Author Topic: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa  (Read 2598 times)

Offline Obviously

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Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« on: November 25, 2009, 11:53:08 pm »
I know there are similar topics, but did not want to post such a long piece in another thread.

Warning: This piece is pretty long, and it will be 10 minutes of your lives you´ll never get back(30 minutes for some of you). But i would kindly ask you to read it and give me your point of view. This not a deep analysis, but it points to were we are failing.

So what does actually change a side from coming second in the premier league and having a good run in the champions league, to looking mediocre,  unimpressive and going out in the group stage.

Lets first take a look at the squad.
Goalkeeper:
Reina: Same as last season, good and trustworthy. You wont find a better man to have at the back in the premiership.

Defenders:
Johnson- Arbeloa: Johnson has been a revelation in attack, but is not the same while defending. He is not bad though, and his pace is great to have at the back. Arbeloa was sitting back a lot more than Johnson is, and was actually a great defender when he was here.

Skrtel: Not performing as good as we know he can. He has been shaky since the first PL match against Tottenham where he and Carra hit their heads together. Made a great partnership with both Carra and Hyypia last season, looks unimpressive now. 

Carra: Same as Skrtel really. But he is one of our most experienced players, and should pull is weight and maybe even then some. Used to be the player you could always rely on, not anymore.

Agger: Hopefully he has put the injuries behind him. Was injured a lot last season, and was left on the bench a lot when fit because the others performed. Has been our most composed defender this season, and we need his creativity at the back, and we need to see it more.

Kyrigiakos - Hyypia: You cant replace a legend with 1.5 million in todays market, but kyrigiakos tries his best. He is not what i would call liverpool materiale, but he is a 4th choice for the time being.

Insua: He is promising, and shows great ability and potential. But he is far from the finished product. A bit naive at times, but he´ll get there when he gets more experience.  Only played a small part last season.

Aurelio: Our first choice left back last season, experienced and one hell of a player when fit for a period. I think he would be a world beater without the injuries haunting him.  I think we need him at left back to calm things a bit down at the back.

Degen/Kelly: Our second choice right backs. Degen was injured just about the whole last season. Looks ok going forward, not enough end product from him. Shaky when defending. Kelly impressed me against Lyon. If he can build on that performance, he can become a really good player. Homegrown which is important, can become the first player from the academy in a long time.

Our defense has been shaky all season, and that is something we have to fix as soon as possible. Every time we get a set piece against us i fear the result, and i am right to do so. But it wasn´t like this last season, so is the system that is wrong or the players? Maybe the other teams have found out how to exploit our tactic?

The injuries has screwed our defense over pretty good this season as well. Defenders we have used this season are: Johnson, Degen, Kelly, Carra, Kyrigiakos, Ayala, Agger, Skrtel, Dossena, Insua, Aurelio. That is 11 players for 4 positions in about 20 games.  Degen, Johnson, Kyrigiakos, Ayala, Kelly, Insua, Dossena only have a handful of games together for our club.  That leaves Aurelio, Carra, Agger and Skrtel who has the experience and knows how Rafa wants to play.

Midfielders:
Aquilani - Alonso: Alonso was class for us last season, and he controlled the tempo of our games. Aquilani has potential to become a great player for us. Time will tell.

Lucas:  Is actually a pretty good player, and he has become a lot better this season. Has potential to become great i think. His biggest problem is that he doesn´t influence the games enough, and is to similar to Mascherano. Has had the unlucky job of replacing Alonso.

Mascherano: Is a great player when defending, nobody gets past him when he is on form. He has showed some of his greatness this season, but has not been the boss at center midfield. When he plays alongside Lucas his limitations on the ball get exposed a bit.

Gerrard: He is our captain, but he has not been on i best form so far this season. Even he struggles with influencing the games this season. I expect more from him. He has struggled with injury for a while, and needs to regain his form. Didn´t score in the Champions League this season, and that says a lot. Needs to score, we a few enough goalscorers already.

