Topic: Those chants

[Solomon Grundy]

That would be the Manchester United who had a near miss during the 1957 semi final at Hillsborough and played Forest in the 1989 6th round. If they drawn Forest a round later their fans would have been on the Leppings lane terraces in 1989.

The majority of Utd fans won't even know that. Just like most of them are unaware their own fan base was responsible for the deaths of Paul Nixon and the Roxbury's when they belt out that "murderers" chant towards us.

[Solomon Grundy]

No one should be compounding the grief of those who lost loved ones at Heysel by using their deaths to score petty points in a football rivalry either. It's absolutely stomach churning hearing brainless gobshites hijacking other people's grief and using it for their own selfish gratification. Horrible, despicable ghouls, the lot of them.

Let's get this straight. If you sing about Munich, Heysel, Bradford, Ibrox, Hillsborough, the Leeds lads killed in Turkey and any other disaster, you are a spineless, moronic, pea-brained arsehole.

Oh, absolutely mate.

[Solomon Grundy]

And to expand the point about Johnson see the exemplary piece by Phil Scranton;

https://irr.org.uk/article/boris-johnson-liverpool-lies-and-bigotry/

Brilliant article from a top, top man.

[Son of Spion]

The majority of Utd fans won't even know that. Just like most of them are unaware their own fan base was responsible for the deaths of Paul Nixon and the Roxbury's when they belt out that "murderers" chant towards us.

As you say, most aren't even aware of their own shameful history, and those that are aware have pretty much erased those killings from their collective consciousness.

[moondog]

Maybe start filming them?

Many people at that end of the main stand were filming them, I can’t comprehend how action never appears to be taken, drag out ten every time it happens and the chants would stop in one season. Incredible that the club allows us to suffer this abuse almost every other week. If we had chants about hideous events that have happened in other places, how long before we found the ground closed?

[Billy Elliot]

Yer know,

This is going to be one of these posts that mightn't go down well. But I'll get my excuses in early for those who find my posts a bit erratic - Ghost Town  .

In March I was diagnosed as ASD with PTSD. I'm currently having EMDR and although I don't think Hillsborough has traumatised me - it's something we're going to explore - so we'll see.

Now my excuses are out the way (it's great having ASD I can say what I want  ).

The Ev singing "Always the Victims" does my head in far more than either of the Manc teams singing "Sun is right". When Mancs sing Sun is right, they know exactly what they're doing. They know it's wrong, they look to upset us - and that's exactly why they do it.

But The Ev, and I've tried explaining this to my Ev mates- and they just don't get it. They don't realise that Always The Victims came about from the Bafoon's unproked attack on the City of Liverpool. The article (and it doesn't mater who wrote it) is something he's completely responsible for. And then there was the half arsd, forced, apology that the Ev seem completely unaware of.

It's so weird. Mancs are being Mancs. Everton make no sense. 

[Billy Elliot]

The majority of Utd fans won't even know that. Just like most of them are unaware their own fan base was responsible for the deaths of Paul Nixon and the Roxbury's when they belt out that "murderers" chant towards us.

And they got banned from Europe before us. Although it was overturned (because it's United) and the second leg had to be played 300 miles from Manchester. They think we got them banned. We got ourselves banned - they're responsible for the ban they got - although I can't understand how the Scottish and Welsh teams got away with it. IIRC, it was British clubs who were on a final warning.

There was a Manc who once told me they just want a Munich response so we look bad. They don't care if they look bad - just as long as we do.

[Barneylfc∗]

It appears Leeds have issued a permanent ban to a scumbag that held up a copy of the rag outside Lime Street.

So why can our club not identify and issue bans to c*nts that take part in these chants season after season? Surely the hold the power to dictate who does our doesn't enter Anfield?

[Fromola]

There was a Manc who once told me they just want a Munich response so we look bad. They don't care if they look bad - just as long as we do.

Absolutely. United fans revel in being bastards and wind up merchants, it's part of their fan culture . They also know they're the establishment club and can get away with more (including rioting at their ground to get a game called off with no consequences). But there's a lot of kudos for them in making Liverpool fans look bad.

