Topic: Racism in Football

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Steady.

I also clarified what I meant with another post after you flagged it up, you're probably one of the very few who read that and took it to mean instant literal death anyway.




This isn't new nor controversial when it comes to a footballer's life path, it's a common story with a lot of them - football career or a very low, limited quality of existence not far up from death. It's more you really, really don't like Sterling isn't it.

In a thread about racism you're posting some racist shite Surfer.

It has nothing to do with what I think of Sterling,you are the one who thinks hundreds of thousands of British Youths (Just BAME youth ?) life choices are Footballer or a very low limited quality of existence not far up from death.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

In a thread about racism you're posting some racist shite Surfer.

It has nothing to do with what I think of Sterling,you are the one who thinks hundreds of thousands of British Youths (Just BAME youth ?) life choices are Footballer or a very low limited quality of existence not far up from death.

Of course it has everything to do with Sterling, you're creating all this from a line in a post that highlighted his life situation, one he talked about in the Players' Tribune and focused on his determination to succeed.

I said footballers, you're the one going for BAME? Look in the mirror then.

For a footballer who doesn't make it, the stats are there on how many achieve a good quality of life.

All this started from Sterling who clearly admits in his own words he wasn't great at his studies, football was all he was about, and it's gone to this crap now. Nah.

[RyanBabel19]

Haha, what a whopper. Try a little more logic and a little less emotion.

You cannnot determine someones intent like that. You're saying someone is guilty first and innocence has to be proven rather than the other way around, just because it was a particular type of fruit. Amazing logic, that. We've already gone over how it doesn't matter what is in someones hands in the moment, but hey, fuck all that, just convict people already - they're obviously all racist anyway, all of them!

But going by this logic, throwing a banana/banana skin at a black player can practically NEVER get you in trouble regardless of intent because you cant prove it. Effectively that iconic image means nothing because 'you cant prove their intent'.

Got to say i couldn't disagree more, obviously not everyone is guilty of everything they are accused of and there are such things as coincidences but how the fuck do you prove racist intent with something like that? Short of them screaming some racist shit during the act, you cant really prove it can you?

If i'm a player and you throw that at me, you're either racist or incredibly ignorant, there's certain things you just dont do, more to the point throwing shit at another human being because football is fucking one of them. There are certain things you dont do or say to certain people, fuck your intent... just dont fucking do it in the first place

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

This one:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/raheem-sterling-england-it-was-all-a-dream

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Of course it has everything to do with Sterling, you're creating all this from a line in a post that highlighted his life situation, one he talked about in the Players' Tribune and focused on his determination to succeed.

I said footballers, you're the one going for BAME?  (NO I WANTED YOU TO CLARIFY) Look in the mirror then.

For a footballer who doesn't make it, the stats are there on how many achieve a good quality of life.

All this started from Sterling who clearly admits in his own words he wasn't great at his studies, football was all he was about, and it's gone to this crap now. Nah.

So millions of British Youths then    You ever considered a career in motivational speaking,you could roll out to the nations schools.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Nah, I'll just depress people and they won't have me anyway but you most definitely need help if this is your idea of engaging with a random stranger. Have a good day.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

But you're not some random,you're surfer. Fuck you generator.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

But you're not some random,you're surfer. Fuck you generator.

Oh I'm random to you pal and it'll stay that way.

[Johns_Barn]

https://www.google.com/search?client=tablet-android-samsung&q=danny+baker+twitter&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiDvL6nmY7iAhXGA2MBHTBHCUsQ1QIoAHoECA8QAQ&cshid=1557396680078&biw=800&bih=1280

So we can add Danny Baker to the mix. That he didn't post similar for any of willz'n'kate's THREE babies makes his self wallowing non apology all the more distasteful. How long before he is straight back into high paid employment?
The worst part is the sheer number of thunder c*nts in the comment banging on about snow flakes not getting the joke.

[Johns_Barn]

I am an intelligent BLACK MAN. That is who that fuck I am. Who the fuck are you to question my stance? What horse do you have in this?
If it were your child being mercilessly abused or it was something you had to deal with, I doubt you'd be telling your child to just stand there, somehow convincing the child, that "taking it on the chin" is in some way sticking it to the bigots. If you would, then you're an imbecile.

There is ZERO dignity to be gained from just standing there going along to get along to the chorus of ape noises and worse from inbreds only to get on stage, smiling and grinning for the cameras, dressed up in full penguin regalia with with the same administrators that have done absolutely nothing to help beyond rhetoric on posters.

