Topic: Climate Emergency is already here. How much worse it gets is still up to us (?)

[Garrus]

Which is exactly why the only way that this will ever work is when change is forced upon us by government policy.

And I would say it also lends some credence to the actions of groups like Insulate Britain.

People here are saying "how do they expect to win public support like that?!". When 74% of people "feel proud of what they are currently doing", and yet 46% think there is "No real need to change personal habits", only 32% are willing to decrease their energy consumption, only 25% are willing to favour public transport over cars and only 18% are willing to decrease their meat consumption, shows that you are onto a no-hoper if you are trying to win over public support for drastic changes. The disconnect is profound. The changes needed are inherently opposed to popular opinion - at least initially.

Unfortunately I don't see this happening until it's too late. You can see the visceral reaction of certain political parties and their base to policies that may help disenfranchised people and you can only imagine what is to come when they propose policies that may cause some short term pain!

Can't see anything being viable unless there's political consensus among all parties that proper action is needed. Even if there is said consensus, opportunists will be there to enter the fray by campaigning along the lines of "rights being taken away" etc.

[TSC]

China has announced a deal with the US.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/environment/cop26-live-china-and-us-agree-to-co-operate-to-e2-80-98actively-address-climate-change-e2-80-99/ar-AAQwVfQ

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

[Red Raw]

We have certainly known for a long time.

This is from 1856, which I believe is the earliest reference to CO₂ specifically having a warming effect on the climate. It is by amateuer scientist and women's rights campaigner Eunice Foote. She filled glass tubes with different gases including 'carbonic acid' (CO₂), left them in the sun and measured their temperatures.



This was three years before John Tyndall who many consider the father of climate science. Tyndall had more sophisticated apparatus and was able to determine that it was the outgoing infrared radiation that was the primary cause of the warming rather than the incoming solar radiation.

[jonnypb]

Climate activists have been deflating car tyres in Glasgow, apparently targeting 4x4’s and luxury cars. I’m sorry but when does anyone have any right to damage someone else’s property? Looking on social media some of the tyres haven’t just had the air let out, they’ve also been slashed  On one street cars were targeted that weren’t even ‘gas guzzling’ beasts, including a hybrid.

Was always against violence towards these people and never condoned the force that was aimed towards these people, but if anyone encounters any of these people blocking roads, or damaging personal property, then I have zero sympathy for them if anything were to happen now.

[Red-Soldier]

I find it interesting that the only posts that some make in this thread are to moan about climate activists.  Perhaps it says something about them.................

[Indomitable_Carp]

I find it interesting that the only posts that some make in this thread are to moan about climate activists.  Perhaps it says something about them.................

The disconnect in here is extreme. Considering there is a major international conference happening right now, and in this country no less, that will potentially help dictate the future of the planet for thousands of years to come, and yet is seeing primarily richer nations (including our own) continuing to side-step their commitments, and yet people want to moan about slashed SUV tires and condone violence against some of the few people seeing this crisis for what it is.

God help us all

[El Lobo]

There isn't a disconnect. Someone literally just said 'they shouldn't be slashing peoples tyres in protest' which isn't a particularly extreme opinion, and probably doesn't mean jonny doesn't give a shit about climate change. Just that you know....its a forum, and you can pick and choose what you comment on.

[Red-Soldier]

The disconnect in here is extreme. Considering there is a major international conference happening right now, and in this country no less, that will potentially help dictate the future of the planet for thousands of years to come, and yet is seeing primarily richer nations (including our own) continuing to side-step their commitments, and yet people want to moan about slashed SUV tires and condone violence against some of the few people seeing this crisis for what it is.

God help us all

Sounds like they would be in favour of this 

Cop26 police tactics creating atmosphere of fear, protesters say

Organisers of Glasgow march claim police risked ‘chaos’ by failing to adhere to agreed arrangements

Accumulated incidents of police intimidation, harassment and aggression towards activists at Cop26 are creating “an atmosphere of fear and repression” on the streets of Glasgow and have had a chilling effect on protest, campaigners and monitoring groups have said.

Organisers of Saturday’s Climate Justice march through Glasgow have also claimed that police risked “chaos” by failing to adhere to agreed arrangements, while Scottish immigrant groups and indigenous visitors have described their feelings of discomfort and threat prompted by “saturation policing” throughout the city.

The Guardian has collected first-hand accounts from activists across Glasgow, who have reported:

    Being threatened with arrest for unfurling a banner at a train station.

