Topic: Climate Emergency is already here. How much worse it gets is still up to us (?)

[RainbowFlick]

Not sure I ever saw BLM protestors knowingly block a road as paramedics pleaded with them to move so they could get their ambulance through.

that's not my point. right-wingers were saying "this isn't how to protest" when people (rightfully) were taking down statues of slave owners or even just gathering in London because they thought it was a "mob".

yes the ambulance stuff was very bad but it's a slippery slope of criticising protests.

[El Lobo]

that's not my point. right-wingers were saying "this isn't how to protest" when people (rightfully) were taking down statues of slave owners or even just gathering in London because they thought it was a "mob".

You see the difference between protesting by ripping down statues of slave traders and protesting by blocking vehicles, including ambulances, though, right?

[CraigDS]

that's not my point. right-wingers were saying "this isn't how to protest" when people (rightfully) were taking down statues of slave owners or even just gathering in London because they thought it was a "mob".

yes the ambulance stuff was very bad but it's a slippery slope of criticising protests.

Yeah but you can't compare these protestors to BLM if you don't compare the full actions each have taken.

I agree it's one thing criticising protestors in general, but it's a whole other when those protestors are actually disrupting the (non-police) emergency services and endangering lives. That's night and day compared to pulling down statues of slave owners.

There are 100% still levels of right and wrong when it comes to protesting.

[Andy82lfc]

I don't necessarily agree with Insulate Britain's methods mainly because it impacts workers the most, as opposed to governments or corporations, but it's really bizarre how many people are just calling for violent acts or heavy-handed policing to be done on these people.

Priti Patel is looking smugly as people start viewing protestors as a hindrance and nuisance.

Ultimately what they're protesting for is right - calling for them to be battered on the street or running them over with a Range Rover is very questionable behaviour.

People were similarly questioning the methods used for BLM protests too, don't forget.

100% mate.

I don't necessarily agree with their methods but I do agree what they are trying to achieve is firstly hugely important and two never ever ever going to been taken a blind bit of notice of by protesting quietly outside westminster.

We have learnt over the past few years from these governments that they couldn't care less about what people have to say, they just want them to protest in some quiet corner and go away. So what choice to people have? The BLM, Gilets Jaunes and Chilean protests for example while mainly peaceful also used varying methods to gather attention, again not saying I agree with them at all but I understand why because most of the time nothing gets changed.

[RainbowFlick]

You see the difference between protesting by ripping down statues of slave traders and protesting by blocking vehicles, including ambulances, though, right?

there are a lot of anecdotes like these, but London Ambulance Trust themselves have said that story from a few weeks ago wasn't true and no ambulance was delayed.

there are a lot of LBC News-style anecdotes being thrown around lately which are just false. there were also a lot of LBC news-style anecdotes being shared around BLM protests which certain parts of society vehemently believe to this day, despite being demonstrably false.

[CraigDS]

there are a lot of anecdotes like these, but London Ambulance Trust themselves have said that story from a few weeks ago wasn't true and no ambulance was delayed.

I mean there was literally a video of an ambulance stuck in the queue of traffic and a paramedic stood in front of the protestors asking them to move.

It MAY not have been on the way to an emergency, which I guess is what the trust comment's were about (I haven't seen them so unsure) but for sure that video above exists.

[RainbowFlick]

I mean there was literally a video of an ambulance stuck in the queue of traffic and a paramedic stood in front of the protestors asking them to move.

It MAY not have been on the way to an emergency, which I guess is what the trust comment's were about (I haven't seen them so unsure) but for sure that video above exists.

ah yes an isolated clip which GB News has conveniently run with versus the word of the actual ambulance trust? i'm not saying the incident didn't happen, but it doesn't warrant the sudden panic people seem to be having which has been boosted by GB News, the Express and the other rags.

just like the 50 second clip of the Range Rover woman shouting about her kids which conveniently skipped the part when she literally ran into them with an untaxed car - and somehow ended up getting a whole feature in the s*n as some sort of working class saviour.

