Topic: Everton 0 - 0 Liverpool Full time meh

[jillcwhomever]

I know mate it just grates on me sometimes. We got ourselves out of a massive rut from the start of the season and at that point some criticism was fine because the manager was making mistakes. However now it's not justified at all, any manager would have been in a sticky situation with Gerrard yesterday, he's a club legend and we were playing Everton, a club who even he normally raises his game to another level. I think Brendan was damned if he took him off by some, damned by others for leaving him on. One bad performance in however many games, things are much, much better than you may be led the believe reading this thread.

I agree about the Gerrard business, but that's just fans for you isn't is? Think back to when Rafa substituted him and the stick he got that time.

Before yesterday we were top on the form league, so we've had a good run. Providing we beat Spurs, we still have a good chance. But no one will win every game, apart from Chelsea probably. We just have to take each game as it comes, be more ruthless in front of goal, I'm sure we'll have a good end to the season.

Fingers crossed about Lucas and Coutinho in the meantime.

[Motty]

Bit negative in here ain't it.

We've played well most games lately ,yesterday was just one of those off days ,and that was everyone not just Stevie so people need to stop blaming him being on the pitch on the performance.

[Upinsmoke]

You disappoint me L666, where has the optimism gone from last season, where is that belief. That was just you and me bar the odd one or two believing in a top 3, let alone a top 4. Believe again brother. 


Quote me on this - Liverpool will finish in the top 4.

Done

[jillcwhomever]

After a derby game I want to see our players needing oxygen and getting sick at the side of the pitch. The passion and urgency wasn't there yesterday.

If things go our way today we'll only be 4 points off 4th and 6 off 3rd. However, if things don't go our way, we could also be closer to 10th place than 4th which would be a hodgsonesque situation to be in.

The next few weeks will make or break our season.

You have got to be realistic though. We have played three very physical teams on the bounce after yesterday. Beginning of the second half Everton couldn't get hold of the ball we were dominating so much. It was only the last quarter were we started to look tired, they came into the game fresh as well. You can't play at the top of your game in every single one. Had we taken one of our chances we'd have gone on and beaten them easily. 

[jillcwhomever]

Bit negative in here ain't it.

We've played well most games lately ,yesterday was just one of those off days ,and that was everyone not just Stevie so people need to stop blaming him being on the pitch on the performance.

Come on Craig we didn't win, considering this is RAWK what do you expect? 

[richiedouglas]

I think martinez was quite happy shutting the game out. He'd have been out on his ear if they lost.

I respect joe allen for his tidy play, but i think his reintroduction really stifled our game. He loves a wall pass back to the cb, whereas lucas has begun to turn and play.

Coutinho is the key to getting the best from sturridge so to swap one for the other was a bit poor. I do wonder what impact lambert could have made early, he certainly shook things up.

[L666KOP]

You disappoint me L666, where has the optimism gone from last season, where is that belief. That was just you and me bar the odd one or two believing in a top 3, let alone a top 4. Believe again brother. 


Quote me on this - Liverpool will finish in the top 4.

I do believe J.

The 6 pointers have to be won though. And I think that we need to stop with Gerrard.

We missed a trick yesterday, our next two games could well be season defining, win them and I believe we will get top 4.

Beat both Utd and Arsenal on top and I think top 3 is on.

[Upinsmoke]

Come on Craig we didn't win, considering this is RAWK what do you expect?

Your just as bad. Can't you deal with the fact some people are more impulsive and reactionary than others, some people deal with everything differently. It might take days to realise your perspective was over reactionary minute's after the final whistle. Your reactionary to the reactionary's.

Your the first to call out those who see things differently, what's up with that, can't you hold your tongue?

[Motty]

Come on Craig we didn't win, considering this is RAWK what do you expect?

Your right I should know better Jill

Yesterday was crap but I take the hope that it's just a one off and we'll be back to our best next game. Seems most in here think how we played yesterday is going to be our new standard from here on in.

