Topic: Is it time to review the Saturday 3pm "Blackout" on live TV games in the UK?

[mikey_LFC]

Football is not allowed to be shown live on TV on Saturdays between 14:45 and 17:15.

This has been in place since the 1960s when then Burnley F.C. chairman Bob Lord successfully convinced fellow Football League chairmen that televised matches on a Saturday afternoon would have a negative effect on the attendances of other football league games that were not being televised and as a result reduce their financial income. It is also said to be in place to encourage people to take part in grassroots / amateur football games whose times might conflict with these kick-offs, potentially lowering attendance.

My position as a Liverpool fan who goes to every home game, but can't get tickets for away games, so finds it difficult to watch away 3pm kick-offs is that the ban should be reviewed, as the benefits are far from clear or evidence based. Many people resort to watching these games on streaming websites or through certain boxes that allow the games to be showed so the ban doesn't stop people watching the games if they want to, although it does stop them watching in any consistent quality.

The other clear impact, which has been heightened by recent increases in the level of fines, is that the number of people spending money in pubs/bars is far lower during these times than when live TV games are on, so potential negative economic impacts on football clubs is only passed on to other areas and isn't eradicated. This is especially important as the number of pubs and bars shutting is very high in the UK at this time. It is not uncommon to see a boarded up pub around all areas of Liverpool. There is also an imbalance between the number of people who can go to a football game and the number of people who want to watch a football game, so the amount of money spent in total in the country is likely to be a lot less as a result of this ban, than the other way round.

As you can tell, i'm not impartial, and I'm sure this forum is impartial on the subject too, but I thought I'd just survey the RAWK community to see just how strong the feeling is, and if I'm maybe misjudging the stance of many on here.

If the feeling is strong enough, I'm considering starting a petition on the government's website to at least get a review conducted. Unfortunately the site is currently shut due to the general election, but that at least gives me time to understand whether I'm massively missing the mark on this, or if I'm wasting my time in pursuing this.

So let me know, is it time to review the Saturday 3pm "Blackout" on live TV games in the UK?

[ToneLa]

Think it's silly really, I only wanna watch one team most of the time and so do most I know.

The idea that I can't watch Liverpool doesn't make me go see Tranmere instead. I appreciate that, but it doesn't work that way.

I'm sure there's more general fans of the sport who would watch a local game instead of a televised one from a higher league but surely they're the minority - why not give people the option anyway, surely that suits everyone?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Yes [/closethread]

[Danny Boys Dad]

The idea that I can't watch Liverpool doesn't make me go see Tranmere instead. I appreciate that, but it doesn't work that way.

Isn't the reason for it the other way round, to stop the Tranmere supporter who might also support Liverpool, from staying at home and watching Liverpool on tv rather than going to watch Tranmere?

Lots of supporters of smaller clubs must also have a bigger club that they follow, and if they could stay in/go to the pub on a Saturday afternoon and watch the big club they might not go and watch the smaller club.

[rob1966]

Think it's silly really, I only wanna watch one team most of the time and so do most I know.

The idea that I can't watch Liverpool doesn't make me go see Tranmere instead. I appreciate that, but it doesn't work that way.

I'm sure there's more general fans of the sport who would watch a local game instead of a televised one from a higher league but surely they're the minority - why not give people the option anyway, surely that suits everyone?

Years ago it happened that people would go and watch Tranmere, but when its £22 a ticket its not going to happen. I've had to stop going due to the cost and having a young family - childcare, getting rid of our mortgage and going on holiday were bigger priorities so I would love to be able to watch our games on the telly, rather than use streams, until the day I can start going again.

[Linudden]

You should have the same rule as the rest of the world: only one game live on telly simultaneously on any day except the final round. That means that two sets of fans are lucky and don't have to find VPN's/streams.

Say, if you don't support Liverpool or Brighton then there's no need for staying at home and not attending Blackpool vs Macclesfield or whatever game's at where they live.

[Riquende]

Clubs should be free to offer subscriptions to stream all their matches on their own reliable platform. I'd pay a small amount to get every LFC game on a reliable HD stream rather than having to go looking every few days.

What I won't do is pay Sky/BT/whoever silly money just on the off chance I can watch mid table fodder like Man Utd clog about each week.

[4pool]

No.

The only way broadcasters will show 3 pm kickoffs is via internet streaming packages that cost more money.