Kuyt: After last season i really thought he was going to continue playing well. Last season he had 12 goals and 12 assists(?), and impressed me. This year he is only running a lot, with no end product and loosing the ball. I´m starting to think he is good when the ball is rolling our way, but won´t carry his weight when we´re not performing. Needs more end product and goals from him.

Benayoun: One of the few players we have with flair, and can do something on his own. We need more players like him. Contributes with both goals and assists. Possibly our best player in 2009. Has been one of the bright points this season, and has evolved from a player i did not want to see in Liverpool to one of the first one the team sheet

Riera:  Been injured almost all season. The only winger we have who actually stays out wide. Links up well with both our left backs. Started well last season, then his form went down a bit. Hope he can start contributing with more goals and assist. Is one of our best technical players. Has to improve his tactical choices, when to pass and so on.

Babel: Shows brilliance at times, sometimes he is hopeless. Has every physical ability needed to succeed, but lacks just about everything mentally. After his last comments i don´t think well see him play any more than he has. Think he might go in January.

Voronin - Keane: Vornin got his chance, but was not up for it. The tempo was to high for him, and he missed chances. Not more than a squadplayer, nor will he ever be. Keane wasn´t great for us, but was better than Voronin and he scored a couple of goals.

N´gog: Showed promise last season, this season he has taken another step. Scores goals, and was involved in both goals against City. Still lacks a little influence from him when he is on the pitch, that little extra some players pull out. But has raised his resale value.

Torres: Has been great when fit this season. Last season he had 14 league goals total, this season he has 10 in 10 games. I don't even dare to think about where we would be without him. Scores important goals even when playing with injury. But without him, we don't look dangerous at all.

Whole team:

We lack the killer instinct in our team. The killer pass, the long shot, beating a couple of players, risking their life to get the goal, risking their life to save the goal.

We need more goalscorers, the only players you expect to score is Torres and Gerrard, maybe even Benayoun. But we need more than that. 

We need more flair in attack as well. When the right back is the biggest attacking asset in a team, the balance is somewhat of.

We need creativity in the middle. The tempo of our play is to slow.  Players like Kuyt and Gerrard are struggling because the space they have has gone when they get the ball. Benayoun can cope because he is really good in small space, the same goes for Torres. But i don't think they would complain if they got space to run into. Where are the movement, the combinations, the defense splitting passes?

Injuries have made a big impact. We had 12 players out at one point, which makes it hard to get the team settled. Just getting 11 quality players on the pitch is hard with 12 players out. When your first choice, second choice and third choice is out, what can you do? We have the weakest squad from the top teams, we need our best available to make a run for the top. We don´t have the luxury of having 10 million+ players on the bench.

Conclusion:

We have a lot of things to improve, and Rafa has one hell of a job to do. If he can turn this around my respect for him would rise, and i will tell all my friends who do not believe, to become real supporters of this club. People seem to forget everything this man has done for our club, just because of a bad run of form while having half his squad unavailable with injuries. It is amazing how little it takes for some to turn against our own. 5 years ago we were a laughing stock in europe, this year we are again, but we have had 2 finals, 1 semi final and 1 quarter final. Going out against Chelsea 2 times, and Chelsea are a hard team to beat.

We need to get our players back and play a couple of matches together, from there on we can improve our form. As said before we need our best players fit. Benitez used to get stick because he bought to many players, and not a couple of great ones instead. Now he is doing that, and he gets stick for not having a big enough squad. It really is hard to get it right.

Rafas biggest mistake has been the success he has had. Look at the club we were when he came, just ridiculous really. No success what so ever apart from the 2001 season. Now we are a well respected club again because of our football, and not our history. Last season we trashed Real Madrid, we beat Barcelona a couple seasons ago, Ac milan at their high, Inter Milan, Chelsea, Juventus, Arsenal in some really memorable european nights. Last season we finished second, loosing only 2 premier league matches with the most points in-between the big four. Beat Chelsea and the Mancs in both games.

Arsenal had a bad season last year, they are back this season. Man United played with a squad resembling what we have used all season against Beşiktaş today, and lost at home. Chelsea were poor parts of last season, they are on top this season.

