Topic: Liverpool City Council plans joint stadium for Liverpool and Everton

[Benimar Col]

that blue belly bradley rumour mongering once again, the only thing i will say for the tosser is that he did reply to my email regarding his support previously over this issue around 6 months ago, looks like its time for another for this free loading parasite

warren.bradley@liverpool.gov.uk

[Trousers]

That's fair enough pal, it's the Sky fan bit i didn't like from the previous posters. All of Murdochs outlets are on my will-never-give-a-penny-to-ever list for obvious reasons.

[Britvic Orange]

There must be something in it because this shared thing just wont go away and the longer no spade goes into the ground in Stanley Park the more chance of a likelihood of it happening.

[redprodigal]

There must be something in it because this shared thing just wont go away and the longer no spade goes into the ground in Stanley Park the more chance of a likelihood of it happening.

What a joke, but anyway, that would suit you wouldn't it, being a bluenose.

[kingjari]

From the KEIOC site:

Everton's success, great players and great teams being spread throughout its rich one hundred and thirty year history whilst Liverpool's unparalleled success being concentrated into a thirty year period which has included incomparable success, disaster and tragedy leading to a club with both national and international appeal and standing.


Bitter whoppers, even when giving a backhanded compliment. 

 
I read the article on the Link Lyndsey LFC provided, its relatively well thought out  and makes for interesting, if very amuseing reading, but that's all.

A groundshare is wrong on so many levels, not just emotionally.

And the design of their shared stadium idea, does anyone else recons it looks like the Everton badge has shagged St James's park, Looking at the aerial view its a stadium that has clear symbols of EFC and the city of Liverpool (the universe and the goal as far as KEIOC are concerned)  and nothing at all to do with Liverpool Football Club. When you look at it, nothing says home of Liverpool FC about it.

I've no doubt their ultimate wet dream would be for them to have their own stadium in Stanley park and for Liverpool FC to move out of the city.

Is Warren Bradley in KEIOC or something ? or Is it after seeing this KEIOC article that Bradley had the idea to mouth off about a shared stadium?  Does he keep championing their cause to the city council ?

Fuck off NO GROUNDSHARE.

[Shanks1965]

It's just a matter of time in my view.

I don't like the idea but it makes commercial sense which ever way you look at it. No sign of our stadium being built, nor will it ever be with the Americans in charge, the bitters have been denied plans to build in Kirkby. Theres a great big plot of land between the two stadiums that the council would just love to see a super stadium built there and my guess is some of them wont rest until it happens.

To the Americans the chance to half the build cost must be becoming increasingly attractive as each financial crisis torn week goes by and as we have seen they don't give a fuck about the fans and when it comes to saving £150m or so, they will give even less of a fuck.

[steelersmark]

The thought of this makes me ill. Absolutely no way. And to be fair, my cousin is a bluenose ST holder, and he repeatedly says the feeling is mutual. No way thank you!

[FlashingBlade]

Here's the facts LCC have absolutely no power to force LFC to do anthying it doesn't want to!, any funding awarded by NWDA to any linked scheme is not conditioned upon a ground share, planning permission is given and cannot be retrospectively condition for  a  ground share..regardless how the local media sell it...LCC cant  do a fucking thing and have very little clout with LFC!

This is about desperate local politics , this is about Lib Dem's ( and the Blue nose influence amongst them) not wanting  to be seen as the party who let EFC leave Liverpool , this is about the fear many in the Lib Dems have of losing power in the very near future, its vote grabbing and misguided ( not a first for local poloticians Id say).... the only thing we have to fear if the club find in financially attractive,....but why would they? here's an analogy, Grovener spend Billions developing Liverpool One....but the Council say after its built any chance if letting TJ hughes and local corner shops use it as well, cos like theyre part of  the city too?

Evertonions are suddenly panicing cos the realise their move might actually happen and they will even go for a desperate two faced hypocritical option of accepting a ground share than one thing..............having us take the piss out of them for leaving the city...and that what it comes down to for a lot of Blues.