    One activist operating in a police liaison capacity was given an identifying blue bib to wear by organisers, but later had it confiscated by a police officer and was threatened with arrest for impersonating a police officer.

    The organiser at an activists’ campsite was threatened with arrest for “child neglect” after an officer witnessed families asking whether they could stay there.

    Police vans driving past the site in the early hours blasting an air horn and shining a spotlight with the apparent intention of disturbing sleep.

    One activist was reduced to tears after being followed into a men’s toilets by three officers.

Kat Hobbs, of the Network for Police Monitoring, said: “Police Scotland seem to have gone for a saturation approach to policing the Cop26 protests, and with so many officers and little for them to do, reports are flooding in of police intimidation, harassment and aggression. All of these small incidents add up to create an atmosphere of fear and repression, and have a chilling effect on the right to protest.”

These reports stand in stark contrast to Police Scotland’s repeated insistence that policing of protests would be “human rights-based” and “welcoming, friendly and proportionate”.

The assistant chief constable Gary Ritchie said officers had “enjoyed very positive engagement and constructive relationships with the vast majority of people” who had come to Glasgow to “have their voices heard and engage in peaceful protest”.

There is a view among some activists that mutual aid officers from English forces notorious for their heavy-handed tactics are undermining Police Scotland’s approach.

On Monday, occupants of a disused building in Glasgow that was squatted to provide emergency accommodation for activists accused the Metropolitan police and Welsh forces of trying to break into the site with batons drawn in the middle of the night, and reported that the situation was only calmed when Police Scotland officers arrived.

A spokesperson for Police Scotland confirmed that officers went to the building. However, Police Scotland denied that the operation was a raid or an attempt to force entry, or that a battering ram was used.

Police Scotland have said mutual aid officers are working under the command and control of their chief constable.

Before the summit beginning, many were expecting high-impact disruption from protest groups such as Extinction Rebellion. This has not transpired, with organisers saying they wanted to maintain focus on indigenous and youth voices, but despite this XR activists have told the Guardian of being regularly followed and harassed by police since their arrival in Glasgow.

During a protest against greenwashing last Wednesday, XR activists were kept stationary by a police cordon for several hours. During that period – which activists described as “kettling” because they were unable to leave, and which Police Scotland called “containment” – those inside the cordon reported having no access to food or water, and march stewards had to construct a makeshift toilet space with banners to allow people to relieve themselves above a drain.

Scotland’s justice minister, Keith Brown, when asked by the Scottish Greens at Holyrood on Tuesday about this and other reports of kettling, defended the police actions as “proportionate”. He said they had been discussed by the independent advisory group for Cop26, which was set up to inform the human rights-based approach. But others on the group have stressed that it is not a substitute for legally enforced scrutiny of police actions.

Campaigners have also raised concerns about the policing of the Climate Justice protest last Saturday, in which at least 100,000 people marched through Glasgow city centre. Organisers say they were promised there would be only blue-jacketed police liaison officers walking with marchers, while conventional yellow-jacketed officers would block roads as required.

But stewards described conventional police becoming increasingly interventionist as the march progressed, splitting up prearranged marching blocs without offering a reason and increasing tensions by stopping one section of marchers. After an initial delay in the first bloc of indigenous groups setting off, stewards claim that conventional officers harassed marchers, including indigenous elders who needed breaks along the walk, to catch up the lost time.

Quan Nguyen, the Scottish coordinator of the activist group Cop26 Coalition, said: “For the majority the march was still a positive experience but that was despite police actions, which made our job as organisers much harder. The irony was that the police caused much more disruption that day than any activists did.”

Ritchie thanked all police officers, protesters and stewards “Since the start of the conference police officers have had over 1,000 engagements with people who were protesting and have made fewer than 100 arrests. We have also helped ensure that two huge marches through the city were completed successfully,” said the assistant chief constable.

“With the exception of a tiny minority of protesters who were intent on creating conflict and compromising public safety, all of these events were peaceful, and as a result over the two weeks of conference we have made only a very small number of arrests.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/11/cop26-police-tactics-creating-atmosphere-of-fear-protesters-say

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

I find it interesting that the only posts that some make in this thread are to moan about climate activists.  Perhaps it says something about them.................

The disconnect in here is extreme. Considering there is a major international conference happening right now, and in this country no less, that will potentially help dictate the future of the planet for thousands of years to come, and yet is seeing primarily richer nations (including our own) continuing to side-step their commitments, and yet people want to moan about slashed SUV tires and condone violence against some of the few people seeing this crisis for what it is.