Give me the hope perspective any day

[jillcwhomever]

Your right I should know better Jill

Yesterday was crap but I take the hope that it's just a one off and we'll be back to our best next game. Seems most in here think how we played yesterday is going to be our new standard from here on in.

Give me the hope perspective any day

Should do playing Tottenham next he has a fair record against them does Brendan. 

[GrkStav]

For the record, we were not "crap" vs Everton. We were not outstanding, clearly we weren't effective/efficient in attack but we were never dire, poor, crap.

[HaskoLFC]

Not sure if it's been said on here but yesterday Gerrard was completely anonymous..and I don't blame him at all.

We all know he can't manage that many minutes, and then Rodgers decides to give him 180mins in 3 days..cmon. I think it was obvious he would play yesterday but with a bit of foresight Rodgers should have rested him or started from the bench vs Bolton.

Without wanting to get carried away our form has improved significantly in recent week but the pessimist and cynic in me puts it down to the lack of need in rotating.

Now we've got the FA cup vs palace and the Europa league starting again, I just think Rodgers has a hell of a lot to learn about managing a squad.

Coutinhos form has been magnificent and so has Sterlings, but we also spent >20m on strikers in the summer, surely a game vs Bolton is the perfect place to use them. Now we've got spurs coming up and I sure as hell hope Lallanas back or studge is fit to start.

[Motty]

For the record, we were not "crap" vs Everton. We were not outstanding, clearly we weren't effective/efficient in attack but we were never dire, poor, crap.

Meant the game in genaral was crap mainly but compared to performances of late I'd say we ourselves were a bit crap yesterday as well.

[RK7]

Fourth is a massive task for Arsenal, Mancs, Soton, Spurs and us. Unless you think it is way way easier for them of course.....

I do think it will be easier for some of them yes, United don't  need to worry about European  football  which will make it easier for them, Arsenals remaining fuxtures make it easier for them and Spurs have put themselves  in with a great shout because  of results against their rivals.

[Motty]

Should do playing Tottenham next he has a fair record against them does Brendan. 

Yep no doubt in my mind on that one.

[jason42]

This is a comparison of our two 'central' midfielders yesterday....
Unsuccessful Passes - Player A - 6
Unsuccessful Passes - Player B – 14

Tackles – Player A – 4. Tackles Won% - 50%
Tackles – Player B – 1. Tackles Won% - 100%

Clearances – Player A – 1
Clearance – Player B – 3

Touches – Player A – 80
Touches – Player B – 84

Duels Won – Player A – 55.6%
Duels Won – Player B – 33.3%

Aerial Duels Won – Player A – 50%
Aerial Duals Won – Player B – 33.3%

Total Passes – Player A – 68
Total Passes – Player B – 73

Pass Accuracy – Player A – 91.2%
Pass Accuracy – Player B – 80.8%

Defensive Actions - Player A - 7
Defensive Actions - Player B - 10


Player A is Henderson and Player B is Allen.

[Solomon Grundy]

Meant the game in genaral was crap mainly but compared to performances of late I'd say we ourselves were a bit crap yesterday as well.

Yeah it was a 'crap' game to watch. The worst derby I've watched in a long time. But there were certain areas of the game we played well and certain performances to be really positive about, like Mignolets, Skrtels, Ibes and Cans.

[[new username under construction]]

The Gerrard one is a pain to me, he looked out of it again yesterday but as other have said, he's still a match winner. What annoys me though is that he's going to start most (if not all) of the big games the rest of the season and we're a bit worse with him in there :/

Thought Everton played ok, looked like they were trying, we looked better and had more class (but still a bit crap), maybe too many subs (and wrong ones) threw us a bit

[Peabee]

It really was bizarre. Moreno would have made more sense if we needed a goal.

Speaking of Moreno, I hope Rodgers gives him a rollicking for that chance he should have taken on his right foot.  He's one of the most one-footed players I've ever seen (I may be slightly exaggerating). 