[kingjari]

It's just a matter of time in my view.

I don't like the idea but it makes NO commercial  sense which ever way you look at it. No sign of our stadium being built, nor will it ever be with the Americans in charge, the bitters have been denied plans to build in Kirkby. Theres a great big plot of land between the two stadiums that the council would just love to see a super stadium built there and my guess is some of them wont rest until it happens.

To the Americans the chance to half the build cost must be becoming increasingly attractive as each financial crisis torn week goes by and as we have seen they don't give a fuck about the fans and when it comes to saving £150m or so, they will give even less of a fuck.

Unfortuneately mate a lot of what you say is true, but I don't agree its a matter of time. I'm usually indifferent to Everton Football Club and I don't particularly hate them but the thought of shareing a ground with them makes my skin crawl.
The only club it really benefits is Everton. 

[Onward Liverpudlian]

Here's the facts LCC have absolutely no power to force LFC to do anthying it doesn't want to!, any funding awarded by NWDA to any linked scheme is not conditioned upon a ground share, planning permission is given and cannot be retrospectively condition for  a  ground share..regardless how the local media sell it...LCC cant  do a fucking thing and have very little clout with LFC!

This is about desperate local politics , this is about Lib Dem's ( and the Blue nose influence amongst them) not wanting  to be seen as the party who let EFC leave Liverpool , this is about the fear many in the Lib Dems have of losing power in the very near future, its vote grabbing and misguided ( not a first for local poloticians Id say).... the only thing we have to fear if the club find in financially attractive,....but why would they? here's an analogy, Grovener spend Billions developing Liverpool One....but the Council say after its built any chance if letting TJ hughes and local corner shops use it as well, cos like theyre part of  the city too?

Evertonions are suddenly panicing cos the realise their move might actually happen and they will even go for a desperate two faced hypocritical option of accepting a ground share than one thing..............having us take the piss out of them for leaving the city...and that what it comes down to for a lot of Blues.

Nail on head.

Everton/Kirkby will go ahead, these noises from the council leader today are just the ramblings of someone who doesnt want the blame laid at his door when KMBC and Whitehall inevitably push through the Kirkby regeneration. Liverpool council cant stop it.

[kingjari]

I don't buy the financial sense argument. There's an initial saving by splitting the liabilities but making it dual use also pushes up the costs which mitigates that saving somewhat. Then there's the practical difficulties, scheduling of games, the state of the pitch, doubling the impact on the local community etc. There are plenty of negatives before you begin to consider the main objection, the impact on the club. Anfield is our home, synonymous with LFC, the scene of our triumphs etc. Look on the official site and see how much use the club makes of Anfield in marketing LFC to the world. They can do that because LFC = Anfield and Anfield = LFC. It's more than bricks and mortar in other words, it's an integral part of the whole package.

Now imagine that we're playing at a shared stadium. Forget dual sponsors, the whole point of sponsoring a location is that its name is used whatever the event. All of a sudden the simple link between club and stadium is gone, it's no longer home, its just somewhere we play 1 week in 2. That's going to make it far harder to sell Liverpool as one of the great English clubs.

Consider our status as the most succesful British club, yet the only one of the main clubs in the country without our own recognisable home, with only a share in a joint enterprise? I think the damage that would be done to us as a club over time would far outweigh any initial saving, and the compromises we'd have to make with Everton to get a joint stadium would destroy any affection the supporters might have for the new building.

very well put Armin, I agree, a shared stadium only benefits Everton. Not us.

[Liverbird 2010]

Is there a meeting tonight between SOS & KEIOC

I hope to god its not about this bastard groundshare, if this groundshare does happen, I am finished with Liverpool, finished and I mean that.

[No666]

Liverpool City Council can talk till they are as blue in the face as they are elsewhere, they can't make LFC join the scheme. & I'm not sure it makes sense financially even for our broke owners, because apparently Hicks wants to make money out of our stadium build by using his own steel company. If he was in a ground-share he'd have to accept lowest bidders for contracts and so lose his chance to bleed us dry while bolstering another of his companies. But expect a statement from him anytime soon painting a 'no' to the groundshare as proof that he has taken us fans' opinions to heart. You know Tom won't miss a pr opportunity.

