Topic: Edge of Terminator. Live, Die, Repeat.

[Samie]

Many people are saying the guy on the left is Robert Patrick. He's in a scene where the new T1000 Lee Byung Hun crashes through. 

[Mouth]

Yup, that's him.

[oojason]

Why keep Arnold if you're recasting everyone else?  May as well have gone the whole hog with it.

Personally, I would have got as much of the original cast back as possible and the done some funky parallel timeline storytelling with Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese all having survived and being the ages they are now but then they realise that things are even more fucked with them alive and they all have to sacrifice themselves in order to restore the T1 timeline.

Me too mate - reminded me of this 2 year old fan-made trailer:-

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-2hvYHkI8Uc?fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-2hvYHkI8Uc?fs=1</a>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2hvYHkI8Uc

^ it had me more excited for a new Terminator film than the real trailer did!

[kennedy81]

So they're gonna try stopping Judgement Day even though it already happened? Right.
The whole franchise has just become a joke at this stage. They should have just kept going with the story into the future, instead of trying to re-hash the original with some daft plot.

[Haemoglobin]

Biggest drop-off in quality of an amazing film saga, do yous reckon? I know there are lots of startlingly original flicks which spawned an awful blatant cash-in first sequel and beyond, but in terms of Brilliant-Brilliant-Gash-Gash-Gasher (as seems likely), it's mad how it just plummets after those early chapters, without even the excuse of a tiny straight-to-video budget.


Those first two will live forever, they stand up strong even with the fx looking very dated in parts now. The rest are utterly ruined by dumb shite that never should have got beyond a first story draft. It's a damn shame, 'cause like many have said, there are interesting cinematic tales still to tell within this saga.

[Samie]

I heard the new producers had to get this film into production ASAP or the rights of the franchise would go back to James Cameron in 2018 or something. It's why they've plotted a sequel to this garbage as well set for 2017.

[wampa1]

So they're gonna try stopping Judgement Day even though it already happened? Right.
The whole franchise has just become a joke at this stage. They should have just kept going with the story into the future, instead of trying to re-hash the original with some daft plot.

They tried that with Salvation.

[Red Beret]

Biggest drop-off in quality of an amazing film saga, do yous reckon? I know there are lots of startlingly original flicks which spawned an awful blatant cash-in first sequel and beyond, but in terms of Brilliant-Brilliant-Gash-Gash-Gasher (as seems likely), it's mad how it just plummets after those early chapters, without even the excuse of a tiny straight-to-video budget.


Those first two will live forever, they stand up strong even with the fx looking very dated in parts now. The rest are utterly ruined by dumb shite that never should have got beyond a first story draft. It's a damn shame, 'cause like many have said, there are interesting cinematic tales still to tell within this saga.

Some of the concepts in T3 were interesting: that Skynet was software, not hardware; the TX; the early model machines.  What ruined it was an Arnie already past his prime, the shoddy exploding power cell plot hack, poor performances from the male and female leads and yeah an ill thought out script.  As a stand-alone it's a decent film - certainly better than T4 - but it pales next to the first two.

[Haemoglobin]

Some of the concepts in T3 were interesting: that Skynet was software, not hardware; the TX; the early model machines.  What ruined it was an Arnie already past his prime, the shoddy exploding power cell plot hack, poor performances from the male and female leads and yeah an ill thought out script.  As a stand-alone it's a decent film - certainly better than T4 - but it pales next to the first two.

Yeah, the elements that aren't utterly terrible in T3 are actually pretty decent... it's just that they're vastly outnumbered. In a great film, that ending could have been absolute perfection. Once again, it whiffs a little of studio meddling and rushing shit through, rather than the kind of conscientious artistic quality control that could've lovingly sculpted that screenplay into something genuinely worthwhile.