Interesting that someone considered one of the best in their field lost their job in rugby within three days of going old testament with his views on homosexuals. He essentially quoted the bible...you know that book that people use to rally around after a terror event in westernised countries with the classic soundbite, "This is a christian country with christian values [...]". We still sing God save the Queen, and have religion deeply embedded into institutions. Yet somewhere down the line steadfastly sticking to the faith now gets one fired. This is schizophrenic, yet action was swift. Who in football has lost their job for similar behaviour of a racial kind with this level of decisiveness?

While Raheem is getting plaudits for how he has carried himself, his comments about staying on the pitch and taking zero action will please certain types. The same kind of types that like to drop the turn the other cheek crap or endlessly quoting Dr King, I Have a dream...(They miraculously never quote his other more radical stuff...funny that). They're the same types that plan on continuing to do nothing because nobody has forced them to. The players have the power but are acting neutered. There is another knock-on of making Raheem some kind of defacto spoke personal this: None of us know who his handlers are or the depth of his education on the subject matter is. Anyone that does walk off could be left to hang. It'll be seeing as Raheem doesn't think anyone should disrupt the game, why should you? RS will be the shield used to attack others for taking action instead of in-action. If I were playing football, especially in lower leagues, I'd be livid with his stance.

If you want their ears, disrupt the money flow.

**Edit** Isreal went new testament. This is (for me) even more disturbing.

[Johns_Barn]

Haha, what a whopper. Try a little more logic and a little less emotion.

You cannnot determine someones intent like that. You're saying someone is guilty first and innocence has to be proven rather than the other way around, just because it was a particular type of fruit. Amazing logic, that. We've already gone over how it doesn't matter what is in someones hands in the moment, but hey, fuck all that, just convict people already - they're obviously all racist anyway, all of them!

So Wayne Hennessy's, "I didn't know" is all good in your eyes?

[Coolie High]

Wembley.

Anyone calling it life or death are batshit bonkers,almost as bad as reporters who call him a trailblazer.

Harlesden, he could have easily been dead or in jail like many many of his childhood friends and school classmates.

[CraigDS]

Harlesden, he could have easily been dead or in jail like many many of his childhood friends and school classmates.

How many are dead and how many are in jail?

[ScottScott]

Harlesden, he could have easily been dead or in jail like many many of his childhood friends and school classmates.

I have family from Wembley, I've spent the last 10 years down around that area including Harlseden and Wilseden. It's not great but it's not this fucking ghetto like people seem to think it is and there are loads of worse places around London and the UK

[Coolie High]

I have family from Wembley, I've spent the last 10 years down around that area including Harlseden and Wilseden. It's not great but it's not this fucking ghetto like people seem to think it is and there are loads of worse places around London and the UK

St Raphs  Stonebridge estates were two of the most notorious estates in London around the 90’s and early 00’s one of the reasons why they had to bring about  ‘trident’, definitely not many worst places in the UK. Everywhere is better now from the outside looking in, Brixton Peckham all places you can say the same about recently, but it wasn’t the same 15 years ago.

[Coolie High]

How many are dead and how many are in jail?

I don’t get what you’re even implying?

[Johns_Barn]

You really don't understand Sterling's take on this or is all this rhetorical? With all due respect, if you really don't you must be someone who's had a relatively comfortable life, doesn't have to be rich but perhaps not quite exposed to the harshest extremes of it.

Sterling was a poor kid whose mom washed toilets. It's not Gandhi lite 'turning the other cheek', it's succeed or die. The same attitude he showed in getting his move to City for more trophies and better pay. This is what I want, fuck everything else.

That post is a lot of whining about him without understanding the mentality needed to exist, much less succeed against such odds.

In terms of finding better solutions, by all means target the money flow but it's important to remember for every single one of these guys it's a path to a life first and foremost, everything else comes after.

Edit: for most of them anyway, the likes of Barnes and a few others may have had / may have more options in life and thus more flexibility.

If you'd read my post a little closer, I actually questioned his stance and the people in his ear. Right now non of us know his/their intentions. What has come from his camp so far boils down to, more of the same. That is not a solution. The cynic in me thinks (in the worse case scenario) that RS will be put on a pedal stool and given accolades to keep him sweet while nothing changes. This is the source of my concerns. Remember Naom Chomsky's words (I'm paraphrasing but) the most dangerous and powerful form of propaganda is that which poses help but in reality is opposition.