So you'll be putting your money into their pockets. This will price out many.

A bit like VAR, be careful what you wish for. 

[Danny Boys Dad]

Clubs should be free to offer subscriptions to stream all their matches on their own reliable platform.

Rules out LFC if the ticketing site is anything to go by.

[rob1966]

No.

The only way broadcasters will show 3 pm kickoffs is via internet streaming packages that cost more money.

So you'll be putting your money into their pockets. This will price out many.

A bit like VAR, be careful what you wish for. 

What, so every other fucker in the world can watch OUR league on a Saturday, but we  shouldn't be able to??

[4pool]

Clubs should be free to offer subscriptions to stream all their matches on their own reliable platform.

Brilliant idea.

Those clubs with the most supporters make the most money. The rich get richer.


Just imagine how many millions of subscribers accounts  Abu Dhabi could pay for to launder money into their club.

[Alan_X]

Clubs should be free to offer subscriptions to stream all their matches on their own reliable platform. I'd pay a small amount to get every LFC game on a reliable HD stream rather than having to go looking every few days.

What I won't do is pay Sky/BT/whoever silly money just on the off chance I can watch mid table fodder like Man Utd clog about each week.

1. Why do you think it would be a small amount? The top clubs will see it as offering a premium service -

"You too can watch the match like the rest of the [insert club's name here] family. Experience the traditional Saturday match experience in the comfort of your own home for less than the price of a ticket... Just £25 a game PPV..."

2. And as others have said, it would just enrich the big clubs.

[Skeeve]

While there are issues with changing the current setup, the reality is that the British fans of the PL are effectively worse off than foreign fans of the same team who are all able to watch the games just fine which doesn't seem very fair since it is our league and also that people can usually find streams for games if they want, so the premise of it helping attendances elsewhere is a flawed one too.

Even though we would be one of the clubs that would disproportionately benefit from this, they should still share the money made from this with the PL doing their version of the streaming services offered by the big american leagues, you could still offer team-specific subscriptions, but the overall pool of money should still be shared in some fashion.

[4pool]

The reason the Premier League gets so much from foreign broadcast rights is in partial because of internet streaming packages.

As an example. In the USA, NBC has the broadcasting rights. They primarily show one of the 3 pm kickoffs on NBCSN.

All other matches are streamed on NBC Gold. Which this season, fwiw, went up 30% for the annual sub fee.

NBC try to force you to pay the extra sub because--- all teams will be on the Gold package a minimum of four times during the season. ( as an example this weekends match v Brighton and the Derby next week are on Gold).

So you pay for your tv sports via cable or satellite. Then are asked to pay more to watch a limited amount of matches. Also in order to watch any  League Cup, FA Cup, Champions League  match you may also need to pay for a different streaming version ( ESPN plus or B/R Live depending on the cup).

In order to watch every Liverpool match in all Comps, you'll pay for your tv in some manner then add in three different streaming subs.

Great deal, eh....

[DHKopper]

I'm happy enough paying £5 a month for IPTV.  If it went official, it would be at least twice that price per game, from the off.  Two years later, watch LFC for only £30 a game!

Fuck that!

[Dazzer23]

Nope.

The reason the ban was brought in, in 1960, is still totally valid to me. Lower league, non league and grass roots football would suffer.

I’m a football addict, I can watch 5 premier league games a weekend plus any number of others. It’s enough.
If I want a fix between 3.00 and 5.00 on a Saturday, and I often do, I will go and pay through the turnstile at a local club. I’m perfectly happy to do that and know I still could, but many wouldn’t, they’ll stay on their settee and take the easy option.

[Statto Red]

Yes, it's completely & utterly outdated, if you want to watch a 3pm Premier League match, you can always find a stream, change VPNs & the like, lower leagues are still pricey to get in Tranmere is around £20-£25 mark, It's daft, i can fly what 40 minutes Liverpool to Dublin & legally watch a Saturday 3pm premier league match, but can't do so in my own country.

 

[ScouserAtHeart]

You should have the same rule as the rest of the world: only one game live on telly simultaneously on any day except the final round. That means that two sets of fans are lucky and don't have to find VPN's/streams.

Not sure that's how it works anywhere else. Here in India, I can watch up to 4 games simultaneously (usually only if 4 of the Big Six are playing at the same time) and a minimum of two 3 PM games every Saturday.

