Topic: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness – It’s all got to stop

[rushyman]

And we come to the major fucking crux of the "modern football" problem right there. We've been particularly patient over the last couple of decades, compared to a lot of other teams. But not compared to 2 out of the 3 big winners of the last 20 years. Patience and time is fucking key with management. Personally, right now i'm "willing" to give kenny at least 4years to drag the club out of the mire that we're in. That'll be the start of the re-build and blooding of some of the talented youngsters. And you know what else, if we get relegated, then I still want him in charge.

Look at the Mancs and look at Arsenal and see what patience rewards you with (well that and Mark fucking Robins ) Stability and long term success both on and off the pitch in different measures for each club. I'm not particularly keen on either bloke (putting it mildly as possible concerning baconface) or either club, but they are the standards we should be looking at.

We made a massive rod for our own back when 1 bad season on the pitch and a near death experience for the club off it allowed 1 manager to leave who should have been given a lot more time under far less financial constraints than he was working under to get things right.

Kenny's not going to make everything right overnight, he knew it full well. But if you can sit there and say that your not encouraged by the progress in the team in well under 1 week of him being in as manager then, quite frankly, you're a fool.

Unification behind the full team, the manager and the club is what's needed now. Someone here will only give him 4 games to turn it around? Pardon my french, but fuck off with that attitude. Kenny's lost his first 2 games in charge with a squad that's had all of it's life, soul and confidence drained from it until it's how was at blackburn, a husk of a team.

All of those players need our support to help them get their confidence back. You know, several I think aren't good enough to be here, but i'll still support them to the hilt while their hear and that includes the Roy signings. We are Liverpool and while any player is here so are they.

So go to the fridge, grab a beer or two and settle in for what will probably be a less than smooth ride towards rescuing our season. And it can be rescued. Once this team starts to get what Kenny wants there's 2 ways to rescue it. 6th is still very possible, there's no reason why it isn't if we can get our shit together on the pitch.

The second is the possiblity of winning a European Trophy. Kenny's never lifted one as manager of us before and I truly believe that with him at the helm we can win the Europa. And you know what, if we do, i'll be celebrating like it's 2005!

Good post.

Our next challenge is sticking together through the coming rebuilding process. Roy wasnt here for that, he was here for the reputation enhancement.

Kenny is here for Liverpool FC and for us. Just that makes a world of difference

[B.Red]

agree with you but to clarify my point,we can crush our self esteem by having a go at the players .
Ive done it myself on here and then kicked myself a few days later because it wrong and doesnt help at all.
while results are poor,i would suggest to the lads to try and avoid the media like the plague because they are just going to drain any bits of self esteem left.
stay away until results improve.
Then the media should be starting to write about how great we all are again and the esteem grows....onwards and upwards.

is right!

[Red_Isle_Chap]

Good post.

Our next challenge is sticking together through the coming rebuilding process. Roy wasnt here for that, he was here for the reputation enhancement.

Kenny is here for Liverpool FC and for us. Just that makes a world of difference

Totally agree and anyone who's not ready and willing to support through more hard times while we do the re-build can just fuck off quite frankly. I can honestly say that i've enjoyed the last 2 games, i really have. Despite losing both of them and losing 1 to the mancs of all people, seeing Kenny, watching the team trying to play the right way....suddenly i'm enjoying watching football again!

People need to re-discover the enjoyment from watching football, no matter what the results. It's fine to come on here and be critical of players/tactics/whatever, but as a fanbase we're wallowing in the left over stench from G&H and the hatred that they gave us. And that's what needs to change.

[theblackhumor]

Agree especially when it comes to expectations. After Kenny's appointment there have been nothing but "3-0 us against Blackpool" or "We should be steamrolling Blackpool" before the Blackpool game.

Knowing that we've had a bad away record now spanning now for 1 and a half season...I was amazed at those claims.

Funny how the media have got back their "now liverpool isn't playing like they should" only AFTER Hodgson HODGSON has left. Fucking ridiculous.

[Mackinaw Peach]

...

...

You took the words right out of my mouth.

It must have been while you were kissing me.

 

[RedRush]

Great OP and from dernaroy! Thanks.

[snowlion]

Good OP.  It's a good reminder to take a step back.

[PJG]

Brilliant opening post...and I agree with it 100%.

[Another Red]

I suppose you could call it knee jerkism... if we hadn't been playing like crap consistently for 18 months. 

