Author Topic: Why we should keep Lucas?  (Read 266933 times)

Online keano7

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #680 on: January 6, 2011, 02:50:38 am »
Lucas has been the only major salvation player under Hodgson. Week in week out the boy has been very good in the middle, keeping the ball well and his passing has greatly improved. Needs to work on his forward play quite a bit though as he never looks likely to score a goal when he has the ball 25 yards from goal. Hats off to him.
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Offline DeclanYNWA

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #681 on: January 6, 2011, 02:51:39 am »
He was shite today.  My ass could've seen that.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #682 on: January 6, 2011, 02:54:15 am »
He was shite today.  My ass could've seen that.
But it was on talking duty instead?

Offline mini4me

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #683 on: January 6, 2011, 02:55:34 am »
Lucas did well to try and hold the ball. But under Roy holding the ball isn't important.
It's all about getting it forward as quickly as possible.

Also I notice that Roy pushed centre mids a bit forward and moved full backs to cover them.... Disgraceful tactics.
« Last Edit: January 6, 2011, 02:57:44 am by mini4me »

Offline mini4me

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #684 on: January 6, 2011, 02:56:53 am »
Lucas has been the only major salvation player under Hodgson. Week in week out the boy has been very good in the middle, keeping the ball well and his passing has greatly improved. Needs to work on his forward play quite a bit though as he never looks likely to score a goal when he has the ball 25 yards from goal. Hats off to him.

The only thing he needs to do is learn how to shoot. He can now pass properly and hold the ball. He also knows how to press to win the ball back.

Offline DaveCharlie

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #685 on: January 6, 2011, 02:57:17 am »
Not sure why I'm banging my head against this brick wall again, but here are some stats for our 2 CMs vs Blackburn - I'm not providing any opinion, just the stats - interpret as you wish:

Passing
Lucas, 89 attempted passes.  75 successful.  84.3% success rate.
Gerrard, 69 attempted passes.  46 successful. 66.7% success rate.

Tackling
Lucas, 9 attempted tackles, 5 won.
Gerrard, 2 attempted tackles, 1 won.

Offline Buzz Killington

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #686 on: January 6, 2011, 02:57:30 am »
But it was on talking duty instead?
Brilliant response mate, made me chuckle.  :lmao :wellin :wellin

Offline Mad Men

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #687 on: January 6, 2011, 06:25:45 am »
Lads,

Some things to remember.

1) Tactics were god awful YET AGAIN.
2) Players play to instructions given by the manager. If the manager can see Lucas is exposed, its his responsibility to correct the problem.
3) Manager is responsible for training both offensive/defensive duties, tactics, and game play. Thats what training sessions are for. If the players don't get it, its his job to make sure they understand AND GET IT.
4) Manager prefers to blame everyone and everything else but himself and to be a MAN and to take responsibility.

Enough said.

Lucas was boss last night but was exposed like fuck with Gerrard bombing forward. Too many casual marking and mistakes that allowed BB to score three unneccessary goals. Torres and Ngog partnership failed.

Lets be honest, this match COULD have finished 3-3 OR we could have even won this 4-3. We left it too late and even when we got the penalty, you felt anything was possible. Time ran out.

We took too long to get into 4th gear and by then, it was all over.



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Offline The Manhattan Project

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #688 on: January 6, 2011, 06:31:27 am »
I'd prefer Bastian Schweinsteiger, but I guess we have to make do with what we've got.
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Online Adeemo

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #689 on: January 6, 2011, 06:36:22 am »
He was shite today.  My ass could've seen that.

Do some people actually watch the match, 'cos I can't for the life of me understand how you could believe that. Unless that is that you know next to nothing about football and how a midfield functions.
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #690 on: January 6, 2011, 08:12:02 am »
He was shite today.  My ass could've seen that.

Did you actually watch the match or you're just making an assumption?
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #691 on: January 6, 2011, 08:15:47 am »
Not sure why I'm banging my head against this brick wall again, but here are some stats for our 2 CMs vs Blackburn - I'm not providing any opinion, just the stats - interpret as you wish:

Passing
Lucas, 89 attempted passes.  75 successful.  84.3% success rate.
Gerrard, 69 attempted passes.  46 successful. 66.7% success rate.

