silly when they repeat this.

Fine, I stand corrected on that issue.

But the point remains that the Tories routinely used the public purse as their own personal piggy bank and they cultivated support from their rich mates in doing so.

Whatever Labour did, especially in its early years, was about trying to find a way for the state and private sectors to work together in a manner that was mutually beneficial and profitable. Yes, it might have been misguided, and it was probably also ultimately corrupted - but it's literally comparing apples to oranges.

The Tories enter government with this kind of shit at the forefront of their mind. Especially under Bozo - it was almost pre meditated. FFS, you have Tories getting stung on betting charges, that's how ingrained the grift is!

[koptommy93]

Frottage is properly rattled, he's terrible at dealing with scrutiny

[Red-Soldier]

Apparently the daily mail are leading with a story about the Russian ambassador describing Farrage as an ally.

He and tice and spitting feathers.  Earlier today Farrage threatened legal action against the Ukrainian president for the same reason.

Whe you push them in on what  they are actually like, they don’t like it.

They are funded by Russia, so they can't complain.

[oldfordie]

they'll either repeal the voter ID bill or at least widen what can be used as ID. I mean the ability not to be able to use a Young Person's Railcard but you can use a Senior citizens one is discriminatory for starters.

Can you imagine the outcry if it was the other way around

I think it would be a massive mistake to put in anything about voter ID etc in the Manifesto, the Torys are already trying to scare voters over Labour having a supermajority, how they will rig the system to stay in power and Labour voluntary give them ammo like this. we all know the purpose of voter ID, Frottage argued for it after Trump argued election fraud but this is not about getting into arguments that have big downsides with little gain. lets face it if your not outraged by voter ID already then your not seeing it as a threat. these people may well swallow the Torys scares of a Labour having the power to rig elections with a supermajority.
Same with workers rights,  Labour are saying they will outlaw  zero hour contracts, fire and rehire etc but why make it a election issue, fire and rehire arguments from some employees will bring attack of companys not taking chances to offer people jobs, Labour changed their views on zero hour contracts after speaking to people on these contracts and this could cast doubt in some voters minds.
Same with Nationalisation, Energy and rail are on the cards but why argue for anything else right now if they aren't in a position to defend all the many questions this will bring only to be called liars when they don't deliver.
Labour don't need to turn these issues into policys going into a election,  they can just pass these into law when they have a majority in power, doubt if many will even notice the change to workers rights when Labour are in power but they will notice it if Labour make it a election issue. all the other hopes on Nationalisation can be made when Labour are in power in sensible debates rather than the shit election farce debates. change voter ID without any fanfare, hardly anyone will notice.
I have my doubts on Starmer and am sure they will become apparent when he goes from being the opposition leader on the attack to the PM in power having to defend himself but ive no doubts when it comes to his tactics. I don't think these tactics have just come to him since he became leader either, he's probably spent years frustrated at watching Labour make unnecessary mistakes.

[west_london_red]

Frottage is properly rattled, he's terrible at dealing with scrutiny

That’s because he’s never been under any

[Kashinoda]

10 days to go and Sunak is campaigning in his own constituency.

For those bickering rather than enjoying this, the time to hold Labour to account is in office not during an election. The Blair offering in 1997 was likewise considered paltry by the left but they did a ton of stuff that wasn’t pre announced before the election. They gave independence to the BofE in their first week and spent billions on health and education.

I firmly expect Reeves to announce new measures on tax, borrowing and spending in her first budget blaming it on the Tories. The Tories will be in the midst of a bloody civil war for the leadership to do anything about it. But we have to get there first. That Starmer has taken us from despair to the verge of a colossal victory in 5 years is remarkable. It’s almost as if people have just priced that in rather than giving him some credit.

I’ll judge him in 2028/29.

There's very little room to borrow without spooking the markets and damaging the UK's reputation, aperson that I find irritatingst other things. We're still living in the shadow of Trussonomics.

They'll likely be able to 'borrow to invest', but that will not include public services, healthcare etc. and will likely need a change to fiscal rules to reclassify debt. We're light years away from 1997, it's not a point for comparison.

As for tax rises, good luck with that. The only pool of taxes Labour has left open will raise paltry sums. The subject of tax has been at the forefront of this election, I'm not sure how it's viable to raise them anytime soon without a colossal backlash.