That's just on TV. We can legally stream every single live game in HD with Sky/BT commentary, from the same content provider as the games on TV, for the grand price of 11 pounds a year

[rob1966]

Nope.

The reason the ban was brought in, in 1960, is still totally valid to me. Lower league, non league and grass roots football would suffer.

I’m a football addict, I can watch 5 premier league games a weekend plus any number of others. It’s enough.
If I want a fix between 3.00 and 5.00 on a Saturday, and I often do, I will go and pay through the turnstile at a local club. I’m perfectly happy to do that and know I still could, but many wouldn’t, they’ll stay on their settee and take the easy option.

Never gone to watch anyone but us. Even on Fridays when my mates would nip over to watch Tranmere I never had any interest in going.

These days, if its not us on, I won't watch the games, I hardly watch MOTD anymore - when I first got Sky in 1998 I was watching football most days, but as I;ve got older, I've lost interest outside of LFC. I live in Manc, so there is no way I'm going to support a local team such as Salford City or Trafford FC. My lad refuses to play for a team anymore, so can't even go and watch kids footy. I usually potter about with a stream on the laptop if the weather is nice, or sit on the couch and watch us.

Not sure that's how it works anywhere else. Here in India, I can watch up to 4 games simultaneously (usually only if 4 of the Big Six are playing at the same time) and a minimum of two 3 PM games every Saturday.

That's just on TV. We can legally stream every single live game in HD with Sky/BT commentary, from the same content provider as the games on TV, for the grand price of 11 pounds a year

When I go to Tenerife in January there is wall to wall English football - I'm sure they can watch every game as when none of the big boys are playing on a Saturday there is always a game on.

UK, fuck all and its OUR league

[Riquende]

1. Why do you think it would be a small amount? The top clubs will see it as offering a premium service -

"You too can watch the match like the rest of the [insert club's name here] family. Experience the traditional Saturday match experience in the comfort of your own home for less than the price of a ticket... Just £25 a game PPV..."

2. And as others have said, it would just enrich the big clubs.

If they try to charge something like what you've suggested then they won't tempt anyone away from existing illegal streams.

And as for the second point, I simply have no interest in watching non-LFC games (even for free), and that isn't being changed by having to subscribe to Sky/BT etc.

[Millie]

The reason the Premier League gets so much from foreign broadcast rights is in partial because of internet streaming packages.

As an example. In the USA, NBC has the broadcasting rights. They primarily show one of the 3 pm kickoffs on NBCSN.

All other matches are streamed on NBC Gold. Which this season, fwiw, went up 30% for the annual sub fee.

NBC try to force you to pay the extra sub because--- all teams will be on the Gold package a minimum of four times during the season. ( as an example this weekends match v Brighton and the Derby next week are on Gold).

So you pay for your tv sports via cable or satellite. Then are asked to pay more to watch a limited amount of matches. Also in order to watch any  League Cup, FA Cup, Champions League  match you may also need to pay for a different streaming version ( ESPN plus or B/R Live depending on the cup).

In order to watch every Liverpool match in all Comps, you'll pay for your tv in some manner then add in three different streaming subs.

Great deal, eh....

how much does this actually cost?

[[new username under construction]]

Why not just pay the FA £40 a month for all games at all times? The money is then not taken by the big clubs but split evenly around the league. I have no real interest in watching other games but will still watch the big ones

[rafathegaffa83]

I think the problem for the PL in the future if current rules change that the horse has bolted on this one, if they ever wanted a NBA or NFL style platform with access to games. They do have a production company that shows the games internationally and provides additional content which could help them set-up quickly.

 I can get in Canada through DAZN, live access to every PL game, plus pretty much every CL game from the playoffs on and most EL games for one monthly fee that is less than £7.50 a month. And that includes access to a host of other sports such as the NFL

[OneTouchFooty]

I'd be surprised if more than 2-3% of our fans (or other teams fans) go to watch local sides instead of streaming the game at 3pm through various means. Makes no sense restricting people who can't get tickets or afford to go from watching.

I'd happily pay a subscription to get all our games in HD every season hassle free. If people think that's a daft idea then fair enough, I'll go back to the free streams.

[Branno]

It is mad. In Oz I get to see every Premier / Champions League / Europa League / International for free as part of my mobile phone plan (Optus). Or you can pay just $15 per month if you aint with them. But bear in mind the 3pm is a 2am kick off Sunday over here.Midweek games are perfect though 7-9am

[Alan_X]

Never gone to watch anyone but us. Even on Fridays when my mates would nip over to watch Tranmere I never had any interest in going.

