Topic: European Cup Final 1/6/19. LFC v THFC

[deFacto please, you bastards]

It definitely doesn’t mean nothing.

If you look over the history of one off cup matches (or two legged cup matches) then you will notice a definite correlation between the higher placed league team coming out winners.

It obviously is possible for the lower placed league team to win, Wigan vs City being the obvious example, but the odds will likely be with the team who has the higher league position, which they are in this instance.

It's a one of game. If we went based on league position, we would be winning every game in the league. It doesn't work like that.

[PoetryInMotion]

It was completely insane. Just fucking pile everyone back at least, if they get one off a lucky bounce while you're back to the walls defending then it is what it is and that's game over but to have so much of your team go missing with seconds to go.

The main reason I'm sick is that I think we'd have fucking steamrolled Ajax, like 3 or 4 nil job. Spurs are a tough match for us. We beat them well away this year, it should have been more than 2-1, but at home the last two years they've been for me the best side we've faced. And then there was the spanking they gave us last season at wembley.

We're better than them, we're more experienced than them and we certainly should have the desire to win but it'll be a seriously tough game now rather than a procession.

As an aside, but a  moot point now, but anyone giving Ajax a hope against city was mad too, city would have absolutely destroyed them

But, you can also look at this way. You can't go into any game against any opponent expecting it to be a procession. In a one-off game with no home and away records to look at, especially a final, just like a derby, form and history go out of the window. It's a matter of which team can give its best for the entirety of that game and stay alert during that duration, while being able to execute its own plans. If you look too much into the opposition plans, and start changing too much, it won't help.

So, whether it may have been Ajax or Spurs, Klopp, his staff, and the team would not be preparing for the game expecting a procession or a tighter game. What happens on the field happens on it. But our approach will remain the same. We will prepare to execute our plans in the best possible way during the game. That is all we can do and that is what we will do.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

But, you can also look at this way. You can't go into any game against any opponent expecting it to be a procession. In a one-off game with no home and away records to look at, especially a final, just like a derby, form and history go out of the window. It's a matter of which team can give its best for the entirety of that game and stay alert during that duration, while being able to execute its own plans. If you look too much into the opposition plans, and start changing too much, it won't help.

So, whether it may have been Ajax or Spurs, Klopp, his staff, and the team would not be preparing for the game expecting a procession or a tighter game. What happens on the field happens on it. But our approach will remain the same. We will prepare to execute our plans in the best possible way during the game. That is all we can do and that is what we will do.

Well said

[Davidbowie]

I'm feeling mixed emotions about this one to be honest. Did not want Spurs to be honest. I hate all-English ties in europe.

Whilst you see the gap in the PL which proves how much of a better side we are, that really counts for nothing in a one-off game. And I have to say, Spurs are one of maybe only 2 or 3 teams this season who have dominated us in the game (second half at Anfield especially).

They have many dangerous players - Kane, Son, Moura, Eriksen and Alli are all excellent players.


On the flip side, we as a club have lost 4 consecutive finals. Klopp has lost 5 consecutive finals. We HAVE to win this time. Losing is just not an option. No more 'almosts' and 'well done for getting there'. We've got to put this one away. The law of averages dictates it.

Surely, surely, surely we cannot lose 2 CL finals in a row. We deserve it, the players deserve it and my word does Klopp deserve it.

[Sharado]

But, you can also look at this way. You can't go into any game against any opponent expecting it to be a procession. In a one-off game with no home and away records to look at, especially a final, just like a derby, form and history go out of the window. It's a matter of which team can give its best for the entirety of that game and stay alert during that duration, while being able to execute its own plans. If you look too much into the opposition plans, and start changing too much, it won't help.

So, whether it may have been Ajax or Spurs, Klopp, his staff, and the team would not be preparing for the game expecting a procession or a tighter game. What happens on the field happens on it. But our approach will remain the same. We will prepare to execute our plans in the best possible way during the game. That is all we can do and that is what we will do.

Well yeah, of course that's true, but I defy anyone watching Ajax second half as a liverpool fan and not have thought 'fuck me we'll do these up like kippers'.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I'm feeling mixed emotions about this one to be honest. Did not want Spurs to be honest. I hate all-English ties in europe.