[redtel]

It's just a matter of time in my view.

I don't like the idea but it makes commercial sense which ever way you look at it. No sign of our stadium being built, nor will it ever be with the Americans in charge, the bitters have been denied plans to build in Kirkby. Theres a great big plot of land between the two stadiums that the council would just love to see a super stadium built there and my guess is some of them wont rest until it happens.

To the Americans the chance to half the build cost must be becoming increasingly attractive as each financial crisis torn week goes by and as we have seen they don't give a fuck about the fans and when it comes to saving £150m or so, they will give even less of a fuck.

I reckon the cost of any proposed stadium is now £350 mill.

Do we really think the peoples club can raise £175 million?

There would be no Tesco link up on Stanley Park for them.

To me its, Liverpool build the stadium and they pay rent each month. I can't see how they could afford it anyway.

I would think even Hicks could see this?

[The Flying Pig]

I reckon the cost of any proposed stadium is now £350 mill.

Do we really think the peoples club can raise £175 million?

There would be no Tesco link up on Stanley Park for them.

To me its, Liverpool build the stadium and they pay rent each month. I can't see how they could afford it anyway.

I would think even Hicks could see this?

Think again,Hicks sees only $$$$.

He's struggling to find the money to buy out Gillett and there's no way he's finding £350-400 million to build the stadium on his own.

I know the idea is totally abhorrent to us,but since Hicks doesn't give a bollocks about us or our club,the idea of a shared stadium must seem very attractive to him just now.

[Swoop]

Think again,Hicks sees only $$$$.

He's struggling to find the money to buy out Gillett and there's no way he's finding £350-400 million to build the stadium on his own.

I know the idea is totally abhorrent to us,but since Hicks doesn't give a bollocks about us or our club,the idea of a shared stadium must seem very attractive to him just now.

Again, why would it if Everton can't raise their half of the cash??

[The Flying Pig]

Again, why would it if Everton can't raise their half of the cash??

I reckon that's the only thing holding him back.

[Liverbird 2010]

Fuck off Bradley.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/may/28/1

Shared stadium back on agenda in Liverpool

City council leader has backed a joint venture after Everton's planned move to Kirkby hits planning concerns
Andy Hunter and Louise Taylor The Guardian,

Wednesday May 28 2008

The leader of Liverpool city council has revived the prospect of a shared stadium between Everton and Liverpool following accusations that the authority has been compliant in the Goodison Park club's decision to relocate to Kirkby.

Warren Bradley, leader of the ruling Liberal Democrat party and an Everton season-ticket holder, has insisted a shared stadium remains a possibility despite fierce opposition from fans and, crucially, the two clubs. Liverpool dismissed the idea on the day Tom Hicks and George Gillett assumed control in February 2007 and are proceeding with plans for a new arena on Stanley Park. Everton, meanwhile, hope to move to a 55,000-seat stadium outside the city boundaries as part of a £400m retail development with Tesco.

Both plans, however, remain far from fruition, with Liverpool's scheme dependent on Hicks' ability to raise a further £300m in September and Everton's Kirkby move likely to collapse if called in by the government. The prospect of the latter scenario moved closer yesterday when Bradley confirmed Liverpool city council (LCC) would object to a huge retail development in Kirkby on planning grounds. Neighbouring authorities have also raised objections.

Everton have repeatedly claimed that LCC has been unable to match the financial package of Kirkby, or provide a viable alternative to Goodison.

"I'd back the redevelopment of Goodison but you can't unless Everton make a commitment. If they want to come to the table, we're always ready and willing," said Bradley. "I've also been working behind the scenes on a joint Liverpool and Everton stadium. I've talked to the sports minister and to the NWDA [Northwest Regional Development Agency] and I've spoken to [Everton's chairman] Bill Kenwright."