It's Cameron's baby, so even when he's basically taking the piss in parts of T2, the TLC is still so obviously there. It's clear he was never gona hand in a half-arsed sequel, he just added a little self-referential humour and then concentrated to the fullest on piecing together the best sci-fi action blockbuster he possible could, with a delve far deeper into a superb character in Sarah Connor to boot. You never feel the subsequent instalments have that important creative element of "nah, scrap that idea, that'd be shit on screen", it's just all sort of tossed in there. Terminator films painted very much by-the-numbers... but they even got some of those numbers wrong like an idiot, and coloured outside the lines and shit.

[Macphisto80]

Some of the concepts in T3 were interesting: that Skynet was software, not hardware; the TX; the early model machines.  What ruined it was an Arnie already past his prime, the shoddy exploding power cell plot hack, poor performances from the male and female leads and yeah an ill thought out script.  As a stand-alone it's a decent film - certainly better than T4 - but it pales next to the first two.

T3 felt like a film that could have went straight to DVD, although saying that, at least it remained canon to the first and second film. It basically was just a rehash of those two, with the plot of T2 overall. The thing is, T3 could have just been told via exposition or flashbacks in a proper 3rd film set in the future war. There was just no need to have an almost 2 our film showing what we already knew was going to happen. It offered nothing new. I just find it amazing that Hollywood, and all those involved with the various hack jobs on this series since the amazing second film, were allowed to be so casual with it and persist with serving up more big budget turds based on something that could and should have been amazing had it actually fallen into the hands of someone with actual talent. There's too many hacks in Hollywood stealing a living.

[Red Beret]

Well what I'd say is that I watched T3 and enjoyed it for what it is and I can actually rewatch it.  I've never watched T4 properly and I never intend to.

You are right though, T3 seemed to have been put together by committee, with no respect to the previous films - just taking the very best elements from both and lumping them shoddily into the same film.  Perhaps I was harsh on the actors and they were just trying to do the best they could with the material they had.

EDIT: If they had the sense, they'd probably pull a "Tron 2" and just morph Arnie to look younger and use a body double where necessary.  Worked in T4 a treat - that's the only good bit in the entire film imo.

[lionel_messias]

They want a new TRILOGY, they are ready to shoot another two, back to back.

I think this will flop though. Too many big franchises next year. Looks like a really shit mega-mix of one and two as well.

Hollywood really is turning into a parody these days.

[wampa1]

Not a chance this spawns a new trilogy.

[Brian Blessed]

Well what I'd say is that I watched T3 and enjoyed it for what it is and I can actually rewatch it.  I've never watched T4 properly and I never intend to.

You are right though, T3 seemed to have been put together by committee, with no respect to the previous films - just taking the very best elements from both and lumping them shoddily into the same film.  Perhaps I was harsh on the actors and they were just trying to do the best they could with the material they had.

EDIT: If they had the sense, they'd probably pull a "Tron 2" and just morph Arnie to look younger and use a body double where necessary.  Worked in T4 a treat - that's the only good bit in the entire film imo.

Well they did have young Arnold in the trailer.

[Red Beret]

Is this what you mean?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/PJJBZHkcALE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/PJJBZHkcALE</a>


Looks like they wasted the opportunity to me.

[Mouth]

The only reason to keep rehashing the original is in order to have the big lump in it. Otherwise story wise it makes no sense to have the same model of terminator over and over, getting older and older.
They think people want to see him as the terminator, more than they want to see a good film. They are right to a degree, unfortunately.

Cameron was right to walk away from this whole thing. He said all that had to be said, he really did finish it with an underline and full stop with T2.

Thinking about it though, I'm not sure what else can be done story wise to take it forwards, other than rehash it.
We know what happens you see, we know there is a war, we know Conner becomes the leader and wins the war. How is that going to be interesting to see, ooh just seeing it played out and depicted, nah boring. As evidenced by how dull story wise Salvation was.

There is no tension at all in watching Salvation, any time there is any kind of action or supposed danger, it evaporates because you know Conner will live, you know he will win the war and send his father back to save his mother from the terminator. If he doesn't we wouldn't be watching what we're watching.