Whilst you see the gap in the PL which proves how much of a better side we are, that really counts for nothing in a one-off game. And I have to say, Spurs are one of maybe only 2 or 3 teams this season who have dominated us in the game (second half at Anfield especially).

They have many dangerous players - Kane, Son, Moura, Eriksen and Alli are all excellent players.


On the flip side, we as a club have lost 4 consecutive finals. Klopp has lost 5 consecutive finals. We HAVE to win this time. Losing is just not an option. No more 'almosts' and 'well done for getting there'. We've got to put this one away. The law of averages dictates it.

Surely, surely, surely we cannot lose 2 CL finals in a row. We deserve it, the players deserve it and my word does Klopp deserve it.

We've already lost two finals in a row [07 and last year]

But I take your point. This is a turning point for this team and for the manager, because this can propel further success

[vorsprungtorbenpieknik]

Means nothing. We beat Milan while finishing 5th. Chelsea beat Bayern while finishing 7th or 8th in the league.

It's a one of game, league form doesn't matter.

Tell that to Everton.

The form going out the window thing is a myth, not backed up by evidence. There is a reason shock defeats are called shock defeats.

If the players think they might lose they'll lose. 

We have the players. In every single position we have significantly better players. We have a better manager with more trophy winning experience. We'll have over 2/3rds of the stadium filled with reds. As we speak, corporate luvvies are earning thousands hawking tickets to reds. Spurs fans simply won't do that.

Any kind of win for Spurs will be a miracle in excess of what we achieved in Istanbul. The difference in quality between us and them is greater than us and Milan in 2005. At least in 2005 we had a couple of players that they would take in a heartbeat. 

Playing as we are not one team in Europe would beat us in that final next month. Not one. Certainly not one that is in such ropey form as Spurs.

[PoetryInMotion]

It definitely doesn’t mean nothing.

If you look over the history of one off cup matches (or two legged cup matches) then you will notice a definite correlation between the higher placed league team coming out winners.

It obviously is possible for the lower placed league team to win, Wigan vs City being the obvious example, but the odds will likely be with the team who has the higher league position, which they are in this instance.

You might be looking at only the final games, but that doesn't actually affect any probability numbers. If you want actually calculate or assess it, you might want to collect data (whichever cup tournaments you want to consider as relevant to UCL) and see how many upsets have been over the years in different knock-out rounds (single game - not two legged) of different competitions. There'd be a lot more such upsets than what you seem to present in your post and whenever there is a probability of something, it always means there is a chance. And, when there is a chance, the most we can do is to do whatever on the pitch to not to give the opposition their chance. Odds don't matter in one-off games. Any result CAN happen.

Plus, this is a game between a PL Top 4 side vs another PL Top 4 side. Instead of considering it as a final, if you think of it as a league game, then, none of the possible results is an actual 'upset'.

Nobody can be surprised if this will be a close game. We will prepare for a closely fought game. That means, do our best, and the rest will take care of itself.

[Jm55]

It's a one of game. If we went based on league position, we would be winning every game in the league. It doesn't work like that.

I get what you’re saying, but the thing is we have won the vast majority of our league games this season. There’s no guarantees otherwise what would be the point, but my guess is if you play it 10 times then the team with 20 points more wins 7 of them. I realise we’re playing this once, not 10 times, but that’s one of the factors involved when the bookies will be calculating odds for it. There’s no guarantees, but to say the league position of the 2 clubs (and head to head record) is irrelevant is not correct in my
Opinion.

It’s like when people say that form goes out of the window in the derby. No it doesn’t, Everton haven’t won at Anfield since 1999 and in almost every one of those seasons we’ve been the better team as evidenced by the league position.

[Dave D]

If you've watched us play this season, if you understand our players and manager, if you believe, then you know.

Spurs can have everybody fit, they can continue to pray that half our team will be out injured, they can put in the performance of their lives.

But Tottenham are going to have to literally kill every single one of our players on June 1st to stop them lifting that trophy.

[PoetryInMotion]

Well yeah, of course that's true, but I defy anyone watching Ajax second half as a liverpool fan and not have thought 'fuck me we'll do these up like kippers'.

