Topic: FC Barcelona

[Xxavi]

The bottom and mid table teams in the Premier look better the past few years because the teams at the top have regressed. 

Precisely. A great team would toy with them week in, week out. The fact that Arsenal, Liverpool, ManU etc. struggle vs them have more to do with the gigantic drop in their quality since 2009. One can simply compare the squads of these teams with the ones in the 2004-2006 era. Hardly any player from current teams would get into those teams.

ManU had prime Rooney, Tevez, C. Ronaldo, RVN etc. at the time in attack. Up until this season, ManU were hoping for Rashford, Lingard, old Rooney, Fellaini and Ibra last season to do the same job. In defense, they had Evra, Vidic and Rio Ferdinand. Nowadays, they have a revolving door of defenders none of them close to the defenders they had back then. Of course ManU struggled vs midtable teams, they became one after losing so many great players.

Or take Liverpool as an example. Alonso-Masch-Gerrard in midfield, Reina in goal and Carragher etc. in defense.

[Samie]

Mane and Salah would get into Rafa's teams easily.  We had piss poor wide options back then. 

[Xxavi]

You're right, but they would need to bolster their squads if they were to do so, particularly if they wish to perform in Europe.
Would you agree?

My friend, Madrid and Bayern's squads have been fantastic over the years. So was Barca's up until recently. Madrid's bench players like Isco (and he was a bench player), Ozil, Di Maria would have been some of the best players in England. Bayern, too, had a superb squad.

However, I want to say that I am baffled that you even bring this up. As if there is a special requirement for England. This is totally and utterly laughable. The likes of Mourinho and Conte last season won their league titles with 14 players. Reading your post, it seems like in other leagues, you need 11 players only, which is all Bayern, Atletico M, Barca, Real Madrid, PSG and Juventus have, whereas in England, you need 30. It hasn't been the case at all. Even before Mourinho and Conte, Alex Ferguson won his league title with a fairly mediocre squad that barely had 10 good players in it (a severely aged group of players).

[Gifted Right Foot]

Shit club.  Forza Zizou. 

[Xxavi]

^On that note, I'd like to add that Rafa Benitez had a superb first 11 at Liverpool, but a fairly limited squad. Yet, he managed to get Liverpool to perform both in the league and in Europe. People have to stop considering football in Premiership as a completely different sport to what it is in other countries. There are differences, but not that big enough to make outlandish claims.

Rafa's Liverpool thrashed Madrid 4-0, and did also very well in what is a high competitive AND top quality league title race. Every team competing for the title had 3-4 world class players. In recent years, in Premiership, there barely was a total of 5 world class players.

[vivabobbygraham]

Interesting debate, has anyone mentioned that Barcelona are a shithouse club of miserable c*nts? Just wondering if all angles had been covered here.

I like this angle

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Yeah we can all remember when Di maria tore the arse out of the P.League..

A true revelation he was.

[The 1989 Brit Awards]

Yeah we can all remember when Di maria tore the arse out of the P.League..

A true revelation he was.

and Özil, not criticism of him whatsoever

[idontknow]

No he has always been like this. Unbearable at times with his closed in views and condescending posts.

This is why I like him, he reminds me of my dad.

[Something Worse]

I like this angle

I'm just worried important parts of the debate are going unnoticed

[lorenzo]

^On that note, I'd like to add that Rafa Benitez had a superb first 11 at Liverpool, but a fairly limited squad. Yet, he managed to get Liverpool to perform both in the league and in Europe. People have to stop considering football in Premiership as a completely different sport to what it is in other countries. There are differences, but not that big enough to make outlandish claims.

Rafa's Liverpool thrashed Madrid 4-0, and did also very well in what is a high competitive AND top quality league title race. Every team competing for the title had 3-4 world class players. In recent years, in Premiership, there barely was a total of 5 world class players.

Rafa's team beat you

[Elmo!]

As mentioned, Bayern, PSG, Atletico, Real, Barca and Bayern.  That's 6 teams.

You've said Bayern twice....

[pinky]

You've said Bayern twice....

That's how good they are.

[Elmo!]

That's how good they are.

They'd rund away with first and second place in the PL. 

[Skeeve]

Presumably they meant Juventus as the premise is that any of the top teams from the other leagues would have walked the premiership, despite PSG not even managing to walk the undeniably weaker french league.

[The North Bank]

You've said Bayern twice....

didnt Shankly once say "there are two great teams on Merseyside. Liverpool and Liverpool reserves. "

[The North Bank]

Only Real Madrid would walk the premier league. Bayern PSG Juve and Barca would be favourites with the bookies, but they could do a Man city, favourites every season and won fuck all for 3. They have enough shortcomings to get exposed in this league. Real would boss it though, win it by 10 points +

[ElCapo]

BTW, Barca are in decline too. But that's not because Sociedad suddenly became better because of a more even TV money or something. Not even because the English clubs are richer. But primarily because of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi declining. Great players decline, and if you don't invest well and replace them, you are in trouble. Some would argue that Barca would have bought replacements easily if it weren't for the English TV money. Barca never did buy replacements easily, we were in a crisis trying to find a way out before Ronaldinho joined the club. Even Beckham rejected us (thank God!).

