Author Topic: The Anfield Wrap  (Read 3308005 times)

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11160 on: July 26, 2015, 08:50:04 pm »
The rest of them might not be for you...

 :)
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Offline thekitkatshuffler

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11161 on: July 26, 2015, 08:50:15 pm »
It's great to have all this content, but you're going to start running out of players and seasons soon!   ???
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Offline Stussy

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11162 on: July 26, 2015, 11:48:33 pm »
latest What We Call History is great lads

Perfect Sunday night listening

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Offline justsean

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11163 on: July 26, 2015, 11:51:13 pm »
The rest of them might not be for you...

Ha! That's fair enough. Thanks for the heads up Neil. 

For the record, I don't think the Gareth Barry up your arse chant was a dig at Benitez. More showing appreciation for Xabi. Likewise for a number of the other references re Rafa.

Didn't feel like it was the majority of the fans against him either - although I'd agree that his efforts to fight for the club weren't appreciated by the majority until long after he had left us. Which is heart breaking really.


Offline Hij

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11164 on: July 27, 2015, 12:29:13 am »

Didn't feel like it was the majority of the fans against him either - although I'd agree that his efforts to fight for the club weren't appreciated by the majority until long after he had left us. Which is heart breaking really.



I've never felt as bummed and down in the dumps about football than on the day he was sacked. And that's before I could even have imagined what was coming next in regards Roy Hodgson.

In someways that's why I'm actually quite glad Rodgers has been given another season, we've been bouncing around from manager to manager recently and it's nice to see someone given a second chance for once.
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Offline Bastion Of Invincibility

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11165 on: July 27, 2015, 01:06:12 am »
Enjoyed WWCH 08/09 Pt 1. As always, Mike Nevin speaking up for Rafa is inspirational and memorable listening.

Offline Semaphore

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11166 on: July 27, 2015, 02:13:47 am »
That Joe Connolly on AFQ Thursdays is a such funny guy.
He's had me in stitches whenever I've heard him. He's brilliant

Offline Fitzy.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11167 on: July 27, 2015, 09:48:00 am »
08/09 was such a good team. Nothing like the ravaging wonderful mental beast of 13/14; it was more balanced, reasoned and controlled. Talent all over the shop and spearheaded with a deadly double act.

Rick Parry mentioned on his recent interview how incredible it was that such a good side emerged despite the horror show at boardroom level.  For Rafa to put together that team was incredible.

As for the anti-Rafa agenda, RAWK was absolutely rife with it. And, as was mentioned in the podcast, it often seemed to emanate from the more casual fan who wasn't fully immersed in all things Liverpool or certainly didn't understand what was happening. They'd hear a brief 'analysis' about Rafa and form a drawn out, inaccurate, conclusion. Added to that the orchestrated media obsession with painting the man as a footballing idiot he was onto a loser whatever happened.

I used to think that Gerrard's brilliance was used against him, as if Rafa was getting away with his appalling management because Gerrard was carrying the club and covering up the cracks. Added to that was the notion that Rafa deliberately clipped Gerrard's wings by playing him out of position - a particular favourite of Andy Gray who appeared to regard Rafa as the football equivalent of a paedophile.

Offline dobbouk

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11168 on: July 27, 2015, 10:46:23 am »
From what I remember 08/09, there was a large disparity between the opinions on Rafa between people who went the game and didn't. I can't remember a lot of Benitez negativity in the ground.

Offline ahfolk79

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11169 on: July 27, 2015, 11:00:28 am »
08/09 was such a good team. Nothing like the ravaging wonderful mental beast of 13/14; it was more balanced, reasoned and controlled. Talent all over the shop and spearheaded with a deadly double act.

Rick Parry mentioned on his recent interview how incredible it was that such a good side emerged despite the horror show at boardroom level.  For Rafa to put together that team was incredible.

As for the anti-Rafa agenda, RAWK was absolutely rife with it. And, as was mentioned in the podcast, it often seemed to emanate from the more casual fan who wasn't fully immersed in all things Liverpool or certainly didn't understand what was happening. They'd hear a brief 'analysis' about Rafa and form a drawn out, inaccurate, conclusion. Added to that the orchestrated media obsession with painting the man as a footballing idiot he was onto a loser whatever happened.