God help us all

It's becoming more and more clear that the vast majority of people have absolutely no idea of exactly where we are headed re the effects of climate change.

Everybody should be out on the streets.

But never mind heh, lets just carry on with business as usual, because of course the scientists will suddenly come up with a technology that will immediately reverse it all. 

[scatman]

There isn't a disconnect. Someone literally just said 'they shouldn't be slashing peoples tyres in protest' which isn't a particularly extreme opinion, and probably doesn't mean jonny doesn't give a shit about climate change. Just that you know....its a forum, and you can pick and choose what you comment on.

Apparently it's an extreme opinion to not want the tyres slashed on your car according to the posters above. Now some poor families have to pay for tyres on top of all the other shit in their lives and suddenly they are supposed to think, oh hey this extra hardship we are now paying for will help save the climate!

Of course the posters above will reply with the same shit they do to the road blockages and continue putting fingers in their ears whilst the general public starts to hate them more and more. The equivalent of this is Thornberry expecting white van men to vote for her party regardless of what she says about them and that went smoothly didn't it.

[Indomitable_Carp]

Apparently it's an extreme opinion to not want the tyres slashed on your car according to the posters above. Now some poor families have to pay for tyres on top of all the other shit in their lives and suddenly they are supposed to think, oh hey this extra hardship we are now paying for will help save the climate!

Of course the posters above will reply with the same shit they do to the road blockages and continue putting fingers in their ears whilst the general public starts to hate them more and more. The equivalent of this is Thornberry expecting white van men to vote for her party regardless of what she says about them and that went smoothly didn't it.

I don´t support the slashing of tyres, lets be clear. I just think if you are outraged enough at that to come on here shouting off about doing violence onto those slashing tyres, then you should probably be even more outraged about the fact we are heading to planetory collapse and our leaders are doing the grand total of fuck all about it - in comparison to which a slashed tire is a piss in the ocean. That and only that.

The General Public hating them is neither here nor there, because the "General Public" would have us heading the same way. If politicians put a ban on SUVs in cities, as they should, a lot of the General Public would be equally-if-not-more outraged.

And also lets be clear, poor families don´t drive SUVs. In fact many poor families don´t have cars. Yet I see more and more SUVs, and increasingly bigger at that, every time I go back to the UK. It is mental. In global terms that is the top 5% or so continuing to fuck over the rest of the planet for their own comfort and need to show off their wealth. That´s what a brand new SUV is for city dwellers - an accessory. And to be blunt, if you are someone still wanting an big SUV as an accessory for your school run knowing everything we now know, you are very unlikely to be changing your ways without having it completely forced upon you by policy - making your slashed tire and subsequent anger at tire slashers an irrelevance 

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

The General Public hating them is neither here nor there, because the "General Public" would have us heading the same way. If politicians put a ban on SUVs in cities, as they should, a lot of the General Public would be equally-if-not-more outraged.

I would imagine the general public hated the suffragettes.

As i said previously hardly anyone has got a grasp of just where we're headed unless we make a load of extreme changes very quickly. Lots of the necessary changes are going to appear to make people lives worse. This isn't actually the case with most of these changes, it's just that people have been persuaded that they need loads of crap that actually doesn't really improve their lives.

Doesn't really matter though as these changes aren't going to be made anyway.

[jonnypb]

I find it interesting that the only posts that some make in this thread are to moan about climate activists.  Perhaps it says something about them.................

You should maybe spend more time reading peoples posts instead of just skimming over them. I don’t think many people disagree with their cause, what I do disagree with is the way some of them are going about it…… but if you think it’s ok to slash tyres then that says a lot about you, or should I say not a lot.

I don´t support the slashing of tyres, lets be clear. I just think if you are outraged enough at that to come on here shouting off about doing violence onto those slashing tyres, then you should probably be even more outraged about the fact we are heading to planetory collapse and our leaders are doing the grand total of fuck all about it - in comparison to which a slashed tire is a piss in the ocean. That and only that.

The General Public hating them is neither here nor there, because the "General Public" would have us heading the same way. If politicians put a ban on SUVs in cities, as they should, a lot of the General Public would be equally-if-not-more outraged.