Not denying that, but also we can do with what we've been presented now.

It could've been a worse match-up, at least in terms of experience. Spurs also are like Ajax, inexperienced at this level and stage, so we can do all we can to exploit that. We are not, we have just been in a final last season and this is our 4th CL final in the last 15 years. It could've been Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Bayern etc. They might be weaker than in previous years and Real Madrid weren't exactly creating skyscrapers last season, but in a one-off final, they have a lot of experience and nous on what to do to win that game. Even at Nou Camp, when we were playing okay, but couldn't convert, they took their chances and they won, who knows what would happen in a neutral ground with their dark arts?

Or it could've been a financially doped Man City having enough to put two good lineups for the final.

We can do with what we have 

[Skidder.]

I honestly think they did. If you crumble at the slightest hint of pressure, you deserve to go out. Those are the high stakes of this competition. They had the beating of Spurs for the whole tie, then they concede three in one half? Mentally weak and tactically naive.
Exactly. They let Spurs win that with their sheer naivety. So many chances to wind down the clock.

We used to be like that ourselves, thankfully we're not anymore.

Indeed. If you can't see why the Spuds deserve their win you're looking at it skewed in my opinion.

They may have rode their luck at times, but so have we and like it or hate it, our common footballing trajectories have been similar in trend, at different times, and to different 'glories', during the Premier League.

Would have liked Ajax... the Dutch are boss and if you're going to beat or possibly get beaten by someone you'd want it to be Ajax out of the remaining teams. That is mostly down to the fact that Ajax have won it four times and... also having an affinity for Dutch folk.

But having Spurs in the final is great I think and I'm really looking forward to it as they played a blinder. Beating Barcelona on aggregate in the semis is a great accomplishment, but so is beating Ajax in Amsterdam on a second-leg to win 3-3 (agg.) on away goals.

The Barca win is, of course, without question, the better of the two... but if I were a spud, I'd probably have some argument for the Ajax win to be a better victory.

Whatever end, it has been the best year in European football... (all over) for like, ever for me. Seen some stonking matches this season and our successes are just the cream.

Spurs will be the cherry.

[Jm55]

Well yeah, of course that's true, but I defy anyone watching Ajax second half as a liverpool fan and not have thought 'fuck me we'll do these up like kippers'.

Whilst that’s true, I watched the second half of them against Juventus and thought they looked like they’d be a total nightmare to play against. For some reason, now that Juve are out, the mantra of them being old and slow is being trotted out, but before that tie most people had them down as 3rd or z4th favourites and were desperate to avoid them (i realise that the desperation to avoid isn’t just for footballing reasons but it certainly was a factor.)

There’s no telling which Ajax would show up, they were at home yesterday which perhaps contributed to their over confidence. The fact is they’ve now won away at Real Madrid, Juve and Spurs and done so relatively convincingly. Anyone thinking this was going to be easy because they looked defensively frail in the second half may well have reconsidered that position had they held on last night.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I get what you’re saying, but the thing is we have won the vast majority of our league games this season. There’s no guarantees otherwise what would be the point, but my guess is if you play it 10 times then the team with 20 points more wins 7 of them. I realise we’re playing this once, not 10 times, but that’s one of the factors involved when the bookies will be calculating odds for it. There’s no guarantees, but to say the league position of the 2 clubs (and head to head record) is irrelevant is not correct in my
Opinion.

It’s like when people say that form goes out of the window in the derby. No it doesn’t, Everton haven’t won at Anfield since 1999 and in almost every one of those seasons we’ve been the better team as evidenced by the league position.

Everton being Everton is a different situation. Look at the games against the Mancs as a better example.

[Mr_Shane]

I think the experience of playing in the occasion is going to count. Spurs overcame Ajax because Ajax were naive. We overcame Barcelona because we did not allow Barcelona to come back, I feel Spurs are going to be like Alves in 2001. They will keep on coming at us, but our experience of getting results we need and our desire to not lose a second final gives us the advantage

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I believe in this side, fcking Mentality Monsters. Whatever happens, I fully believe in them, they've done it all year long.