I used to think that Gerrard's brilliance was used against him, as if Rafa was getting away with his appalling management because Gerrard was carrying the club and covering up the cracks. Added to that was the notion that Rafa deliberately clipped Gerrard's wings by playing him out of position - a particular favourite of Andy Gray who appeared to regard Rafa as the football equivalent of a paedophile.

Did Rafa and Parry get on? I seem to remember Rafa complaining to the press about how long it took for RP to sort out transfers/the club moving too slowly. There was no love for Parry on RAWK at the time either although, on balance, he was probably slightly more popular than Ian Ayre is now.
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Offline justsean

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11170 on: July 27, 2015, 06:11:38 pm »
I've never felt as bummed and down in the dumps about football than on the day he was sacked. And that's before I could even have imagined what was coming next in regards Roy Hodgson.

In someways that's why I'm actually quite glad Rodgers has been given another season, we've been bouncing around from manager to manager recently and it's nice to see someone given a second chance for once.

Yeah, couldn't really have put it better myself Hij.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11171 on: July 27, 2015, 06:29:40 pm »
Now you bring it up I remember arguing with some clueless 'fans' in my office back then and a decent Gooner agreeing with me. Reminding them how a few seasons before arsenal were going unbeaten and finishing way ahead of us and by this point we were certainly equal to and pretty likely better than them. We were unfortunate to be one of the top four sides in Europe back then but two of the others were also in our league.

Some great memories from that season, obviously a little frustration about what might have been and the narrative in some quarters that we threw it away. United won it with that run of about 12 games without conceding. We played some great stuff and was a great season, just a shame that as ever it was a peak rather than something to build on.

Offline Learpholl

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11172 on: July 27, 2015, 07:14:37 pm »
Kieran Morris sounds like he's constantly shouting at the microphone. Tis odd.

Offline Bastion Of Invincibility

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11173 on: July 28, 2015, 03:22:16 am »
Jay Mckenna's come a long way since "that fucking dickhead Kolo Toure" moment. Now one of my favourite contributors.

Offline Hij

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11174 on: July 28, 2015, 04:18:28 am »
From what I remember 08/09, there was a large disparity between the opinions on Rafa between people who went the game and didn't. I can't remember a lot of Benitez negativity in the ground.
Seen a couple guys on Twitter speak wicked about the 08/09 season, I'm only presuming they hated Rafa but I was a massive Rafa fan myself.
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Offline DanA

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11175 on: July 28, 2015, 06:32:03 am »
On the Anfield wrap they talked about people worries about too many players are some sort of lack of ambition but they haven't even done the simplest of comparisons. We simply have more senior players than Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea. Significantly so, it's great to have options but there's a point where they don't get to be depth, they're simply left out.

We right now have seven more players than Chelsea. These aren't Rossiter types academy player either and I'm not including Balotelli, Borini, Lambert or Enrique. I'm talking Can, Markovic, Origi, Ibe, Ilori, Wisdom and Allen. These guys might not even be making the match day squad.


Quote from: hinesy
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11176 on: July 29, 2015, 07:58:10 pm »
About the expensive players, the one who said there was a massive difference in quality between the best and the rest in '09 was correct. We have many expensive players now, but the team doesn't pick itself. Our roles are vague. If we look around, think back at Man U, you can still name their best eleven from years ago. Last season's Barca? Chelsea? We can't even say what our best eleven is and it's a minus. We have expensive and good players, but not enough of the edge players, the players that make the difference. 

We might go for a new LB, but not a new striker. Then I think we're done with the arrivals. Could buy a youngster, but no more for the first team.

Agree it's a skill to get rid of players. We're poor at it. And we need to get players out. Plenty of them.

Our strength in depth is not a big advantage. It's good, but would you rather have Lallana, Lovren and Markovic, or Suarez? Balotelli, Lambert and Borini, or Benteke/Sturridge? Alberto and Allen, or Mascherano? Etc.

I don't believe in the two teams idea. Plenty of years, I've thought our squad has looked really good in comparison. It's when we have the strong core that we challenge. Our bench doesn't seem to matter, it's the core that determines our success.


        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Jay_Mc

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11177 on: July 29, 2015, 09:04:37 pm »
Jay Mckenna's come a long way since "that fucking dickhead Kolo Toure" moment. Now one of my favourite contributors.