And also lets be clear, poor families don´t drive SUVs. In fact many poor families don´t have cars. Yet I see more and more SUVs, and increasingly bigger at that, every time I go back to the UK. It is mental. In global terms that is the top 5% or so continuing to fuck over the rest of the planet for their own comfort and need to show off their wealth. That´s what a brand new SUV is for city dwellers - an accessory. And to be blunt, if you are someone still wanting an big SUV as an accessory for your school run knowing everything we now know, you are very unlikely to be changing your ways without having it completely forced upon you by policy - making your slashed tire and subsequent anger at tire slashers an irrelevance

While you're correct that many poor people don't own cars, you need to pull your head out of the sand, you don't need to be rich these days to drive an SUV.  Yes many rich people do, but it's so stereotypical to think only the rich.  Plus it's not just SUV's that are the problem, in fact there are a lot of SUV type cars out there now that are hybrid and far better for the environment than your run of the mill family car.  Plus look at how many mobility cars there are in the UK, many of these people are on average to low incomes.  Do you realise that people can get an expensive car that is pretty uneconomical on this scheme for very little?  Having been in car sales in the past, the amount of people who own high value cars on lower incomes is huge because of the loans and deals offered by dealerships.  When I bought my last car I could have got an SUV type car for cheaper than my focus.  Personally I'd rather see Mrs X drive her Volvo XC60 Hybrid that she bought for comfort and to be flash on the school run, rather then Mrs Y in her 10 year old Ford Mondeo Diesel as the older Diesel is much worse for the environment, but lets not ruin your narrative  It's far too easy for people to be naive and think that the problem lies with just a few, when the problem is actually with a large majority of us.

[TSC]

Weird weather in Egypt

https://news.sky.com/story/scorpion-stings-kill-three-and-injure-hundreds-more-after-storms-hit-southern-egypt-12467857

[lobsterboy]

I don´t support the slashing of tyres, lets be clear. I just think if you are outraged enough at that to come on here shouting off about doing violence onto those slashing tyres, then you should probably be even more outraged about the fact we are heading to planetory collapse and our leaders are doing the grand total of fuck all about it - in comparison to which a slashed tire is a piss in the ocean. That and only that.

The General Public hating them is neither here nor there, because the "General Public" would have us heading the same way. If politicians put a ban on SUVs in cities, as they should, a lot of the General Public would be equally-if-not-more outraged.

And also lets be clear, poor families don´t drive SUVs. In fact many poor families don´t have cars. Yet I see more and more SUVs, and increasingly bigger at that, every time I go back to the UK. It is mental. In global terms that is the top 5% or so continuing to fuck over the rest of the planet for their own comfort and need to show off their wealth. That´s what a brand new SUV is for city dwellers - an accessory. And to be blunt, if you are someone still wanting an big SUV as an accessory for your school run knowing everything we now know, you are very unlikely to be changing your ways without having it completely forced upon you by policy - making your slashed tire and subsequent anger at tire slashers an irrelevance 

Well said. Its all diesel SUVs round our way. Audi, Merc, Porsche and Range Rovers.. Air stinks of dog shit each morning and evening. Its not dog shit though, its diesel fumes. Precious few hybrids though.

[WorldChampions]

I don´t support the slashing of tyres, lets be clear. I just think if you are outraged enough at that to come on here shouting off about doing violence onto those slashing tyres, then you should probably be even more outraged about the fact we are heading to planetory collapse and our leaders are doing the grand total of fuck all about it - in comparison to which a slashed tire is a piss in the ocean. That and only that.

The General Public hating them is neither here nor there, because the "General Public" would have us heading the same way. If politicians put a ban on SUVs in cities, as they should, a lot of the General Public would be equally-if-not-more outraged.

And also lets be clear, poor families don´t drive SUVs. In fact many poor families don´t have cars. Yet I see more and more SUVs, and increasingly bigger at that, every time I go back to the UK. It is mental. In global terms that is the top 5% or so continuing to fuck over the rest of the planet for their own comfort and need to show off their wealth. That´s what a brand new SUV is for city dwellers - an accessory. And to be blunt, if you are someone still wanting an big SUV as an accessory for your school run knowing everything we now know, you are very unlikely to be changing your ways without having it completely forced upon you by policy - making your slashed tire and subsequent anger at tire slashers an irrelevance 

It's entirely on the government. Many people need larger cars for family weekends away etc, so obviously they use the same car day to day.

They should be making electric more affordable than it is currently.