[Larse]

It's a one of game. If we went based on league position, we would be winning every game in the league. It doesn't work like that.

Not the best example because in the league the only game we lost was against the only team above us and we lost against all the teams below us

[Anwer]

Not the best example because in the league the only game we lost was against the only team above us and we lost against all the teams below us

Not the best reply either 

[DelTrotter]

Well yeah, of course that's true, but I defy anyone watching Ajax second half as a liverpool fan and not have thought 'fuck me we'll do these up like kippers'.

Yep, we’d have hammered them regardless of the wanking about them beating Juve. Shame, but we’ll beat Tottenham too, it’s nice going in to a final knowing we are the better side in every department, doesn’t guarantee anything but it sure helps.

[scalatore]

In all honesty, I'm a tiny bit worried about the fight Spurs have shown to get this far, first against City, then against Ajax. Definitely feels like they'll try to give us a game, though I'm extremely confident that we'll come out on top. It's always less interesting playing against an English side too, since we play them at least twice every year.

We're better than them. And we've been through the dress rehearsal last year, we know what being in a CL final entails - all the hype and marketing commitments, and all the pressure and atmosphere. We're massive favourites to win this.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

In all honesty, I'm a tiny bit worried about the fight Spurs have shown to get this far, first against City, then against Ajax. Definitely feels like they'll try to give us a game,

Mate what side wouldn't want to try in a European cup final? Seriously? They've shown fight credit to them, as have we.

[newterp]

In all honesty, I'm a tiny bit worried about the fight Spurs have shown to get this far, first against City, then against Ajax. Definitely feels like they'll try to give us a game, though I'm extremely confident that we'll come out on top. It's always less interesting playing against an English side too, since we play them at least twice every year.

We're better than them. And we've been through the dress rehearsal last year, we know what being in a CL final entails - all the hype and marketing commitments, and all the pressure and atmosphere. We're massive favourites to win this.

Spurs have had some massive massive massive luck.

All teams need it - but they should be dead and buried already. I know the fearful type will say - well that's destiny - but at the same time if we play our game - we WILL win.

[mkingdon]

It's hard not to imagine the horrors of the lantern jawed mouth breather Kane reeling away in delight after scoring against us. Losing to any PL team would be horrific, but Spurs would be up there.

I hope he plays but is woefully unfit and has a stinker.

Our midfield, and I would play Fabinho Henderson and Wijnaldum, should be better than theirs, especially if Wanyama plays. Our front three should be more than a match for their defence especially their full backs and we can only hope and pray that Davies is selected!

They have some dangerous players but should Kane be anywhere near fit they will sacrifice one of the players I'd be worried about (Son or Moura) so we just have to worry about them coming on as sub late in the game.

Last year should be our team talk, motivation and reason to steam roller whoever we are playing. It's time to win this one.

[...]

Just booked my train tickets up to Liverpool for the weekend - buzzing!

Not quite sure why we have to wait 3 weeks though but hopefully all the lads are back fit and raring to go.

[G Richards]

Like most reds I’d rather have played Ajax, just because I’d prefer a European team to a Prem team, given the occasion, but it’s a minor quibble when you think we are in our second Champions League final in two seasons. We really are on the march now, and we should add a few big trophies in the next few years.

Spurs gave us a real run for our money recently, and it was only a late Lloris error that saw us claim the three points. I expect a tight game, but I do think we are the better side and should win. I’d guess something like 60-40 in our favour.

Can’t wait. Although I’ll have to. We all will. I’m not sure what I think of the large gap to the final. I’d shorten it by a week - still plenty of time to rest and prepare, but not so much time that you could lose your edge while waiting.

In the meantime a nineteenth league title would be just the trick. Beat Wolves and hope City lay an egg at Brighton. It’s been a strange few days, so why not?

[M7 Heckler]

I totally agree with embracing our status as favourites. I wrote this elsewhere but it obviously belongs here, too:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you’ll allow me the indulgence, I’d like to take a moment to look ahead to the final, and to tell you what I’d like to see there.

I’d like to see us be the favourites.
 
What do I mean by that?

 
I mean that I would like us…
 
 

• to believe that we are the better team.
• to use our greater experience.
• to play like the trophy is destined to be ours.