I've grown up in the shadows of MILLWALL in Bermondsey to hard working immigrant parents (who themselves have been subject to bleak stuff). When the coaches gave us tickets in my primary school to watch games at the Den, NF leaflets were being passed around pre/post games. I've been jumped by a gang of white working class lads who were sporting the Reebok classics and stone wash denim BITD. I walked past the Bonamy estate daubed with all kinds of vile messages to and from school. So if you wanna talk about the huge silver spoon comfort I experienced, please do ask away...

It doesn't matter if I had a little more or less comfort because under the mindset in discussion it is completely irrelevant. You're talking about nothing more than trinkets. This is about survival tactics. When that racist arson attack took place at the kids party in New Cross, the flames didn't means test the black children that perished in its wake. The police that failed to investigate also didn't means test the bereaved families. To this day the degenerate got away with it with the help of London Met's finest. The families peacefully marched to Downing Street to hand in a petition and along the route they passed the old Fleet Street offices back when most of the UK media were based there. Do you know staff from the Sun et al opened the windows and made monkey chants and threw stuff down at them. You can be pretty sure that there mothers present that were toilet cleaners. Some would have been a little higher in society. Please tell us how any of that social stratification would have been relevant to any of those involved?

It seems you're saying that to make it, one has to throw the best interests of their own group under the bus. When in reality no individual can ascend higher than their own groups standing in society. Otherwise one find themselves on that, I'm not black, I'm OJ.....Okaaaaay:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM7lw0Ovzq0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM7lw0Ovzq0</a>

That isolationist stance didn't work too well Sunny Liston. It was thanks to the Nation of Islam, Ali was kept out of the hands of the mafia. Just look at how Frank Bruno was treated once his purpose was served. The same rats at the S*n that were fast to stick the union jack on him when it suited calling his mental illness BONKERS.  When you're that far gone, who are you going turn to? There is a litany of people I can reel off [sherif David Clark] who have tried to find their safe place under white supremacy that were still dumped by the way side. TL;DR Nobody including Raheem Stirling has to sell out. Playing the Sambo doesn't come with a retirement plan.

[Johns_Barn]

I have family from Wembley, I've spent the last 10 years down around that area including Harlseden and Wilseden. It's not great but it's not this fucking ghetto like people seem to think it is and there are loads of worse places around London and the UK

Norris Green is worse IMO.

[CraigDS]

I don’t get what you’re even implying?

Just that you seemed fairly sure that “many many” of his friends and classmates were dead or in jail, so I assumed you’d read something specific.

[Johns_Barn]

How many are dead and how many are in jail?

A big indicator would be how many were kicked out of school. Essentially if you end up in a PRU (pupil referral unit) at secondary age, then your mortality rates are beyond shocking (esp for the 5/6th richest country on the planet). Again we know certain groups are far more likely suspended and expelled for the same infraction as their white peers.
PRUs essential act as a schools to prison pipe line in most cases- though I know many hard working people in these places trying their hardest under extreme pressures [thank you austerity] and some pupils that have been steered into a better direction by them. When we start digging into how many of our representatives in West Minster have bought shares in the private prison system we see thing patterns emerging.

[CraigDS]

I see the Italian FA did their normal turning the other way and didn't hand out any punishment to Cagliari for their obvious racist chanting last month.

[RAWK Meltdown #1]

Kick It Out have issued an apologetic statement to Brighton's executive over the sacking of Chris Hughton. Apparently an article in the Telegraph bemoaned their decision in light of it's unhelpfulness towards the cause of having BAME in managerial positions...or something to that effect. It would appear that Brighton did not like the insinuations which ensued, or else somebody's 'had a word' with somebody else it seems.

You see, this is where things become muddy. Even in the crazy world of football management which seems to have its own set of rules.  Brighton sacking Hughton is based on their ambition offset against his recent performances. However, Hughton was still technically 'viable' to retain his job given his overall contribution to their cause if a broader performance sample was employed. But football's not like 'industry' in so many respects as we all know. You're only as good as your last results and there are plenty of clubs with itchy trigger fingers when it comes to management, and therefore lots of precedents that what Hughton experienced is not at all 'uncommon' within the role, regardless of skin colour.

So what do Brighton do? Do they go with their performance assessment, and use that as their metric to re-appoint for the role, or do they stay their hand...because it's far more important not to weaken BAME representation in the premier league, regardless of the club's ambition?

