Topic: Coates confirmed

[Eeyore]

That to me said it all there was simply no rational explanation for that decision unless it was to do with the backlash that taking Jamie off would off caused.


There you again spouting your fantacist shite as fact. Disgusting

I think the word me means that I am expressing my opinion and not passing things off as fact. Don't you  agree John?

What do you think of Carra's positioning for Holt's goal John?

[bigbear]

That to me said it all there was simply no rational explanation for that decision unless it was to do with the backlash that taking Jamie off would off caused.


There you again spouting your fantacist shite as fact. Disgusting

Whether that's true or not John and it is conspiratorial,  the simple fact from yesterday is that we conceded another goal to a centre forward being marked by Jamie and looked shakey down the middle again.

After 11 games this season we have had 2 clean sheets and one of them was v 10 men for 70 mins. Something is not right.

[john_mac]

Its a forum, its his view, deal with it.

i deal with it no problem mate, get on with my life, continue supporting the reds & going the  match.


Does mean I should call out disgusting conspiracy theoretic nonsense when I see it, especially when it is such a repetitive theme, preached to a pathetic audience all too willing to believe it. It stinks

[john_mac]

I think the word me means that I am expressing my opinion and not passing things off as fact. Don't you  agree John?

What do you think of Carra's positioning for Holt's goal John?

I think he got it wrong, but wasn't alone. Adam got it badly wrong as did Pepe, but I'm not going to start any rumours about Adam holding Kenny to ransom.

[its cold in the stands]

carragher hasnt been great this season but the goal yesterday was more reina`s fault than anyones, once a keeper decides to go he has got to get something on the ball, when brucey did that years ago no one blamed hansen or lawrenson.

[Not funny reecehenebry]

i deal with it no problem mate, get on with my life, continue supporting the reds & going the  match.


Does mean I should call out disgusting conspiracy theoretic nonsense when I see it, especially when it is such a repetitive theme, preached to a pathetic audience all too willing to believe it. It stinks

No John it means you have no problem calling someone opinion fascist shit.

[Eeyore]

Whether that's true or not John and it is conspiratorial,  the simple fact from yesterday is that we conceded another goal to a centre forward being marked by Jamie and looked shakey down the middle again.

After 11 games this season we have had 2 clean sheets and one of them was v 10 men for 70 mins. Something is not right.

Both of the games we have kept clean sheets in were against ten men, even in those games Van Persie was left unmarked on the right hand side of our six yard box for the shot Reina saved and Cahil's header and Saha shot that went narrowly wide came down Jamie's side of the pitch.

As well as that you have got Sunderland, Bolton and Stoke's goals coming down that side of the pitch.

[bigbear]

carragher hasnt been great this season but the goal yesterday was more reina`s fault than anyones, once a keeper decides to go he has got to get something on the ball, when brucey did that years ago no one blamed hansen or lawrenson.

Definitely more Reina than Carra but Holt was beating Carra anyway. Had Reina not come he would still have had a save to make.

It was a bad mistake by Pepe and I think he has been average to poor this season. In fact I don't recall him making a real save bar Van Persie at Arsenal and maybe that second header yesterday whereas he has been at fault for 2 goals clearly.

[bigbear]

Both of the games we have kept clean sheets in were against ten men, even in those games Van Persie was left unmarked on the right hand side of our six yard box for the shot Reina saved and Cahil's header and Saha shot that went narrowly wide came down Jamie's side of the pitch.

As well as that you have got Sunderland, Bolton and Stoke's goals coming down that side of the pitch.

I expect to see Carra miss out at Stoke and then we'll see from there.

[djschembri]

Carragher's performances are not up to scratch at all recently. How many goals we've conceded this season have come from his mistakes?

The Norwich goal yesterday came from his player. Reina would not have saved that header any way, so it wasn't his fault.