Tackling
Lucas, 9 attempted tackles, 5 won.
Gerrard, 2 attempted tackles, 1 won.
Thing is, no one played well; the team was awful so looking at stats like this is a bit pointless.
Lucas will never be a great player, but he always tries damned hard, so fair dos to him
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Offline ARI

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #692 on: January 6, 2011, 09:13:17 am »
Given that my favourite ever player is Cruyff, I am not a fan of how Stevie plays the game. Since he first started I could never get my head around how clueless he can be as a player. He has great physical gifts and the only reason I feel he has become the player he has become today is due to the kind of coaching he received early on in the Academy. He is an instinctive player who plays the game with his heart on his sleeve and relies mainly on his strength, technique and stamina to get by in a game but lacks the positioning, composure and tactical insight required to play as the brains of the team. Even Wigan's Roberto Martinez has spoken about how difficult it is to accomodate Stevie in midfield. And we all know what Sacchi thinks of Gerrard.

Stevie was probably taught to play the game a certain way, and has never managed to reinvent himself, or never encouraged to, until Rafa came along. That the Academy has failed to produce quality, thinking, tactically astute, intelligent players is for me a damning indictment of how far we have fallen behind since our halcyon days, which could be prolonged with Roy in charge,  for a club that was known to play the game in a style " more European than the Europeans", to quote Platini back in the 80's.  I truly believe that had he been coached differently from young, with emphasis on tactics and positioning he would be a completely different player and far more fearsome.

When asked what differentiated him and his peers when playing in midfield, Cruyff said that all of them had the technique, knew the tactics and had the stamina but none of them had his tactical mind which he defined as daring, trust and insight; the knowing of what to do, when to do it and being able to see things before they happen. That's why he always drummed on about how football was always played with the brain. Cruyff was adamant that the most difficult pass to make in a game was the 10-20 meter pass, which he described as the easiest thing to do but the most difficult to implement.
 
Maybe Stevie still sees himself as a box to box midfielder when in the modern game such a player is no longer required and the position made obsolete by the advent of specialists.  His foraging runs can be extremely frustrating within a certain tactical game plan, , which is probably why we hardly see him there in big games . Such deficiencies are far less glaring against lesser oppositions.

But when used upfront, his tactical and positional shortcomings are less damaging to the team. His impressive physical prowess is harnessed to the maximum by Rafa's high pressing game and none more so evident than when the opposition wants to build from the back. They'd first have to cope with Torres's speed, Stevie's relentlessnes before they even face our midfielders, which allows Torres to get the ball higher up the pitch from shorter passes. And that is what it is all about, maximising the strengths of every player in a team to make the sum greater than its parts. Which brings me to Lucas

At 23, he is a far more intelligent player than Stevie was at the same age. His strengths are his understanding of the game, positional sense and awareness which suggest that he has been brought up to play the game the right way, typical of Brazilian midfielders. My Liverpool mad nephews who could see nothing good in Lucas earlier are now singing his praises. I told them that if they want to learn about the game watch Lucas. Whilst Stevie's strength are visceral and obvious, Lucas' are the intangibles.

For me he is the modern day water carrier with a few more tricks up his sleeves, such is his improvement since he joined us. Not bad considering the former, more limited water carriers like Dunga and Deschamps had captained their teams to World Cup glories with their metronomic displays and have also gone on to become excellent coaches too. Although Lucas is no Stevie physically, he makes up for it with his footballing brain and it's no surprise that he has struck a good understanding with Meireles, another footballer's footballer.

It's amazing how critics can cream at the sight of Barca playing their tiki-taka game and not understand what Lucas brings to the table. His calmness under pressure is exemplary and always keeps the team ticking. Even more impressive is his mental fortitude in dealing with adversities, heck even when dealing with pricks on Tweeter. He appears to be the consummate team player who is willing to put his ego aside for the good of the team and that can only be good for him, Liverpool and Brazil. Sir Bob once said that it's not about the long pass or the short pass but the right pass. He must have had someone like Lucas in mind.