Not too sure where the opening poster is coming from. Most people seem overwhelmed with relief and joy at the return of Dalglish to the managerial position. They see him as our saviour, as someone who will suddenly convert us into an attacking force to be reckoned with and someone who will guide us back up the table.

I'm very pleased that Kenny is back. I think that with Roy we were in a no-win situation and our poor form left the owners with no alternative. Kenny will help to re-unite the fans, to stop the hatred being directed at our management & hopefully have us playing more attractive football.

I don't expect us to do much business in January or to have moved up the table much come season's end. At least with Kenny in charge the second half of the season will be easier for our supporters to stomach if our current form continues.

The squad needs major investment and to suggest otherwise is well wide of the mark. The fact that we have a squad full of internationals doesn't hide the fact that we've lost several big players recently and failed to replace them.

It's not a brilliant situation but it's much better than it was. We need to accept our current position and continue to support the team until the owners have developed a plan to take us forward again.

[rossipersempre]

I can’t see how you can ridicule people for saying that we need a lot of new players. The team that nearly won the league had Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun, Arbeloa and Hyypia. They’ve not been replaced properly (I appreciate that’s easier said than done). Are you saying Aurelio is the same player he was 2 years ago? Is Carragher the same player? Even Dirk Kuyt – as appreciated as he was – was sometimes seen as one of the weakest links of the team at the time – whereas now, without really improving his own game, he’s now seen as one of our top players. Shows how much the team has declined.

Couple of points picked up on here. Xabi was a massive loss, the master key, without question. And yet a lot of people claim he was well under par for a good couple of seasons, neglecting to consider his injuries. Hence the Gareth fucking Barry farce. And yes ok, Masch played his Rottweiler role to a tee, but again it didn't really offer us anything than an extra layer of psychological security for the back four. I was a big fan of Arby but I don't think we're inferior at RB at the moment, with Kelly's emergence alongside a water-treading Glen Johnson. Benayoun was never played often enough to warrant a claim of "we miss him" in the way we missed Luis Garcia, and anyway Pacheco has the potential to eclipse both of them. Fabio may not be the same player he was two years ago, but then again given his injuries over that period, he still has relatively low mileage. And as we've seen this season, he still has quality and class in abundance. Carragher? Well I've been saying he's finished for a good 2 or 3 seasons now, and I was shaking my head in despair that we let a far superior (on and off the pitch) player like Sami go. And finally, as for Dirk Alehouse Kuyt - you really think he's seen as one of our most important players now?! Suggest you visit his thread...

My point is I don't accept the squad is significantly worse than what we've had previously. Yes you can point fingers at Rafa for a few of the bigger losses, but there's a lot to be positive about, and a lot of potential within the squad. We just need a top class engineer to strip down, rebuild and calibrate the machine and have it running sweetly again...and who better than Kenny for that.

As for FSG acting too slowly – I can see where people are coming form with that. With 97% of fans wanting Hodgson out, it’s amazing he lasted so long. Appointing Kenny is a great move, but it would have been more effective if had been done a month ago. Given time to Kenny to assess if the players could work in his system, and then have more time to identify and scout replacements. Understandable that you don’t want to criticise them, but you can’t deny it would have been better for the club.

Now that I agree with. "About fucking time", we all thought it. God knows what they were dithering over, raises question marks over their decision-making under pressure. And no question, the delay has set us back even further.

[Roy of the rovers]

The risk now is that we look at it all with rose-tinted glasses and think, 'hey, nothing can go wrong now when we've got our Messiah back'.

No, the risk now is that a bunch of blerts get impatient with the team under a new manager who's trying to do the right things.

Look at what Kenny said about Poulsen on the official site, and learn from him

[Roy of the rovers]

Keep Kenny. He's got to stand to the end of the season, that's for sure. But if he feels he can't improve the squad I'm sure he'll voluntarily step down if necessary. But I pray it won't happen.

Don't be a blert. What on earth makes you think 'he'll step down if neccessary'? To be replaced by whom?

This isn't a bloody carousel!