Phew!

Nah, Thanks. I still stand by it by the way. I think it actually disproves the point one of the posters on here just made about TAW being very positive. They bring me on to balance it out! In all seriousness that Kolo pod was recorded straight after that game. And was/is probably how the Pink is intended. Immediate reaction, anger, joy, not filtered through re-watching but what was seen, heard and felt. Hence why Gerrard was slaughtered in the Pink after United at home.
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Offline kavah

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11178 on: July 30, 2015, 03:54:53 pm »
referencing The Grocer must be a first on a sports podcast

Offline conman

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11179 on: July 30, 2015, 04:03:41 pm »
The ticketing podcast was pretty good, listened to it this morning on the way into work.

I'm wondering if the season ticket problem could be resolved by offering 3/4 season tickets either as an opt in or by converting all season tickets to 3/4 season tickets. That way, there will be a constant roll over of seats being made available for more fans. Those same S/T's can go to the remaining 1/4 of the games, by purchasing the tickets a few weeks in advance, as per Glastonbury model, and those that do, would really want to go too.

Offline stevedo

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11180 on: July 30, 2015, 04:29:50 pm »
On the Anfield wrap they talked about people worries about too many players are some sort of lack of ambition but they haven't even done the simplest of comparisons. We simply have more senior players than Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea. Significantly so, it's great to have options but there's a point where they don't get to be depth, they're simply left out.

We right now have seven more players than Chelsea. These aren't Rossiter types academy player either and I'm not including Balotelli, Borini, Lambert or Enrique. I'm talking Can, Markovic, Origi, Ibe, Ilori, Wisdom and Allen. These guys might not even be making the match day squad.
Enjoyed the Unwrapped referencing this post. As for the what we call history, it's a bittersweet listen so far.

Offline DanA

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11181 on: July 30, 2015, 04:31:55 pm »
Enjoyed the Unwrapped referencing this post. As for the what we call history, it's a bittersweet listen so far.

What did they say?
Quote from: hinesy
He hadn't played as if he was on fire, more the slight breeze cutting across New Brighton on a summer's day than El Nino, the force of nature.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11182 on: July 30, 2015, 04:47:02 pm »
We right now have seven more players than Chelsea. These aren't Rossiter types academy player either and I'm not including Balotelli, Borini, Lambert or Enrique. I'm talking Can, Markovic, Origi, Ibe, Ilori, Wisdom and Allen. These guys might not even be making the match day squad.

Are you sure that's true?

Even including Rossiter and other youngsters we have a squad of 35 players currently, so that includes those we're likely to sell or loan this season. Minus the kids (not Gomez, Ilori or Origi) and those 4 we are likely to sell we have a squad of of approx 25, including current perma crocks Sturridge and Flannagan.

Chelsea have a squad of 31 currently. United have 34. Arsenal 30.

City are actually the odd ones out with a squad of 24.

Offline DanA

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11183 on: July 30, 2015, 05:18:54 pm »
31 for Chelsea? I''m missing something then:

Chelsea's current squad:
Asmir Begović, Thibaut Courtois, Jamal Blackman, Branislav Ivanović, Kurt Zouma, Nathan Aké, Gary Cahill, John Terry, César Azpilicueta, Cesc Fàbregas, Ramires, Oscar, Eden Hazard, Juan Cuadrado, John Obi Mikel, Nemanja Matc, Willian, Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Radamel Falcao, Loïc Rémy, Diego Costa

That's 21 names. How do you get 31? Admitedly I hadn't included Moses figuring he'd move but still that's not 31 SENIOR players. And I've been pretty liberal with senior including Loftus-Cheek, and Blackman while not including Ward, Rossiter and Ojo etc.

