Topic: Sherlock - Series 4 starts 1/1/17

[Barefoot Doctor]

My theory:

At the beginning of the episode, we see a mannequin hanging from a room in 221B Baker Street with a noose round its neck. Bit strange to put in, unless it's relevant later.

And in episode two, we were introduced to a drug that caused extreme fear and paranoia, making Watson believe he saw the Hound when it wasn't really there. Watson saw what he expected to see.

Holmes realises Moriarty's plan is for Sherlock to kill himself. So he sets up the perfect spot, the roof of St Barts. He needs Molly's help - maybe she goes to Mycroft, whose far-reaching powers will also prove helpful. He then gives Watson the drug from the Baskervilles episode. Notice that Watson is sleeping before getting the fake phone call about Mrs Hudson, maybe suggesting that Holmes put him under in some way.

Sherlock then heads to the roof to take on Moriarty. He is resigned to his 'fate', but thinks he spots a way to beat Moriarty. That is blown out the water when Moriarty tops himself. So he goes back to the original plan. Using Mycroft's resources, he leaps from the building to safety - landing on the rubbish truck. It drives away with Sherlock. The mannequin is placed on the ground with some fake blood. A cyclist - maybe part of the homeless network - clips Watson to further disorient him.

With the drugs in his system, he sees the mannequin as Holmes himself. The other people on the street are there on Mycroft's command, and play along, making sure the paramedics (also working with Mycroft) take the 'body' away before Watson realises the truth.

[scoresagain]

I would say that the use of the HOUND drug to confuse Watson would be too easy a way out, but given Moffat's ending to the last series of Doctor Who, its completely plausible.

[Brian Blessed]

Have you taken some of the hallucinogen yourself, BD?

[Barefoot Doctor]

Have you taken some of the hallucinogen yourself, BD?

Haha, I don't think for a second I'm right. But I do expect something convoluted from Moffat.

[CHOPPER]

http://www.rockettstgeorge.co.uk/ali-miller-united-kingdom-teacup-and-saucer---exclusive-to-rockett-st-george-5872-p.asp


http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2012/jan/17/sherlock-teapot-sales-ali-miller

Cheers mate, really appreciate that.

£45 for the pot and £50 for two cups and saucers? On the steep side but I am sorely tempted.

[planet-terror]

for a Sherlock fix men and movies showing the sign of four,,,,Ian Richardson,,,ORIGINAL BRITISH DRAMA it is not

[Mikeebee]

CBS is going to make it apparently.

I find it sad that they would have to remake it, it's so good as it is. Hopefully they don't butcher it, cbs has some of the better dramas IMO so there's that to be thankful for. Also glad it's not FOX, they would probably cancel it after 2 shows, not enough action too much thinking.

[Barefoot Doctor]

I find it sad that they would have to remake it, it's so good as it is. Hopefully they don't butcher it, cbs has some of the better dramas IMO so there's that to be thankful for. Also glad it's not FOX, they would probably cancel it after 2 shows, not enough action too much thinking.

Ach, I don't see an issue with it. It's not going to take away from the British version. Best case, it becomes a success and there's another great take on Sherlock to watch. Worst case, it fails and is forgotten within months.

[Slick_Beef]

Someone just pointed out to me, if you email the address on this business card (richard@r-brook.co.uk) you get an out of office reply telling you to contact Kitty Reilly... They really do think of everything

[reniformis]

CBS aren't remaking it with 'permission' from the BBC production. They are basically ripping it off. And it'll probably be as shit as the Life On Mars project was.

http://www.nme.com/filmandtv/news/sherlock-producer-says-us-remake-elementary-is/257960

My theory:

At the beginning of the episode, we see a mannequin hanging from a room in 221B Baker Street with a noose round its neck. Bit strange to put in, unless it's relevant later.

And in episode two, we were introduced to a drug that caused extreme fear and paranoia, making Watson believe he saw the Hound when it wasn't really there. Watson saw what he expected to see.

Holmes realises Moriarty's plan is for Sherlock to kill himself. So he sets up the perfect spot, the roof of St Barts. He needs Molly's help - maybe she goes to Mycroft, whose far-reaching powers will also prove helpful. He then gives Watson the drug from the Baskervilles episode. Notice that Watson is sleeping before getting the fake phone call about Mrs Hudson, maybe suggesting that Holmes put him under in some way.

Sherlock then heads to the roof to take on Moriarty. He is resigned to his 'fate', but thinks he spots a way to beat Moriarty. That is blown out the water when Moriarty tops himself. So he goes back to the original plan. Using Mycroft's resources, he leaps from the building to safety - landing on the rubbish truck. It drives away with Sherlock. The mannequin is placed on the ground with some fake blood. A cyclist - maybe part of the homeless network - clips Watson to further disorient him.

With the drugs in his system, he sees the mannequin as Holmes himself. The other people on the street are there on Mycroft's command, and play along, making sure the paramedics (also working with Mycroft) take the 'body' away before Watson realises the truth.