[RainbowFlick]

100% mate.

I don't necessarily agree with their methods but I do agree what they are trying to achieve is firstly hugely important and two never ever ever going to been taken a blind bit of notice of by protesting quietly outside westminster.

We have learnt over the past few years from these governments that they couldn't care less about what people have to say, they just want them to protest in some quiet corner and go away. So what choice to people have? The BLM, Gilets Jaunes and Chilean protests for example while mainly peaceful also used varying methods to gather attention, again not saying I agree with them at all but I understand why because most of the time nothing gets changed.

exactly. direct action like this is necessary. it might inconvenience some of us, but it's a valid form of protest and shouldn't warrant people saying they'd beat them up or they should be ran over or other nasty shite.

it's been a very interesting couple weeks of seeing a lot of people bite into very right-wing attitudes with these protestors who ultimately are good people who are fighting something that impacts marginalised communities and the working class the most.

[El Lobo]

ah yes an isolated clip which GB News has conveniently run with versus the word of the actual ambulance trust? i'm not saying the incident didn't happen, but it doesn't warrant the sudden panic people seem to be having which has been boosted by GB News, the Express and the other rags.

just like the 50 second clip of the Range Rover woman shouting about her kids which conveniently skipped the part when she literally ran into them with an untaxed car - and somehow ended up getting a whole feature in the s*n as some sort of working class saviour.

Its not really like that at all though is it?

[jonnypb]

exactly. direct action like this is necessary. it might inconvenience some of us, but it's a valid form of protest and shouldn't warrant people saying they'd beat them up or they should be ran over or other nasty shite.

it's been a very interesting couple weeks of seeing a lot of people bite into very right-wing attitudes with these protestors who ultimately are good people who are fighting something that impacts marginalised communities and the working class the most.

There's been many people miss hospital/doctors appointments, people have been late for work which for many results in loss of pay, trades people have been impacted, people have missed job interviews, people who require home care have had visits delayed.

While I agree with what they're protesting about, I don't agree with the way that they're doing it.

I'm sure if you had of been directly inconvenienced, you'd have a different view on their direct action.

[Elmo!]

There's been many people miss hospital/doctors appointments, people have been late for work which for many results in loss of pay, trades people have been impacted, people have missed job interviews, people who require home care have had visits delayed.

While I agree with what they're protesting about, I don't agree with the way that they're doing it.

I'm sure if you had of been directly inconvenienced, you'd have a different view on their direct action.

Would you feel the same if the same consequences were caused by a union going on strike rather than a protest?

[jonnypb]

Would you feel the same if the same consequences were caused by a union going on strike rather than a protest?

How is that even remotely similar?  Is a Union strike going to go and block the M25 unannounced?  Would a union stop people from getting to a job interview, or stop someone from getting their home care?

A union strike is planned, people can plan ahead for this, it's not an unforeseen issue.

[Elmo!]

How is that even remotely similar?  Is a Union strike going to go and block the M25 unannounced?  Would a union stop people from getting to a job interview, or stop someone from getting their home care?

A union strike is planned, people can plan ahead for this, it's not an unforeseen issue.

It's not perfectly analogous, but all the things you listed could have been caused by a strike - for example public transport workers striking. I'm just curious if you feel the same about that.

[CraigDS]

It's not perfectly analogous, but all the things you listed could have been caused by a strike - for example public transport workers striking. I'm just curious if you feel the same about that.

He's already pointed out how it's different though, in that they are planned and you can alter your plans accordingly.

[Andy82lfc]

Would you feel the same if the same consequences were caused by a union going on strike rather than a protest?

Or a road closure because of gas works, electric works, sewage works, maintenance works, night closure on a motorway diverting through small towns, resurfacing of a road, closures due to a bike race, foot race, wheelchair race,  protest, film crew blocking the road (this one I actually saw an ambulance having to do a 3 point turn and go back the way it came just last week by Sefton park) many of which come with little to no notice of them happening.

[Elmo!]