But overall, Spanish league has been competitive primarily because of the talent it produced domestically. Spanish clubs have been selling their star players to English ones for well over a decade (see Alonso's transfer to Liverpool). With good coaching, setups and youth academies, however, these departures have been addressed year after year with new young players and a great coaching. This summer alone, English clubs have spent 1.4-1.5 billion on players, whereas Spanish ones spent around 0.6 billion, 2.5 times less! And of that 0.6m, 230m was spent by Barca alone to replace Neymar. La Liga has been a selling league for 10-15 years now.

With so much financial advantage, you'd think English teams would have left Atletico Madrid, Sevilla, Athletic Bilbao etc. far behind. But have they? Evidently not. Atletico sold Filipe Luis and Costa to Chelsea but remained a better team. They still are. There is a lot more to football than the wage bill and transfer sums. Eventually, it may take a toll on Spanish teams if they stop producing talent at the same rate to compensate the departures. At the moment, it is coping well.

The other day Spanish U21 team thrashed Italy U21 team 3-0. A new crop of players is coming up, and they seem to be decent, too.

This is it in a nutshell.   If the league argument gets tiring, take a look at exhibit B -> the national teams.    England are not better than a quarterfinal at the moment, and haven't been so going back 27 years.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Presumably they meant Juventus as the premise is that any of the top teams from the other leagues would have walked the premiership, despite PSG not even managing to walk the undeniably weaker french league.

was gonna say, they couldn't even win it last year ... not sure about Atletico either

[Skeeve]

I thought the always tedious Xxavvi had flounced off the other day anyway, didn't bloody stay away very long did he, maybe instead of skiiing trips like the manc he had been planning to visit florida?

[Xabi Gerrard]

This is it in a nutshell.   If the league argument gets tiring, take a look at exhibit B -> the national teams.    England are not better than a quarterfinal at the moment, and haven't been so going back 27 years.

The English national team was no better than QF level even when the PL clubs were the best in Europe in the 00s. Just sayin.

[LFC when it suits]

You've said Bayern twice....

I meant Juve as the 6th. All 6 would win the Premier League with ease.

Presumably they meant Juventus as the premise is that any of the top teams from the other leagues would have walked the premiership, despite PSG not even managing to walk the undeniably weaker french league.

was gonna say, they couldn't even win it last year ... not sure about Atletico either

PSG didn't win the French League last season because of who they were competing with. The Monaco of last season would have won the Premier league with ease also. Didn't mention them because they their squad has been dismantled.

[Chris~]

So you believe they'd have gotten a comfortable gap between themselves and the 93 points Chelsea got?

[LFC when it suits]

So you believe they'd have gotten a comfortable gap between them and the 93 points Chelsea got?

Their attack would have blown away most of the dross in the Premier League in the same way Spurs and City couldn't live with their attack last season. The level of the Premier League is shown by the performances of the English clubs in Europe over the last 7-8 years. It's only slightly better than the Italian league with Juve being far superior to any team in the league.

[Alan_X]

I think this hasn't been accurate for a number of years.

Spanish La Liga tv rights deal 2016
On 06 May 2015 Royal Spanish Football Federation (RSFF) has suspended all Spanish league games after 16th May due to clash with Spanish government due to new tv rights deal which was signed at the end of April 2015. With the current tv rights setup in Spain clubs were able to negotiate their own broadcasting rights deal unlike England where a more centralised system is installed and premier league sell tv rights of all 20 clubs collectively and income is shared equally between all 20 clubs in England top flight football.

When Premier League signed a new 2016-19 TV rights deal in February 2015 worth over £5 billion just from domestic rights sale and premier league are expecting another £3 billion from oversees rights which means starting from 2016-17 season bottom premier league club will earn around £100 million in tv rights money and thats way more than champions of the top leagues around europe. So after intense 6-month negotiations in spain a new legislation was passed at the end of April which will come into play start from 2016 season where La Liga will sell its TV rights collectively for all clubs and the income will be shared equally between clubs. Unlike the current system where clubs sell their rights independently causing massive difference income of top 2 and the rest of the clubs in spanish top flight.

Last season Real Madrid and Barcelona earn around €140 million each while champions Atletico Madrid only got €42 million and the bottom club Almeria got €18 million only. So what is the new legislation and how it will work plus why there is a clash between Spanish FA vs Government ?