It takes all sorts to make a team. A team is never about the best players but the right players. I may not be a fan of Stevie's but I do appreciate his qualities (one of the deadliest clutch players in the game) just as I admire Lucas' footballing brain but rue his snail-like pace. Rafa always talked about balance and that's what we had under him - a balanced team. As clutch a player as Stevie is without the right team balance he would be nothing and neither would the team. Unfortunately, we now have a situation where one player is allowed to revel in his favourite position which he hardly excels in to the detriment of the team. If under Rafa it 's all about the balance, under Roy it's just bollocks

Offline MaschHead

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #693 on: January 6, 2011, 09:24:35 am »
Nice post Ari :)

Offline liverpooll

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #694 on: January 6, 2011, 09:25:29 am »
I am very amazed by the love of any Lucas performances. People suddenly talk about discipline and at the same time criticize players like Kuyt who is a role model for any player looking to be discipline and decent all areas.  These stats, the successful passes does not tell us much( Poulson even had that, wonder if people will praise him using the same Lucas logic).

The simple fact is Lucas offers nothing much to the team and is easily replaceable. And the worst part is when people start comparing him with Gerrard, and think he is more valuable to Liverpool. Thats a big joke, if anything Gerrard has already saved us many times already this season, wonder if Lucas has done anything this season or ever in his time at Liverpool.

Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #695 on: January 6, 2011, 09:29:46 am »
the worst part is when people start comparing him with Gerrard, and think he is more valuable to Liverpool.

The worst part is when people make up things that haven't actually happened to try and make a point.

No-one's saying he's better than Gerrard. No-one's saying he's more valuable to Liverpool. Anyone who is saying that is an idiot.

What people are saying is that Lucas is a good player and that a partnership between him and Gerrard isn't the best way to play them, especially away from home.

If people could understand the difference between criticising how a player is played and the player himself then debates about players on RAWK would be much more bearable. Why on earth people have to flock to defend Gerrard when no-one's attacking him is beyond me.
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Offline MaschHead

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #696 on: January 6, 2011, 09:35:08 am »
The worst part is when people make up things that haven't actually happened to try and make a point.

No-one's saying he's better than Gerrard. No-one's saying he's more valuable to Liverpool. Anyone who is saying that is an idiot.

What people are saying is that Lucas is a good player and that a partnership between him and Gerrard isn't the best way to play them, especially away from home.

If people could understand the difference between criticising how a player is played and the player himself then debates about players on RAWK would be much more bearable. Why on earth people have to flock to defend Gerrard when no-one's attacking him is beyond me.


It's not just football, people in general can't discuss about anything. The moment they feel attacked , it's ends in yelling, screaming and insulting. I miss the days where you could just sit in a pub or where ever discuss about football with random people and have a decent conversation.

Offline liverpooll

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #697 on: January 6, 2011, 09:37:22 am »
The worst part is when people make up things that haven't actually happened to try and make a point.

No-one's saying he's better than Gerrard. No-one's saying he's more valuable to Liverpool. Anyone who is saying that is an idiot.

What people are saying is that Lucas is a good player and that a partnership between him and Gerrard isn't the best way to play them, especially away from home.

If people could understand the difference between criticizing how a player is played and the player himself then debates about players on RAWK would be much more bearable. Why on earth people have to flock to defend Gerrard when no-one's attacking him is beyond me.

Maybe valuable is the wrong word, but the direction is right. After every match, there are tons of users who will post along the lines " if only Gerrard had Lucas  discipline...."  and that what is troubling to me. Similarly, the your last line could be used why on earth people have to defend Lucas after every match when no one attacking him.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #698 on: January 6, 2011, 09:52:26 am »
I am very amazed by the love of any Lucas performances. People suddenly talk about discipline and at the same time criticize players like Kuyt who is a role model for any player looking to be discipline and decent all areas.  These stats, the successful passes does not tell us much( Poulson even had that, wonder if people will praise him using the same Lucas logic).