He's already pointed out how it's different though, in that they are planned and you can alter your plans accordingly.

But as Andy has pointed out, all sorts of things happen all the time that cause these things, and Jonny has already said he agrees with what they are protesting for.

[jonnypb]

But as Andy has pointed out, all sorts of things happen all the time that cause these things, and Jonny has already said he agrees with what they are protesting for.

Yes I agree with what they're protesting for, but not how they're going about it.

A gas leak could shut a road and that can't be planned for and unavoidable.  However, some of the other things Andy mentions like resurfacing works, road closures due to a bike race/run etc are all planned for in advance and warning given, therefore the majority of people can make alternative arrangements if needed.  What these protestors are doing are unplanned and totally avoidable.  They're stopping working people from going about their daily business, costing people money, they're also potentially putting peoples lives at risk if an emergency vehicle is blocked.

[Elmo!]

Yes I agree with what they're protesting for, but not how they're going about it.

A gas leak could shut a road and that can't be planned for and unavoidable.  However, some of the other things Andy mentions like resurfacing works, road closures due to a bike race/run etc are all planned for in advance and warning given, therefore the majority of people can make alternative arrangements if needed.  What these protestors are doing are unplanned and totally avoidable.  They're stopping working people from going about their daily business, costing people money, they're also potentially putting peoples lives at risk if an emergency vehicle is blocked.

The problem is they can't plan these protests like a union can arrange a strike so people can make other plans - it wouldn't work otherwise.

[CraigDS]

But as Andy has pointed out, all sorts of things happen all the time that cause these things, and Jonny has already said he agrees with what they are protesting for.

I don't think anyone disagrees with what they are protesting for, or at least the bigger picture of climate change anyway, but that's not really what's being questioned.

[Elmo!]

I don't think anyone disagrees with what they are protesting for, or at least the bigger picture of climate change anyway, but that's not really what's being questioned.

I know, that's my point. Given we all agree with what they are protesting for, and the inconveniences being caused happen all the time for all sorts of reasons, I'm not sure what all the vitriol is for (given the whole ambulance thing doesn't seem to have happened).

[scatman]

I doubt they have much public support, certainly from what I've seen on social media, they've basically fucked up. People absolutely hate them. "All these old white retired people stopping people from going about their lives. Somehow didn't feel like protesting when they themselves had to work and weren't retired."

The Canning Town event was a similar turning point for ER, they were well supported in their protests by the general public, it literally dropped to 1 in 10 after that one event.

[TSC]

Floods in Glasgow ahead of COP26

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-weather-glasgow-hit-by-floods-just-days-before-city-hosts-cop26-with-warning-of-more-heavy-rain-to-come-12446422

[thejbs]

Never mind insulate Britain road closures, climate change will be a proper unending and catastrophic inconvenience.

Too many cars on the road anyway. No one needs a 2 tonne, 25mpg off-roader to do a school run.

[ianburns252]

I doubt they have much public support, certainly from what I've seen on social media, they've basically fucked up. People absolutely hate them. "All these old white retired people stopping people from going about their lives. Somehow didn't feel like protesting when they themselves had to work and weren't retired."

The Canning Town event was a similar turning point for ER, they were well supported in their protests by the general public, it literally dropped to 1 in 10 after that one event.

Its a tricky balance to be struck - I don't think there are many who are against the overall support (although there will be a lot for whom the core reasoning behind it is not clear - Insulate Britain could as easily be about building standards or protecting the older generations during harsh winters) but there are a high proportion who dislike the methods/type of person protesting.

Strikes and protests are meant to disrupt/cause inconvenience but typically you think of striking miners, factory workers etc where the disruption hits the owners pocket - once you start impacting the common person it would seem to very quickly have the polar opposite effect to what is intended and it turns people off.

Even if someone isn't personally impeded by them, there is often secondary feelings around how it is taking up an already stretched police force's time, potentially preventing ambulances or other emergency vehicles getting to places.

They have successfully got some headlines and people know they exist, but what have the actually achieved? What tangible things do they want doing and how much closer are those to being a reality?