Liverpool's squad:
Simon Mignolet, Ádám Bogdán, Nathaniel Clyne, Kolo Touré, Dejan Lovren, Joe Gomez Mamadou Sakho, Alberto Moreno, Tiago Ilori, Martin Škrtel Jon Flanagan, James Milner, Philippe Coutinho, Roberto Firmino, Jordan Henderson, Adam Lallana, Lucas Leiva, Emre Can, Joe Allen, Jordon Ibe, Lazar Marković, João Carlos Teixeira, Daniel Sturridge, Divock Origi, Danny Ings, Christian Benteke

That's 27 but we also had Wisdom at the time I made this comment which makes the difference seven. I'd be interested to see how they came up with 31 because these aren't academy kids. This is our first team squad with Balotelli, Lambert, Borini, Enrique, Rossiter, Ojo, Maguire and the like taken out.
Quote from: hinesy
He hadn't played as if he was on fire, more the slight breeze cutting across New Brighton on a summer's day than El Nino, the force of nature.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11184 on: July 30, 2015, 05:34:08 pm »
snip

I went off Wiki mate...

Nathaniel Clyne
Kolo Touré
Dejan Lovren
James Milner
Philippe Coutinho
Roberto Firmino
Joe Gomez
Jordan Henderson (captain)
Mamadou Sakho
Alberto Moreno
Adam Lallana
Lucas Leiva
Simon Mignolet
Emre Can
Joe Allen
Tiago Ilori
Divock Origi
Danny Ings
Jordon Ibe
Ádám Bogdán
Martin Škrtel
Lazar Marković
Christian Benteke
Daniel Sturridge
Jon Flanagan

= 25 (23 + 2 long term injuries). This also includes Gomez, Ilori and Origi.

Mario Balotelli
José Enrique
Fabio Borini
Rickie Lambert

= 4 likely to be sold

Jordan Rossiter
Jerome Sinclair
Brad Smith
João Carlos Teixeira
Sheyi Ojo
Cameron Brannagan

= 6 kids

Offline CraigDS

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11185 on: July 30, 2015, 05:37:39 pm »
Chelsea...

Asmir Begović
Branislav Ivanović (vice-captain)
Cesc Fàbregas
Kurt Zouma
Nathan Aké
Ramires
Oscar
Radamel Falcao (on loan from Monaco)
Eden Hazard
Juan Cuadrado
John Obi Mikel
Thibaut Courtois
Bertrand Traoré
Mohamed Salah
Loïc Rémy
Diego Costa   
Victor Moses
Nemanja Matić
Willian
Gary Cahill
John Terry (captain)
Jamal Blackman
César Azpilicueta
Nathaniel Chalobah
Dominic Solanke
Ruben Loftus-Cheek
Matej Delač
Todd Kane
Marko Marin
Lucas Piazon
Oriol Romeu

= 31

Offline DanA

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11186 on: July 30, 2015, 05:40:14 pm »
I went off Wiki mate...

Nathaniel Clyne
Kolo Touré
Dejan Lovren
James Milner
Philippe Coutinho
Roberto Firmino
Joe Gomez
Jordan Henderson (captain)
Mamadou Sakho
Alberto Moreno
Adam Lallana
Lucas Leiva
Simon Mignolet
Emre Can
Joe Allen
Tiago Ilori
Divock Origi
Danny Ings
Jordon Ibe
Ádám Bogdán
Martin Škrtel
Lazar Marković
Christian Benteke
Daniel Sturridge
Jon Flanagan

= 25 (23 + 2 long term injuries). This also includes Gomez, Ilori and Origi.

Mario Balotelli
José Enrique
Fabio Borini
Rickie Lambert

= 4 likely to be sold

Jordan Rossiter
Jerome Sinclair
Brad Smith
João Carlos Teixeira
Sheyi Ojo
Cameron Brannagan

= 6 kids

I agree with the list although Teixiera is 22 years old so hardly a kid. That's the only difference.

Pointless counting kids. Some of them didn't even make the preseason tour!


And who are your 31 for Chelsea?
Quote from: hinesy
He hadn't played as if he was on fire, more the slight breeze cutting across New Brighton on a summer's day than El Nino, the force of nature.

Offline DanA

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11187 on: July 30, 2015, 05:52:06 pm »
Chelsea...

Asmir Begović
Branislav Ivanović (vice-captain)
Cesc Fàbregas
Kurt Zouma
Nathan Aké
Ramires
Oscar
Radamel Falcao (on loan from Monaco)
Eden Hazard
Juan Cuadrado
John Obi Mikel
Thibaut Courtois
Bertrand Traoré
Mohamed Salah
Loïc Rémy
Diego Costa   
Victor Moses
Nemanja Matić
Willian
Gary Cahill
John Terry (captain)
Jamal Blackman
César Azpilicueta
Nathaniel Chalobah
Dominic Solanke
Ruben Loftus-Cheek
Matej Delač
Todd Kane
Marko Marin
Lucas Piazon
Oriol Romeu

= 31


So Chelsea are going to have four keepers are they?
Marko Marin making a comeback at Chelsea?

