Topic: Chasing the Title

[SinceSixtyFive]

Got to be realistic here mate. They know what it takes to win the league. And they are more than capable of winning every league game from now til the end.

I don't get this sort of stuff either to be honest. "Realistic" to expect any team to win all of their remaining games? Don't think so. But, its all about attitudes and opinions to be fair so each to their own and all that.

[Sharado]

Got to be realistic here mate. They know what it takes to win the league. And they are more than capable of winning every league game from now til the end.

We're currently top, having our best season in ages and they have the harder - and busier - fixtures in the run in. I'm not entirely sure you are being realistic, you're being pessemistic but that's not the same thing. If we get maximum points from our next 3 we'll be favourites. Indeed, if we get maximum points from our next 2 then by the time city play crystal palace away they'll be feeling enormous pressure to get a result against a team they've dropped points to during the last 2 times they played them.

[Spartacus.]

It's possible City win every game here on in but it's just as possible the don't - football games are not won on paper, when they last dropped points people didn't see it coming and no doubt 'on paper' they should have won. 

[deano2727]

If City win all their remaining league games, including their 3rd match against Spurs in 11 days and that Old Trafford game

-then fair play to them, they will be worthy and brilliant champions.

I don't think they will though.

My bet is that Spurs game will be drawn, and probably the Man U game as well - but let's do our bit first!

They might not have to. We have an almighty task in winning our remaining 7, particularly the next 3 which you would look at and say all have potential for dropped points. If, and only if we win those three, I think we can then start talking about pressure being on City. At the moment, the pressure is firmly on both of us, more so us right now. Lose one and its probably over. And we have difficult fixtures too. City have Fulham, Cardiff and Palace over those same 3 games. We simply must match City over these games and you would assume it'll be three wins. Perhaps Palace could take points off them, but you wouldn't bank on it.

Match them or better them over the next 3, I think we do it. Pressure on.

[Sharado]

Match them or better them over the next 3, I think we do it. Pressure on.

Spot on. I really think this is what it comes down to. We've got more than enough quality to see off our final 4 games, even with pretty heavy rotation if necessary. The run city have post palace is seriously tricky. All guns blazing these next 3 games.

[Red_Rich]

It's possible City win every game here on in but it's just as possible the don't - football games are not won on paper, when they last dropped points people didn't see it coming and no doubt 'on paper' they should have won.

Exactly.  On paper we should have buried Fulham 6-0 ... but we didn't.  We edged it.

Altough I can't see Fulham beating City, it's not beyond the realms of reality to imagine a silly draw of some sort.

[Gerry83]

I'm not sure we can be that upset if City win every game from now until the end of the season - won't that be some sort of record? It would take a phenomenal effort to have pipped them to the title if they've won something like their last 14 on the bounce or whatever it would be by then.

Its highly unlikely we will win all of ours and unlikely but less so that they will win all of theirs. Therefore it probably comes down to who blinks first which is why the next 3 are massive. Win those and it may just be that we have a little room for maneuver going into the last 4 games. Although to some it'll seem like hocus pocus but i wouldnt underestimate how much the title hinges on the psychological battle between the two teams - and to be pessimistic about it in true RAWK style, it may well just be our undoing.

Thus the vicious circle of expectation / pressure / failure resumes.

[deano2727]

Well, Fulham are playing them at the perfect time - and its away.  They need points and they need them right away. I dont expect them to get anything, but it has come at the best time for us, especially given we just beat them as well. Same applies to Cardiff. They need points but not as urgently. We will likely have the other end of the stick against them where they need points urgently and we play them away (unless of course, they win a few upcoming games, hopefully City being one  ).

Fascinating title race, this. Let's do our part and keep it going.

[Original]

Fulham are a far better team than their position suggests in my humble opinion, just think they were very poorly coached, which is surprising considering how highly i rate Ranieri.  Scott Parker is very highly regarded as a coach by all accounts, they have a quality centre forward who can score goals and i'm sure will give the man city defence problems (even though he didn't have a sniff against Virgil).  Our man Ryan will be a man on a mission i'm sure of that, pick the same midfield of Seri and Angiussa to try and dominate physically.  Get sessesegon on the ball plenty and the other lad who impressed against us who's name escapes me. 

Stranger things have happened.