New Spanish La Liga TV Rights Sale & Distribution Legislation 2016:

On 30th April, Spanish government approved a new law and legislation governing the sale of television rights in Spanish football top two divisions and the equal income distribution model. The new law will come into play from 2016 and here are some of the points you need to know.

La Liga will sell the collective domestic & oversees broadcasting rights to the highest bidder starting from 2016-17 season.
93% of tv rights (both domestic and oversees) money will go to Spanish top 2 division (La Liga & Liga Adelante).
3.5% will be used as parachute payments for clubs who get relegated from Spanish top division.
2% will be for administration and operations of Spanish FA
1% for the league system and 0.5% for Women football.
La Liga portion of the money will be distributed among 20 clubs fairly equally with the following model.
TV Rights Money Distribution Model For La Liga:

From the 93% rights money allocated division I & II, 10% goes to division II ( Liga Adelante) teams while rest of the money will be distributed among 20 La Liga teams according to following formula.

50% Equal share for all 20 clubs in La Liga
25% Merit money based on how the clubs finish in the table in last 3 years.
25% According to resource generation ability of clubs


So the new distribution system is pretty much similar to what English Premier League installed but the biggest difference being one major clause in the new legislation which states that no club should get less money with the new system what they are getting right now. Which means Real Madrid and Barcelona will still be making around somewhere €140 million a year.


http://www.totalsportek.com/money/spanish-la-liga-tv-rights-sale-equal-distribution-model/

[LFC when it suits]

So the new distribution system is pretty much similar to what English Premier League installed but the biggest difference being one major clause in the new legislation which states that no club should get less money with the new system what they are getting right now. Which means Real Madrid and Barcelona will still be making around somewhere €140 million a year.


http://www.totalsportek.com/money/spanish-la-liga-tv-rights-sale-equal-distribution-model/

The keep Real and Barca at the top clause.

[Miltonred]

Actually mate, there is statistical evidence to show this is the case. From the FT:

I don't really know how anyone could argue with that.

Just to clarify - it's not the only reason why Barca, Madrid and Munich do better than the top English clubs, but it's a huge advantage they have on top of having better players, no 2nd domestic cup competition and a winter break.

That doesn't tell you anything about whether the league has got harder as you specifically asserted. If you can show me that in the mid to late 00's English top teams spent longer leading games by two goals than they do know, that would support your assertion.

[Xabi Gerrard]

That doesn't tell you anything about whether the league has got harder as you specifically asserted. If you can show me that in the mid to late 00's English top teams spent longer leading games by two goals than they do know, that would support your assertion.

Ah fair enough, sorry I was responding to how the Spanish giants have an advantage over PL clubs, my mistake. I don't have figures for the PL back in the 00s. As long as everyone can acknowledge though that;

a) the Spanish giants currently spend much longer at 2+ goals up in their leagues than the top PL teams do (as per the facts from the FT)

and

b) that being 2+ goals up for prolonged periods in your league helps in Europe due to being able to play huge periods of your league games in 2nd gear

then I think we're all on the same page.

[Xxavi]

Spanish La Liga tv rights deal 2016
On 06 May 2015 Royal Spanish Football Federation (RSFF) has suspended all Spanish league games after 16th May due to clash with Spanish government due to new tv rights deal which was signed at the end of April 2015. With the current tv rights setup in Spain clubs were able to negotiate their own broadcasting rights deal unlike England where a more centralised system is installed and premier league sell tv rights of all 20 clubs collectively and income is shared equally between all 20 clubs in England top flight football.

When Premier League signed a new 2016-19 TV rights deal in February 2015 worth over £5 billion just from domestic rights sale and premier league are expecting another £3 billion from oversees rights which means starting from 2016-17 season bottom premier league club will earn around £100 million in tv rights money and thats way more than champions of the top leagues around europe. So after intense 6-month negotiations in spain a new legislation was passed at the end of April which will come into play start from 2016 season where La Liga will sell its TV rights collectively for all clubs and the income will be shared equally between clubs. Unlike the current system where clubs sell their rights independently causing massive difference income of top 2 and the rest of the clubs in spanish top flight.

Last season Real Madrid and Barcelona earn around €140 million each while champions Atletico Madrid only got €42 million and the bottom club Almeria got €18 million only. So what is the new legislation and how it will work plus why there is a clash between Spanish FA vs Government ?

New Spanish La Liga TV Rights Sale & Distribution Legislation 2016:

On 30th April, Spanish government approved a new law and legislation governing the sale of television rights in Spanish football top two divisions and the equal income distribution model. The new law will come into play from 2016 and here are some of the points you need to know.