Expected a bit more thought to be put into it than that
Quote from: hinesy
He hadn't played as if he was on fire, more the slight breeze cutting across New Brighton on a summer's day than El Nino, the force of nature.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11188 on: July 30, 2015, 05:59:43 pm »
So Chelsea are going to have four keepers are they?
Marko Marin making a comeback at Chelsea?

Expected a bit more thought to be put into it than that

Bit hostile there mate, was simply posting up the squad list as it is on Wiki, I didn't realise I/you were Mourinho and able to decide who would and wouldn't be in their squad next season.

They have, of course, got some kids (although they've plenty who are 21/22, so by your own reasoning about Teixeira they aren't kids), and they've some players they'd like to get rid of this window. They are also likely to add a player or two yet too.

The difference really isn't that great. I certainly don't think it will end up being 7 senior players great too (it's not now).

Offline thekitkatshuffler

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11189 on: July 30, 2015, 07:34:29 pm »
What did they say?

I was only half listening but I think Neil called you a wanker, mate.

;)

Your comment pretty much made up the basis of the podcast.  That is, is our squad too big and what can we do about it?
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Offline DanA

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11190 on: July 30, 2015, 11:00:02 pm »

Bit hostile there mate, was simply posting up the squad list as it is on Wiki, I didn't realise I/you were Mourinho and able to decide who would and wouldn't be in their squad next season.

They have, of course, got some kids (although they've plenty who are 21/22, so by your own reasoning about Teixeira they aren't kids), and they've some players they'd like to get rid of this window. They are also likely to add a player or two yet too.

The difference really isn't that great. I certainly don't think it will end up being 7 senior players great too (it's not now).

Apologise if it came off that way, that was not my intention to come off hostile. Love your show for what it's worth.

Granted I'm not Mourinho, but I'm not Brendan Rodgers either. Its pretty common knowledge though that Balotelli, Borini, Enrique and Lambert are unlikely to be part of the squad and we are try to shift them. The names I listed are the ones that we aren't trying shift. Marin, Salah, Romeo etc they fall into the category of Borini, Lambert or perhaps more accurately Alberto (pre-sale).
Quote from: hinesy
He hadn't played as if he was on fire, more the slight breeze cutting across New Brighton on a summer's day than El Nino, the force of nature.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11191 on: July 30, 2015, 11:16:49 pm »
I was only half listening but I think Neil called you a wanker, mate.

;)

Your comment pretty much made up the basis of the podcast.  That is, is our squad too big and what can we do about it?

What did they have to say?

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Roger Federer

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11192 on: July 31, 2015, 12:33:42 am »
Are you sure that's true?

Chelsea have a squad of 31 currently.
Chelsea list 21 first team players on their own website though, including 3 goalkeepers, and last season they used 25 across all competitions in total. Four of those have been sold/released (Cech, Luis, Drogba, and half way through the season, Schurrle) and all will probably be replaced by someone else, only Luis isn't yet (otherwise it's Begovic, Caudrado, and Falcao). One more is probably on his way out (Salah), the rest were kids with a few appearances and 5 starts between them. They show that with a bit of luck, and presumably good training and injury prevention, it's entirely possible to keep a small squad and be successful. They also have a very defined best eleven (you could easily pick out 8,9, perhaps even 10 players, who would start an important game if available).

I hope we can be in the same situation in a couple of seasons, have a really strong 18 man squad, and yet plenty of players that are so good you can't leave them out. The squad is still important, and if the drop off in quality is too great, you will suffer, but I doubt the impact of players 20-25 in the pecking order ever makes much difference to a team.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11193 on: July 31, 2015, 12:46:59 am »
Chelsea list 21 first team players on their own website though, including 3 goalkeepers, and last season they used 25 across all competitions in total. Four of those have been sold/released (Cech, Luis, Drogba, and half way through the season, Schurrle) and all will probably be replaced by someone else, only Luis isn't yet (otherwise it's Begovic, Caudrado, and Falcao). One more is probably on his way out (Salah), the rest were kids with a few appearances and 5 starts between them. They show that with a bit of luck, and presumably good training and injury prevention, it's entirely possible to keep a small squad and be successful. They also have a very defined best eleven (you could easily pick out 8,9, perhaps even 10 players, who would start an important game if available).