The simple fact is Lucas offers nothing much to the team and is easily replaceable. And the worst part is when people start comparing him with Gerrard, and think he is more valuable to Liverpool. Thats a big joke, if anything Gerrard has already saved us many times already this season, wonder if Lucas has done anything this season or ever in his time at Liverpool.

You're right that stats aren't telling the whole story. However, they certainly are some kind of indicator on how involved someone was in the game and what he did when he had possession. Lucas had 89 passes (75 successful) and even though some will say that they were all backwards and sideways (which is complete bollocks BTW), it shows he saw quite a lot of the ball and did something useful with it (even if that was only keeping possession).

You're saying he's not offering much to the team. I say he's doing exactly what the team needs, i.e. keeping possession and if possible keeping the ball moving forward. Not many of his passes will open up defences, but just take your time and watch him closely when we're attacking. He keeps the ball moving without giving it away most of the time and the team/attackers as a whole can move into better positions. The thing about keeping possession is even more important at the moment, when our defenders can't defend to save their lives. All three goals yesterday were a result of bad defending. Defenders not doing their jobs. In those circumstances, it is vital to keep possession even if you don't score yourself. Especially, when you forwards can't make a single ball stick up there...

To me that's the huge difference between Gerrard and Lucas. One is a great individual player and the other is a great team player. They're both very useful, but I don't think Gerrard is useful in the position he's playing now. He needs to get further up the pitch. That's why he was so good when he had that supporting role just off Nando. He's more of an individual footballer, which doesn't mean he's not a team-player (if he wants to). He'll do a job for the team, but deep down he's still that boy in the park taking the ball from the goalkeeper running forward and blasting it into the top corner to score. I'm not saying it's a bad thing as it has clearly saved our arses countless times.

However, I'm saying that I don't want to see this kind of player in a two-man central midfield. With Gerrard in there it's basically give the ball to him, he'll take it forward and he'll be looking for that single stroke of genius to produce a goal. When Raul and Lucas are playing together they're simply taking the ball forward together by interchanging passes and keeping the ball moving while moving themselves (and giving the other players an opportunity to get forward or into better positions).
« Last Edit: January 6, 2011, 09:57:21 am by stoa »

Offline Mad Men

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #699 on: January 6, 2011, 09:56:24 am »
A player like Lucas would fit comfortably into a Barcelona starting 11. He has an intelligent brain and is a good player who will get better with more games under his belt and more experince. He isn't a swashbuckling type of player in the mould of a Gerrard or a Messi or Kaka but he is the work horse of the midfield.

NOT as a defensive midfielder.
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Offline scared_person

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #700 on: January 6, 2011, 10:06:26 am »
I'm a big fan of Lucas as my posting history will testify but last night was far from his best game. He's toughened up a lot over the last 12 months but he lost a few of the physical challenges he probably should have won.

Having said that what chance does he have within the tactical framework Roy has failed to create. Stevie is played in the middle but is seemingly given no instructions whatsoever. When skysports talk about letting them off the leash, this is what they meant.

Has anyone mentioned Lucas' lovely chipped through ball in the first half for Torres? Nando tried to take it stood still but if he'd run onto it he would have been through.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #701 on: January 6, 2011, 10:10:20 am »
I am just glad that I no longer frequent that other Liverpool fan forum I used to (TIA). I cannot stand the anti-Lucas bias of some of their mods/admins and veteran posters.

To claim that Lucas had a bad game today, to me, is an exercise in fiction-writing. He never stopped working, had a very good number of positive, forward passes, should have an assist when Cole missed from a great position.

Gerrard went on walkabout often, a couple of times to good effect but otherwise left gaping holes for poor Lucas to have to plug.
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #702 on: January 6, 2011, 10:11:44 am »
We should keep Lucas.

End of.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #703 on: January 6, 2011, 10:18:26 am »
Similarly, the your last line could be used why on earth people have to defend Lucas after every match when no one attacking him.
Haha! You did so yourself, minutes ago.

Offline Ycuzz

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #704 on: January 6, 2011, 10:57:32 am »
But it was on talking duty instead?