La Liga will sell the collective domestic & oversees broadcasting rights to the highest bidder starting from 2016-17 season.
93% of tv rights (both domestic and oversees) money will go to Spanish top 2 division (La Liga & Liga Adelante).
3.5% will be used as parachute payments for clubs who get relegated from Spanish top division.
2% will be for administration and operations of Spanish FA
1% for the league system and 0.5% for Women football.
La Liga portion of the money will be distributed among 20 clubs fairly equally with the following model.
TV Rights Money Distribution Model For La Liga:

From the 93% rights money allocated division I & II, 10% goes to division II ( Liga Adelante) teams while rest of the money will be distributed among 20 La Liga teams according to following formula.

50% Equal share for all 20 clubs in La Liga
25% Merit money based on how the clubs finish in the table in last 3 years.
25% According to resource generation ability of clubs


So the new distribution system is pretty much similar to what English Premier League installed but the biggest difference being one major clause in the new legislation which states that no club should get less money with the new system what they are getting right now. Which means Real Madrid and Barcelona will still be making around somewhere €140 million a year.


http://www.totalsportek.com/money/spanish-la-liga-tv-rights-sale-equal-distribution-model/

Thanks for posting. The TV money distribution is still not quite what it is in England, however, it is getting there, and in several years, it will get there. How? The new La Liga TV deal has also been the largest in history. Every club in the league will receive a lot more, whereas Barca and Madrid won't see much change to their current levels (won't go down, but won't go up either).

I'd be interested if somebody could find the actual TV money distribution for the past season, for example.

[CraigDS]

Thanks for posting. The TV money distribution is still not quite what it is in England, however, it is getting there, and in several years, it will get there. How? The new La Liga TV deal has also been the largest in history. Every club in the league will receive a lot more, whereas Barca and Madrid won't see much change to their current levels (won't go down, but won't go up either).

I'd be interested if somebody could find the actual TV money distribution for the past season, for example.

Not sure on exactly how accurate it is but gives some idea....

http://www.totalsportek.com/football/spanish-la-liga-prize-money/

Think depends on the wording on them still getting the same amount. Does this come out of the equal share allocation first and then merit payments based on league success on top or does it just mean the overall figure.

[Xxavi]

Not sure on exactly how accurate it is but gives some idea....

http://www.totalsportek.com/football/spanish-la-liga-prize-money/

Think depends on the wording on them still getting the same amount. Does this come out of the equal share allocation first and then merit payments based on league success on top or does it just mean the overall figure.

Well even that table looks a lot better than what conman posted in this thread. It is going that way, and I was sure that I read the new distribution is pretty much the same as in England.

The clause that Barca and Madrid don't take an immediate hit to their budget is somewhat understandable, but that clause would be irrelevant in 1-2 years, if it isn't already so. Yet, you won't stop seeing the cliched arguments about TV money distribution in Spain even in 5 years time. It's like the foreigner lower tax argument that persisted for years even after it was abolished in Spain and applied only to foreigners to begin with. People were asking if Alonso went to Madrid because of lower tax etc.

Sometimes, even if the real reasons for balance of footballing power in Europe is so clear, people want to find a more elaborate reasoning.

[CrasherKid79]

I sense a Suarez blow up sometime this season. I don't for one minute believe he's been rehabilitated. It's one thing curbing it in the salad days of MSN and winning trebles, but a season more of frustration and the old impulses will return 😤

[afc tukrish]

I sense a Suarez blow up sometime this season. I don't for one minute believe he's been rehabilitated. It's one thing curbing it in the salad days of MSN and winning trebles, but a season more of frustration and the old impulses will return 😤

Ear salad?

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

As mentioned, Bayern, PSG, Atletico, Real, Barca and Bayern.  That's 6 teams.

I think our current team with Klopp, would walk the Bundesliga

[Xabi Gerrard]

I think our current team with Klopp, would walk the Bundesliga

We'd win every league apart from England and Spain at a canter.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

We'd win every league apart from England and Spain at a canter.

Absolutely

[LFC when it suits]

I think our current team with Klopp, would walk the Bundesliga

I don't know about that. Can't see us getting more points on the board than Bayern. We seem to struggle against the smaller teams which is what any domestic league is mostly comprised of. Can see us finishing 2nd though. But I think we would smash Bayern over two legs. Think we would smash any of those 6 teams over two legs. I don't fear any of them.

[ElCapo]

I think our current team with Klopp, would walk the Bundesliga

Are you mad?

[ElCapo]

I don't know about that. Can't see us getting more points on the board than Bayern. We seem to struggle against the smaller teams which is what any domestic league is mostly comprised of. Can see us finishing 2nd though. But I think we would smash Bayern over two legs. Think we would smash any of those 6 teams over two legs. I don't fear any of them.

So basically you'd beat any team in Europe, except maybe Madrid?   So LFC will make the CL final this year?

[Samie]

You did see our game in the Audi Cup right? And we weren't even trying lol.