We were also very very deep yesterday. Some are of the opinion that this is all due to Carragher, yet my feeling is this is more due to Clarke's influence. It is the coaching staff who define the positioning of the centre backs, and not the other way round.

[Eeyore]

I think he got it wrong, but wasn't alone. Adam got it badly wrong as did Pepe, but I'm not going to start any rumours about Adam holding Kenny to ransom.

Where have I said that Carra is holding Kenny to ransom, there is a pecking order in football and some players are higher up the food chain than others. You know I know and everyone else knows that taking Skrtel off against Stoke was likely to have less repercussions than taking Carra off.

That's not a conspiracy theory mate that is on the balance of possibilities by far the most likely outcome.

[john_mac]

Whether that's true or not John and it is conspiratorial,  the simple fact from yesterday is that we conceded another goal to a centre forward being marked by Jamie and looked shakey down the middle again.

After 11 games this season we have had 2 clean sheets and one of them was v 10 men for 70 mins. Something is not right.

If anybody thinks that our biggest issue yesterday was Carra or conceding a goal, you never went the match or are mad or both.

Whether Carra should be in the team or not is mute.

We should have won, we had 25 shots 15 on target. They had 4 shots. We tired noticeably in midfield and wide areas.

It was an excellent game and a mostly decent performance. The result was not the end of the world and, taken in isolation, would be classed as just part & parcel of football.

But, for some on here, its just about spouting their shite, about their pathetic agendas, I can only think that the club matters far less to them than they proclaim.

Attitudes piss me off, but I'll still be at Stoke Wednesday supporting the club, the manager & the team. More important to me than someone scoring points on here.

[Carlito Roberto]

I expect to see Carra miss out at Stoke and then we'll see from there.

No chance.

[Hazell]

Some good posts in this thread from HBHR and Al.

[bigbear]

If anybody thinks that our biggest issue yesterday was Carra or conceding a goal, you never went the match or are mad or both.

Whether Carra should be in the team or not is mute.

We should have won, we had 25 shots 15 on target. They had 4 shots. We tired noticeably in midfield and wide areas.

It was an excellent game and a mostly decent performance. The result was not the end of the world and, taken in isolation, would be classed as just part & parcel of football.

But, for some on here, its just about spouting their shite, about their pathetic agendas, I can only think that the club matters far less to them than they proclaim.

Attitudes piss me off, but I'll still be at Stoke Wednesday supporting the club, the manager & the team. More important to me than someone scoring points on here.

See you at Stoke then.

Of course we should have won the game because we created plenty more chances again but 1 goal is enough if you can defend but it is not at the moment. We tired because Adam tires every game and Gerrard has played 2 full 90's in 6 months plus we were so spread because the defence was so deep (for whatever reason).

Once again though John we conceded a poor goal from errors at the heart of our defence and it cannot go on.

Not everybody who thinks Jamie should no longer be first choice is a non-match going internet warrior and I tell you what, both Shanks and Bob would have binned him at least 12 months ago.

[djschembri]

No chance.

Its a League cup game. Hoping for Agger & Coates myself.

[gorgepir]

If anybody thinks that our biggest issue yesterday was Carra or conceding a goal, you never went the match or are mad or both.

Whether Carra should be in the team or not is mute.

We should have won, we had 25 shots 15 on target. They had 4 shots. We tired noticeably in midfield and wide areas.

It was an excellent game and a mostly decent performance. The result was not the end of the world and, taken in isolation, would be classed as just part & parcel of football.

But, for some on here, its just about spouting their shite, about their pathetic agendas, I can only think that the club matters far less to them than they proclaim.

Attitudes piss me off, but I'll still be at Stoke Wednesday supporting the club, the manager & the team. More important to me than someone scoring points on here.

Nobody here is disagreeing that we are extremely wasteful at taking our chances. It is actually a bit pathetic that we have to create so many chances for so little goal counts.