[attic]

"I'd back the redevelopment of Goodison but you can't unless Everton make a commitment. If they want to come to the table, we're always ready and willing," said Bradley. "I've also been working behind the scenes on a joint Liverpool and Everton stadium. I've talked to the sports minister and to the NWDA [Northwest Regional Development Agency] and I've spoken to [Everton's chairman] Bill Kenwright."

Since he hasn't bothered talking to Liverpool FC, why don't we offer to tell him what we think, in the thousands, so that he might at last start to hear.....
warren.bradley@liverpool.gov.uk

[TSC]

I reckon that's the only thing holding him back.

Made me chuckle that.  Only thing holding them back from spending £175m is the fact that they don't have any money!

Only thing that held me back from being a pro footballer was that I wasn't very good, or only thing preventing me from winning the lottery is the fact my numbers don't come up.

[Fjohn]

Hope this idea never reaches the planning stages.
What a crappy idea; both clubs would lose their identity (not that there's much for Neverton to lose). Our history would melt into some sort of oblivion and the only ones who could possibly gain are some short sighted greedy councillors.

NEVER NEVER.

[incredibleL4ever]

I don't buy the financial sense argument. There's an initial saving by splitting the liabilities but making it dual use also pushes up the costs which mitigates that saving somewhat. Then there's the practical difficulties, scheduling of games, the state of the pitch, doubling the impact on the local community etc. There are plenty of negatives before you begin to consider the main objection, the impact on the club. Anfield is our home, synonymous with LFC, the scene of our triumphs etc. Look on the official site and see how much use the club makes of Anfield in marketing LFC to the world. They can do that because LFC = Anfield and Anfield = LFC. It's more than bricks and mortar in other words, it's an integral part of the whole package.

Now imagine that we're playing at a shared stadium. Forget dual sponsors, the whole point of sponsoring a location is that its name is used whatever the event. All of a sudden the simple link between club and stadium is gone, it's no longer home, its just somewhere we play 1 week in 2. That's going to make it far harder to sell Liverpool as one of the great English clubs.

Consider our status as the most succesful British club, yet the only one of the main clubs in the country without our own recognisable home, with only a share in a joint enterprise? I think the damage that would be done to us as a club over time would far outweigh any initial saving, and the compromises we'd have to make with Everton to get a joint stadium would destroy any affection the supporters might have for the new building.

While I accept what you are saying you have to look at the San Siro Model.  What struck me when I was there for the CL game this year was the huge amount of traders feeding off it.  We dont get that here coz the stadia are only in use once a fortnight or so.  Having a game about 45/50 games a year makes it far more economic for people to locate thier businesses in the vacinity.  Also providers of transport links etc. will benefit.  As for sponsorship finding one in the current economic climate might prove problematic but to me the cost of sponsorship will be far higher when the stadium gonna be mentioned every week there is a Premier League game.  As for financing if you pre-sell corporate boxes which are about 250k per season per team - say presell 10 years for 2.5m each for 20 boxes per team (still with me?) thats 100m.  Lets say naming rights is another 100m.  That leaves only 150m to finance.  75m for each club.  The additional match day revenue will be about 30m per annum.  That would repay the 75m in 3 years.
If liverpool try this on their own the naming rights will be maybe 60m, the preselling of boxes gives 50m so you need to finance 240m which in the current market would not be easy to get,given the debt already on the club.  and most of the extra matchday revenue will be swallowed up by interest payments.

[incredibleL4ever]

Hope this idea never reaches the planning stages.
What a crappy idea; both clubs would lose their identity (not that there's much for Neverton to lose). Our history would melt into some sort of oblivion and the only ones who could possibly gain are some short sighted greedy councillors.

NEVER NEVER.

Look at Milan.  I think the rivalry there is more intense because they share the stadium.

[Liverbird 2010]

Crunch time on Everton stadium move - Keith WynessMay 28 2008
 
EXCLUSIVE by Dominic King, Liverpool Echo
 
KEITH WYNESS today underlined Everton’s intention to build a new stadium in Kirkby – but admitted their plans could be thwarted by government red tape.