I hope we can be in the same situation in a couple of seasons, have a really strong 18 man squad, and yet plenty of players that are so good you can't leave them out. The squad is still important, and if the drop off in quality is too great, you will suffer, but I doubt the impact of players 20-25 in the pecking order ever makes much difference to a team.
Our best XI is pretty predictable too for the most part.

               Mignolet
 Clyne Skrtel Sakho Moreno
                ??
      Henderson Milner
Firmino             Coutinho
           Sturridge

Rodgers might have views on choices like Sakho or Lovren, Moreno or Gomez, Allen or Lucas or Can, and of course due to injuries Benteke or Sturridge. But its pretty predictable really, just like Chelsea's team. Or am I missing something here?


Offline Roger Federer

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11194 on: July 31, 2015, 01:14:35 am »
Our best XI is pretty predictable too for the most part.

               Mignolet
 Clyne Skrtel Sakho Moreno
                ??
      Henderson Milner
Firmino             Coutinho
           Sturridge

Rodgers might have views on choices like Sakho or Lovren, Moreno or Gomez, Allen or Lucas or Can, and of course due to injuries Benteke or Sturridge. But its pretty predictable really, just like Chelsea's team. Or am I missing something here?


It's not certain that Sakho starts, nor who partners Milner and Henderson (or Coutinho, if he's played in midfield), if both Benteke and Sturridge would start (and who will then drop to the bench), or what formation we'll play (diamond or 4-3-3 most likely I think). Also, it's not like Moreno, Skrtel, Mignolet play because they are so good, but rather that the options are quite poor. The only really top class players in my opinion are Coutinho and Sturridge, and maybe Henderson, and although I'm hopeful the likes of Clyne, Milner, Benteke and Firmino joins them, we don't know how they will perform for us yet.

With Chelsea, I'd say the only question mark is if Fabregas plays in attacking midfield instead of Oscar or Willian, and use Ramires/Mikel beside Matic. Courtois, Ivanovic, Cahill, Terry, Azpiliuceta, Matic, Fabregas, Hazard, and Costa started almost every game when fit. Despite having the likes of Willian, Oscar, Caudrado/Schurrle, Ramires, Remy, Zouma, Cech and Felipe Luis as competition.

I think there is a noticable differance between the sides in this regard. Which shouldn't come as a surprise, but I hope, as I said before, that we have added a few more top class players so that we get closer to them this season. If we have to sacrifice a few that are on the outside of our best 18 man squad when the season ends, I would do it to strenghten the best eleven further. Even if the cost is that the depth outside that matchday squad isn't as strong anymore.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 01:16:51 am by Roger Federer »

Offline DanA

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11195 on: July 31, 2015, 01:48:46 am »

Our best XI is pretty predictable too for the most part.

               Mignolet
 Clyne Skrtel Sakho Moreno
                ??
      Henderson Milner
Firmino             Coutinho
           Sturridge

Rodgers might have views on choices like Sakho or Lovren, Moreno or Gomez, Allen or Lucas or Can, and of course due to injuries Benteke or Sturridge. But its pretty predictable really, just like Chelsea's team. Or am I missing something here?

In some respects I agree it just feels unpredictable because the 11th player could be 1 of 10 or so players with massive ramifications in terms of shape. Arguments for Benteke, Ibe, Lallana, Lucas, Can or Allen can be made and I think there is contention over Sakho vs Lovren, Gomez vs Moreno which might go against common opinion on RAWK.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11196 on: July 31, 2015, 09:17:58 am »
Our best XI is pretty predictable too for the most part.

               Mignolet
 Clyne Skrtel Sakho Moreno
                ??
      Henderson Milner
Firmino             Coutinho
           Sturridge

Rodgers might have views on choices like Sakho or Lovren, Moreno or Gomez, Allen or Lucas or Can, and of course due to injuries Benteke or Sturridge. But its pretty predictable really, just like Chelsea's team. Or am I missing something here?