I've seen United fans cheer Munich chants like a goal at Old Trafford, when they've goaded and goaded the away end all game and they've finally snapped.

[Billy Elliot]

Absolutely. United fans revel in being bastards and wind up merchants, it's part of their fan culture . They also know they're the establishment club and can get away with more (including rioting at their ground to get a game called off with no consequences). But there's a lot of kudos for them in making Liverpool fans look bad.

I've seen United fans cheer Munich chants like a goal at Old Trafford, when they've goaded and goaded the away end all game and they've finally snapped.

Absolutely. I've been in the Scoreboard End / South Stand (whatever it's called now) and you get a 100 or so United fans making plane gestures. 10 of our fans do it back and get an ironic cheer.

It's a strange sight when there's ten times the amount of their fans making plane gestures, than our own.

Attention seekers.

[Billy Elliot]

They also know they're the establishment club and can get away with more

I loved that FA Cup match where Kenny was in his second reign. They'd been singing We Are Unite, we'll do what we want.

They announced the lock in and we sang back "You are United - you'll do as your told".

Scouse, Anfield humour at it's very best - and it just shut them up.

[Fromola]

Absolutely. I've been in the Scoreboard End / South Stand (whatever it's called now) and you get a 100 or so United fans making plane gestures. 10 of our fans do it back and get an ironic cheer.

It's a strange sight when there's ten times the amount of their fans making plane gestures, than our own.

Attention seekers.

Nothing annoys them more than when they aren't given ammunition.

Take the last time they came to Anfield. Their complaint was they were goaded into singing the sun was right because we chanted Fergie's right to the same tune. Knowing their own tricks best springs to mind, or judging us by their own standards. That and the disgrace of us singing YNWA to Ronaldo's family during a minutes applause.

[Billy Elliot]

It appears Leeds have issued a permanent ban to a scumbag that held up a copy of the rag outside Lime Street.

So why can our club not identify and issue bans to c*nts that take part in these chants season after season? Surely the hold the power to dictate who does our doesn't enter Anfield?

Not saying you're wrong, but just a thought. Wouldn't it be easier for the away club? E.g. they'd have purchase details, ST or member details, Manchester* police would be better at IDing people on CCTV than Merseyside Police, etc.

Just a thought mate, I could be miles off.

* edit - in this case Yorkshire police - yes good point, good for nothing c**nts

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

It appears Leeds have issued a permanent ban to a scumbag that held up a copy of the rag outside Lime Street.

So why can our club not identify and issue bans to c*nts that take part in these chants season after season? Surely the hold the power to dictate who does our doesn't enter Anfield?

I hope the soft get faces more consequences too. Job loss etc. The sooner they realise that their actions have implications in the real world the better.

[Barneylfc∗]

Not saying you're wrong, but just a thought. Wouldn't it be easier for the away club? E.g. they'd have purchase details, ST or member details, Manchester* police would be better at IDing people on CCTV than Merseyside Police, etc.

Just a thought mate, I could be miles off.

* edit - in this case Yorkshire police - yes good point, good for nothing c**nts

For sure they could, but it's been happening for 30 years and no away club has bothered to do anything. So we should take it into our own hands.
If we cannot identify individuals, cut the allocation in half each time until it stops completely and put it out in the press detailing why, providing specific examples of when each club has come off with these chants at Anfield. "Insert Club name has failed to take any action despite numerous requests, so we have no other option but to do it ourselves."

[Billy Elliot]

Nothing annoys them more than when they aren't given ammunition.

Take the last time they came to Anfield. Their complaint was they were goaded into singing the sun was right because we chanted Fergie's right to the same tune. Knowing their own tricks best springs to mind, or judging us by their own standards. That and the disgrace of us singing YNWA to Ronaldo's family during a minutes applause.

We should just sing YNWA whenever anyone tries to wind us up. It always gets opposition fans foaming at the mouth for no know reason.

But something else I enjoy is when they try to goad us with, "Where's your famous Munich song". Then we start singing "Bring on yer Manchester United", same tune. Lots of forced, fake fume in the Yernited end

[Billy Elliot]

For sure they could, but it's been happening for 30 years and no away club has bothered to do anything. So we should take it into our own hands.
If we cannot identify individuals, cut the allocation in half each time until it stops completely and put it out in the press detailing why, providing specific examples of when each club has come off with these chants at Anfield. "Insert Club name has failed to take any action despite numerous requests, so we have no other option but to do it ourselves."