 
 
Let’s think, for a minute, about how we’ve lost finals before, and how teams have beaten us. In particular, look at what Real did to us. Real – the cynical, white-shirted manifestation of the cold reality of greater power. The instantiation of superiority.
 
 

• They stayed tight.
• They let us expend our energy.
• They did not get caught up in the emotion of the occasion.
• They were, above all, ruthless.

 
 
No matter what happens, our opponents will be not just first timers, but first timers with the added ‘what a dream to even be here’ factor that we had last season. They will have a certain freedom because of that. They will have nothing to lose.
 
So how do we take a team with nothing to lose, and make sure that they lose everything, nonetheless?
 
We become that bastard, stubborn, resolute and impossible to breach Liverpool that’s been so dominant this season. We spoil, we ruin, we let them expend their energy. We understand that the longer the game remains even, the more likely we are to win it. We understand that the more they come at us, the more likely they are to be open at the back. We realise that teams are often at their most vulnerable when they’re at their most positive – a counter attack, a cool finish, a ‘first chance of the night against the run of play’ taken, and reality comes crashing in on the power of hope and dream.
 
And then, if they have any fight left in them, we take the sting out of the game. We keep possession when necessary. Take the ball when necessary. Defend deep when necessary. Foul the young ingenue out of the game when necessary. We do whatever is necessary. And when our opponent pauses, in the flurry of his youthful intensity, that’s when we plunge our hidden knife deep, deep, deep into a heart that was just not broken enough to fight men like us.

And our hand of death, in twisting the knife, will show every bit of the hard-won skill and ability which lies behind our ruthlessness.

The crushing embrace of inevitability overcomes them. An Icarussing of our opponents: “Who were we, to reach so high? Did we really dare to raise ourselves to the redness of that Liverpool sun? How nice to have flown, but how inevitable that our pale wings should melt, and we should come crashing down into the sea, here, where it’s cool. Here, where gravity doesn’t pull us down anymore. Here, where we belong.”

We do that not because we are cruel – but because this is not a game to us. This is not a beautiful journey. This is who we are. This is what we do.
 
This is our destiny.
 
Dreams are beautiful. Dreams give you wings.
 
But destiny is the sun.
 
And the sun is red.

such a good post! 

[RedSince86]

YNWA will sound awesome in this stadium for the final.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/5DFU56wQ6B4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/5DFU56wQ6B4</a>

[sinnermichael]

They have many dangerous players - Kane, Son, Moura, Eriksen and Alli are all excellent players.

Hope they try and shoehorn Kane in and play all five. We'd rip them apart.

[Sharado]

Hope they try and shoehorn Kane in and play all five. We'd rip them apart.

Kane trying to get fit/potentially rushing himself back for this is going to be the story central to the build up of this game.

[meady1981]

YNWA will sound awesome in this stadium for the final.

Like it. Nice compact stadium, pitch not too big, and no big running track round it like the last few.

[Andar]

Their team selection is always a bit hard to predict. I mean i know we alternate with our midfield selection, but Pochettino always seems to shuffle between 3 and 4 at the back, and a 3 or 2 in the centre. When everyone is fit, a lot of rotation game to game too.

They're a 4231 team for the most part. If Kane comes in, then there is no chance he is able to drop Lucas or Son in their form. So if Kane starts, we're looking at Alli dropping back i guess. Possibly something like this:

             Sissoko   Alli

                  Eriksen

Lucas                          Son
                   Kane

Alli is not very good as part of the '2'. Him and Sissoko - we should be in total control there. Fabinho hasn't started both games against Spurs this season. Eriksen will find new company there.

Kane not fit and we're looking at this:

          Sissoko     Wanyama/Winks

                     Alli

Eriksen                         Son

                    Lucas

Might be Son up top or Lucas out on the left. Again should be in control of the middle of the park. Front three are a bit to handle but watching them over the last month, they have often been neutralised with ease against average outfits. Our lot should have a handle on them.

He could even go 4312 like he does at times. So:


        Sissoko    Wanyama/Winks     Alli

                         Eriksen

             Lucas                    Son


I'm sure Klopp will have prepared for all possible set-ups. Three weeks is some time to prepare.