Fuck me, brilliant!
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #705 on: January 6, 2011, 02:11:56 pm »
It's funny how the post by liverpooll above where he says Lucas offers nothing to the 'team', totallly contradicts his theory that Gerrard does. It's long been known that fans of other clubs call Steven Gerrard - Steven Gerrard M.B.E.. Due to his all action, individualistic style of football.

The reason the England football team have failed over the last decade? Not just Stevie but the whole collection of individuals, that have all insisted on being the main men in their sides and carrying teams by themselves rather than being part of 'teams'.
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Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #706 on: January 6, 2011, 02:15:01 pm »
I find it ridiculous when fans criticise Gerrard.

We wouldn't have five European Cups in the cabinet if it weren't for him, we'd still have four.

Nor would we have the 2006 FA Cup either.

Rafa would've won nothing without Stevie.

Lucas, on the other hand...
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Offline macmanaman

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #707 on: January 6, 2011, 02:21:43 pm »
I find it ridiculous when fans criticise Gerrard.

We wouldn't have five European Cups in the cabinet if it weren't for him, we'd still have four.

Nor would we have the 2006 FA Cup either.

Rafa would've won nothing without Stevie.

Lucas, on the other hand...
If you don't intend to read people's post then just shut up, shut up.
NOBODY is criticizing Stevie, he is the most important player in our team BUT not as a CM, put him in that position then he will become a problem for us not advantage.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #708 on: January 6, 2011, 02:33:46 pm »
I find it ridiculous when fans criticise Gerrard.

We wouldn't have five European Cups in the cabinet if it weren't for him, we'd still have four.

Nor would we have the 2006 FA Cup either.

Rafa would've won nothing without Stevie.

Lucas, on the other hand...

Have to agree Rafa would never of won promotion with Extremedura and Tenereife, two La Liga's and a UEFA Cup with Valencia and a Italian Super Cup and World Club Championship with Inter without Gerrard.

As for Lucas he only starts for Brazil ahead of the 2000+ professional Brazilian footballers because Gerrard isn't Brazilian.
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Offline scatman

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #709 on: January 6, 2011, 02:49:58 pm »
I find it ridiculous when fans criticise Gerrard.

We wouldn't have five European Cups in the cabinet if it weren't for him, we'd still have four.

Nor would we have the 2006 FA Cup either.

Rafa would've won nothing without Stevie.

Lucas, on the other hand...

of course he is above criticism, he is a God, he is Liverpool FC, fuck the rest of the team, the board, the owners, the coaches. Steven Gerrard chooses the managers, he decides whether we should have a new stadium, he decides what formation we play. So I assume if we get relegated, we can say we couldnt have done that without Steven Gerrard?
We would not have hired Roy Hodgson without Steven Gerrard?
We would never have finished 7th if it werent for Steven Gerrard?
Reason we only finished 2nd in 2008-2009 is because of Steven Gerrard?
Reason Parry and Moores chose the G+H over DIC is because of Steven Gerrard?
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Offline FOWgamR

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #710 on: January 6, 2011, 02:56:02 pm »
A player like Lucas would fit comfortably into a Barcelona starting 11.

He's come on leaps and bounds and has become a useful squad player but no, just no.

Offline MassDriver

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #711 on: January 6, 2011, 02:57:52 pm »
The only way Gerrard should be playing in Central Midfield is as a part of a trio. He is a supremely gifted attacking player who can win games but a central midfielder he is not , especially so in the modern game where positional discipline and clearly defined roles are critical to the functioning of a team.

Every time we've played Gerrard in there , we have had terrible possession stats and Lucas is made to look bad by virtue of Gerrard's chronic inability to understand what that position is all about. A 2 man midfield places huge emphasis on the partnership , not on the individuals. That is why Gerrard needs to play on the right or behind Torres to maximise his attacking contributions while negating the impact of his lack of positional sense.