[Yiannis]

Fulham need points as much as Huddersfield do i.e. on paper. They both know they are already down. The only surprise for me will be if City don't score at least 3 past them.

[deano2727]

Fulham need points as much as Huddersfield do i.e. on paper. They both know they are already down. The only surprise for me will be if City don't score at least 3 past them.

They need a minimum of 4 wins with 7 left to play. After City, they have Watford, Everton, Bournemouth, Cardiff, Wolves and Newcastle. You could barely pick a better set of games if you tried, a 6 pointer in there too with Cardiff. Its unlikely they stay up. Highly unlikely. Point is, if they want to, they need something fast. They'll be up for it. Theyll still believe. If they are within 5 points or so come Cardiff they have every chance. They kept us to a 2-1, why not do one better against City?

Not to say I think they'll do it. But they have every reason to fight hard for the points still. To say otherwise is nonsense.

[JackWard33]

They need a minimum of 4 wins with 7 left to play. After City, they have Watford, Everton, Bournemouth, Cardiff, Wolves and Newcastle. You could barely pick a better set of games if you tried, a 6 pointer in there too with Cardiff. Its unlikely they stay up. Highly unlikely. Point is, if they want to, they need something fast. They'll be up for it. Theyll still believe. If they are within 5 points or so come Cardiff they have every chance. They kept us to a 2-1, why not do one better against City?

We played a very odd first half against Fulham - probably down to fatigue but we were pretty poor considering how clearly they were asking to get attacked and how bad they are at the back.
Sadly its a great match up for City because they can't defend and yet will try to - the thing that allows City to rack up so many points is they go out and just pour it on against the dross from the first whistle, a ton of their games against the bottom 12 are done by half time.
So anything can happen for sure - its football - but I wouldn't stay in and watch it put it that way

[Gerry83]

They need a minimum of 4 wins with 7 left to play. After City, they have Watford, Everton, Bournemouth, Cardiff, Wolves and Newcastle. You could barely pick a better set of games if you tried, a 6 pointer in there too with Cardiff. Its unlikely they stay up. Highly unlikely. Point is, if they want to, they need something fast. They'll be up for it. Theyll still believe. If they are within 5 points or so come Cardiff they have every chance. They kept us to a 2-1, why not do one better against City?

Not to say I think they'll do it. But they have every reason to fight hard for the points still. To say otherwise is nonsense.

Its one thing fighting for the points but having the ability on the pitch is entirely different. We should have put them to the sword as well. We have to hope City have an off day but they've two of the form players in the league at the minute in Ageuro and Sterling so its a long shot... but as pointed out stranger things have happened. Its an additional game with possibilities such as red cards / injuries etc.

[Red_Rich]

BTW  Warnock will rest nearly all of his team against City on Wednesday. Guaranteed. He'll throw it.  Like that time Mick McCarthy changed his entire 11 at Old Trafford.

They have Chelsea at home on Sunday (winnable when you consider how indifferent Chelsea have been ... and it's a home game) but more importantly they have Burnley next Saturday ... a massive 6-pointer for them.

So he'll get his own back for us resting players in that Fulham game a few years ago when he was Sheffield United manager.  Which is fair enough I suppose.

[MaxJ]

Got to be realistic here mate. They know what it takes to win the league. And they are more than capable of winning every league game from now til the end.

Realistic? OK, so City have accumulated 2.07 points per game so far this season in away games, and 2.81 at home. We are 2.18 away and 2.73 at home.

The best way to look at the remainder of the season objectively is by using the information we have available to us to make assumptions. If you forecast the PPG achieved so far this season over the remaining games then you end up with both teams having achieved 93 points, when rounding to the nearest point.

Now, we all know the season won’t go exactly that way, but I think that’s a much better way of looking at it, than saying “they know what it takes to win the league” and “I can only see them dropping points against United”.

You could also make the argument that we have a more favourable run, and actually it’s more likely that City will perform below their form to date this season given the commitments they have outside of the Premier League, but then we’re moving into the realms of opinion. On that note, I disagree with some who are saying that Palace will be a hard game; they sit 19th in the home form league table and I think Brighton is the only remaining away where they will be caused real problems, apart from United.

