Author Topic: Leave Thommo alone!!  (Read 1878 times)

Offline Steve C

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Leave Thommo alone!!
« on: January 10, 2002, 03:24:33 pm »
Okay so results have had a downturn, but lets keep some perspective here.

Take Fergie from Mancs for 6 months in the middle of the season...who would they have in charge? Has he even got an assistant after Kidd and McLaren left?

Take OLeary from Leeds for 6 months in the middle of the season...who would they have in charge? Brian Kidd, thats who. He was one shit manager.

Take Wenger from Arsenal for 6 months in the middle of the season...who would they have in charge? Pat Rice? Bob fuckin Wilson?

Do you see my point here?

All Im saying is overall Thommo has done a decent job, I would bet better than any of the above would for their clubs.

We are in the next stage of the CL, after Thommo took us to hard places such as Kyiv and gained good results.

We arnt out of the league yet, and are certainly in line for a top 4 finish.

This is a man with no managerial experience to my knowledge, whose character is more suited to that of an assistant manager, whose mate was under threat of his life, but he had to get on with the job in hand.

Hes not exempt from criticism, but I think its slighlty simplistic to jump on his tactical naivety as soon as results take a turn for the worst.

ONE PHIL THOMPSON.....
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline MichaelA

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2002, 03:38:44 pm »
Steve, I don`t think that PT has had much venom directed at him on this site.
We all know what he has achieved during the extended absence of GH, and you are absolutely right to highlight his efforts over the past few months.
He has more or less admitted that he is uncomfortable with his current role; it would be unfair to unjustly criticise him when we know that his heart is in the right place.
However, there are serious tactical problems arising from the recent run of poor form, which not only do not seem to have been addressed, but have actually deteriorated.
I have not got any constructive answers to this; maybe the club should have drafted someone in on a six month contract to provide wise counsel; maybe they expected GH back sooner, who knows.
I do feel strongly that we have lacked something - vision, commitment, belief, motivation - call it what you like, and PT has been unable to provide that.
I hope that this is a blip (a long blip - bbbllliiippp) and that we can still win the Premiership, but last night did nothing to give me any encouragement.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline Steve C

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2002, 03:45:33 pm »
This site has gone a bit woolie/OOT overnight it seems, so i dread to think what the official site and Koptalk is like at the monent.

Thommo has been criticised on here, my main truck with him was why on earth Litmanen started last night.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline Barrettski

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2002, 03:49:23 pm »
Agreed Steve... definitely, you'd have to go all the way to, ooo say, offal to find anyone badly criticising Thommo and what he's done. But Michael has a fair point too and I wonder just how much liaison between Thommo and Ged there is. I can't see a fully fit Ged sending us out against Southampton with the same tactics. It sounds like media bandwagon speak, I didn't want to say it in my long post/article BUT if Bolton, Fulham and Blackburn (even Derby) can stifle us then we have been found out.

We have to reach the next level and fast... and it's going to take players with confidence to get there... to change tactics throughout a game, to do the simple things well enough to try the new stuff...

I think we can do it though... although it might not be soon enough for this season.
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Offline ttnbd

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2002, 03:52:04 pm »
You don't wanna know what the official site is like Steve. It was like a mad house when I logged on there this morning. People left, right and center calling for Phil's, any of the players and EVEN Ged to be sacked.

But I have tried my best to calm them down.  Asking every1 to sing YNWA 50, or 60, times and realising that the team need us to back them now more than ever to help them get out of this lull. (although one poster said singing YNWA 50 or 60 times would seriously question his sanity, obviously he doesn't realise that there are people who will have sung it hundreds of times)

Anyway time to get back to reality and possibly get some work done.  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »
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Offline MichaelA

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2002, 03:53:19 pm »
Steve, offal was as grim as you might expect last night...
I think that it was the way we capitulated last night that has brought out the Mr Hyde in my posts, and I suspect a lot of others feel the same.
We were outfought by a team we should be thoroughly stuffing, despite their renaissance under Strachan.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline Ron

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2002, 04:15:39 pm »
People are well pissed off and are looking for someone to blame. It's just the way it goes. I meself think we have a good squad and should play a bit more like a big team, going forward and attack ! Shout it out, West Ham?, Chelsea?, Leeds?, Sunderland?, Southampton?, who the fuck are you ? Were LIVERPOOL and were here to kick yr fucking ass ! Three points, thank y very much !  Its time to bring back some of the arrogance of the '80s, stop playing from a defensive point of view, it worked last season but it doesn't work now ! I don't think Phil is to blame, he's just the caretaker.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

hoonin

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2002, 06:06:55 pm »
Quote
This site has gone a bit woolie/OOT overnight it seems


Explain yourself?