These days, if its not us on, I won't watch the games, I hardly watch MOTD anymore - when I first got Sky in 1998 I was watching football most days, but as I;ve got older, I've lost interest outside of LFC. I live in Manc, so there is no way I'm going to support a local team such as Salford City or Trafford FC. My lad refuses to play for a team anymore, so can't even go and watch kids footy. I usually potter about with a stream on the laptop if the weather is nice, or sit on the couch and watch us.

When I go to Tenerife in January there is wall to wall English football - I'm sure they can watch every game as when none of the big boys are playing on a Saturday there is always a game on.

UK, fuck all and its OUR league

So you can watch wall to wall football from another country when you're in Spain.
 
Have you actually looked at the calendar for La Liga? Completely fucked by pay-per-view TV. Every week there's a Friday game, then on Saturday it's a game at 12.00, then 15.00, then 17.30, 20.00. On Sunday it's the same - a game at 11.00, 13.00, 15.00, 17.30 and the 20.00.

Football for the TV audience not the poor fuckers who actually go. 3pm wouldn't be an issue because we'd all be fucked around from pillar to post by the tv schedulers. There might be one game left at 3pm on a Saturday if the TV companies had their way.

[Alan_X]

I'd be surprised if more than 2-3% of our fans (or other teams fans) go to watch local sides instead of streaming the game at 3pm through various means. Makes no sense restricting people who can't get tickets or afford to go from watching.

I'd happily pay a subscription to get all our games in HD every season hassle free. If people think that's a daft idea then fair enough, I'll go back to the free streams.

I think people are vastly over-estimating the number of people who watch on illegal streams at 3.00pm.

[Titi Camara]

Main argument on both sides are pretty much -

3pm TV games kill gates on match days for teams lower down the divisions

Not everyone can afford to go to the game or get a ticket

On balance, and as the first one is largely bollocks, they should fuck the rule off and crack on. You'd think the extra TV revenues would have Premiership teams banging down the down of TV reps. Imagine there will be a change in the near future...

[Alan_X]

If they try to charge something like what you've suggested then they won't tempt anyone away from existing illegal streams.

And as for the second point, I simply have no interest in watching non-LFC games (even for free), and that isn't being changed by having to subscribe to Sky/BT etc.

So why does anyone buy BT or Sky packages? If you're right then people would just watch those games on illegal streams. They don't because most people don't work that way.

People who are relatively tech-savvy and don't worry too much about malware and viruses can't understand that others prefer to buy a guaranteed product from a trusted source. 

[Alan_X]

Main argument on both sides are pretty much -

3pm TV games kill gates on match days for teams lower down the divisions

Not everyone can afford to go to the game or get a ticket

On balance, and as the first one is largely bollocks, they should fuck the rule off and crack on. You'd think the extra TV revenues would have Premiership teams banging down the down of TV reps. Imagine there will be a change in the near future...

You trust the TV companies to do us all a favour and not use this to stitch us all up even further? They'll give us cheap access to their premium product?

Give the TV companies control and once 3pm Saturday goes the argument will be the same as for the rest of the televised games: Why have them all on at the same time? Give viewers the choice by spreading them out across the weekend.

[mkingdon]

It's crazy and unfair that when on holiday in the US I can watch all and any PL games on TV.

Back home, if we have a Saturday 3pm game, I'm dodging porn ads and malware on some shitty, stuttering stream

I get the grass roots argument.

As others have said I'd happily pay for all LFC games every season, and a proportion of that should be taken and ploughed into grass roots football in whatever form is seen to be best.  Watching LFC on TV would never interfere with me going to watch a lower league team because I have never have and probably never would.

[rob1966]

So you can watch wall to wall football from another country when you're in Spain.
 
Have you actually looked at the calendar for La Liga? Completely fucked by pay-per-view TV. Every week there's a Friday game, then on Saturday it's a game at 12.00, then 15.00, then 17.30, 20.00. On Sunday it's the same - a game at 11.00, 13.00, 15.00, 17.30 and the 20.00.

Football for the TV audience not the poor fuckers who actually go. 3pm wouldn't be an issue because we'd all be fucked around from pillar to post by the tv schedulers. There might be one game left at 3pm on a Saturday if the TV companies had their way.