What could work against them is that there will be a big furore over Kane's fitness from the media, so that could throw up their preparation. We've seen it enough times with England and major tournaments. Never ideal that sort of talk. A lot of pressure to get it spot on for the biggest game of his managerial career. He is going to have his head scrambled before the final. Whether to start Kane or not, whether to overload in the middle or not, 3 or 4 at the back.
 
We have our set-up and Klopp will be sitting with a cigar, getting our lads ready and primed. Not much to think over with our midfield selection either, as it should very likely be Fabinho, Hendo and Wijnaldum.

This next three weeks are going to be a drag!

[deFacto please, you bastards]

The three weeks I'll be using to refresh my batteries, this season has been exhausting

[PhaseOfPlay]

Spurs don't do draws this season, so it's probably not going to extra time. They'll go for it, they'll leave gaps, they'll play to the end, and they'll be a credit to themselves. But even if both teams have all players available, we edge it on ability and fitness. They leave gaps, we don't. Spurs will leave enough for us to punish them.

[The Naby Keita fan club]

Incredible stadium.

A cut above the new Spurs one.

 

[disgraced cake]

In all the madness of this we still have a chance, slim it may be, of being the champions at the end of the weekend. Incredible feat to not only take that to the wire but to reach the final of the European Cup. Sadly the league would have been wrapped up about 3 months ago if we weren't playing bent c*nts. All we can do on Sunday is our own thing and come out hopefully with no new injury concerns. I'll imagine a press conference will be held tomorrow but if not then Saturday, where we'll find out the extent of a couple of injuries.

As for the final, I'm a bit gutted Spurs got through to be honest. I don't really have an opinion on who the better team is but Ajax throwing it away in that position leads me to believe they were the ones I'd be more comfortable playing. Of course like us they're giants of Europe but ultimately they just didn't have what it takes, hard lines to them because a final alongside them would have been incredible. Spurs are a great side and unfortunately we'll be playing them on the biggest night of their history. Maybe that'll work in our favour but you can't say yet. I'll continue saying what I have with every Liverpool game this season - if both teams play to their best - we'll win. Hopefully the pain and disappointment from losing the final last year is what drives us on to victory this time. Every final is a giant opportunity but even with a squad as young as ours, I get the feeling some will never have another chance as good as this, playing a club who are inexperienced in matches of this stature. This as well, could and probably will be Tottenham's greatest ever chance.

Ultimately I believe we will sneak this one over 90 minutes and win 3-2, bringing home number 6 in the process. What a place to do it, what a time to be alive.

COME ON YOU FUCKIN REDMEN!!!

[Magix]

Spurs don't do draws this season, so it's probably not going to extra time. They'll go for it, they'll leave gaps, they'll play to the end, and they'll be a credit to themselves. But even if both teams have all players available, we edge it on ability and fitness. They leave gaps, we don't. Spurs will leave enough for us to punish them.

Isn't Spurs on par with us fitness wise or do we edge it?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Isn't Spurs on par with us fitness wise or do we edge it?

Unless there is testing, there's no way to tell, player for player.

However, we have better squad depth and scope for rotation, so our key players should be fresher coming into the final. Although if Pochettino does nothing but tactical stuff between the end of the season and the final, his team might come in with renewed freshness and proper rest on the day.

[RedSamba]

The three weeks I'll be using to refresh my batteries, this season has been exhausting

not if we win the league this Sunday  i will be shitfaced until the final and hopefully after it as well 

[Magix]

Unless there is testing, there's no way to tell, player for player.

However, we have better squad depth and scope for rotation, so our key players should be fresher coming into the final. Although if Pochettino does nothing but tactical stuff between the end of the season and the final, his team might come in with renewed freshness and proper rest on the day.

Cheers PoP. So Pochettino's regime and prep for the final is the unknown quantity here, but yes, all things considered - fitness, morale, ability, looks - we are better.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Cheers PoP. So Pochettino's regime and prep for the final is the unknown quantity here, but yes, all things considered - fitness, morale, ability, looks - we are better.

They are at a disadvantage there - they have Harry Kane