As for your original post i agree. Whilst the buck usually stops at the top its a bit harsh to expect too much from Thommo. You can mitigate his performance by comparing the management teams of those clubs around us. As Steve said, how would they cope with the situation we are in. Its a hypothetical question, in reality they have not had to go through it. The result of this being they are all moving along nicely and picking up form as the season really kicks in.

Thommo has stepped in and done the best he can with the emphasis on continuity. Its obvious that he lacks the the tactical/motivational nous to prepare a team for individual opponents and also turn games round when required. These are two skills that Houllier has in abundance. Rather than inject his own ideas he's stuck rigidly to the GH text-book and had the mixed results the cautious approach deserves.

To be honest i'm glad he's done this rather than try to take things on himself and make a monumental mess of it. Its a tacit admission of his own weaknesses as a manager but it ensures Ged can pick up as close to where he left them before his illness. For Thommo to put himself in that sacrificial position deserves a little respect from us.

Hopefully this time at the helm will not leave him too shell-shocked. As an assistant to Houllier he has his merits and i'd hope he can return to those duties shortly, but theres one question in my mind....

How will the players respond to him??
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline Anthony

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2002, 03:00:31 am »
Although Weds night was depressing I am not placing the blame solely at Thommo's feet. One bright point that I picked up under the good spell pre-Christmas was that the Liverpool Machine seemed to be rolling along as if on Automatic Pilot. I think I said a couple of months ago that this was an illustration of the renaissance of the Boot Room with all the Back Room Staff being on a common wavelength.

But it seems to have been momentum in one direction and when it came to a halt, we haven't been able to restart it. That and the fact that teams have decided to counter the "counter-attacking game" by not attacking. My main disappointment has been that if Thommo didn't have the tactical nous to change the game is there not someone else at the club who can weigh in? Jacques Crevoisier perhaps? Are we missing Patrick Bergues?

One of the original questions raised on this thread were what would Arsenal, Man Utd, Leeds & Co have done in a similar situation. Well, I think the backroom staff would be so keyed to the Manager's thinking that they would be able to do something similar. The exception being Man Utd, who I think are going to regret the departure of Brian Kidd & Steve McClaren when Fergie does go.

One last note for those calling for an early recall of Le Boss - In the 7 league matches that GH took (including Leeds) we had a record of 13 points out of 21. In the next 7 under Thommo we took 19 out of 21 and in the 7 after that (4 of which were without Didi) we have taken 6 out of 21. Was that middle spell Momentum, the culmination of the system developed by GH or Thommo?


Overall, I am disappointed but still proud to be a Liverpool fan. The next month takes on far more significance than I wanted it to as we are back playing catch-up but if we can focus and *show the pride that has been hurt* then there is still time to get back on track before the Champions League restarts in February.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »
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Offline Fanxxxxtastic

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2002, 03:02:31 am »
There are some cracking posts on this thread and, like others have said under the circumstances Phil's done really well.  Some fans seem to have lost sight of the fact that we are trying to function with our assistant manager.  

After Ged was taken ill, and Phil took over, everything was fine and dandy when the results were going ok.  Everyone was prepared to pat him on the back, and say how well he was doing.  Now that we've suffered this dip in form, every man and his dog is calling for his head.  It's simply not good enough.  I think Phil could do with all the support he can get right now.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »
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Offline Gojedo

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2002, 04:13:58 am »
Firstly, I'm not in a position to question the tactical abilities of Thommo as my lack of match time viewing leaves me somewhat uninformed and a bit lacking in what areas we are left wanting, tactically and performance wise though it is becoming apparent we need a change of direction to combat a slide in results.

I have said in another thread that a change in our tactical approach might be the answer but admittedly this is an assumption I have garnered through other fans accounts of the games and so forth. There is not much to take from extended highlights though the excellent match reports here/on the main site mean a better chance of informity than a segment dedicated in the sports section of the t.v news.