[Motty]

Yeah it was a 'crap' game to watch. The worst derby I've watched in a long time. But there were certain areas of the game we played well and certain performances to be really positive about, like Mignolets, Skrtels, Ibes and Cans.

Agreed ,our defense was pretty solid. But overall I'm left with the feeling we were a bit crap yesterday ,only a little bit mind but crap all the same.

Too many players looking for the easy pass instead of trying something ,and most of them throwing in a off day resulted in us getting dragged down to there level.

Not a team in the world who doesn't have days like yesterday though, shit happens.

[Peabee]

The Gerrard one is a pain to me, he looked out of it again yesterday but as other have said, he's still a match winner. What annoys me though is that he's going to start most (if not all) of the big games the rest of the season and we're a bit worse with him in there :/

Thought Everton played ok, looked like they were trying, we looked better and had more class (but still a bit crap), maybe too many subs (and wrong ones) threw us a bit

It's a case of motivation along with the impact of 16 years of top flight football.  The motivational aspect has an effect on his brain.  Decline in mental function is more to do with how we use our brains as we get older., rather than the small decline in neuroplasticity, as our brains do remain plastic all our lives.  Does Gerrard learn anything new each day to keep his mind sharp?  I doubt he does in training or even after games.  He's seen it all before.   He should learn a language or something. 

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Gerrard definitely should have started. It's not like we're rolling out a 90-year-old for sentiments sake.

It's so easy to say in retrospect. And of course he doesn't 'have' to start vs United, CIty or Chelsea. This was the derby, his final one.

The whole team was pretty poor, don't lambast Rodgers for playing one of our greatest players in a game that clearly meant so much to him.

I do, however, agree that it is asking a lot of him to play 90 minutes midweek and then this.

And just imagine if that bicycle kick had gone in!!!

It's not retrospect. I strongly argumented against it before the game on other forums ans social media.

[moloch]

So what about the Ibe miss kick? Small margins & all that.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

If Lucas is out injured, wouldn't it more likely be Henderson-Allen not Gerrard-Allen?

What I meant was it's not good to play 1 of either Allen or Gerrard next to Henderson, ie Gerrard/Henderson or Allen Henderson. An Allen/Gerrard combination is something only Hodgson would dream up.

[Solomon Grundy]

What I meant was it's not good to play 1 of either Allen or Gerrard next to Henderson, ie Gerrard/Henderson or Allen Henderson. An Allen/Gerrard combination is something only Hodgson would dream up.

Allen and Henderson wouldn't be that bad imo. We could possibly get by until Lucas came back. I'd much rather Lovren miraculously found his form again so we could push Can into midfield though. Gerrard next to either Henderson or Allen is a definite no-no for me.

[firing squad]

Very strange derby, seemed like both teams couldn't really be arsed.

[The G in Gerrard]

Can deserves a spot in midfield if Lucas is injured

[Solomon Grundy]

Can deserves a spot in midfield if Lucas is injured

That would mean Lovren having to step up big time. I hope he can do it. I really do, because we have spent a lot of money on him and Can is being wasted at CB.

[jason42]

Can deserves a spot in midfield if Lucas is injured

Why change a Back 3 that is working well? In our last 8 games in all competitions, we have only conceded 3 goals - 2 of which were to Chelsea and the other one a penalty.
Joe Allen has played in 3 of those games and the only goal scored was the penalty.

[adamski29]

Fourth is a massive task for Arsenal, Mancs, Soton, Spurs and us. Unless you think it is way way easier for them of course.....

Only realised utds run in is really difficult, a balance out for the easy start they had. It will be as difficult for them as anyone.

[SlowRap]

That would mean Lovren having to step up big time. I hope he can do it. I really do, because we have spent a lot of money on him and Can is being wasted at CB.

You could always have Johnson in the back three as the ball carrying centre half, he's done well the last couple of times he played.