Good point, but I'm more of a fan of punishing individuals. Munich hasn't been completely stamped out at OT. I'd hate to be punished because some of our other fans are singing it. I realise it's not on the same scale, like. But just how I feel.

[Billy Elliot]

I hope the soft get faces more consequences too. Job loss etc. The sooner they realise that their actions have implications in the real world the better.

That depends for me. I was silly when I was younger. I cringe at some of the things I've sang in the past - hope he learns and moves on. Not have his life destroyed.

If he's over the age of 35 though, then there's no hope - so just shoot him.

[Cafe De Paris]

It appears Leeds have issued a permanent ban to a scumbag that held up a copy of the rag outside Lime Street.

So why can our club not identify and issue bans to c*nts that take part in these chants season after season? Surely the hold the power to dictate who does our doesn't enter Anfield?

He was a contender for The Jeremy Kyle show is ever there was one. Screams of low IQ.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

That depends for me. I was silly when I was younger. I cringe at some of the things I've sang in the past - hope he learns and moves on. Not have his life destroyed.

If he's over the age of 35 though, then there's no hope - so just shoot him.

I think most of us did when we were younger. I also think most of us grew out of it fairly quickly too. I’ve lost count of images of fans singing about us that have shown grown adults spewing their bile.

I think this is where the club has a part to play too. Start telling people that those chants aren’t acceptable, and that anyone caught, will first be banned from Anfield, second could be banned from their own club, and third could potentially face wider consequences such as job losses.

[liverbloke]

That depends for me. I was silly when I was younger. I cringe at some of the things I've sang in the past - hope he learns and moves on. Not have his life destroyed.

If he's over the age of 35 though, then there's no hope - so just shoot him.

not saying i'm better than you so don't take offence - but i've never said nor sang anything that gone too far

it just isn't in me but i understand being young and peer pressure and the mob instinct that mates can have can cause you to act as part of that group

fans are a microcosm of the population, and you can get amazing people, warm people, salt of the earth people and then you can get the scum, the racist, the prejudiced twats, the violent, the moronic

and i have to say that i have witnessed our fans - and people within my own social circle (though not close friends to me) - behaving shamefully and i've never called them out because you tend to just smile awkwardly and say nothing and either move on to the next boozer or just slowly shuffle away

i did call out somebody just the once when i called my cousin a racist and was thrown out of his house - the twat

but if i find any person's/fan's views extreme then i tend to stay away from them rather than try and confront them or change their views because they ain't gonna change

[Son of Spion]

That depends for me. I was silly when I was younger. I cringe at some of the things I've sang in the past - hope he learns and moves on. Not have his life destroyed.

If he's over the age of 35 though, then there's no hope - so just shoot him.

Thing is though, the days when hordes of kids could go to matches with their pocket money are long gone. When we see close-up shots of these morons the overwhelming majority of them are adults. People with jobs and families. People who should have grown up long ago, yet still act like brainless baboons.

For me, they deserve all they get if they come here and taunt the dead and the bereaved. I'm sick and tired of people not taking responsibility for their own actions. It's time people were actually held to account. Maybe it might just help them to finally grow up and integrate with the human race.

[Billy Elliot]

not saying i'm better than you so don't take offence - but i've never said nor sang anything that gone too far

Wish I could say the same mate. Munich, Harold Shipmnan, the Woolworths fire (ugh that makes me cringe more than the others - and I don't know why). Guilty as charged for all offences.

I was silly, young, drunk (most of the time), and trying to fit in - part of the norm at one time, although no excuse. Looking back at it makes me feel sick, wish I was you 

[Billy Elliot]

Thing is though, the days when hordes of kids could go to matches with their pocket money are long gone. When we see close-up shots of these morons the overwhelming majority of them are adults. People with jobs and families. People who should have grown up long ago, yet still act like brainless baboons.