[Machae]

India being massive bellends, probably going to ask more money from the developed nations on top

[Andy82lfc]

India being massive bellends, probably going to ask more money from the developed nations on top

Absolute fucking joke isn’t it, the whole thing. All they want is some cheesy, smiley ‘look at how good we are’ deal to the world, even if it means India changing the working to get rid of coal from ‘phase out’ to ‘phase down’ which is even more of a piss take than the deal before. Essentially ‘we will bring it down some, you know we will try our best’.

Nothing will be done as there is too much money and power at stake an they don’t give a fuck and never will. That said just watch the joyous celebrations to come from a ‘historic agreement’ or some shit.

[Machae]

Greta was 100% correct, just another blah, blah  blah from the leading nations. If only there was a way where the only people affected by the catastrophe are the ones that did nothing to stop it, but we will all have to suffer

[Red-Soldier]

As with all these agreements, the proof is in the pudding.

A deal is better than no deal, but it is very disappointing!  They have just kicked the can down the road to next year!

Personally, I wont give up fighting and there really are some wonderful people and minds working to fix this issue.  However, the decision makers are failing their citizens spectacularly!

I don't think we will get below 2 C, which means we better start investing in resilience and adaptation measures fast!

[jonnypb]

Well said. Its all diesel SUVs round our way. Audi, Merc, Porsche and Range Rovers.. Air stinks of dog shit each morning and evening. Its not dog shit though, its diesel fumes. Precious few hybrids though.

Are you sure it’s dog shit that you’re smelling and not bull shit? 

India being massive bellends, probably going to ask more money from the developed nations on top

Yes it is disappointing, but we have to remember that the west is a lot more developed and it’s easier for us to say phase out, rather than phase down.  India’s industry very much depends on coal and is still a very much developing country. There has to be a clear strategy to move from fossil fuels to cleaner energy sources. Some nations will be able to do this a lot quicker than many others.  India probably does need investment from the outside for renewable energy to replace coal and that’s probably something that nations will need to do if we want India to get to a point where coal is phased out, rather than just phased down.

[BarryCrocker]

India being massive bellends, probably going to ask more money from the developed nations on top

Mad how they 'need' incentives to do better for the future when the country is currently a shit show.

NEW DELHI/MUMBAI, Nov 13 (Reuters) - Schools in New Delhi will be closed for a week and construction sites for four days, the Indian capital's chief minister said on Saturday, as the city tries to protect people in a worsening air pollution crisis.

Arvind Kejriwal said talks on a potential complete lockdown in the capital were also underway, but any decision would only be taken after consultation with the central government.

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/indias-top-court-says-new-delhi-air-pollution-situation-is-very-serious-2021-11-13/

[Shankly998]

Mad how they 'need' incentives to do better for the future when the country is currently a shit show.

India has completely f*cked themselves they will suffer far more from climate change than Europe will.


https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/oct/01/new-study-finds-incredibly-high-carbon-pollution-costs-especially-for-the-us-and-india

[Garrus]

Mad how they 'need' incentives to do better for the future when the country is currently a shit show.

Most of that pollution is mainly from farmers in nearby states burning their stubble which is always a problem during the winter months. Not saying there isn't a problem otherwise but this is fairly commonplace for a long time. Delhi's land locked location doesn't help either. Re-wiring India's dependence on coal to renewables isn't going to happen overnight, it's going to take a long time and at great cost.

People on here make it sound it's as simple as flicking a switch overnight.

Also, why shouldn't the developed nations do their bit? They're the ones who dragged us all here in the first place, raising their living standards by happily polluting the world carefree yet there doesn't seem to be much appetite for a reduction in their living standards while millions of poor in developing countries are still living day to day.

[Garrus]

India has completely f*cked themselves they will suffer far more from climate change than Europe will.


https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/oct/01/new-study-finds-incredibly-high-carbon-pollution-costs-especially-for-the-us-and-india

What's the solution? India is increasing its reliance on renewable energy to 50% by 2030. It is not going to happen overnight. It's easy for the west to talk about this but there are hundreds of millions of Indians who live day to day in a very modest existence. Imagine then being told by wealthy people that you can't look to better yourselves. Maybe if the rest of the world had a per capita output of the average Indian we wouldn't be in this mess.

[Garrus]

India being massive bellends, probably going to ask more money from the developed nations on top

Yes, massive bellendry. How dare those responsible for getting us in this mess pay some more? Do you think the rich should not pay their fair share of tax either?

[BarryCrocker]

As the worlds largest democracy India has more skin in the game than any other country.