The only way it works is if you keep having terminators being sent back in time to stop the future. That's the story, that's the appeal, its a time travel scifi action adventure thriller. There is suspense if we don't know whats going to happen, if they are changing the future. That's why T2 works.
If they wanted to be bold, to make it work, they would kill Sarah Conner in the first 10 minutes. Then we don't know what the fuck is going on, how did it all play out, how are we still here with terminators in the past if Skynet managed to kill her. And for the love of god ditch the big lump and get a new terminator.

[Red Beret]

Well certainly the biggest mistake in T4 was no time travel.

Always thought it would be funny if Sarah Connor shagged a Terminator and that was how John Connor came about...

[Mouth]

Imagine if this motherfucker was the terminator



Have him kill the 101 as well, bye bye gone for good.

[Red Beret]

I think the biggest let down in the later T films is that lack of epic-ness you get from the first two.  Even in the first, which had a paltry budget, you get the sense of that huge enveloping story around the main characters.  It's the ultimate example of show-don't-tell.

[CHOPPER]

Shitenet

[Macphisto80]

The only reason to keep rehashing the original is in order to have the big lump in it. Otherwise story wise it makes no sense to have the same model of terminator over and over, getting older and older.
They think people want to see him as the terminator, more than they want to see a good film. They are right to a degree, unfortunately.

Cameron was right to walk away from this whole thing. He said all that had to be said, he really did finish it with an underline and full stop with T2.

Thinking about it though, I'm not sure what else can be done story wise to take it forwards, other than rehash it.
We know what happens you see, we know there is a war, we know Conner becomes the leader and wins the war. How is that going to be interesting to see, ooh just seeing it played out and depicted, nah boring. As evidenced by how dull story wise Salvation was.

There is no tension at all in watching Salvation, any time there is any kind of action or supposed danger, it evaporates because you know Conner will live, you know he will win the war and send his father back to save his mother from the terminator. If he doesn't we wouldn't be watching what we're watching.

The only way it works is if you keep having terminators being sent back in time to stop the future. That's the story, that's the appeal, its a time travel scifi action adventure thriller. There is suspense if we don't know whats going to happen, if they are changing the future. That's why T2 works.
If they wanted to be bold, to make it work, they would kill Sarah Conner in the first 10 minutes. Then we don't know what the fuck is going on, how did it all play out, how are we still here with terminators in the past if Skynet managed to kill her. And for the love of god ditch the big lump and get a new terminator.

Exactly, which is why having a film showing the war on a global scale with different factions doing different things (like in WW2) would have worked. You build new characters, and keep John Connor as a mythical background character that only the other characters talk about. You don't get to see him. Ever. It works, because you get to know these new characters, yet you don't know if they'll survive or not.

[Mouth]

Exactly, which is why having a film showing the war on a global scale with different factions doing different things (like in WW2) would have worked. You build new characters, and keep John Connor as a mythical background character that only the other characters talk about. You don't get to see him. Ever. It works, because you get to know these new characters, yet you don't know if they'll survive or not.

That might work. Tell the story of how they survived, fought back and got to the point when Conner shows up.
Any character would be fair game. In fact, best idea would be to build up a massive hero, maybe even make it possible that it might be Conner, then kill him.

Or slightly shift it, so that Conner isn't exactly the big hero, that he is more of a myth. I mean the whole idea of the one, the leader, is a bit far fetched and mythical. So, give him a kind of King Arthur treatment. That no one ever really knows who he is.
Or like he isn't the the proper leader, more of a figurehead. Have him do a Dread Pirate Roberts act, there is no John Conner, every time he dies, someone else steps up and takes the name, so Skynet can never actually go back and kill the right one.

[Macphisto80]

That might work. Tell the story of how they survived, fought back and got to the point when Conner shows up.
Any character would be fair game. In fact, best idea would be to build up a massive hero, maybe even make it possible that it might be Conner, then kill him.

Or slightly shift it, so that Conner isn't exactly the big hero, that he is more of a myth. I mean the whole idea of the one, the leader, is a bit far fetched and mythical. So, give him a kind of King Arthur treatment. That no one ever really knows who he is.
Or like he isn't the the proper leader, more of a figurehead. Have him do a Dread Pirate Roberts act, there is no John Conner, every time he dies, someone else steps up and takes the name, so Skynet can never actually go back and kill the right one.