For me, they deserve all they get if they come here and taunt the dead and the bereaved. I'm sick and tired of people not taking responsibility for their own actions. It's time people were actually held to account. Maybe it might just help them to finally grow up and integrate with the human race.

Agree really. As you say - most are fully grown adults. Really need their heads kicked in, to be honest.

But if this Leeds lad is young (and I haven't really read about it) - I wouldn't want it wrecking his life.

[Barneylfc∗]

Agree really. As you say - most are fully grown adults. Really need their heads kicked in, to be honest.

But if this Leeds lad is young (and I haven't really read about it) - I wouldn't want it wrecking his life.

He is old enough to know that holding up a copy of the rag in Liverpool is going to cause serious distress to a lot of people. So for me, fuck him and fuck the rest of his life.

[Billy Elliot]

He is old enough to know that holding up a copy of the rag in Liverpool is going to cause serious distress to a lot of people. So for me, fuck him and fuck the rest of his life.

Don't know how old you are mate. But I remember a time when a Liverpool sunny wasn't complete without Munich 58 written across the rim, in black marker.

Everybody who wore them knew it'd cause distress to a lot of people, it was part of the fun. Fortunately though, I'm not guilty of that one, but  it was probably because he didn't have a hat or black marker.

There's people in Liverpool still buying the Sun, causing distress for a lot of other people.

I moved to Essex and was once on one of their supporters club coaches, someone was reading the Sun. Someone got off one of the other coaches and laid into him.

Gone off on a tangent here. We'll just agree to disagree.

[jonnypb]

Agree really. As you say - most are fully grown adults. Really need their heads kicked in, to be honest.

But if this Leeds lad is young (and I haven't really read about it) - I wouldn't want it wrecking his life.

It's one thing saying something in the heat of the moment, but it's another when you take time to post something vile on social media and then continue to do so throughout the day like he did.  He started to get backlash from his first post in Belfast airport, yet he continued to post shit on social media throughout the day.  He even posted on his instagram the email that he got from Leeds United telling him that he was banned with laughing emojis, the guy shows no remorse, so f*** him.

[Son of Spion]

not saying i'm better than you so don't take offence - but i've never said nor sang anything that gone too far

it just isn't in me but i understand being young and peer pressure and the mob instinct that mates can have can cause you to act as part of that group

fans are a microcosm of the population, and you can get amazing people, warm people, salt of the earth people and then you can get the scum, the racist, the prejudiced twats, the violent, the moronic

and i have to say that i have witnessed our fans - and people within my own social circle (though not close friends to me) - behaving shamefully and i've never called them out because you tend to just smile awkwardly and say nothing and either move on to the next boozer or just slowly shuffle away

i did call out somebody just the once when i called my cousin a racist and was thrown out of his house - the twat

but if i find any person's/fan's views extreme then i tend to stay away from them rather than try and confront them or change their views because they ain't gonna change

I'll be honest, I did sing some highly dubious stuff when I was a lad. I was never a bad kid either. I was just highly immature. Also, no one ever said "hey, that's out of order, give it a rest." I was never made accountable and was never pulled up for it. I was immature, lacking in empathy and lacking in understanding. I was ignorant. Plain and simple, I was immature and ignorant.

My parents never knew, of course. They'd have been horrified. My dad twatted me when I got a Sex Pistols badge with a swastika on it. I'm glad he did too. Again, I was ignorant and stupid. As I grew up I became Antifa and will be until the day I die.

So yes, I fully understand how so many of us do really stupid things when we are young, immature, lacking in awareness and are yet to develop a healthy level of empathy. Thing is though, these days it's not kids, the overwhelming majority of these ghouls are adults. They are the mechanic you pay to fix your car. The plumber in your house you are paying to sort your leaky tap. They might be your accountant or your elderly parents' home carer. They are often people in responsible jobs. Some of us with businesses will be employing some of these people too.

This is the 21st century now. There is no excuse for ignorance. We live in the age where education is at our fingertips. We all know what's right and wrong. There has never been a time in human history when it was easier to understand others, communicate with others and learn from the wider world.

Sure, don't drag the impressionable 12 year old out of the crowd for following the lead of the supposedly mature adult next to them who is singing songs about death and tragedy. Pull the 'adult' as an example and hold him/her accountable, then the kid gets the message and learns an important life lesson.