We need to look at a solution other than a 2 man central midfield if we want to accommodate Gerrard in there without making us seriously vulnerable. The natural solution is a modern 3 man central midfield favoured by many teams throughout Europe. Gerrard can float all he wants and create all sorts of problems for the opposition while Lucas and Raul can secure the midfield and distribute play. The new manager , whenever he comes in , should seriously consider playing a trio in central midfield after immediately doing away with the 4-4-2 , a formation we are ill equipped for personnel wise.
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Offline sattapaartridge

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #712 on: January 6, 2011, 02:58:08 pm »
top man, thought he tried his best to cover gerrard in the 2nd half. dont know what the commentator was on about, lucas was boss.
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Offline deadlybuzz

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #713 on: January 6, 2011, 02:58:39 pm »
I find it ridiculous when fans criticise Gerrard.

We wouldn't have five European Cups in the cabinet if it weren't for him, we'd still have four.

Nor would we have the 2006 FA Cup either.

Rafa would've won nothing without Stevie.

Lucas, on the other hand...

You can say these sort of things about any prestigious manager and/or his players and switch the names around. It never works well as an argument to disregard another's achievements, only makes it look like you're putting a person on a pedestal to avoid a debate altogether.

Quote
I find it ridiculous when fans criticise Gerrard Rafa.

We wouldn't have five European Cups in the cabinet if it weren't for him, we'd still have four.

Nor would we have the 2006 FA Cup either.

Rafa Stevie would've won nothing without Stevie Rafa.

Lucas Roy, on the other hand...
« Last Edit: January 6, 2011, 03:00:13 pm by deadlybuzz »
Ahh, pressing refresh and waiting for news... just like the bad old days.

Liverpool porn, this.

anyone who's negative can fuck off

Offline Mad Men

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #714 on: January 6, 2011, 03:16:27 pm »
I am just glad that I no longer frequent that other Liverpool fan forum I used to (TIA). I cannot stand the anti-Lucas bias of some of their mods/admins and veteran posters.

To claim that Lucas had a bad game today, to me, is an exercise in fiction-writing. He never stopped working, had a very good number of positive, forward passes, should have an assist when Cole missed from a great position.




Gerrard went on walkabout often, a couple of times to good effect but otherwise left gaping holes for poor Lucas to have to plug.

TIA has a VERY bad reputation as far as their mods and owners are concerned. A bunch of Irish kids bullying OOT's and non locals and running the site as though it their own. There is a global boycott of their forums and an existing campaign on racial abuse from that site.

Plus, it's full of muppets.
« Last Edit: January 6, 2011, 03:20:49 pm by Mad Men »
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Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #715 on: January 6, 2011, 03:19:03 pm »
Have to agree Rafa would never of won promotion with Extremedura and Tenereife, two La Liga's and a UEFA Cup with Valencia and a Italian Super Cup and World Club Championship with Inter without Gerrard.

As for Lucas he only starts for Brazil ahead of the 2000+ professional Brazilian footballers because Gerrard isn't Brazilian.

I'm sure you know full well that I was talking about Rafa's two trophies with us and nothing else.

I like Rafa and would have preferred he weren't booted...but didn't he do well with the treble winning Inter side he inherited.
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Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #716 on: January 6, 2011, 03:20:08 pm »
The only way Gerrard should be playing in Central Midfield is as a part of a trio.

This.

4-2-3-1

Gerrard in the middle of the three, behind Torres with Lucas and Meireles behind him.

That is how we should be setup.

4-4-2 is bollocks for this squad.
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #717 on: January 6, 2011, 03:20:47 pm »
When teams crumble, as Liverpool did last night, it's not uncommon for an 'every man for himself' attitude to kick in. The manager is a busted flush and everyone knows it. He may be standing outside the dugout, like Hodgson was, but he is no longer shouting instructions, or even giving advice. And anyway, if he does, nobody listens to it. It's actually impossible to hear because it's coming from a ghost. What little coherence there is in a losing team disappears completely when the players know a regime is about to fall and that the game is about much more than the loss of 3 points.