I cant believe that after all that Rafa Benitez has given us, some of you want to just throw that away. Everything he has built, we´ll have to start from the bottom again. We are not the force we used to be, other clubs are outspending us, we are 5th in the premier league in both our squad and salaries. Some seem to think we use the most money in the world. How many promising players did we have in our academy 6 years ago, it certainly looks better now in my opinion.

Maybe this ended up as a mess, i don't know. But if you read it and have a point of view, give it to me. I love discussing the club in my heart. The club i love.

Obviously

Offline smullo

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2009, 12:00:26 am »
Quote
Maybe this ended up as a mess, i don't know. But if you read it and have a point of view, give it to me. I love discussing the club in my heart. The club i love.

Obviously

As your nickname is obviously, can I just ask, were you trying to be Phil Brown-esque- and cheese ridden at the end there
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Offline disainit

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2009, 01:10:46 am »
Thanks for the post - really enjoyed reading it. Same sentiments here. Just one more thing to add though: during Houllier's time, I don't recall us bossing the opposition almost all the time and having a lion's share of possession. I remember only the great 'let's hoof the ball to Owen' tactical, and cursing the width of our attacks.

IMO, the thing that's wrong with our team is we're now way too attack oriented. We're putting elaborate siege machines on the opposition stronghold. but in so doing allowing the opposition to send out small sorties to rape Carragher and plunder Reina. Last season we played a lot more cautiously, but the Rafa got slacked by our own fans when that strategy gave us draws instead of wins. Now those draws are turning to losses.

Offline Sir Afghan

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2009, 01:45:19 am »
I always find these little player by player reviews really condescending, we all watch Liverpool every week, we don't need the players summarised in little easy to understand paragraphs (just a line if they're not "first team" or "liverpool material").

Having said that i suppose i agree with the overall sentiment. Rafa has given us plenty of success and we should support him.

Offline biratl

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2009, 01:52:46 am »
I always find these little player by player reviews really condescending, we all watch Liverpool every week, we don't need the players summarised in little easy to understand paragraphs (just a line if they're not "first team" or "liverpool material").

Having said that i suppose i agree with the overall sentiment. Rafa has given us plenty of success and we should support him.

Judging by some knobheads in our support, you'd be surprised at how much certain fans actually "know".
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Offline Sir Afghan

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2009, 02:02:43 am »
Judging by some knobheads in our support, you'd be surprised at how much certain fans actually "know".

Yeah they'll all read this and agree that Kyrigiakos isn't Liverpool material because he didn't cost enough and come with a big enough reputation. Despite the fact he hasn't done all that much wrong so far.

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2009, 03:45:39 am »
Fuck me...reading that we'd struggle playing in the Business houses league.
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Offline RedStevie1

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2009, 03:54:44 am »
Yeah they'll all read this and agree that Kyrigiakos isn't Liverpool material because he didn't cost enough and come with a big enough reputation. Despite the fact he hasn't done all that much wrong so far.
Terrible defending for the Lyon goal which effectively knocked us out of the CL.

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2009, 03:58:40 am »
Terrible defending for the Lyon goal which effectively knocked us out of the CL.

He didn't play against Fiorentina away or Lyon at home though did he?
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Offline dgoh

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2009, 04:04:29 am »
He didn't play against Fiorentina away or Lyon at home though did he?

I recall it was carra and agger wasn't it?

Offline RedStevie1

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2009, 04:05:39 am »
He didn't play against Fiorentina away or Lyon at home though did he?
Nope ???

We had 2 minutes of defending to do to keep our chances of qualification in our own hands and the way he got caught out for that goal was criminal, unforgivable for an experienced defender for me.

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2009, 04:11:57 am »
Nope ???

We had 2 minutes of defending to do to keep our chances of qualification in our own hands and the way he got caught out for that goal was criminal, unforgivable for an experienced defender for me.