[Son of Spion]

Agree really. As you say - most are fully grown adults. Really need their heads kicked in, to be honest.

But if this Leeds lad is young (and I haven't really read about it) - I wouldn't want it wrecking his life.

The Leeds fella is a 24 year old from Dundalk in Eire.

[Billy Elliot]

It's one thing saying something in the heat of the moment, but it's another when you take time to post something vile on social media and then continue to do so throughout the day like he did.  He started to get backlash from his first post in Belfast airport, yet he continued to post shit on social media throughout the day.  He even posted on his instagram the email that he got from Leeds United telling him that he was banned with laughing emojis, the guy shows no remorse, so f*** him.

Yeah, if that's the case then I agree. I think. I think I might have had a photo taken with a Munich flag once, not sure that's comparable - made sure my dad didn't see it. Think I agree though.

Social media wasn't a thing when I acted like a nob. I probably deserved a ban to be honest - and my dad would have killed me.

[Billy Elliot]

I'll be honest, I did sing some highly dubious stuff when I was a lad. I was never a bad kid either. I was just highly immature. Also, no one ever said "hey, that's out of order, give it a rest." I was never made accountable and was never pulled up for it. I was immature, lacking in empathy and lacking in understanding. I was ignorant. Plain and simple, I was immature and ignorant.

My parents never knew, of course. They'd have been horrified. My dad twatted me when I got a Sex Pistols badge with a swastika on it. I'm glad he did too. Again, I was ignorant and stupid. As I grew up I became Antifa and will be until the day I die.

So yes, I fully understand how so many of us do really stupid things when we are young, immature, lacking in awareness and are yet to develop a healthy level of empathy. Thing is though, these days it's not kids, the overwhelming majority of these ghouls are adults. They are the mechanic you pay to fix your car. The plumber in your house you are paying to sort your leaky tap. They might be your accountant or your elderly parents' home carer. They are often people in responsible jobs. Some of us with businesses will be employing some of these people too.

This is the 21st century now. There is no excuse for ignorance. We live in the age where education is at our fingertips. We all know what's right and wrong. There has never been a time in human history when it was easier to understand others, communicate with others and learn from the wider world.

Sure, don't drag the impressionable 12 year old out of the crowd for following the lead of the supposedly mature adult next to them who is singing songs about death and tragedy. Pull the 'adult' as an example and hold him/her accountable, then the kid gets the message and learns an important life lesson.

Great post.

For some reason it had me thinking of what Liverpool was like in general, in the 80s. As you know, a lot of really, really bad things happened. But whether it was Chernobyl, the Space Shuttle Challenger, Zebruge ferry, Rock Hudson dying of AIDS - whatever it was then 10 minutes later there'd be 100's of different jokes doing the rounds. Think that was reflected in the Anfield crowd - unless the rest of the world was like that - don't know.

[Barneylfc∗]

It's one thing saying something in the heat of the moment, but it's another when you take time to post something vile on social media and then continue to do so throughout the day like he did.  He started to get backlash from his first post in Belfast airport, yet he continued to post shit on social media throughout the day.  He even posted on his instagram the email that he got from Leeds United telling him that he was banned with laughing emojis, the guy shows no remorse, so f*** him.

How the fuck did that wanker get from Belfast airport when my flight was cancelled 

I'll be honest, I did sing some highly dubious stuff when I was a lad. I was never a bad kid either. I was just highly immature. Also, no one ever said "hey, that's out of order, give it a rest." I was never made accountable and was never pulled up for it. I was immature, lacking in empathy and lacking in understanding. I was ignorant. Plain and simple, I was immature and ignorant.

My parents never knew, of course. They'd have been horrified. My dad twatted me when I got a Sex Pistols badge with a swastika on it. I'm glad he did too. Again, I was ignorant and stupid. As I grew up I became Antifa and will be until the day I die.

So yes, I fully understand how so many of us do really stupid things when we are young, immature, lacking in awareness and are yet to develop a healthy level of empathy. Thing is though, these days it's not kids, the overwhelming majority of these ghouls are adults. They are the mechanic you pay to fix your car. The plumber in your house you are paying to sort your leaky tap. They might be your accountant or your elderly parents' home carer. They are often people in responsible jobs. Some of us with businesses will be employing some of these people too.