[THELEFTBACK]

Good post... and it will happen (back to basics re being a supporter now that Kenny is home). I'd like to kick-off this new sense of togetherness by suggesting a 'Save Eammon Holmes' appeal to Sky's Breakfast show producer. Another obvious dig at our plight this morning, "Wouldn't it be terrible if they got relegated" (pregnant pause for laughter).... TWAT. He recently compared the Mirror's (black) sports reporter to a new-born monkey, quickly issuing a grovelling apology to avoid the boot. Please Sky, keep that rotund non-entity there for life as no 'media personality' sums up the gulf between US and THEM re true class than this inane cretin. Keep it up, Holmes... Reds everywhere are truly united in hating your smarmy, self-serving, manc-luvin' guts.   

Seems like the post is being hijacked here.On a post with in-depth objectivity,honesty,valid criticisms and suggested ways forward the above poster wants to wage war with lardy-arsed cockwomble, Eamonn Holmes.Did you have the same emotion when Mickey Quinn was giving it large on TalkSport the day after the 4-1 at Old Trafford? (He opened up the show with YNWA).Of course not,it's called banter.The day to worry is when people don't talk about the club.

lardy-arsed cockwomble, Eamonn Holmes in his own peculiar way is keeping the clubs profile high.Not that it was his intension to do so of course.
The time to worry is when people don't talk about the club.When more people around the city walk around in Barca tops because thats the trendy football thing to do.lardy-arsed cockwomble, Eamonn Holmes isn't the enemy,apathy and negativity are.

[SeanPenn]

It has to stop. I agree. I have been extremely disappointed during the last days. But that is a good sign. It is nice to be disappointed with actual football games and player performance. Thats what football is all about.

Since everything is relative, (almost) wherever we go from here will be improvement. I found myself this morning, reading 'bout transfer targets and all that, actually relishing the task ahead. Make no mistake we have massive rebuilding in front of us, it will probably take half a decade to get us back to challening on all fronts again. But it will be fun. And I will enjoy it. I already do.

Give the owners and Comolli time and trust. Let Kenny take the reins for a few years. Rebuild the club and squad solidly and with patience. We might lose a few gloryhunting fans in the process. That might be a good thing.

Let's twat these bitter bastards.

 

[the jesus]

Masch played his Rottweiler role to a tee, but again it didn't really offer us anything than an extra layer of psychological security for the back four.

Think you have massively unerplayed  Masch's importance to the team the security he gave the back four was more than psychological. I don't think the recent fragility of our defence is any coincedence.

[Zappa]

[MiserableP15]

I suppose you could call it knee jerkism... if we hadn't been playing like crap consistently for 18 months. 

Not too sure where the opening poster is coming from. Most people seem overwhelmed with relief and joy at the return of Dalglish to the managerial position. They see him as our saviour, as someone who will suddenly convert us into an attacking force to be reckoned with and someone who will guide us back up the table.

I'm very pleased that Kenny is back. I think that with Roy we were in a no-win situation and our poor form left the owners with no alternative. Kenny will help to re-unite the fans, to stop the hatred being directed at our management & hopefully have us playing more attractive football.

I don't expect us to do much business in January or to have moved up the table much come season's end. At least with Kenny in charge the second half of the season will be easier for our supporters to stomach if our current form continues.

The squad needs major investment and to suggest otherwise is well wide of the mark. The fact that we have a squad full of internationals doesn't hide the fact that we've lost several big players recently and failed to replace them.

It's not a brilliant situation but it's much better than it was. We need to accept our current position and continue to support the team until the owners have developed a plan to take us forward again.

That's exactly the point - the last 18 months have driven us all to fix on every bad part of our club, whether it's shit play, a shit signing, shit owners or shit investment. We've been so concerned about the club itself that our own internal internet warrior is finding it difficult to sit back down and stfu.

Stussy sums up my OP perfectly when he says, 'It's OUR test now'. Time to realise that NOW the people owning, managing, coaching, running and playing for our club all want the same thing we do and more importantly are THE RIGHT people (Hodgson reference) to do it. It may not be quick, it might not be perfect, god knows there'll be hurdles on the way, but most importantly they now need us to let them do their thing whilst we do what we're best at. Supporting.

[Horse_with_no_name]

'When you walk thro a storm hold your head up high...' I could go on but you get the drift?

You have all sung it. Now do it!

[inspiRED]

Pretty surprised that the past 18 months has not gotten rid of the glory hunters. Guess its just a sign of times in this age where everyone must get their say or rather "rant" not even after the game but during the game itself. Trying times to be a supporter but that's when i guess the real supporters will stand up.