To me it all comes down to whether you’re the kind of person who is led by logic, or you tend to trust your own feelings of optimism or pessimism more. Certainly, it seems that a lot of football fans are the latter, but then I guess emotion gets in the way of logic…

I’m not a statistician, so can’t say much for the validity of the following sources, but both have City as favourites albeit to different degrees.
http://www.sportsclubstats.com/England/Premier.html
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/soccer-predictions/premier-league/

[Sharado]

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/England/Premier.html
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/soccer-predictions/premier-league/

The 538 one is really interesting, in that the percentage is swung 2/3 city's way but the stats on the expected wins/draws/losses only has to be swung a nudge in a different direction to rotate those odds totally the other way. What I mean by that is city won't finish the season on 4.7 losses and 3.2 draws. So if that becomes 3 draws and 5 losses then all of a sudden it'd swing massively back in our favour if our projected 1.7 losses holds at 1 and our projected 8.3 draws holds on just 8. So I guess what it tells you - away from all this waffle - is what the actual league table tells you....It's going to be seriously bloody tight!

[Crosby Nick]

We played a very odd first half against Fulham - probably down to fatigue but we were pretty poor considering how clearly they were asking to get attacked and how bad they are at the back.
Sadly its a great match up for City because they can't defend and yet will try to - the thing that allows City to rack up so many points is they go out and just pour it on against the dross from the first whistle, a ton of their games against the bottom 12 are done by half time.
So anything can happen for sure - its football - but I wouldn't stay in and watch it put it that way

I know Leicester and Palace aren’t ‘dross’, they’re a level up from that but when City lost to both of them, and also Newcastle and think they were all lost from a winning position.

[JackWard33]

I know Leicester and Palace aren’t ‘dross’, they’re a level up from that but when City lost to both of them, and also Newcastle and think they were all lost from a winning position.

Yeah pretty amazing - and it does point to how they have a clear plan to go full out to get the game won and sometimes run out of gas if the team survives the first 60. The problem is most managers respond to that by sitting deep and trying to survive when it’s not the right plan - they should all watch tapes of the Newcastle game, drop men behind the ball sure but contest the midfield at all times. You can watch the Fulham game and if in the first 5 minutes it’s easy for City to get possession up to their box then they’re fucked

[lionel_messias]

They might not have to. We have an almighty task in winning our remaining 7, particularly the next 3 which you would look at and say all have potential for dropped points. If, and only if we win those three, I think we can then start talking about pressure being on City. At the moment, the pressure is firmly on both of us, more so us right now. Lose one and its probably over. And we have difficult fixtures too. City have Fulham, Cardiff and Palace over those same 3 games. We simply must match City over these games and you would assume it'll be three wins. Perhaps Palace could take points off them, but you wouldn't bank on it.

Match them or better them over the next 3, I think we do it. Pressure on.

Depends if you are a glass half EMPTY or FULL kind of person, I guess? Our form this season suggests we could reasonably expect to
beat every team who are still to line-up against us, given both Spurs and Chelsea are below us in the table (and all the rest way below naturally).

But because of the fast pace and physicality of the league, points can be dropped. How close did we come to drawing the game with Fulham, many would have felt that was GAME OVER if we don't get that penalty.

I agree with you though, we have to beat Spurs and then Southampton to maintain that pressure until mid-April when City have Spurs and United; at the end of a crazy run of high-intensity games.

*Would love to see Spurs beat Man City in their new home ground in the Champions League, that would be pressure on the return leg and would also fatigue our title rivals for that league match.

[Timbo's Goals]

If City win all their remaining league games, including their 3rd match against Spurs in 11 days and that Old Trafford game

-then fair play to them, they will be worthy and brilliant champions.

!

No. Absolutely not - whether they do achieve what you say or not they will remain nothing more than cheats. Nothing more nothing less. Fucking cheats. Nothing they have achieved or will achieve under this obscene regime has any value or merit as far as I am concerned and I have to say as a lifelong traditional football fan and LFC fan it grieves me hugely to hear a supporter of our incredible football club lavishing so much as a modicum of praise upon what for me is nothing more than an obscenity and a deplorable blot on the football landscape within which I have been a minor, yet as is the case with any true football fan, a still significant part this past 60 odd years in my own instance.

[Spartacus.]