The real concern is probably more with the hierarchy in the group. Say that side you have up there is the one we play. Who is next in line? This is where Enrique, Flanagan, Lovren, Toure, Can, Lucas, Allen, Markovic, Lallana, Ibe, Ings, Origi and of course Benteke form a large group of options. You end up with either a first eleven that plays a lot and (most of) a second eleven that doesn't play, or you have a mix where many play something like every other game.
Generally, I think it's wiser to have one group that plays almost every game, one that plays the majority of the games and then you have the rest. When you have many players on the same level, you lose the hierarchy. We should think back at two good examples.

One when we had Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard and Lucas for CM. One where we had Suarez, Sturridge and Aspas for the striker role(s).

In the first one, Lucas was the clear backup. We could shift things around too. I think we could play Benayoun behind the striker, with Gerrard dropping deeper. So Lucas was backup, but we could alter things, we didn't have to play Lucas by default. So he had a vital role, but wasn't key to success.

In the second Aspas was the clear backup. We could also play only one of Suarez and Sturridge, so again Aspas was backup, but a rather low profile backup.

In both those cases, we relied heavily on our best picks. We played them a lot. It worked. Both because of the quality we had, but I believe the structure was sound too. Everyone knew Lucas/Aspas were not the ones to shoot us to glory. We knew their roles, that they were backups, to fill in for the best ones.

When we compare to last season up front, who was the man behind Sturridge? Borini, Balotelli or Lambert? Sterling? At CB? At wing-back? We didn't have that hierarchy. When you lose it in many places in the squad, it shows. Many options puts you in bigger danger that this will happen.

This is another reason why I believe it's important to have the likes of Ibe, Wisdom and Ilori in the squad, as active options. It helps clearify the roles and expectations for them and other players.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11197 on: July 31, 2015, 10:48:44 am »
The real concern is probably more with the hierarchy in the group. Say that side you have up there is the one we play. Who is next in line? This is where Enrique, Flanagan, Lovren, Toure, Can, Lucas, Allen, Markovic, Lallana, Ibe, Ings, Origi and of course Benteke form a large group of options. You end up with either a first eleven that plays a lot and (most of) a second eleven that doesn't play, or you have a mix where many play something like every other game.
Generally, I think it's wiser to have one group that plays almost every game, one that plays the majority of the games and then you have the rest. When you have many players on the same level, you lose the hierarchy. We should think back at two good examples.

One when we had Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard and Lucas for CM. One where we had Suarez, Sturridge and Aspas for the striker role(s).

In the first one, Lucas was the clear backup. We could shift things around too. I think we could play Benayoun behind the striker, with Gerrard dropping deeper. So Lucas was backup, but we could alter things, we didn't have to play Lucas by default. So he had a vital role, but wasn't key to success.

In the second Aspas was the clear backup. We could also play only one of Suarez and Sturridge, so again Aspas was backup, but a rather low profile backup.

In both those cases, we relied heavily on our best picks. We played them a lot. It worked. Both because of the quality we had, but I believe the structure was sound too. Everyone knew Lucas/Aspas were not the ones to shoot us to glory. We knew their roles, that they were backups, to fill in for the best ones.

When we compare to last season up front, who was the man behind Sturridge? Borini, Balotelli or Lambert? Sterling? At CB? At wing-back? We didn't have that hierarchy. When you lose it in many places in the squad, it shows. Many options puts you in bigger danger that this will happen.

This is another reason why I believe it's important to have the likes of Ibe, Wisdom and Ilori in the squad, as active options. It helps clearify the roles and expectations for them and other players.
Interesting view point, and I like the thinking of having clear first-choice selections.

However, one thing I'd like to point out is that the clear hierarchy only worked in 2013/14 because we had only the league to focus on, so any backups or fringe players outside the first 13-14 names hardly played, especially in the second half of the season.

Also, when you're in a position like ours where you want to build a strong squad but aren't capable of attracting the very top talent for whatever reasons (Costa, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez, etc) then you're going to end up buying the next best thing. As a result your first XI will naturally be closer in quality to the backups if you're looking to build a strong squad. I don't think its worth sticking to the "hierarchy" at all costs if we could have stronger backups that are close to the quality of the first XI.