Here we are taking about Coates and the (absolutely) obvious need for him to take Carra's place in the lineup. There is no agenda except wanting Liverpool to win. I understand your passion for Carra but he is holding us back (literally, we are 10 meters behind what we should be defending) and cannot defend against crosses (which is quite important as that is the only way teams are getting to us as we are too strong in other positions).

No need to get angry.

[john_mac]

No John it means you have no problem calling someone opinion fascist shit.

I didn't I called it fantasy, I never compared anyone to baldy Italians with black shirts or Mr Mosely & his grey ones!

[Carlito Roberto]

Its a League cup game. Hoping for Agger & Coates myself.

That would be sound. but it's quite a big game in the context of our season so I expect Carra to get the nod.

[Not funny reecehenebry]

I didn't I called it fantasy, I never compared anyone to baldy Italians with black shirts or Mr Mosely & his grey ones!

Okay lets forget Al and his previous.

Do you think Carra should be a starter for us as much as he is at the moment.
Take into account that we will need the replace him completely in two years. Take into account we need to push the defensive line up 15 yards to get the best out of our players in midfield.

[The G in Gerrard]

If anybody thinks that our biggest issue yesterday was Carra or conceding a goal, you never went the match or are mad or both.

Slightly mad rant there, it's about giving Coates a chance isn't it? Chelsea even rest Terry under AVB. Just don't seem to understand why Coates isn't given an opportunity under "lesser opposition".

[john_mac]

I understand your passion for Carra

I haven't a passion for Carragher mate, I've a passion for Liverpool Football Club, including its manager and players. The implication in here is that the manager is not up to the job if he continues to select an experienced player ahead of a youngster trying to establish himself. Regardless of the personalities involved I would support the manager & coaching staff over those in here, particularly those in here with a clear agenda.

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

I haven't a passion for Carragher mate, I've a passion for Liverpool Football Club, including its manager and players. The implication in here is that the manager is not up to the job if he continues to select an experienced player ahead of a youngster trying to establish himself. Regardless of the personalities involved I would support the manager & coaching staff over those in here, particularly those in here with a clear agenda.

where has anyone said Kenny is not up to the job?

[djschembri]

That would be sound. but it's quite a big game in the context of our season so I expect Carra to get the nod.

True that. The club desperately needs to get a trophy, or final at least. Still hope Kenny gives Coates a chance though

[Chirpy Red]

I haven't a passion for Carragher mate, I've a passion for Liverpool Football Club, including its manager and players. The implication in here is that the manager is not up to the job if he continues to select an experienced player ahead of a youngster trying to establish himself. Regardless of the personalities involved I would support the manager & coaching staff over those in here, particularly those in here with a clear agenda.

But as everyone has quite clearly highlighted in this thread Carragher is holding the team back and halting our progress.

[Eeyore]

If anybody thinks that our biggest issue yesterday was Carra or conceding a goal, you never went the match or are mad or both.

Whether Carra should be in the team or not is mute.

We should have won, we had 25 shots 15 on target. They had 4 shots. We tired noticeably in midfield and wide areas.

It was an excellent game and a mostly decent performance. The result was not the end of the world and, taken in isolation, would be classed as just part & parcel of football.

But, for some on here, its just about spouting their shite, about their pathetic agendas, I can only think that the club matters far less to them than they proclaim.

Attitudes piss me off, but I'll still be at Stoke Wednesday supporting the club, the manager & the team. More important to me than someone scoring points on here.

When you play against a team you are expected to beat the toughest part of the game is supposed to be getting the crucial breakthrough. We have done that in every single home game, we have played five and scored first in all five games.

In every single game we have conceded after we have taken the lead. In three of those games we have dropped points and in the fourth against Wolves he were hanging on for grim death. If you can't see that we have a massive problem of sitting deep at home and conceding virtually everytime we come under the slightest pressure then you are watching a different game to me.

You hit the nail on the head about us tiring in midfield, it's not surprising we leave a massive chasm between attack and defence in every single game, in every game the midfield finishes the game on it's knees. We simply are not comfortable trying to see a game out. If we are not 3-0 up after half an hour then you know we are going to be hanging on for grim death.