It appears that the Telegraph article claiming that his sacking was 'unhelpful' was in fact, even more  'unhelpful' than the sacking, and is why Kick It Out published an apology. I totally understand why these issues will appear on the 'radar' of any organisation whose duty is to monitor fair and equitable treatment of BAME personnel within the sport, but the quest for equitable representation as a target or 'percentage'..... is still a rather rocky furrow to plow at present it would seem.

LINKS:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48286337

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/05/13/troy-townsend-attacks-brighton-chris-hughton-sacking-now-worse/

https://www.kickitout.org/news/kick-it-out-statement-on-chris-hughton-and-brighton-and-hove-albion



 

[CraigDS]

Kick It Out have become a bit of a joke. Seem to constantly insert their foot into their own mouths.

[redgriffin73]

Man from Huddersfield banned after racially abusing one of our players at the Huddersfield game at Anfield.

https://www.clickliverpool.com/news/33151-man-banned-after-racially-abusing-liverpool-player/?fbclid=IwAR3YueNvnj2Ff6NFTfndYXv0K7Gc6c18tKDK1w5XUpjPVmOpW8DiOLBT95k

[Clint Eastwood]

Probably due a bump after last night, and with the new measures being put in which I'm unsure will actually do much to combat racism in football.

It's time for strong punishments for such racism. Clubs/National Teams with large groups of racist fans should be punished in a way that will affect their teams performances/place in a tournament. If a club receives a £100,000 fine because of racist chanting, do you think the perpetrators are going to give a shit? It's not their money. Furthermore, such fines are rather insignificant for big clubs. Expulsion from a tournament or a points deduction would have a far greater impact. Make the actions of these morons have consequences that actually impact them.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Yeah I'm no fan of England (or lots of their players, especially Sterling) but that was reprehensible last night, it just seems so nonchalantly done in those countries, no real concept of how damaging it is to hurl abuee at those players, under all of the money and fame etc they're still only people, I've gotten some anti-Irish abuse, usually in the south of England, and while it's nowhere near as bad as the racist abuse ethnic minorities get, it's still got the capacity to hurt you.

[vagabond]

Probably due a bump after last night, and with the new measures being put in which I'm unsure will actually do much to combat racism in football.

It's time for strong punishments for such racism. Clubs/National Teams with large groups of racist fans should be punished in a way that will affect their teams performances/place in a tournament. If a club receives a £100,000 fine because of racist chanting, do you think the perpetrators are going to give a shit? It's not their money. Furthermore, such fines are rather insignificant for big clubs. Expulsion from a tournament or a points deduction would have a far greater impact. Make the actions of these morons have consequences that actually impact them.

Yeah, we'll see how long the problem lasts if a team immediately forfeits a game if a racist chant is heard from their end.

[Statto Red]

It's ridiculous Nicklas Bendtner was fined €100,000 and given a one match ban for showing sponsors on his underpants in a match in Euro 2012, Red Star & think Slavia were each given €50,000 fine this year for racist behaviour from their fans

[Broad Spectrum]

Bulgaria keeper has come out and said the fans behaved well. Think we're all overreacting a bit here...

[Clayton Bigsby]

We will never know but I do wonder if the constant pre-game talk of action in case of racism stoked the fires. At some points it felt a bit cartoonish, almost like the fans were 'daring' England to do something about it.

[RainbowFlick]

Bulgaria should get a lengthy stadium ban and a warning to cease otherwise they will be dropped from Euro qualifiers.

I've been raging ever since last night at how smug those pricks looked.

Need UEFA, FA and others to stop pussying out of fighting racism.

[Statto Red]

Other countries do what the UK does & actually ban the idiots causing the problems from the stadiums, & enforce it through the courts.

[I've been a good boy]

Bulgaria keeper has come out and said the fans behaved well. Think we're all overreacting a bit here...

Him and the Bulgaria coach are both shithouses.

[beardsleyismessimk1]

Still no real Indian players in the premier league.  This war of white against black is so dark bleak and tiresome. Imagine if we let Indians play. How would the racism in this country be then?
Biggest minority in the country for over 50 years. Yet the polish have only been here a decade and already their kids have a pathway in to the football league's and habing one good polish player in the intire history should make anyone realise they're no good. But they do look the same though so are likely to fit in.
Where as the Indian doctors politians surgeons accountants lawyers barristers entrepreneurs still can't kick a ball around. Or is that just institutional racism? Pots kettles and all that.