Secondly, and this goes for XR as well, people at the protests often come across as unlikeable or unrelateable - it often comes across as some sort of avant garde art piece. There are plenty who are like the carpenter who was on Talk News the other day and are the kind of person many would find some common ground with, but there are just as many, if not more, who are as far removed from those they are meant to engage with that it turns people off.

There was an article the other day (I'll look it up and link it when I can) talking to one of the IB protestors and they were complaining that no one had been locked up yet. Police take them away, take their details, and then back into the wild they go and apparently this is a problem?

I think the gist was that they were hoping to clog the courts with people who could be your gran as that would look bad on the police and govt prosecuting those sorts of people and they have not been able to because the police have not been heavy handed about it.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I've got work and the like to worry about and even for something minor, if I get banged up and that it is not going to do me any favours and so them complaining kind of adds to the feeling that they are "not like us".

[Red-Soldier]

Floods in Glasgow ahead of COP26

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-weather-glasgow-hit-by-floods-just-days-before-city-hosts-cop26-with-warning-of-more-heavy-rain-to-come-12446422

Some Glasgow residents have tweeted that several roads including Maryhill Road, Byres Road and Duke Street are submerged in water and some vehicles are stuck.

Fucking stupid water blocking our roads, stopping people going to work and carrying on with their business - how inconsiderate.............

[Red-Soldier]

World is failing to make changes needed to avoid climate breakdown, report finds

Pace of emissions reductions must be increased significantly to keep global heating to 1.5C

Every corner of society is failing to take the “transformational change” needed to avert the most disastrous consequences of the climate crisis, with trends either too slow or in some cases even regressing, according to a major new global analysis.

Across 40 different areas spanning the power sector, heavy industry, agriculture, transportation, finance and technology, not one is changing quickly enough to avoid 1.5C in global heating beyond pre-industrial times, a critical target of the Paris climate agreement, according to the new Systems Change Lab report.

The dangerously sluggish pace of decarbonization, made plain just days before the start of crucial UN climate talks in Scotland, further highlights how the world is badly off track in its attempts to curb climate breakdown.

Atmospheric levels of planet-heating gases hit a new record high last year, and the UN has warned the amount of fossil fuel extraction planned by countries “vastly exceeds” the limit needed to keep below the 1.5C threshold.

“We need to pull out the stops in every sector, to transform our power generation, the diets we have, how we manage land and more, all simultaneously,” said Kelly Levin, chief of science at the Bezos Earth Fund, one of the report’s co-authors. “We need transformational change and it’s very clear the trends aren’t moving fast enough.”

From renewable electricity generation to meat consumption to public financing for fossil fuels, the report found that no indicator was showing the required progress to cut emissions in half this decade before eliminating greenhouse gases completely by 2050, which would give the world a chance to keep below 1.5C.

Coal needs to be phased out five times faster than it is now, according to the analysis, while the pace of reforestation needs to be three times faster. Coastal wetlands need to be restored nearly three times faster, climate finance needs to grow 13 times faster and the energy intensity of buildings needs to drop at a rate almost three times faster than now.

In wealthy countries across Europe and North America, the consumption of beef needs to reduce 1.5 times faster than it is now. In these countries with high meat consumption and plentiful alternatives, cutting back to the equivalent of one and a half burgers per person a week would significantly reduce demand for land and greenhouse gas emissions.

There are some glimmers of promise: the global share of electricity generated from solar and wind has grown at 15% annually over the past five years and renewables have become the most cost-effective replacement for coal in most places. Electric vehicle adoption is on the rise, reaching more than 4% of worldwide car sales last year.

The report also found there was a good chance, given proper support, of “exponential” progress in technology such as the direct removal of carbon dioxide from the air, which scientists have said will probably have to be deployed on a grand scale to reduce worsening climate disasters. But overall the picture is of a world moving too slowly to confront the climate crisis.