This is the 21st century now. There is no excuse for ignorance. We live in the age where education is at our fingertips. We all know what's right and wrong. There has never been a time in human history when it was easier to understand others, communicate with others and learn from the wider world.

Sure, don't drag the impressionable 12 year old out of the crowd for following the lead of the supposedly mature adult next to them who is singing songs about death and tragedy. Pull the 'adult' as an example and hold him/her accountable, then the kid gets the message and learns an important life lesson.

This is the bottom line for me.
Hillsborough has been in the public domain for over 30 years. Anyone holding up a copy of the rag, chanting whatever chant, or doing whatever gesture knows full well what they are doing, especially pricks like this that are diong it individually rather than as part of a mob.

[Billy Elliot]

I just want to add that I told someone I'd agree to disagree with Barnie. Then carried on disagreeing - sorry mate.

As I said earlier ASD 

Seriously, my head is a bit wonky today and I'm going off on tangent all the time. So will say good bye to yers for now.

But to wrap it up - anybody aged over 35 - unanimous - wreck their life. Younger - divided opinion - leaning towards wreck their life - I'm on the other side of the fence.

Right, need to sort my head out now.

[liverbloke]

I'll be honest, I did sing some highly dubious stuff when I was a lad. I was never a bad kid either. I was just highly immature. Also, no one ever said "hey, that's out of order, give it a rest." I was never made accountable and was never pulled up for it. I was immature, lacking in empathy and lacking in understanding. I was ignorant. Plain and simple, I was immature and ignorant.

My parents never knew, of course. They'd have been horrified. My dad twatted me when I got a Sex Pistols badge with a swastika on it. I'm glad he did too. Again, I was ignorant and stupid. As I grew up I became Antifa and will be until the day I die.

So yes, I fully understand how so many of us do really stupid things when we are young, immature, lacking in awareness and are yet to develop a healthy level of empathy. Thing is though, these days it's not kids, the overwhelming majority of these ghouls are adults. They are the mechanic you pay to fix your car. The plumber in your house you are paying to sort your leaky tap. They might be your accountant or your elderly parents' home carer. They are often people in responsible jobs. Some of us with businesses will be employing some of these people too.

This is the 21st century now. There is no excuse for ignorance. We live in the age where education is at our fingertips. We all know what's right and wrong. There has never been a time in human history when it was easier to understand others, communicate with others and learn from the wider world.

Sure, don't drag the impressionable 12 year old out of the crowd for following the lead of the supposedly mature adult next to them who is singing songs about death and tragedy. Pull the 'adult' as an example and hold him/her accountable, then the kid gets the message and learns an important life lesson.

good post spion lad - and i appreciate billy's honesty too

the most i've said/shouted is 'you manc bastards' or 'you geordie bastards' or 'you occkney bastards' - even though i have a fondness for newcastle and i have manc mates and have no problem with people from london 

my brothers are even blue-noses and are great though i have a few blue-nosed in-laws who are fucking bitter nasty twats and would rather see our club burned off the face of the earth

but it all stems from your peers be it your mates, your work colleagues or (worst of all) your family

bu regarding the sex pistols swastika - i love the pistols but even as a kid i knew that the wearing of that kind of insignia was just the yoof pissing off the oldies who they saw as war-mongerers really

funnily enough once they grew up those badges disappeared and only remained with the 'real' fascists and racists who jumped on the punk bandwagon

but good discussion because you can only address a problem when you fully understand it and openness - like from billy - helps with that

[Ghost Town]

Yer know,

This is going to be one of these posts that mightn't go down well. But I'll get my excuses in early for those who find my posts a bit erratic - Ghost Town .

In March I was diagnosed as ASD with PTSD. I'm currently having EMDR and although I don't think Hillsborough has traumatised me - it's something we're going to explore - so we'll see.

Now my excuses are out the way (it's great having ASD I can say what I want  ).

The Ev singing "Always the Victims" does my head in far more than either of the Manc teams singing "Sun is right". When Mancs sing Sun is right, they know exactly what they're doing. They know it's wrong, they look to upset us - and that's exactly why they do it.