I do like the balance we have in the squad at the moment though to be honest. In contrast to last season I think roles for each player seem to be more defined, at least on paper, this season. You can clearly see who is competing directly with who for a spot in the first team, for example:

Sturridge vs Benteke
Firmino vs Lallana
Can vs Milner
Allen vs Lucas
Lovren vs Sakho
Gomez vs Moreno

In each respective position there is a clear first choice and a clear second choice, even though the difference in quality isn't necessarily massive.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 10:54:34 am by rickardinho1 »

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11198 on: July 31, 2015, 12:54:20 pm »
Interesting view point, and I like the thinking of having clear first-choice selections.

However, one thing I'd like to point out is that the clear hierarchy only worked in 2013/14 because we had only the league to focus on, so any backups or fringe players outside the first 13-14 names hardly played, especially in the second half of the season.

Also, when you're in a position like ours where you want to build a strong squad but aren't capable of attracting the very top talent for whatever reasons (Costa, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez, etc) then you're going to end up buying the next best thing. As a result your first XI will naturally be closer in quality to the backups if you're looking to build a strong squad. I don't think its worth sticking to the "hierarchy" at all costs if we could have stronger backups that are close to the quality of the first XI.

I do like the balance we have in the squad at the moment though to be honest. In contrast to last season I think roles for each player seem to be more defined, at least on paper, this season. You can clearly see who is competing directly with who for a spot in the first team, for example:

Sturridge vs Benteke
Firmino vs Lallana
Can vs Milner
Allen vs Lucas
Lovren vs Sakho
Gomez vs Moreno

In each respective position there is a clear first choice and a clear second choice, even though the difference in quality isn't necessarily massive.



The way I see 13/14, it's more of a reference how to do it. We had it right and a slight tweak was the way forward. You add a few European games, so add a few more squad players. Say a defender, a midfielder and an attacker. That's it.

Agree that when we miss out on the top targets, we'll end up with players of similar quality. That's natural, but I reckon we take it too far.

This may seem extreme, but there's a point to it. We have seen Suarez and Sterling leave. These are their replacements: Benteke, Lallana, Markovic, Balotelli, Lambert, Firmino. We tend to see this as an improvement to the squad, because we get more options. Thus we can handle more games. But in a team that worked, if you lose two players, you can't exchange them with six. You can only play two. Buy six and the effect is most of the money spent will be on the bench.

I have a slightly different take on the 1st/2nd pick for each position. The way I view our new arrivals this season, is that they're primarily first picks (Clyne, Milner, Firmino, Benteke). They're in the match day squad and most likely in the starting eleven. Which is good. So for me, I'd rather say it's (Benteke and Sturridge) vs (Ings, Origi & Co). Benteke and Sturridge are 1st picks and higher in the hierarchy, the others are 2nd picks.
Likewise, I see Firmino, Coutinho and Lallana as higher up than Markovic and Ibe.

The effect of this, is I believe we'll want to play three of (Benteke, Sturridge, Firmino, Coutinho, Lallana) in every game. The other two will be on the bench, also every game. Then there's perhaps one open spot for the rest. That's the hierarchy now for the front three.
The other side of this, is Ings, Origi, Markovic, Ibe (and Balotelli, Lambert and Borini) become more of a 2nd tier. They are what I call player 19-... in the squad and therefore, to be frank, they are not that important for our success. Those players there, we've spent >60M on them and we tend to think this will give us the edge.

But when you get all of Ings, Origi, Markovic, Ibe (and Balotelli, Borini, Lambert) fighting for one spot, we're not helping. You have a bit of everything, international players, an Academy player and none is really gonna get a lot of game time. They're all put on hold. If we then fall for the temptation and say these are all good enough to be in the match day squad, we shrink the responsibilities of those five (Benteke & Co) and we lose the hierarchy. Because those five get less games and others get more. The way I see it, we only need two of the seven in that 2nd tier and it should be Ibe because he's our own, plus one more.

If we go back to 13/14, it was the extensive use of a smaller group of players that got us to the title challenge. We should strive more in that direction, because it helps guide us in so many ways. Squad size, use of Academy, player roles, use of financial resources, speed of change,...

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Redman0151

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #11199 on: July 31, 2015, 03:12:12 pm »
Heaton in the hole was very good, always happy to see more Heaton on TAW
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