[NaoiDeag]

As for Kenny I will reserve my judgement til after the next four games.

This is mental. Welcome to Newcastle thinking.

And isn't the point of changing the manager, seeing if someone else can get more out of the same players than the previous bloke? What we've seen from CP under Roy, the few games he played, wasn't good enough. Then again, look through the squad. Pretty much everyone performed way below their level. Why shouldn't Kenny have a look and see what these fellas can offer him? Under his guidance?

Especially in a week with three games and no Ste, now is the time to experiment, see what he's got and settle on a preferred style (which we all reckon we have an idea which way he'll go) and a preferred use of the existing personell. Also, don't forget that January is transfer time and that works both ways. No one will buy a player they've seen nothing of for months, but someone in Germany or France might fancy CP. He could do a job for teams at some level.

Besides, was he that bad at Blackpool? Obviously Kenny didn't think so or he''d have been off much earlier in the game.

And to be honest, if Kenny Dalglish reckons a player is good enough to represent Liverpool from the squad then that's good enough for me. He can only pick from the squad he's got, but he didn't have to play CP or Jova on wednesday night.

He figured they were up to it, and wanted a look at them. Who am I to argue with that?

[TheDpoLenz without the please like]

Back the team lads  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdnfVBsfW44&feature=grec_index

[Stussy]

As for Kenny I will reserve my judgement til after the next four games.

 

[rossipersempre]

Think you have massively unerplayed  Masch's importance to the team the security he gave the back four was more than psychological. I don't think the recent fragility of our defence is any coincedence.

Don't get me wrong, I was a big fan of the under-the-thumb imprisoned Argentinian. My point was that defence IS psychological, but for a midfielder, he offered us very little beyond the halfway line.

[dernaroy]

Absolutely.

I'd be slightly worried here that I'm taking the bate from a WUM (surely no Liverpool fan has that attitude?) but nevertheless...

I can only conclude that Roslagen and others asserting that similar attitude, treating Kenny like he's some sort of Sven-Goran Ericksson type mercenery (give him 4 games! Are you f**king serious?) are simply naive teens.

Kenny himself will always say nobody is bigger than Liverpool Football Club so I am reluctant to get on any sort of high horse here but I have to say I find that type of attitude deeply disrespectful to the man. You must see how ridiculous you're being in even suggesting things like that. Kenny did not have to come near us again, he had no call to. You can be sure he is not receiving near the same financial package that Roy received, he's not doing this to try and become a top manager again, if anything he's putting his already huge reputation on the line and directly in the line of fire. He's doing it because in our time of need, in the clubs time of need he is stepping up to try and steer the ship through these choppy waters.

Sure, once he has had time to settle into the job and stamp some authority on the team we can discuss his tactics and disagree with team selections if thats what you see fit, thats part of what being a fan is about. But always remember he is not doing this for himself, he is dong it for us so be grateful and have a bit of respect.

And by the way you don't have to be in your 30's or older to appreciate what Kenny has done for this club and what he means to Liverpool, I never saw him lift the title, you just have to be educated.

[hedger]

Kenny and Clarke will know exactly what is needed to halt the slide. I have faith FSG will back them also. It is frustrating but we will have to be patient. The changes so badly needed to the squad will soon materialise. Until then we are in for pain

[mercurial]

You need to learn how to read. I am not defending CP, I am defending Kenny's right to give all players a chance to prove their worth. ffs.

  No use trying to drill sense into thickheads. If we as supporters cannot unite behind the team now, how the hell do we even expect teamwork from the team. The last year and a half was an aberration in our history. Now we need to get behind Kenny and trust. Every action so far from the owners have looked correct and its fair to trust them. Kenny is our living legend and symbolizes all that we stand for. If we cannot unite now for the next six months and throw everything behind the team then history will judge us as escapists. Today when our team is in deep shit and fighting for survival it needs us above all. Make not the mistake of thinking a couple of good results will get the season safe and relegation a forgotten nightmare. A couple of signings will not turn the season around.

Kenny knows that and so do the owners. We are a club rebuilding. We were shaken and our foundations ravaged during the H&G era. Our core values were lost, fans fought among themselves. The boardroom was fractured, the dressing room even more so. The club and the supporters were alienated. We are now rebuilding and I have not seen any organization (profit and non-profit, corporate and government) where a rebuilding was a cakewalk. It takes time.Maybe in 2013 we shall be striving for trophies again. Are we willing to stay true and loyal and cheer the team for 2 years? Are we ready to see 11 men every week step out and play in red and cheer them, not only because we want them to win but because we support that emblem on the jersey? We laid claim over the years as the team with the most loyal supporters and I believe it was and still is a correct claim.