[vagabond]

Still no real Indian players in the premier league.  This war of white against black is so dark bleak and tiresome. Imagine if we let Indians play. How would the racism in this country be then?
Biggest minority in the country for over 50 years. Yet the polish have only been here a decade and already their kids have a pathway in to the football league's and habing one good polish player in the intire history should make anyone realise they're no good. But they do look the same though so are likely to fit in.
Where as the Indian doctors politians surgeons accountants lawyers barristers entrepreneurs still can't kick a ball around. Or is that just institutional racism? Pots kettles and all that.

Hamza Chaudhary is of a Bangladeshi background. But that's about all I can think of in terms of the subcontinental populations in the UK.

[Crosby Nick]

Hamza Chaudhary is of a Bangladeshi background. But that's about all I can think of in terms of the subcontinental populations in the UK.

How’s Yan Dhanda doing at Swansea?

Clearly under represented but are there really loads more Poles in the system? I know at a young age there is plenty, the team my son plays for is probably about 80% Asian. Granted they’re not knocking on professional doors just yet but hopefully they will soon.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Still no real Indian players in the premier league.  This war of white against black is so dark bleak and tiresome. Imagine if we let Indians play. How would the racism in this country be then?
Biggest minority in the country for over 50 years. Yet the polish have only been here a decade and already their kids have a pathway in to the football league's and habing one good polish player in the intire history should make anyone realise they're no good. But they do look the same though so are likely to fit in.
Where as the Indian doctors politians surgeons accountants lawyers barristers entrepreneurs still can't kick a ball around. Or is that just institutional racism? Pots kettles and all that.

in a lot of cases, especially when I was growing up a lot of Asian parents pushed the kids down the education route as opposed to trying their luck in sport

[beardsleyismessimk1]

in a lot of cases, especially when I was growing up a lot of Asian parents pushed the kids down the education route as opposed to trying their luck in sport

Yeah they knew better due to the abhorrent racism they had to deal with. Nothing's really changed in this country. That's old stories. Most Asians are now filthy rich after being here 50 years  +

[killer-heels]

Yeah they knew better due to the abhorrent racism they had to deal with. Nothing's really changed in this country. That's old stories. Most Asians are now filthy rich after being here 50 years  +

Most of the asian population are not filthy rich

[Son of Spion]

Most of the asian population are not filthy rich

I've no idea of any figures on this, but I'd tend to agree with you.

I know there is something of a racial stereotype in the UK that Asians all seem to own either a corner shop or a market stall, but my own general observations of Asian communities here are that they tend to be centred in rather poor areas of cities and towns. I know from experience that many Asian people here are incredibly hard working, but I don't see a disproportionate amount of wealth in the UK Asian community in general.

Regarding racism in football. I've not read the whole thread and have only read about what happened at the England game as I don't watch them. Anyway, I think there is only so much football itself can do. Banning any convicted offenders for life would be a good start though. The thing is, football is fighting against the tide currently. There has been a lot of outrage from the English press this week, but I find that rather ironic. Our country is currently awash with overt racism that has been stirred up by mainstream politicians and the media here. Hate crime has gone through the roof. Nationalism, right-wing extremism, bigotry etc have all risen rapidly, just as they have in Europe and the USA.

The most powerful man in the world currently is a fascist madman and an overt racist who wanted to shoot Mexicans trying to cross the border until his staff pointed out it was illegal to do so. In the UK we have a fascist-lite Tory government which practices social Darwinism on the sick, disabled, homeless and the poor. We have xenophobes like Frottage spewing out his poison and far-right morons like Yaxley-Lennon rallying brainless boneheads across the country. Only a few short years ago, fascist scum had to keep their heads down, yet the Brexit result, the likes of the Tories, Trump and Frottage have given them the green light to openly spew their vile, once latent, hatreds and prejudices. We now have Brextremists threatening the lives of those who oppose them.

It is virtually impossible to tackle racism in football effectively if it is being given the green light everywhere else in society. The people who find themselves sat in stands at games are part of wider society, and if wider society is riddled with sickness then, so too, will be a proportion of any gathering of people, be it at football or elsewhere. The facts are, the human race is pretty much at war with itself. Difference is scorned and hatred is everywhere, be it in relation to colour, sexuality, religion, town/city/country you come from, social class, economic status etc... We live in a time where the politics of division are rampant and actually lapped up and embraced by massive sections of society, so it's no wonder this is reflected in football just as it seems to be pretty much everywhere else. Of course, football needs to do all it can to eradicate hate from stadiums, but on its own this is a bit like trying to plug a waterfall with a cork.