But The Ev, and I've tried explaining this to my Ev mates- and they just don't get it. They don't realise that Always The Victims came about from the Bafoon's unproked attack on the City of Liverpool. The article (and it doesn't mater who wrote it) is something he's completely responsible for. And then there was the half arsd, forced, apology that the Ev seem completely unaware of.

It's so weird. Mancs are being Mancs. Everton make no sense.

 

You're right, of course, the Manc's know exactly what they're doing, what reaction they want, and why. It's a strategy, often cool-headed.

Some Ev, on the other hand, are like clueless wannabes who want to be seen as hard and cool and dangerous by acting that way and don't realise that they're often reprising calumny that was originally aimed at them themselves as well as us.

It often seems like they have no strategy, they just want to take out their anger, caused by their own feelings of inadequacy and shiteness, upon us. They seem astounded if it causes a reaction, as if they are 100% morally in the right to say and act like they do and how can anyone disagree? Unlike the Mancs who want a reaction.

Regarding the point on banning, an interesting discussion above, and while I can understand all points of view expressed, generally I'm not in favour of blanket 'bans for life'.

I think each case should be assessed upon it's own merits and demerits. Generally I feel people are capable of change and there should always be the option of a way back where it's merited. Some people, of course, are time served c*nts and there's no hope for them. Others are often just easily led or perhaps not even truly cognizant of what they are doing.

I don't really think age comes into it as I don't buy into what is sometimes called the Myth of Maturity - the idea that merely existing for a certain number of years confers any particular qualities upon a person. Maturity (in the positive sense) comes via life experiences rather than time passing. But that's a whole different (but interesting) subject in itself.

As I said, I do understand and have some sympathy for all the views expressed above. Perhaps I sound a bit woolley but I have seen genuine change and contrition in people of all ages, especially after their actions catch up with them and they pay a price and have a geneuine chance for self-reflection. So I feel a door should always be left, even if it's a locked door that requires a high level of proof of change before it is unlocked.

[So… Howard Philips]

Yeah, if that's the case then I agree. I think. I think I might have had a photo taken with a Munich flag once, not sure that's comparable - made sure my dad didn't see it. Think I agree though.

Social media wasn't a thing when I acted like a nob. I probably deserved a ban to be honest - and my dad would have killed me.

Any mention of the Munich chants really pissed my dad off and he always pointed out that Matt Busby had been Liverpool’s captain.

Made me think.

[liverbloke]

Any mention of the Munich chants really pissed my dad off and he always pointed out that Matt Busby had been Liverpool’s captain.

Made me think.

i'm amazed at how many fans i've talked to that didn't know this

[Billy Elliot]

Any mention of the Munich chants really pissed my dad off and he always pointed out that Matt Busby had been Liverpool’s captain.

Made me think.

I remember asking my older brother what they were singing. He laughed and shrugged his shoulders, pretending not to know. It was some older lads playing football who told me the words. I’d probably heard of Matt busby but apart from being a former United manager, that was probably all. I thought the words were funny, like a nursery rhyme or something. But it was a while before I’d sung it out loud at the match. My dad would have caned me.

 Despite thinking it was funny, I knew it was wrong. But “everyone was doing it”.

And besides, they were singing about Shankly dying, and I was having that. Notwhilst my mates were looking at me, at least. And then the illogical seems logical. Until someone points out youre acting like a prick, then you reflect upon it.

[rafathegaffa83]

FA concerned over rise in 'abhorrent chants' about Hillsborough tragedy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63490856

Sorry but the time to be merely "concerned" has long passed

[rafathegaffa83]

No one should be compounding the grief of those who lost loved ones at Heysel by using their deaths to score petty points in a football rivalry either. It's absolutely stomach churning hearing brainless gobshites hijacking other people's grief and using it for their own selfish gratification. Horrible, despicable ghouls, the lot of them.

Let's get this straight. If you sing about Munich, Heysel, Bradford, Ibrox, Hillsborough, the Leeds lads killed in Turkey and any other disaster, you are a spineless, moronic, pea-brained arsehole.

Absolutely