Lucas needs to latch on to this. Last night he was one of the few Liverpool players sticking to the script. He held position, he supported his teammates, he swept up when the defence was beaten. It was valiant, it was selfless and it was brave. But all around him, especially after the third went in, his teammates were playing as if we no longer had a manager and as if they had no other responsibilities except to themselves. The result, ironically, was some of the most expressive football this season. Those who are no good - we know who they are - disappeared completely. But Gerrard, Agger, Torres, and even Cole actually showed aptitude. There was precious little teamwork and no plan, but at least they were momentarily liberated from Hodgson's idea of teamwork and Hodgson's plan. Gerrard, especially (and unsurprisingly) thrived. He's never much liked working to a plan anyway.

I was dying for our best player this season - Lucas, obviously - to join in, or rather opt out. I wanted him to acquire a bit of 'every man for himself' and to start attacking recklessly and taking absurd risks. "Forget the pass to Kuyt, son. It's only gonna come back to you and put you in a worse place than you were before". "Leave Skrtel to it. If he can't stop his man, so what? Let him do his own defending. Who cares if they get a 4th". "Take your man on, dribble a bit, don't support the dead beat on the ball, get into the box and grab a bit of personal glory". "Fuck the team!".

Instead of which Lucas kept doing his problem-solving, fire-fighting thing. And because he's as fit as a butcher's dog he did it well. But come on Lucas lad. Save yourself! That's what the other lot are doing.

Postscript. I watched a stream of the game with a man commentating who'd never seen a football match before. It was like watching an Ancient Egyptian explaining the United States' Space Programme. 

 
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Offline davidg

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #718 on: January 6, 2011, 03:28:25 pm »
When teams crumble, as Liverpool did last night, it's not uncommon for an 'every man for himself' attitude to kick in. The manager is a busted flush and everyone knows it. He may be standing outside the dugout, like Hodgson was, but he is no longer shouting instructions, or even giving advice. And anyway, if he does, nobody listens to it. It's actually impossible to hear because it's coming from a ghost. What little coherence there is in a losing team disappears completely when the players know a regime is about to fall and that the game is about much more than the loss of 3 points.

Lucas needs to latch on to this. Last night he was one of the few Liverpool players sticking to the script. He held position, he supported his teammates, he swept up when the defence was beaten. It was valiant, it was selfless and it was brave. But all around him, especially after the third went in, his teammates were playing as if we no longer had a manager and as if they had no other responsibilities except to themselves. The result, ironically, was some of the most expressive football this season. Those who are no good - we know who they are - disappeared completely. But Gerrard, Agger, Torres, and even Cole actually showed aptitude. There was precious little teamwork and no plan, but at least they were momentarily liberated from Hodgson's idea of teamwork and Hodgson's plan. Gerrard, especially (and unsurprisingly) thrived. He's never much liked working to a plan anyway.

I was dying for our best player this season - Lucas, obviously - to join in, or rather opt out. I wanted him to acquire a bit of 'every man for himself' and to start attacking recklessly and taking absurd risks. "Forget the pass to Kuyt, son. It's only gonna come back to you and put you in a worse place than you were before". "Leave Skrtel to it. If he can't stop his man, so what? Let him do his own defending. Who cares if they get a 4th". "Take your man on, dribble a bit, don't support the dead beat on the ball, get into the box and grab a bit of personal glory". "Fuck the team!".

Instead of which Lucas kept doing his problem-solving, fire-fighting thing. And because he's as fit as a butcher's dog he did it well. But come on Lucas lad. Save yourself! That's what the other lot are doing.

Postscript. I watched a stream of the game with a man commentating who'd never seen a football match before. It was like watching an Ancient Egyptian explaining the United States' Space Programme. 

 

this, plus, he was the only player who actually looked upset/angry/embarrassed with what was going on around him.
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Offline tea_tree

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #719 on: January 6, 2011, 03:38:58 pm »
I find it ridiculous when fans criticise Gerrard.

We wouldn't have five European Cups in the cabinet if it weren't for him, we'd still have four.

Nor would we have the 2006 FA Cup either.

Rafa would've won nothing without Stevie.

Lucas, on the other hand...

What a silly post. Gerrard won those trophies on his own did he? ::) The stupidity our fans show sometimes is appalling
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