Topic: Russia launches invasion of Ukraine (*) & use spoiler tags for anything graphic!

[west_london_red]

If the last 14 years is anything to go by we’ll end up with a great tank, one of the very best but have about 8 of them, then lose a couple in testing and keep one aside for photo-ops for wannabe Tory leaders leaving us with about 5.

[Red Beret]

If the last 14 years is anything to go by we’ll end up with a great tank, one of the very best but have about 8 of them, then lose a couple in testing and keep one aside for photo-ops for wannabe Tory leaders leaving us with about 5.

You're not far off the truth, if that LazerPig is anything to go by (and he really seems to know his stuff and diligently researches everything).

The UK sent Ukraine 14 Challenge 2s, and they're down to 7. One was destroyed, but six others are currently inoperable, and Ukraine has no clue when the UK will be able to send - manufacture - what's needed to get those tanks up and running again.

Welcome to 21st century Tory Britain. The country that can't maintain a fleet of 14 tanks; never mind the 200 supposedly operable ones we're supposed to have, or the thousand strong fleet we clearly now need.

[rhysd]

You're not far off the truth, if that LazerPig is anything to go by (and he really seems to know his stuff and diligently researches everything).

The UK sent Ukraine 14 Challenge 2s, and they're down to 7. One was destroyed, but six others are currently inoperable, and Ukraine has no clue when the UK will be able to send - manufacture - what's needed to get those tanks up and running again.

Welcome to 21st century Tory Britain. The country that can't maintain a fleet of 14 tanks; never mind the 200 supposedly operable ones we're supposed to have, or the thousand strong fleet we clearly now need.

Similar reports with other Western equipment too.

The Pzh2000, German artillery. Ukrainian troops saying it's fantastic, when it works... but they spend most of the time in the repair shop and there simply aren't enough spare parts available. I think they are hardly used now.

And the M109 US artillery. Really durable weapon, but they haven't got any spare barrels to send Ukraine.so when the barrel wears, the accuracy goes to shit.

It's shown how woefully unprepared the West was for war. Especially for a grinding war like this.

[So… Howard Philips]

You're not far off the truth, if that LazerPig is anything to go by (and he really seems to know his stuff and diligently researches everything).

The UK sent Ukraine 14 Challenge 2s, and they're down to 7. One was destroyed, but six others are currently inoperable, and Ukraine has no clue when the UK will be able to send - manufacture - what's needed to get those tanks up and running again.

Welcome to 21st century Tory Britain. The country that can't maintain a fleet of 14 tanks; never mind the 200 supposedly operable ones we're supposed to have, or the thousand strong fleet we clearly now need.

Never mind 21st Century Tory Britain 200 years ago Nelson came out with this lament about lack of resources;

“Was I to die this moment, ‘Want of Frigates’ would be found stamped on my heart.”

[west_london_red]

You're not far off the truth, if that LazerPig is anything to go by (and he really seems to know his stuff and diligently researches everything).

The UK sent Ukraine 14 Challenge 2s, and they're down to 7. One was destroyed, but six others are currently inoperable, and Ukraine has no clue when the UK will be able to send - manufacture - what's needed to get those tanks up and running again.

Welcome to 21st century Tory Britain. The country that can't maintain a fleet of 14 tanks; never mind the 200 supposedly operable ones we're supposed to have, or the thousand strong fleet we clearly now need.

I warned about this some time ago when it was fashionable to take the piss out of how shit Russian equipment was that we shouldn’t assume ours is much better, dropping bombs from the relative safety of 30,000 ft and shooting at guys in turbans on the back of pick up trucks as we’ve been doing for the last 15 odd years is very different to what’s happening in Ukraine.

[Red Beret]

I warned about this some time ago when it was fashionable to take the piss out of how shit Russian equipment was that we shouldn’t assume ours is much better, dropping bombs from the relative safety of 30,000 ft and shooting at guys in turbans on the back of pick up trucks as we’ve been doing for the last 15 odd years is very different to what’s happening in Ukraine.

This is, unfortunately, the issue. European stratagem has been built on supporting a US vanguard. That has not materialised, so Europe is having to go it alone. The UK is just the most obvious sign of how fucked up this situation is.

Western military hardware is superior, but that's of no use when it is so hard to fix when it breaks. The only saving grace is that Russia isn't doing much better and the war has chewed up some of their best equipment. At least the West can crank production up. Russia are going to struggle, which is why they're throwing everything they have at Ukraine when they're at their perceived weakest.

[PaulF]

Is it, possibly, the case that the stuff we've given them is obsolete/surplus. So we don't have spares?
Or is it just a shitshow?

[Red Beret]

Is it, possibly, the case that the stuff we've given them is obsolete/surplus. So we don't have spares?
Or is it just a shitshow?

Not with the Challengers. The reality is it's just exposed the ineptitude of the government when it comes to maintaining military hardware. We had something like 350 Challenger 2s, about which half are supposedly being upgraded to Challenger 3s - which is the technological limit for this particular tank hull.

I don't claim to be an expert, but there's no ability to produce more hulls, so it seems to be more of a case of cannibalising parts from some tanks to keep the others going. That might work when you're part of a bigger force, but when you're expecting to go in head first and take the brunt? Nowhere near enough.

The dumbest thing is there is more than enough tech and know-how to get by these issues. It's just that the Tories squandered that ability by cutting costs in the name of austerity.

[Red Beret]

Russian losses as of yesterday. Approaching half a million personnel, almost 13,000 artillery pieces and over 7,500 tanks.



Looks like another two ships were taken out as well.

In addition to the Kovrovets minesweeper, which was reportedly destroyed yesterday, the destruction of another ship, the Project 22800 Karakurt Class 'Tsiklon', is likely, Navy spokesman Dmytro Pletenchuk said.

"Actually, this information is still being verified. Because in order to be 100 percent sure, it is still necessary to obtain the appropriate results of objective control," he added.