“While things are heading in the right direction in some areas, we are moving too slowly to avoid 1.5C,” said Sophie Boehm, a climate researcher at World Resources Institute and report co-author. “If that continues, we will fall woefully short of the goals to avoid disastrous climate change. It’s very worrying we are not on track for any of these target areas.”

While progress is lagging in most places, three areas in particular – cement production, steel making and efforts to place a fee on carbon emissions – are stagnating, the report found. A further three – emissions from agriculture, the share of trips made by cars and the deforestation rate – are moving in the wrong direction.

“We need complete u-turns from these areas,” said Levin. “With climate change you can’t just head in the right direction, you need to do it at pace. Without that, we will reach disastrous tipping points.”

There is little optimism that countries will make the required commitments to salvage this situation at the Glasgow talks, known as Cop26, with Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, the British prime minister, admitting it is “touch and go” whether the required action will be taken. John Kerry, who is Joe Biden’s climate envoy, has said there will likely be “gaps” in emissions-cutting plans put forward by governments.

Should the world breach 1.5C in global heating, the planet will be hit by an increasing frequency of deadly heatwaves, ruinous storms, disastrous flooding and crop failures, wiping trillions of dollars from economic activity and forcing the displacement of millions of people. António Guterres, secretary general of the UN, has warned the world is risking a “hellish future” through its lack of urgency to confront the crisis.

“We have the technology for the majority of these areas to decarbonize,” said Bill Hare, chief executive of Climate Analytics, an organization that provided input to the new report. “What we need is political will, and for governments to catch up with the opportunity this transition will bring for their economies.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/28/world-failing-make-changes-avoid-climate-breakdown-report

But, fuck those "Insulate Wankers"........

[El Lobo]

I doubt they have much public support, certainly from what I've seen on social media, they've basically fucked up. People absolutely hate them. "All these old white retired people stopping people from going about their lives. Somehow didn't feel like protesting when they themselves had to work and weren't retired."

The Canning Town event was a similar turning point for ER, they were well supported in their protests by the general public, it literally dropped to 1 in 10 after that one event.

This is the thing. Read the room. This country has voted the Tories in four times in a row, they voted to leave the EU. If you block their gas guzzlers on the school run they're far more likely to go home and make a big fire in the garden and then buy a Humvee than they are are to actually consider their carbon footprint and make positive changes.

[Elmo!]

I don't think it matters that they are unpopular - the message will be sinking in regardless.

All th emost succesful protests in history were unpopular and faced a backlash - look at civil rights protestors for example.

I'm not saying this is going to end the same, just that being unpopular initially does not necessarily mean it's not working.

[Andy82lfc]

I don't think it matters that they are unpopular - the message will be sinking in regardless.

All th emost succesful protests in history were unpopular and faced a backlash - look at civil rights protestors for example.

I'm not saying this is going to end the same, just that being unpopular initially does not necessarily mean it's not working.

I agree and the same as the other protests I noted earlier they all started by kicking up a riot, disruption or caused provocation in some way, if nothing else is working sometimes it's the only way to get people to listen.

The message has spread although the problem they face at the moment is people not fully understanding the movement and large support, as we know one of the main reasons is, unlike gilets jaunes or the Chilean protests for example, the guy/gal on the street doesn't see any effect from it yet and won't until it's too late, so there is no relation for them. The only relatable thing people see is 'I'd be fuming if they blocked my way to work', as we have all been madder than a pissed on chicken when some road block for some ridiculous reason has caused us a big delay or sometimes only small.

I understand it though in the sense that there are not many 'peaceful' ways to generate chaos and ultimately get on the news to spread that the cause is for a much greater good compared to blocking a road.

[Snail]

I hope that dickhead who sprayed ink in people's faces has been arrested. I'm worried someone is going to get seriously hurt.

[gazzalfc]

I don't think it matters that they are unpopular - the message will be sinking in regardless.

All th emost succesful protests in history were unpopular and faced a backlash - look at civil rights protestors for example.

I'm not saying this is going to end the same, just that being unpopular initially does not necessarily mean it's not working.