What I do know is that Thommo took over a job of such a high pressured magnitude that he has done brilliantly to give us a stint at the top, a MOTM, and though our results have been found wanting lately, he has in general and at the very least solidly perfomed in a position that was heaped onto him after Le Bosses tragic illness. Thommo deserves to be given credit for that itself.

Steve is absolutely right is saying there is only one Phil Thompson! And not only will this experience give him some insight into what is required to take charge of a team and be successful, I'm sure he is astute enough to learn from any hiccups he's had caretaking for the Reds, it will no doubt help Le Boss and the team once G.H comes back and we should thank our lucky stars we had an assistant the class of Thommo to be there and take up the challange when Le Boss took medical leave.

It will be bloody great when G.H returns and might be the refreshing we need to get our challange and player performances back on track but indeed Thommo has done a splendid job in keeping us there or there abouts and a place in the second phase of the Champ League has to be testament to that.

« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline MJN

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2002, 04:44:59 am »
There loads of criticism of tommo at the moment, and loads of people are questioning his tactical knowledge and saying “GH would have done this” or “GH would have done that”

Of course he hasn’t got the tactical know all of GH. GH has won the world cup so of course he will know loads more.

Sometimes I feel sorry 4 tommo. Poor sod doesn’t know whether his coming or going.  Look at him in the dug out during a game.  He is trying to get the team going, but were on a bad run at the moment.

If he can just keep us in touch of the top, then I think when GH comes back, it will be a perfect boost 4 everyone and we can get back to winning
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline Sam_Nyrie

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2002, 10:48:16 am »
Phil has done an excellent job as caretaker as the earlier quoted statistics suggest, and by his own admission is now in contact 4 or 5 times a day with Gerard. I'm not sure whether this means that GH is taking a more "hands on" approach to team selection and tactics, but there's no doubt it will give everyone a big lift when he returns.

I'm not knocking Phil Thompson. I've always been a big fan of his and for me he has an excellent job holding the fort for Gerard. He has conducted himself very well in interviews - especially when we all know he would have preferred to be somewhere else - and in true Liverpool manner has been prepared to give credit where it's due. So, as the subject line says "Let's leave Thommo alone!!" and lets get behind the team and make our voices heard on matchh days instead.

Matches like the Birmingham cup tie when, although we totally outplayed them, the away supporters "outsing" us are embarrassing .... I'm thinking of "Shall we sing a song for you?" for instance ... I sat in the Centenary Stand and our lack of vocal support was a disgrace, particularly around where I sat!

Anyway, to get back to the point. Let's have a moan about lack of skill, lack of commitment, poor performances, bad tactics, but let's remember that we are Liverpool fans, we must make our criticism constructive but get behind the team each and every time they play!
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »
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Offline Steve C

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2002, 01:25:10 pm »
Quote


GH has won the world cup so of course he will know loads more.


When was that then?  :P
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline MJN

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2002, 04:12:37 pm »
i think it was in 98.

but i could be wrong

:P
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline Steve C

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2002, 04:16:01 pm »
Wasnt that Aime Jacquet.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline GedKicksIce

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2002, 05:06:05 pm »
Quote
Wasnt that Aime Jacquet.


Aimé Jacquet was the coach, GH was the technical director of the team, and Jacquet credited Houllier as the one who probably did the most to develop France into the World Cup winners they became. I do believe GH has got a World Cup winners medal  8)
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »
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Offline Steve C

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2002, 05:20:10 pm »
Yep I knew that, GH didnt win the world Cup tho  :P ::)
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2002, 05:24:29 pm »
Yes indeed. In France, he was "le sélectionneur"; he was the one who selected the players and spotted the talent, and he's acknowledged as being the mastermind behind France's success. He's doing that for us now.

On another note, here's an article on the BBC's web site that sort of sums up what a lot of us have been saying; nothing new really, but it's interesting to have a summary and have some perpective from outside.  Didn't know where else to post it, and didn't think it deserved a new thread.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/football/teams/l/liverpool/newsid_1752000/1752696.stm
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline GedKicksIce

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Re: Leave Thommo alone!!
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2002, 05:26:14 pm »
Quote
Yep I knew that, GH didnt win the world Cup tho  :P ::)



damn, I must write and ask him what they gave him that World Cup winners medal for then. Maybe it was for darts or something....  ;D  :P

seriously, i do know what you mean (i think!), but as i said before Aimé Jacquet does credit him a whole lot with France's world cup win.  
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