During COP26, New Delhi partially closing down from pollution, the Ganges covered in toxic foam, Chennai completely flooded yet they ask for the watering down of the coal section from “phasing out” coal to merely “phasing down”. Why not ask for funding for alternate energy like nuclear, solar, wind?

[Garrus]

As the worlds largest democracy India has more skin in the game than any other country.

During COP26, New Delhi partially closing down from pollution, the Ganges covered in toxic foam, Chennai completely flooded yet they ask for the watering down of the coal section from “phasing out” coal to merely “phasing down”. Why not ask for funding for alternate energy like nuclear, solar, wind?

They have continuously asked for funding from wealthier nations.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-us-block-financial-support-climate-change-cop26/

Negotiations are ongoing over funding to help developing countries reduce their emissions and adapt to the effects of global warming. Wealthy countries promised to provide $100 billion a year in climate finance by 2020, but they missed the mark, and that target will only be reached in 2023.

https://www.bbc.com/news/57975275

The COP26 draft seeks to address that by urging rich countries to at least double the amount of money they give for adaptation to climate change by 2025 (from 2019 levels).

Proposals have also been discussed at the meeting for a longer term, more ambitious target for climate financing. Many developing countries want to see at least $1tn a year by 2030.

Finally, there are demands for a separate stream of finance dealing with loss and damage - effectively compensation for the harm done by all the greenhouse gases emitted by the industrialised world over the past 200 years.

But rich countries have already ruled out any language which suggests formal liability for damages which could run into trillions of dollars.

Experts say rich countries which have been responsible for huge amounts of carbon emissions need to go further.

Dr Alina Averchenkova, from the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment, says: "$100bn isn't going to do it - we need to move trillions in both public and private money".

"The pandemic has shown us it can be done when there is the political will.

By 2018, about three-quarters of the government money made available for climate action in developing countries was in the form of loans that need to be paid back, rather than grants that do not.

And that is a big problem in countries - many already heavily in debt - where Covid has made access to international funds even more pressing.

There has been an agreement at COP26 to give more money in the form of grants rather than loans, but the details of that commitment are limited.

"Developing countries cannot just rely on loans, so it is going to be really important that more climate finance is provided in grants," Dr Averchenkova says.

So it is the quality as well as the quantity of funding that matters.

And the message from the world's poorer countries is pretty simple - if you want ambitious climate targets, you are going to have to pay for them.


The problem with this is that in the wealthier countries you're going to see the electorate skin their political parties if they provide the required level of funding and then we'll be back at the start.

India are investing heavily in renewables. The problem is that it's a vast country where many people don't even have access to electricity for 24 hours a day and in some places they're lucky if they have any. It just can't be done overnight. The government has pledged to to try and generate at least 50% of its energy needs from renewables by the end of this decade. That's a target that is realistic and actually achievable.

India's renewable energy capacity has increased 250% in the last half decade and is on course to exceed its target GW capacity from renewable energy agreed in Paris. India was ranked third in the world for its renewable energy investments in 2020. It's not like there isn't anything being done to shift dependence from fossil fuels.

[Red-Soldier]

People on here make it sound it's as simple as flicking a switch overnight.

Also, why shouldn't the developed nations do their bit? They're the ones who dragged us all here in the first place, raising their living standards by happily polluting the world carefree yet there doesn't seem to be much appetite for a reduction in their living standards while millions of poor in developing countries are still living day to day.

I agree.  Not sure if anyone in here has argued against this.

Developing counties were promised 100 billion a year to help transition away from fossil fuels > a decade ago.  They have yet to receive this money.

[Red-Soldier]

'Utter betrayal': civil society groups furious at Cop26 outcome

The Cop26 Coalition, a group of some of the world’s biggest environmental organisations and civil society groups, has issued a damning statement on the outcome of the summit.

Spokesman Asad Rehman, who gave a blistering speech in the conference centre as part of the closing plenary, said:

“This agreement is an utter betrayal of the people. It is hollow words on the climate emergency from the richest countries, with an utter disregard of science and justice. The UK government greenwash and PR have spun us off course.

“The rich refused to do their fair share, with more empty words on climate finance and turning their back on the poorest who are facing a crisis of Covid coupled with economic and climate apartheid - all caused by the actions of the richest.

“It’s immoral for the rich to sit there talking about their future children and grandchildren, when the children of the south are suffering now. This Cop has failed to keep 1.5C alive, and set us on a pathway to 2.5C. All while claiming to act as they set the planet on fire.