No. Absolutely not - whether they do achieve what you say or not they will remain nothing more than cheats. Nothing more nothing less. Fucking cheats. Nothing they have achieved or will achieve under this obscene regime has any value or merit as far as I am concerned and I have to say as a lifelong traditional football fan and LFC fan it grieves me hugely to hear a supporter of our incredible football club lavishing so much as a modicum of praise upon what for me is nothing more than an obscenity and a deplorable blot on the football landscape within which I have been a minor, yet as is the case with any true football fan, a still significant part this past 60 odd years in my own instance.

Not your second team then? ;-)

[Timbo's Goals]

Not your second team then? ;-)

So you can actually be lighthearted about them?

Incredible. And far beyond my comprehension.

The feelings of disgust and contempt I have for City and the manner in which they have arrived at their current status preclude me from any such luxury. Thank fuck.   

[markedasred]

So you can actually be lighthearted about them?

Incredible. And far beyond my comprehension.

The feelings of disgust and contempt I have for City and the manner in which they have arrived at their current status preclude me from any such luxury. Thank fuck.

Does this situation (and let's be clear, I am with you 100%) predate Abramovich and Chelsea?. What really should have happened is that what they did should have been investigated from the off. I even struggle with the notion of him passing the fit and proper test. It gave the green light for the Manc buyers to get in and make it a vanity project as far as I can see. And this on the day Gordon Taylor stands down.

[Uncle Ronnie]

Don't forget that Shinawatra was the owner before Abu Dhabi. Human rights abuse isn't something that appears to matter to the Premier League / FA

[Red Squiggle]

That's the spirit 

They've dropped points in 5 games this season, including 4 losses (plus another 1 of each in the CL), so they're more than capable of dropping points in numerous games between now and the end of the season.

Wolves away (D), Liverpool away (D), Chelsea away (L), Crystal Palace home (L), Leicester away (L), Newcastle away (L) - six, with five of those being away from home. That mid to late April run of Spurs away, Palace away, Spurs at home twice, then Man United away and then Burnley away... if they get maximum points from that then fair play. I'm knackered just typing it out!

[Alisson Wonderland]

They need a minimum of 4 wins with 7 left to play. After City, they have Watford, Everton, Bournemouth, Cardiff, Wolves and Newcastle. You could barely pick a better set of games if you tried, a 6 pointer in there too with Cardiff. Its unlikely they stay up. Highly unlikely. Point is, if they want to, they need something fast. They'll be up for it. Theyll still believe. If they are within 5 points or so come Cardiff they have every chance. They kept us to a 2-1, why not do one better against City?

Not to say I think they'll do it. But they have every reason to fight hard for the points still. To say otherwise is nonsense.

Fulham's previous great escape under the master tactician Hodgson began with a game against City.  City were 2-0 up at half time and Fulham were mathematically relegated at this point.  Fulham ended up winning 3-2 and stayed up that season.

Same again please

[Sharado]

Fulham's previous great escape under the master tactician Hodgson began with a game against City.  City were 2-0 up at half time and Fulham were mathematically relegated at this point.  Fulham ended up winning 3-2 and stayed up that season.

Same again please

If that happens this weekend I'm getting Scott Parker's name tattoed on my back. Or maybe just the McNasty's logo in tribute to his glorious youth.

[arab88]

If that happens this weekend I'm getting Scott Parker's name tattoed on my back. Or maybe just the McNasty's logo in tribute to his glorious youth.

 

[idontknow]

That wouldn't surprise me. He had a major bee in his bonnet with us after we destroyed his Aberdeen side in the European Cup in 1980.

Beat them home and away, 5-0 on agg.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/O3cSliGfLWo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/O3cSliGfLWo</a>

Plus, despite his 4 Scottish titles, the Cup Winners Cup, international management experience alongside Jock Stein, the biggest club in Europe didn't want him anywhere near them, and gave a man with no management experience at all the job.

We didn't want him, and he never ever got over that.

[Timbo's Goals]

Does this situation (and let's be clear, I am with you 100%) predate Abramovich and Chelsea?. What really should have happened is that what they did should have been investigated from the off. I even struggle with the notion of him passing the fit and proper test. It gave the green light for the Manc buyers to get in and make it a vanity project as far as I can see. And this on the day Gordon Taylor stands down.