Council leader Warren Bradley caused a storm on Monday by claiming he has been working on plans for a joint stadium that would enable Everton to relocate from Goodison Park but keep them within Liverpool’s city boundaries.

Sharing with Liverpool, however, is not something Everton will consider – fans from both sides are strongly opposed – and chief executive Wyness hopes that the club will be given the green light to start work in the near future.

But it is by no means guaranteed that the £400m joint Everton/Tesco development will get off the ground, as the more objections that are filed, the bigger the chance of plans being ‘called in’ for Government scrutiny.

Wyness warned that a 12-month delay could scupper the move completely, as the rising cost of building materials would place the project under an enormous economic strain.

“We are now at the planning stage, to see if we can get it approved,” said Wyness. “That decision will be reached very shortly. Work will start very quickly then after that if it is approved.

“The planning process is very complicated. There are lots of different factors. There is definitely a chance that it may not get through in the way we want it to.

“It could get called in by the government office. If that does happen, it may jeopardise the whole thing. It’s a very serious issue for us.”
 

Sounds like Wyness is pissed off with bradley for saying woodison can be extended.
 

[-HH-]

You can stick your fucking groundshare up your arse...

SIDEWAYS!

[Paul JH]

People who think this idea is worth looking at should ask themselves if they want to attend matches at a stadium with a Dixie Dean statue at one end and Everton badges emblazoned all over it? Likewise bitter blues walking past Shankly on the way into the ground?

Would you? Share a stadium and you lose some of your identity as a club. Full stop.
Warren Bradley, this aside, is still a tosser, always has been. 

[Redordead]

It's all a big fucking joke.  Although the silence from the America c*nts is worrying me.  They'll just see it as a chance to save some money.

Also, weren't DIC in favour of a groundshare?

[Robotforaday]

http://www.keioc.net/index.php?page=stanley-park

Oh sweet Jesus no.

[The Flying Pig]

Made me chuckle that.  Only thing holding them back from spending £175m is the fact that they don't have any money!

Only thing that held me back from being a pro footballer was that I wasn't very good, or only thing preventing me from winning the lottery is the fact my numbers don't come up.

Easier to raise £175 million than £350 million.

[Alan_X]

It could work in a couple of ways.
Either a third party is drafted in to communicate funds between us (Liv and Eve) and the contractors, or the bill is split in half and both sides have x days to come up with the money before construction begins.  Another aspest may be construction costs laid off against future income, with added interest on this delay in payment.
Certainly staged payment would not be an option with Everton methinks.
As for a downpayment, Everton could sell Goodison area tomorrow and raise a fair few million.

There are so many things that are wrong with what you've said it's difficult to know where to start. The contractor can't have two contracts for the same works (that's the nature of a construction contract) and if you could it would be a licence to print money because of the inevitable delays and disagreements.

The only way it might work would be to set up a joint venture to develop the stadium on behalf of both clubs. The joint venture would be a separate company and would have a contract with the contractor. It would then be up to the two clubs to make sure there was adequate funds available to pay for the works as they progress. If Everton didn't have the money to meet the certified payments then the contractor would be entitled to come after LFC for all of the money. That's the way contracts work.

The idea that a Contractor might accept that "... construction costs [be] laid off against future income, with added interest on this delay in payment"... is just off with the fairies I'm afraid. Construction doesn't work like that - unless you're advocating some kind of leasing arrangement where the contractor builds the stadium at his cost and gets paid back by future ticket income... in which case... what's the point of building the stadium?

[Alan_X]

And this:



is just embarrassing...

[Football CRAZY]

^^^^ The blueshite are so upset that we're supposedly building on public park space, when all we're doing in building over the carpark and turning anfield into public land. But notice how the KEIOC design there completely decimates the entire park, it is fucking enormous and as well as being far to big it is possibly the ugliest stadium in world football. Look how on the drawing, Anfield is turned into trees on the design, while goodison gets some lucrative flat properties where the stadium used to be. I would not sit in a stadium with that Everton totem pole in one corner, and no reds I know would sit in that stadium. Every blue would, but no reds. If they did sit in it they'd no longer be a mate. as well as that I would rather change  sides & support Man United. That's how strongly I feel about a shared stadium. KEOIC set that design up, and in it's very name 'Keep everton in OUR city" is an insult to LFC anyway, so they're saying we should spend hundreds of millions to build their design from a company who's very name insults us. They're fucking thick, I hate them and I will laugh if anyone from KEOIC gets killed.