“At Cop26, the richest got what they came here for, and the poorest leave with nothing. The people are rising up across the globe to hold our governments and corporations to account - and make them act.”

[Indomitable_Carp]

I just don´t get it. $100 billion a year between all the combined OECD surely doesn´t seem that much, and should be the bare minimum starting point for this conference? Split it proportionallly based on the size of the economies. Just for reference, the combined GDP of the OECD is $54.2 trillion.

Is the issue the indecision on how best to utilise the $100 billion, or the reluctance to put that investment in in the first place?

[Andy82lfc]

Nothing will be done as there is too much money and power at stake an they don’t give a fuck and never will. That said just watch the joyous celebrations to come from a ‘historic agreement’ or some shit.

Mr Sharma said that his role was to "build consensus" on the final deal.
He added: "I wouldn't describe what we did yesterday as a failure - it is a historic achievement."

So predictable it’s pathetic.

[Garrus]

I just don´t get it. $100 billion a year between all the combined OECD surely doesn´t seem that much, and should be the bare minimum starting point for this conference? Split it proportionallly based on the size of the economies. Just for reference, the combined GDP of the OECD is $54.2 trillion.

Is the issue the indecision on how best to utilise the $100 billion, or the reluctance to put that investment in in the first place?

If there's a reluctance on how the money would be invested, I'm sure the countries can come together and form an independent panel/organisation that could carry out regular audits and release funds only if they're being used as agreed.

[Machae]

Yes, massive bellendry. How dare those responsible for getting us in this mess pay some more? Do you think the rich should not pay their fair share of tax either?

Yes I do, don't think anyone has argued otherwise. Absolutely, pay more tax and developed nations should pay their bit

Re: India putting a late spanner in the works when they had plenty of time to raise objections before.

Maybe stop this fascination with Nuclear arms, space races and help build a better India

[Garrus]

Yes I do, don't think anyone has argued otherwise. Absolutely, pay more tax and developed nations should pay their bit

Re: India putting a late spanner in the works when they had plenty of time to raise objections before.

Maybe stop this fascination with Nuclear arms, space races and help build a better India

India did make their intentions clear a couple of weeks ago though when they laid out their plan to transition half their dependence to renewals though.

As for nuclear arms, nothing is going to happen since she has hostile neighbours on either side similarly armed. Space program? Minimal expenditure in the grand scheme of things (just over a dollar per person per year) and generates revenue and employment. India is going to do her bit but at the moment it is just not practically feasible to both cater for their population and limit fossil fuel usage.

[Machae]

Well there we are, nothing will really change then and the world will continue to suffer and future generations will blame us for our failures. Cost wise, it'll be far more catastrophic in monetary and social perspective.

[Garrus]

Well there we are, nothing will really change then and the world will continue to suffer and future generations will blame us for our failures. Cost wise, it'll be far more catastrophic in monetary and social perspective.

I don't disagree. It will definitely be worse. It's just incredibly difficult to see a practical solution that satisfies everyone involved. The developed nations don't want to pay and the developing nations don't want to pause economic development.

[Riquende]

I always shrug at these "commitments to do a thing by 2050, or 2070" and all that nonsense. The country's current government gets to make a nice vote-winning pledge whilst leaving it up to future governments to actually try to implement things. And then if you're lucky enough that the opposition are in power when that year finally rolls around, and the target hasn't been hit, it's free political capital.

There is no solution to the crisis that doesn't involve some sort of mass global eco-coup. The actual plan of the current global 'elites' (and I use that term to group together corporate and political actors, not as some sort of conspiracy nut) is to insulate themselves against the slow destruction of the planet for as long as possible and let the poors end up in the desolated wastes warring over water.

[The_Nomad]

There is a chance, as Stephen Hawking thought, that we’ve already crossed the Rubicon and set in motion a thermal runaway. As a species, we are genetically hardwired for selfishness and limited to thinking about timescales within our life expectancies. I don’t think anything will change significantly. The only thing we can hope for is people everywhere deciding NOT to have children as life gets harder and harder due to climate change. Imagine if the human population plunged some 30-40% in the next 50 years. Fewer people buying stupid unnecessary shit because, well, the earth has a way of setting its own boundary conditions.

Right now, it’s just everyone fighting their way to get into first class and drink their glass of champagne while the aircraft is literally going down in flames.