Civil disobedience and 'peaceful' protest is all well and good and if their aims were realistic then fine.

But 100% social housing insulation by 2025 and a plan by the end of this year to insulate every single home in the UK by 2030 just isn't going to happen. It's just not physically possible no matter how much money you throw at it. Some houses aren't capable of having cavity wall insulation, underfloor or roof insulation. Listed buildings can't have the adjustments made legally.

My house has a EPC rating of D (you can get this when you have your home survey done and it's listed on the Gov.uk website). We produce 3.6 tonnes of CO2 a year (which is well below the UK property average of 6 tonnes of CO2). If spend £14k on cavity wall insulation, £6k on solar water heating and £8k on solar panels on the roof then we can move to a B rating. That would save us approx £200 in energy bills per year (not factoring in energy price rises). So for it to financially viable for us it would take 140 years.

Realistic expectations should have been for all social housing to reach a D EPC rating (a house can be legally rented from an E rating) and all new builds to have a minimum EPC rating of B/C (with a government bonus for homes that reach a A/B rating).

Their cause is fruitless to begin with. Just breaking it down into facts shows that even the average homeowner cannot achieve what they want to achieve.

[Red-Soldier]

Civil disobedience and 'peaceful' protest is all well and good and if their aims were realistic then fine.

But 100% social housing insulation by 2025 and a plan by the end of this year to insulate every single home in the UK by 2030 just isn't going to happen.

It certainly wont with defeatist language like yours, no.

Why bother, hey........?

The UK is full of poorly insulated houses, and new builds are still going up without the required features.  The regulations aren't fit for purpose!

It's easy to solve issues when there is the political will to do so........

I'm glad there are people out there with stronger wills than you fighting this (including myself).

[Elmo!]

Civil disobedience and 'peaceful' protest is all well and good and if their aims were realistic then fine.

But 100% social housing insulation by 2025 and a plan by the end of this year to insulate every single home in the UK by 2030 just isn't going to happen. It's just not physically possible no matter how much money you throw at it. Some houses aren't capable of having cavity wall insulation, underfloor or roof insulation. Listed buildings can't have the adjustments made legally.

My house has a EPC rating of D (you can get this when you have your home survey done and it's listed on the Gov.uk website). We produce 3.6 tonnes of CO2 a year (which is well below the UK property average of 6 tonnes of CO2). If spend £14k on cavity wall insulation, £6k on solar water heating and £8k on solar panels on the roof then we can move to a B rating. That would save us approx £200 in energy bills per year (not factoring in energy price rises). So for it to financially viable for us it would take 140 years.

Realistic expectations should have been for all social housing to reach a D EPC rating (a house can be legally rented from an E rating) and all new builds to have a minimum EPC rating of B/C (with a government bonus for homes that reach a A/B rating).

Their cause is fruitless to begin with. Just breaking it down into facts shows that even the average homeowner cannot achieve what they want to achieve.

My point is that no matter how much they have pissed people off, as shown here they've got people thinking and talking about insulation - and that it is more important than the govenrments heat conductor plans (which require really good insulation anyway).

[Red-Soldier]

My point is that no matter how much they have pissed people off, as shown here they've got people thinking about insulation - and that it is more important than the govenrments heat conductor plans (which require really good insulation anyway).

Yep.  The heat pump plan is a load of shite!

[gazzalfc]

It certainly wont with defeatist language like yours, no.

Why bother, hey........?

The UK is full of poorly insulated houses, and new builds are still going up without the required features.  The regulations aren't fit for purpose!

It's easy to solve issues when there is the political will to do so........

I'm glad there are people out there with stronger wills than you fighting this (including myself).

So how do you solve it? What metric do you put on it being 'solved'? Moving all houses to an EPC rating of C or above?

(this isn't me being facetious. Insulate Britain haven't even put a metric on their cause) 

Do you put the responsibility of meeting that target on homeowners, landlords, property development companies, local councils, central government?