Yep, that sounds good, and you can build and work with those ideas. See, five minutes of thinking about it, and we've already came up with a better idea than the twats who get paid stupid money to come up with total shite.

[Samie]

Not a chance this spawns a new trilogy.

They've already put a date on them for 2017 and 2018. Filming back to back.

[Brian Blessed]

That new trailer. Fuckin hell, reveal it all. And it's terrible. They lose more viewers than they'll gain with this trailer.

[Red Beret]

That new trailer. Fuckin hell, reveal it all. And it's terrible. They lose more viewers than they'll gain with this trailer.

It looks like it will have its moments but really I gave up on Terminator after the third film (which wasn't bad, as long as you didn't compare it to the previous films).

It doesn't help that John Connor has been played by five different actors, and Jason Clarke just doesn't suit the role for me.  Plus those facial scars look ridiculous.

[tubby]

So wait, John Connor is a terminator now?  Or is that some other terminator pretending to be him?  Wtf is going on?


I'm gonna watch the shit out of this regardless, just to see how much of a clusterfuck it really is.

[my usenme changed?]

So wait, John Connor is a terminator now?  Or is that some other terminator pretending to be him?  Wtf is going on?


I'm gonna watch the shit out of this regardless, just to see how much of a clusterfuck it really is.

This.

[Chakan]

What was Terminator 4?

[Red Beret]

I'm gonna watch the shit out of this regardless, just to see how much of a clusterfuck it really is.

So will I, but I wont be paying for it.

[Red Beret]

What was Terminator 4?

That was the one with Christian Bale as John Connor.  Would actually have been nice to see him in this film playing a bad guy, but there you go...

[Chakan]

That was the one with Christian Bale as John Connor.  Would actually have been nice to see him in this film playing a bad guy, but there you go...

Wow missed that one completely. Might been a weekend option.

[Brian Blessed]

You have better things to do, trust me...

[Red Beret]

Wow missed that one completely. Might been a weekend option.

I'll save you the trouble.  This is the best bit in the whole film - and I've not even watched it.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2XLu_NTu4aY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2XLu_NTu4aY</a>

[lionel_messias]

I'll save you the trouble.  This is the best bit in the whole film - and I've not even watched it.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2XLu_NTu4aY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2XLu_NTu4aY</a>

You see the ultimate killing machine there? So let's throw the guy across the room instead of breaking his neck?

The T-800 would be disappointed with that, as Phil Neville would point out.

[Macphisto80]

You see the ultimate killing machine there? So let's throw the guy across the room instead of breaking his neck?

The T-800 would be disappointed with that, as Phil Neville would point out.

Yeah, the first thing he does when greeting a punk in T1 is punch a hole right through his chest and out his back. In T4 he walks out, the audience goes "ohhh" and "ahhh, it's young Arnie, how the fu..." and then proceeds to want to play John Connor by tickling his ribs against the scenery, his number one target to kill. Then again, the film was directed by someone who calls himself "McG".

[Red Beret]

And like I said - it's the best bit of the film. 

[lionel_messias]

Yeah, the first thing he does when greeting a punk in T1 is punch a hole right through his chest and out his back. In T4 he walks out, the audience goes "ohhh" and "ahhh, it's young Arnie, how the fu..." and then proceeds to want to play John Connor by tickling his ribs against the scenery, his number one target to kill. Then again, the film was directed by someone who calls himself "McG".

McG is the poor man's Michael Bay. When he grows up he wants to be Zack Snyder.

[Haemoglobin]

McG is the poor man's Michael Bay. When he grows up he wants to be Zack Snyder.

Nah, once he's achieved as much mediocrity as possible, he smply goes to a quiet corner somewhere and dies. Then he regenerates into a new lifeform, McH. That's when we need to start worrying; who knows what McH will be capable of.

[Red Beret]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/nxr2SV5znwI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/nxr2SV5znwI</a>

Bit of a giggle.