For 90 minutes he was fine.
Castigate the feller if you want to but the results against Lyon & Fiorentina when he wasn't involved where the ones that effectively lost us our place in the knockout rounds.
Far better, equally experienced players have made worse mistakes than that. To say it is 'unforgivable' and 'criminal' is something of an overreaction isn't it?.........shit happens...........move on!
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 10:55:07 am by shanklyboy »
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Offline Ole Gunnar

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2009, 06:26:43 am »
Yeah they'll all read this and agree that Kyrigiakos isn't Liverpool material because he didn't cost enough and come with a big enough reputation. Despite the fact he hasn't done all that much wrong so far.

He's been terrible all season. He's not good enough to be fourth choice at a club like Liverpool. He's slow, a bad tackler, a terrible header of the ball(positioning, timing), he's overall decision-making, and positioning is nowhere near to good enough for Liverpool.
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Offline FiSh77

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2009, 06:39:42 am »
Quote
Our defense has been shaky all season, and that is something we have to fix as soon as possible. Every time we get a set piece against us i fear the result, and i am right to do so. But it wasn´t like this last season, so is the system that is wrong or the players? Maybe the other teams have found out how to exploit our tactic?

think you answered that yourself in the next paragraph

Quote
The injuries has screwed our defense over pretty good this season as well. Defenders we have used this season are: Johnson, Degen, Kelly, Carra, Kyrigiakos, Ayala, Agger, Skrtel, Dossena, Insua, Aurelio. That is 11 players for 4 positions in about 20 games.  Degen, Johnson, Kyrigiakos, Ayala, Kelly, Insua, Dossena only have a handful of games together for our club.  That leaves Aurelio, Carra, Agger and Skrtel who has the experience and knows how Rafa wants to play.


Offline SMD

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2009, 06:40:41 am »
What did you want for £1.5m?
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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2009, 06:47:20 am »
What did you want for £1.5m?
Another Hyypia?
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Offline YorkieRed9

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2009, 07:08:30 am »
Nope ???

We had 2 minutes of defending to do to keep our chances of qualification in our own hands and the way he got caught out for that goal was criminal, unforgivable for an experienced defender for me.

I personally blame Torres, the fact that he didn't score 3 and put the game out of site completely unforgivable for an experienced forward, only 20mil too dog shite i tell ya  ::)

Offline Ultimate Bromance

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2009, 07:18:03 am »
Personally I think our main concern is the way we go about defending set pieces. The nerves I get now whenever we concede a corner or any ball where it's possible to just send it into the box; it's just crazy how poorly we seem to go about defending them, and how often we concede as a result.
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Offline AmericanPoolFan

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2009, 07:37:45 am »
Good post.  Thanks for writing all that.

The thing that kills me about this season is we have had some shit luck and bad injuries but overall I like our squad.  It wouldn't be as painful for me if I believed that some other teams had a better squad.  But they don't.

Offline robbie96

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2009, 07:43:35 am »
Personally - Skrtel hasn't been the same since his knee injury to be honest....

Not a bad post really - 10 minutes my ar*e  ;D
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Offline shanklyboy

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2009, 10:58:33 am »
Personally I think our main concern is the way we go about defending set pieces. The nerves I get now whenever we concede a corner or any ball where it's possible to just send it into the box; it's just crazy how poorly we seem to go about defending them, and how often we concede as a result.

I had to smile watching the Debrecen game.
They had a corner and as the commentator is putting on a dramatic voice to tell the world how bad we are at defending set pieces.......we've cleared the ball and are breaking up field.
We were just in their half and he was trying to finish his sentence about how bad we were.
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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2009, 11:01:40 am »
Well at least Obviously has taken time to think about things and put forward his views, and that's not a bad thing on here, given the usual dross..
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Offline Cherashisushi

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Re: Things that are wrong, things that need to be corrected and Rafa
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2009, 11:05:56 am »
Way, way too many experts in football these days thanks to Pro Evo and FIFA.

The short story is, we are in deep shite thanks to a combination of bad luck and some bad decisions from Rafa.

We'll sort this out once we start winning 3 to 4 in a row.