Should that come at the expense of taxation? Should that taxation come at a local level from wages, council tax or from central government? A stamp duty based on EPC ratings?

Do you put it on 3rd parties who end up using sub-standard materials and you end up with cladding crisis that came from Grenfell?

[Red-Soldier]

So how do you solve it? What metric do you put on it being 'solved'? Moving all houses to an EPC rating of C or above?

Yes.  I think the main point is that nobody is actaully sitting down and having the conversation.

There were plenty of schemes under the last Labout government for it, but they all disappeared after 2010.

You have to make it cost effective for people to transition.

[jonnypb]

Yes.  I think the main point is that nobody is actaully sitting down and having the conversation.

There were plenty of schemes under the last Labout government for it, but they all disappeared after 2010.

You have to make it cost effective for people to transition.

This is the big stumbling block, for many it just isn't possible to make it cost effective for people to transition.  The government can provide grants etc, but that has to be paid for somehow.  There's only so much that can be done for older houses, if the cost outweighs the benefit then we should really be focusing more on more achievable things.  If you look at a lot of new builds they're shocking quality, too many building firms are more interested in quantity over quality.  1000's of new homes are being built each year to a sub standard quality.  I know someone who moved into a new build and they paid for a snagging expert who picked up over 200 issues, which by all accounts was fairly common.  Some of the issues included missing insulation in the loft, walls out of plumb, fake weep holes (which in turn could cause damp issues).  Local building control inspectors sign these houses off, if we don't start cracking down on this then we're just adding to the existing problem.

[Red-Soldier]

This is the big stumbling block, for many it just isn't possible to make it cost effective for people to transition. The government can provide grants etc, but that has to be paid for somehow.  There's only so much that can be done for older houses, if the cost outweighs the benefit

Deflection, delay and endless talks about costs - all current weapons in the arsenal of the climate denier!  Cost of inaction is far greater than cost of action.

Both old and new houses need to be brought up to standard, pointless doing one, without doing the other.

We need BIG government on this, that's why nothing good will happen whilst the current bastards are in charge!

Here's an idea where we can get some of the money from:


$427bn a year lost to tax abuse by firms and rich individuals, study finds
This article is more than 11 months old

Tax Justice Network calls on G20 to tighten rules, saying system is ‘programmed to fail’

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/20/427bn-a-year-lost-to-tax-abuse-by-firms-and-rich-individuals-study-finds


Offshore havens and hidden riches of world leaders and billionaires exposed in unprecedented leak

The Pandora Papers reveal the inner workings of a shadow economy that benefits the wealthy and well-connected at the expense of everyone else.

https://www.icij.org/investigations/pandora-papers/global-investigation-tax-havens-offshore/

[jonnypb]

Deflection, delay and endless talks about costs - all current weapons in the arsenal of the climate denier!  Cost of inaction is far greater than cost of action.

Both old and new houses need to be brought up to standard, pointless doing one, without doing the other.

It’s far from pointless, a lot of people don’t realise the undertaking required for older houses.

No one is saying do nothing with older house, far from it, but you’re living in a dream world if you think they can be brought up to spec in a timely and cost effective manor.

A few years ago a neighbour got their 1930’s house pumped full of cavity wall insulation, even tho friends advised them not to, but apparently the cowboy firm knew best. Last year serious damp issues formed all from the result of having cavity wall insulation pumped into their cavities. Old houses do not have cavity wall insulation as they were designed that way. Putting cavity wall insulation into these house, which many cowboy firms do, can cause serious issues.  In the last 5 years they’ve had the attic properly insulated, new windows and a new boiler, yet their EPC rating is still very low and way off what a new build can achieve. Interested to know how you think this can be improved tho!

It’s very easy for people to sit behind keyboards and say this needs done, that needs done, you can get the money from here and there…….. if only things were that simple 

[cdav]

Think there will have to be regulation of mortgages soon- so you'd get a cheaper rate buying a more energy efficient house. Older ones would fall in value/ need to have work doing to them to improve their efficiency to retain their value