Brighton is a perfect example 2-0 up with the 90 minutes gone and we are panicking like fuck and scraping a 2-1 win.

[Breitner]

where has anyone said Kenny is not up to the job?

Won't be long now, the muppets are already sharpening their knives

[john_mac]

Okay lets forget Al and his previous.

Do you think Carra should be a starter for us as much as he is at the moment.
Take into account that we will need the replace him completely in two years. Take into account we need to push the defensive line up 15 yards to get the best out of our players in midfield.

I have said consistently that I did not believe that Carragher would have played as much as he has this season if it had not been for Agger getting injured. I have also said that I expect Coates to play more games as the season progresses, our league position, and other players fitness may dictate how many that actually is.

Nobody, not Jamie, not Kenny is daft enough not to realise that Jamie is coming towards the conclusion of his career, but that does not mean that Kenny will pension him off as soon as some might want.   

[john_mac]

Won't be long now, the muppets are already sharpening their knives

check the 1-1 thread, plenty there implying if not actually saying it!

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

When you play against a team you are expected to beat the toughest part of the game is supposed to be getting the crucial breakthrough. We have done that in every single home game, we have played five and scored first in all five games.

In every single game we have conceded after we have taken the lead. In three of those games we have dropped points and in the fourth against Wolves he were hanging on for grim death. If you can't see that we have a massive problem of sitting deep at home and conceding virtually everytime we come under the slightest pressure then you are watching a different game to me.

You hit the nail on the head about us tiring in midfield, it's not surprising we leave a massive chasm between attack and defence in every single game, in every game the midfield finishes the game on it's knees. We simply are not comfortable trying to see a game out. If we are not 3-0 up after half an hour then you know we are going to be hanging on for grim death.

Brighton is a perfect example 2-0 up with the 90 minutes gone and we are panicking like fuck and scraping a 2-1 win.

this is exactly my view, it is a massive problem, that people want  to glaze over.

[bigbear]

this is exactly my view, it is a massive problem, that people want  to glaze over.

Mine too. Spot on.

[john_mac]

But as everyone has quite clearly highlighted in this thread Carragher is holding the team back and halting our progress.

I haven't seen Kenny Dalglish saying or implying that through actions

[Chirpy Red]

I haven't seen Kenny Dalglish saying or implying that through actions

So? That doesn't mean Kenny isn't thinking about replacing him or noticing him hindering our game by playing so deep.

[stewy17]

So, Coates then? Oh shit no I see, the Carragher haters have set up camp.

Carry on.

[BobbyDavro]

I'll admit I've got an agenda against Jamie - I think he's held us back for years, and I don't like his dominance in the changing room, his role in Rafa getting sacked, and his complete lack of action against the previous owners when as a scouser he did fuck all, while the Spaniards fought and at least spoke out.

So I'm not unbiased and I don't pretend otherwise.

That's not to say I won't tell my grandkids about him, I will, and I'll probably miss out the last 3 years of his career at Liverpool.

So there you go, I've set my stall out.

Now love him, hate him, what-ever your option one thing we all agree with, and that's his days are numbered.
With that backdrop we simply have to start introducing alternatives, because even if you think he's still good enough now, next season he's going to be worse and if we don't plan for a future without him, we're being short-sighted.

Coates wasn't cheap for South Americans untested or unproven in Europe.  He comes highly regarded.  We've got to try him out, and try him out with a partner that is likely to be here in a year's time.  There's no point putting him alonside Carragher - he's his replacement.
So he's got to be tried alongside Agger - and we're conceding every game now, so this isn't a case of not changing a winning formula.

In short, there's no reason why we shouldn't try him and every reason why we should.

[john_mac]

When you play against a team you are expected to beat the toughest part of the game is supposed to be getting the crucial breakthrough. We have done that in every single home game, we have played five and scored first in all five games.