[Liverbird 2010]

The bitter bogeyed one is doing a bit of moonlighting on the sly to get some extra cash for the new stadium

[Sir Harvest Fields]

And this:



is just embarrassing...

looks like shite? wtf is with the medievel tower? its just a pathetic attempt to get a good stadium cos they will never be able to afford one of their own

[ttnbd]

Easier to raise £175 million than £350 million.

It is next to impossible for a technically insolvent company to borrow anything, especially when they own very little of their tangible assets and those they do is already providing security for other loans.

Anyway, why do people seem to think that the financing for the stadium and Hicks' attempts to get financing to buy out Gillett is mutually inclusive of each other?  The money for the stadium will be borrowed by the club, not the owners.  The main issue is to ensure that during the construction period there is a minimal impact of the general running of the club, this was the reason why the board were looking for investors originally.

[xerxes]

looks like shite? wtf is with the medievel tower?

Reminds them of their glory years

[Liverbird 2010]

The money for the stadium will be borrowed by the club, not the owners.  The main issue is to ensure that during the construction period there is a minimal impact of the general running of the club, this was the reason why the board were looking for investors originally.

Tim can you explain why Hicks thinks we are worth 1 billion when the stadium is finished, if the money is from loans
They borrowed the money to buy us and will do for the stadium (if we ever get 1) so how can they make a profit when everything will be owed to the banks?

[ttnbd]

The valuation is the enterprise value of the club.  The valuation includes the debt as there would be an asset matched against it.  He will also be looking at the Net Present Value of the club based on future cashflow/profit projections.  This is where the new stadium is key.  Assuming the new stadium opens and maximises it's potential it could add in excess of £50m per year in profit to the club.  Assuming this continued over the medium term (say 10 years) it will have generated in excess of £500m extra than it would before the stadium was built.  Yes the debt would need paying off but each year that debt would decrease and the profits and free cashflow would increase accordingly.  This is what he is hoping to cash in on if he can't afford to run the club himself.  The new stadium is the key as it opens up vast potential for making extra money/profit.

[Liverbird 2010]

The valuation is the enterprise value of the club.  The valuation includes the debt as there would be an asset matched against it.  He will also be looking at the Net Present Value of the club based on future cashflow/profit projections.  This is where the new stadium is key.  Assuming the new stadium opens and maximises it's potential it could add in excess of £50m per year in profit to the club.  Assuming this continued over the medium term (say 10 years) it will have generated in excess of £500m extra than it would before the stadium was built.  Yes the debt would need paying off but each year that debt would decrease and the profits and free cashflow would increase accordingly.  This is what he is hoping to cash in on if he can't afford to run the club himself.  The new stadium is the key as it opens up vast potential for making extra money/profit.

Thanx for explaining Tim.

Get voting people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/poll/2008/may/28/liverpool.everton

[Sir Harvest Fields]

The valuation is the enterprise value of the club.  The valuation includes the debt as there would be an asset matched against it.  He will also be looking at the Net Present Value of the club based on future cashflow/profit projections.  This is where the new stadium is key.  Assuming the new stadium opens and maximises it's potential it could add in excess of £50m per year in profit to the club.  Assuming this continued over the medium term (say 10 years) it will have generated in excess of £500m extra than it would before the stadium was built.  Yes the debt would need paying off but each year that debt would decrease and the profits and free cashflow would increase accordingly.  This is what he is hoping to cash in on if he can't afford to run the club himself.  The new stadium is the key as it opens up vast potential for making extra money/profit.

shite. lets hope the fat fuck dont get to keep his maulers on the club then.