[The G in Gerrard]

That would mean Lovren having to step up big time. I hope he can do it. I really do, because we have spent a lot of money on him and Can is being wasted at CB.

Yep. Long term it needs to be Lovren rather than Johnson. Was Manquillo injured? Also found our subs to be odd yesterday with no Borini at all when he normally gets used so often.

[Solomon Grundy]

You could always have Johnson in the back three as the ball carrying centre half, he's done well the last couple of times he played.

Could do I suppose. I think I'd rather give our 20 mill pound defender another chance though.

[The G in Gerrard]

Why change a Back 3 that is working well? In our last 8 games in all competitions, we have only conceded 3 goals - 2 of which were to Chelsea and the other one a penalty.
Joe Allen has played in 3 of those games and the only goal scored was the penalty.

Can seems like only midfielder outside of Gerrard that can shoot from outside of the box and Allen concerns me defensively still.

[Adeemo]

Can deserves a spot in midfield if Lucas is injured

I don't know, part of me thinks if we're planning of persevering with the back 3, then maybe we should let Emre continue to grow into that role, he offers so much when he steps forward into that right hand channel. The one thing he needs to learn though when he does come forward, is that 9 times out 10 he should be playing the simple pass to our right sided player, he always seems determined to find a killer pass through the middle, or to continue dribbling until he's tackled.

[Fordy]

Can seems like only midfielder outside of Gerrard that can shoot from outside of the box and Allen concerns me defensively still.

I would go along with that.
Allen can't shoot
Henderson shooting is awful
Lucas isn't designed to shoot

[fowlermagic]

A few lads came out of that dull game with some praise as Skrtel, Can & especially Ibe were outstanding. We def looked like the only side that was going home with the 3 points but still a draw was about the right result for such a drab derby. The blood only boiled over once with that wee tussle btw Henderson and Naysmith. Sterling had some opportunities and SG shook off 10 plus years to get that scissor kick in. Wonderful technique but even he was not at the races.

We will take a point at Goodisonm could have been 3 but well worth it if we just found a gem in Ibe who just made himself our right wingback for the forseeable future.

[bigbear]

It was all a little bit passive for me. The passing had no zip to it and if I was watching that second half without knowing the score i'd have been convinced we were winning 1-0 and just trying to draw them out without giving anything soft away.

Don't know if Coutinho was injured as he got a few clobbers but if not I would never have taken him off or Sterling for that measure. I felt as soon as we made the changes we looked less likely to score.

For me, Gerrard was kept on to keep him happy  and that just can't be right.

[Phil M]

It was all a little bit passive for me. The passing had no zip to it and if I was watching that second half without knowing the score i'd have been convinced we were winning 1-0 and just trying to draw them out without giving anything soft away.

Don't know if Coutinho was injured as he got a few clobbers but if not I would never have taken him off or Sterling for that measure. I felt as soon as we made the changes we looked less likely to score.

For me, Gerrard was kept on to keep him happy  and that just can't be right.

Saying that, Gerrard had the free kick and that brilliant acrobatic volley which on another day could have gone in. It's not as if he went missing. We didn't play through him as we might have done in previous years, the play didn't revolve around him, but he was still crucial in keeping possession, he linked especially well with Ibe and Can on the right. Our attacking phases, especially once Coutinho went off and Sturridge came on, involved a deeper build up and slower passing, there was little in the way of attempted through balls between the lines. Sturridge came deep to link play. With Coutinho on the pitch he's more inclined to get into positions such as v West Ham where he knows the quality of the pass from our No.10 will be excellent. Sterling seemed to tire towards the end and didn't seem as willing to take his man on.

[jason42]

Can seems like only midfielder outside of Gerrard that can shoot from outside of the box and Allen concerns me defensively still.

Allen - 3 games played - 1 goal conceded and that a penalty
Lucas - 5 games played - 2 goals conceded

Not that much between them....