Are you totally ignoring the thread title just to be awakward then or what? It specifically asks about the 3pm blackout.

Football for match goers and the TV schedules are fucked anyway, there are 6 games tomorrow, 4 kick off at 3, one at 12:30 and one at 5:30

Sunday, due to the Europa we have 4 games, 2 are 2pm, 2 are 4:30

Next week it is Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.

One of the things that finally killed it for me was 2010 I had something stupid like 5 monday night games on the trot, it was the straw that broke the camels back. I'd already got sick to death of early kick offs late kick off. At least I only have an hour trip home, my mates who live in London were losing entire days for this shit.

[Scottymuser]

So you can watch wall to wall football from another country when you're in Spain.
 
Have you actually looked at the calendar for La Liga? Completely fucked by pay-per-view TV. Every week there's a Friday game, then on Saturday it's a game at 12.00, then 15.00, then 17.30, 20.00. On Sunday it's the same - a game at 11.00, 13.00, 15.00, 17.30 and the 20.00.

Football for the TV audience not the poor fuckers who actually go. 3pm wouldn't be an issue because we'd all be fucked around from pillar to post by the tv schedulers. There might be one game left at 3pm on a Saturday if the TV companies had their way.

why is that a bad thing?  Being able to watch 3-4 games back to back is great - the 11am kick off is awful though.  Also, if we were to stop the 3pm blackout, it wouldn't have the same impact over here - in fact what it could result in is fewer Fri/Mon games as instead the TV companies would have a 3pm kick off to show.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Isn't the reason for it the other way round, to stop the Tranmere supporter who might also support Liverpool, from staying at home and watching Liverpool on tv rather than going to watch Tranmere?

Lots of supporters of smaller clubs must also have a bigger club that they follow, and if they could stay in/go to the pub on a Saturday afternoon and watch the big club they might not go and watch the smaller club.

Something that they've all been able to do for years now.

[CraigDS]

I'd rather see something like non-3pm games limited to just a few set times over the weekend (so no shite like in Spain), then all the 3pm available together. Sky, BT, etc. all have the ability to do this as they are all filmed and comm'd on anyway. It should attract more viewers without the need for higher costs.

[Riquende]

So why does anyone buy BT or Sky packages? If you're right then people would just watch those games on illegal streams. They don't because most people don't work that way.

People who are relatively tech-savvy and don't worry too much about malware and viruses can't understand that others prefer to buy a guaranteed product from a trusted source.

I'm assuming that the people who still buy those packages do so because they have a broader interest in football, or even sport generally - my brother always has Sky Sports News rolling when I'm round, and has taken up a marked interest in other sports in the last few years (he's an Arsenal fan) so gets lots of content for the money. Then when tries to talk to me about boxing or golf my eyes glaze over as I just don't care.

I'm not saying that those packages should disappear, either. Just that I would pay a sum (maybe £10-15 p/m) for a service that let me legally do what I do now - watch every LFC game.

[mikey_LFC]

I think it makes most sense to copy the NFL scheduling where there are certain prime time tv slots every week that happen on separate days, but most still happen at the same time, they are all on the tv though. The majority of games happen on one day, so that the Saturday can be kept free for college games. That way you encourage grassroots / local football viewing and you allow all tv games to be shown. Win-win.

So here you could a Friday game, an early kick-off on Saturday, a late kick-off on Saturday and a Monday game, with the rest a 3pm, but on TV. Then Sunday could be free of football, for other activities.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

No.

The only way broadcasters will show 3 pm kickoffs is via internet streaming packages that cost more money.

So you'll be putting your money into their pockets. This will price out many.

A bit like VAR, be careful what you wish for. 

You're American so this doesn't concern you 

Seriously though,they (LFC) would need to price it at the low end or we'd all just keep watching our IPTV.

Won't be too long before the internet giants start looking to give all tv for free,you'd have to sign your privacy away but that information is worth more to them than any subscription fee.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

how much does this actually cost?

As little as £25 a year if you know where to look 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I think people are vastly over-estimating the number of people who watch on illegal streams at 3.00pm.

If anything I'd say it is underestimated,it has opened up the games to a whole new/older generation.I've set up iptv for every penstioner in our family plus a good few of their friends.


Everyone of them plans their week around LFCTV and the live games.The recent raids in Spain caused so many problems because they had over 50m accounts going through their panels & not all providers used them.