In every single game we have conceded after we have taken the lead. In three of those games we have dropped points and in the fourth against Wolves he were hanging on for grim death. If you can't see that we have a massive problem of sitting deep at home and conceding virtually everytime we come under the slightest pressure then you are watching a different game to me.

You hit the nail on the head about us tiring in midfield, it's not surprising we leave a massive chasm between attack and defence in every single game, in every game the midfield finishes the game on it's knees. We simply are not comfortable trying to see a game out. If we are not 3-0 up after half an hour then you know we are going to be hanging on for grim death.

Brighton is a perfect example 2-0 up with the 90 minutes gone and we are panicking like fuck and scraping a 2-1 win.

Which is fine, where I may disagree, is in the childish way blame for shortcomings is apportioned. Especially when you consider that for parts of last season it was breaking down other teams that gave us the issue, yet some people choose to apportion the blame in the same place.

Sitting too deep on leads as long been an issue, going back to Houllier's or even the end of Evan's time. We do not look comfortable on a one goal lead and have not for a long time, no wonder the crowd at Anfield appear nervous on one.

Putting a young central defender (who played at Brighton btw) will not change that overnight, leaving Kenny to change things at his own pace, might.

[john_mac]

So? That doesn't mean Kenny isn't thinking about replacing him

i fucken well hope he is, given the stage of his career

[Breitner]

I'll admit I've got an agenda against Jamie - I think he's held us back for years, and I don't like his dominance in the changing room, his role in Rafa getting sacked, and his complete lack of action against the previous owners when as a scouser he did fuck all, while the Spaniards fought and at least spoke out.

Aye, those Spaniards who got massive new deals out of it

[Eeyore]

I have said consistently that I did not believe that Carragher would have played as much as he has this season if it had not been for Agger getting injured. I have also said that I expect Coates to play more games as the season progresses, our league position, and other players fitness may dictate how many that actually is.

Nobody, not Jamie, not Kenny is daft enough not to realise that Jamie is coming towards the conclusion of his career, but that does not mean that Kenny will pension him off as soon as some might want.   

Jamie has been coming to the end of his career for the last three years and was precisely why he was only offered a one year extension in 2009. When I look at Jamie know bent over double gasping for air it's like watching Stephane Henchoz at the end of Ged's reign.

The pace has gone, the spring healed leap that allowed him to compete in the air has gone and Jamie like Henchoz is getting himself and the team into terrible positions trying to compensate for that.

Norwich did absolutely nothing to equalise a ball out wide followed by a cross in that should be meat and drink for a centre half and we conceded. Jamie should thank his lucky stars that he is playing in a side that dominates the opposition because if he was playing for a side like Wigan who defend for most of the game he would be facing cricket scores.

At home this season we have probably allowed the opposition far less than a dozen opportunities in total but have conceded in every single game. We are anxious at the back and that is being transmitted throughout the entire team.

[john_mac]

Jamie has been coming to the end of his career for the last three years and was precisely why he was only offered a one year extension in 2009. When I look at Jamie know bent over double gasping for air it's like watching Stephane Henchoz at the end of Ged's reign.

The pace has gone, the spring healed leap that allowed him to compete in the air has gone and Jamie like Henchoz is getting himself and the team into terrible positions trying to compensate for that.

Norwich did absolutely nothing to equalise a ball out wide followed by a cross in that should be meat and drink for a centre half and we conceded. Jamie should thank his lucky stars that he is playing in a side that dominates the opposition because if he was playing for a side like Wigan who defend for most of the game he would be facing cricket scores.

At home this season we have probably allowed the opposition far less than a dozen opportunities in total but have conceded in every single game. We are anxious at the back and that is being transmitted throughout the entire team.

Go ed Al how many times dya reeckon in your last hundred posts, none of which are actually about him?

They letting you out of Stoddart this avvy or are the knots tightly fastened?