Now when that claim is called into question and we face a challenge to prove ourselves, its up to us to prove ourselves first. We cannot control the boardroom, nor the training sessions in Melwood or the team selections or jump a couple of feet higher than skrtel to save a goal. The team needs support like what we showed in Istanbul when we were 3-0 down and YNWA was being sung on the stands. It needs us to first believe in ourselves, what values we stand for. If we fail to truly understand those values then we cannot be classed as anything else than success supporters. All that the naysayers said will then be proved right. What we can do is probably cheer so loudly every match such that Skrtel can find something within himself to strive that extra hard or poulsen maybe can put in an extra yard of pace. That is probably what happened in Istanbul and will happen again if we believe in ourselves.

 

[Roslagen]

Either I'm naïve, or people have fallen into a trap. Not being able to scrutinise players' performances is not recommended 

That said, I'm honoured to, in one day only, becoming the scapegoat of the entire site.

Marvellous

Some people spoke about a relief when finding out Skrtel's goal was (correctly) disallowed at the Wolves game. That's what I call bad attitude 

[Vulmea]

Either I'm naïve, or people have fallen into a trap. Not being able to scrutinise players' performances is not recommended 

That said, I'm honoured to, in one day only, becoming the scapegoat of the entire site.

Marvellous

Some people spoke about a relief when finding out Skrtel's goal was (correctly) disallowed at the Wolves game. That's what I call bad attitude 

naive is  a very generous word.

Scapegoating is the practice of singling out any party for unmerited negative treatment or blame

I think you've singled yourself out by being so far out of touch and the entire site has never heard of you,  only those unfortunate enough to stumble across your posts but keep bigging yourself up lad your ego clearly needs the fuel

your opening paragraph contains a double negative this generally means the sentence has the opposite meaning to the one you intended: 

if you believe now is a good time to be critical of players please explain why - is it going to improve those players and their performance, is it going to highlight something we are unaware of, will it make you feel important - why?

if you believe now is not a good time then its the first sensible thing you've posted.

[liv8me]

Let me tell you, 30 minutes of our football last night showed me the difference Kenny has already brought to the team in terms of passing, movement, pressurising and possession, more than Roy managed to do in his entire time at Liverpool. Regardless of the result, there are already signs of improvement,

Agree with the above statement.

One main ingredient missing from the above is CONTROL of the game. Exciting it was to watch, Liverpool were never controlled the game. Yes, we were attacking at every opportunity but failed to administer controlled aggression. One Rafa's key phrases which alludes to every time.

I hope this part of the equation will return soon, with more time Kenny spends the players. The return of confidence, will help to hold the ball longer rather hoff the ball forward at every opportune time.

[cj]

I'm fed up with people gathering their insights from f*cking football manager, I'm tired of people having a go at players still wearing red on a public forum! Agree with your post mushyp, unfortunately we were hit with the internet and a ton of gobshites decided that voicing their opinion on every single f*cking issue would be a good way to make up for having a small penis/a boring life.
Makes me extremely sad.
 

[gregorio]

Expectations, Knee Jerkism & Bitterness - isn't that a firm of Divorce lawyers?

[gregorio]

unfortunately we were hit with the internet and a ton of gobshites decided that voicing their opinion on every single f*cking issue would be a good way to make up for having a small penis/a boring life.
Makes me extremely sad.

.......writes the young man with over a thousand posts to his name 

[cj]

.......writes the young man with over a thousand posts to his name 

Know what you're saying. But you'll find that hardly any of those posts concern having a go at the team though. But I do see the irony.

[gregorio]

Know what you're saying. But you'll find that hardly any of those posts concern having a go at the team though. But I do see the irony.

sorry, cheap shot but I couldn't resist it

[gallden]

The war is over time to lay down your weapons and get right behind the manager, players and owners.

Fair enough I bumped a relegation thread the other day that I should not have. Apologies all.

[flw]

'When you walk thro a storm hold your head up high...' I could go on but you get the drift?

You have all sung it. Now do it!



 Says it all for me