Totally agree re your final comments.

as regards City v Chelsea. Felt similarly about them I guess but there are significant distinctions which for me take the City situation and my contempt for them to a different level entirely.

Firstly the respective positions of the clubs prior to the time the money began pouring in. Chelsea were already a side at or at least near the top level. City in contrast were nowhere.

Secondly the stadium. Stamford Bridge was already there. In stark contrast, the oil barons despite their vast wealth acquired for fuck all a ready made stadium built and paid for by you and me.

Third and most significant for me. The utter predetermined remorseless cynicism that has characterized the rise of City whereby the owners have used their obscene wealth to display utter contempt for any decent moral or footballing principles/purities/ethics in order to create an entity that as near as dammit guarantees success virtue of the uneven playing field their wealth strives to create.

As you look back on both, it is the almighty cynicism underpinning everything about City which sort of makes the Chesea/Abramovich model seem almost quaint in comparison.

I guess what irks almost as much is the apparent acceptance of the situation which many Liverpudlians and fellow football supporters - and most certainly and most worryingly the British sports media - appear to have concerning the City situation. The entire City situation stinks to high heaven and yet you wouldn't think so. Even re-reading Lional Messias's earlier comment above about 'City deserving it if they win all their games' makes my stomach churn.

[Bobinhood]

Well respectfully, i agree with most of that Timbo, the whole thing is a travesty that is different from anything ever seen before, a football team effectively a marketing tool/plaything for a oil state/king prepared to blow billions for having a laugh. Its horrible.

Having said that, the team on the pitch is not directly at fault for that, they are top quality pro's who went where the money was as would almost anyone, and they are one of the best squads ever assembled, and at times they produce truly magnificent football. There's no getting around it.

Luckily, we have a way to split the difference. its called Jurgen Klopp! Roll on the Reds.

[Red_Rich]

Interesting comment from Steve Nicol the other day saying the 1989 Liverpool team was totally spent, playing three games in six days ending with the famous loss to Arsenal.
He said they were running on empty and you could see that, so it's interesting when people think this is only a modern problem. Of course it's even worse now with the UEFA fixtures.

To be fair though, it was right after Hillsborough and was mental/emotional exhaustion as much as anything.  Many of those players back then have admitted that.

[Red_Rich]

Don't think I can cope if it goes to the final game of the season.

I'd be very surprised if it doesn't. 

[harleydanger]

It's basically a penalty shoot out from here. We can do all the mental gymnastics we want but it's a coin flip.

Whatever happens, the team that finishes 2nd will probably be the best team to finish 2nd in any of the big leagues, including a prime-era Barca who finished 9 points behind Real's 100-point team (going on to 100 point season the next year).

[SteveZissou]

Starting to get really excited about this weekend's fixtures. It's like when you've been away from that amazing woman for days and then you finally see her again.

[semit5]

Having said that, the team on the pitch is not directly at fault for that, they are top quality pro's who went where the money was as would almost anyone, and they are one of the best squads ever assembled, and at times they produce truly magnificent football. There's no getting around it.

I find them pretty dull to watch, there’s only so many times you can get excited about them cutting it back for a tap in.

[Red_Rich]

Ian Wright gave his honest match for match predictions the other day on that programme with Kenny's Daughter Kelly.

He was pretty realistic with his scores actually and was punching the air when it transpired that his scores meant the final table read ...

C Liverpool 95pts
2 Manchester City 94pts

He'd basically put us both down to win every game apart from us drawing 2-2 with Spurs and City drawing 1-1 with Spurs and 2-2 with United.

Sound. I'll take that.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Top lad Ian, he's been backing us since the summer. Hopefully he's right

[Number 7]

Fulham's previous great escape under the master tactician Hodgson began with a game against City.  City were 2-0 up at half time and Fulham were mathematically relegated at this point.  Fulham ended up winning 3-2 and stayed up that season.

Same again please

Fulham aren’t getting anything from City. They cannot defend. The reasons we only beat them 2-1 were because we were really tired from the midweek game against Bayern, a couple of players put in half arse performances and many of our attacks broke down because the final ball was either not played through or was very poor. Sane is going to destroy their fullback on the left side.

I expect City to beat them at least 4-0.

[lfc_col]

Top lad Ian, he's been backing us since the summer. Hopefully he's right

Yeah you can see he really wants us to win it