Unless Sherlock also gave the drugs to the hired goon in the opposite building who saw what Watson saw, then I'd say that's not likely.

[Brian Blessed]

Someone just pointed out to me, if you email the address on this business card (richard@r-brook.co.uk) you get an out of office reply telling you to contact Kitty Reilly... They really do think of everything

mailed the address lower down...


Edit: bah, returned as a no hit.

[Slick_Beef]

mailed the address lower down...


Edit: bah, returned as a no hit.

strange, i got:


Richard Brook richard@r-brook.co.uk
9:32 PM (17 minutes ago)

to me
Hullo there!

Thanks for getting in touch. Unfortunately, I will be out of town and
without access to email for an unknown period of time. For all urgent
requests, please contact journalist Kitty Reilly, and she will be able
to direct your message. Otherwise, please feel free to reply with more
details and I'll be sure to respond when I return!

Thanks from your favourite storyteller,


Richard Brook

[Barefoot Doctor]

CBS aren't remaking it with 'permission' from the BBC production. They are basically ripping it off. And it'll probably be as shit as the Life On Mars project was.

http://www.nme.com/filmandtv/news/sherlock-producer-says-us-remake-elementary-is/257960

Unless Sherlock also gave the drugs to the hired goon in the opposite building who saw what Watson saw, then I'd say that's not likely.

He would've seen Sherlock jump, that's all that matters.

Whatever happened, there had to be real risk in it for Sherlock. He had to believe he could die when he jumped, even if he had a plan up his sleeve. The drama is ruined if he knows for sure he's going to survive - it's much more poignant if he knows there's a strong chance it'll go horribly wrong - like missing the rubbish truck, for instance.

[Mouth]

My theory:

At the beginning of the episode, we see a mannequin hanging from a room in 221B Baker Street with a noose round its neck. Bit strange to put in, unless it's relevant later.

And in episode two, we were introduced to a drug that caused extreme fear and paranoia, making Watson believe he saw the Hound when it wasn't really there. Watson saw what he expected to see.

The mannequin might be relevant in some way, but I doubt it.

There is no way that the drug from the other episode was used, in terms of the established universe it causes psychotic episodes, not something Holmes is likely to give to Watson if he isnt going to be about to bring him down off it, plus with him not being about there is the danger that Watson would go on a violent murderous rampage, once again not something Holmes would want. Further more there is no way that Holmes could actually predict what kind of halucination Watson would have as a result. Plus, as you say it causes extreme fear and paranoia, dont see how either would make Watson see a mannequin as a dead Holmes. Then there is the problem of dosage, in the other episode Holmes puts it in Watsons drink, it takes a while to take effect, the other way is fast acting, using it in its weaponized form of a spray/gas, but there is no evidence of Watson being sprayed or gassed. Also Holmes is hardly likely to have gotten his hands on it anyway, whole point of the solution in the other episode is that the stuff is deadly and so likely destroyed as it was supposed to have been years earlier.

In terms of the writing Moffat wouldnt write that an element from another episode would have to play such a large role, I dont think any writer would unless its a continuing storyline through a series, but its not, aside from personal character development these are self contained stories. Its supposed to be a self contained mystery, with mystery writing all the elements to the solution are usually given or hinted at so that the audience can try to work it out (why the mask idea is a non starter, as there is no allusion to it) along with a good few red herrings as well (wouldnt be surprised if the mannequin is a red herring) this is particularly true of Holmes, as we are supposed to try and work it out as he does using observation of all the facts. Plus if was a possibility it would have been mentioned at some point in the episode, to establish it with the audience and make sure they remember it or if they havent seen the other episode to make them aware of it, I dont recall it being mentioned. 

[Brian Blessed]

strange, i got:


Richard Brook richard@r-brook.co.uk
9:32 PM (17 minutes ago)

to me
Hullo there!

Thanks for getting in touch. Unfortunately, I will be out of town and
without access to email for an unknown period of time. For all urgent
requests, please contact journalist Kitty Reilly, and she will be able
to direct your message. Otherwise, please feel free to reply with more
details and I'll be sure to respond when I return!

Thanks from your favourite storyteller,


Richard Brook

sorry, I meant the one above, not below.

[Slick_Beef]

He would've seen Sherlock jump, that's all that matters.

Surely the people he really needed to fool where the gunmen rather than Watson?

[Mouth]

Surely the people he really needed to fool where the gunmen rather than Watson?

He needed to fool Moriarty, who would then tell all the gunmen, not just the one about to shoot Watson, otherwise who calls the other off? And why once Holmes has jumped does the sniper hang about? Surely if he is has orders to take Watson out unless Holmes jumps, as soon as he does he would be off, but he waits, until Moriarty gives him the yes or no.

[The Gulleysucker]

There was something I noticed last night in the repeat, quite fleeting, but when Moriarty was mentioning that assassins where in place to kill all the friends of Holmes unless Holmes died, as well as showing the gun in the electricians tool box in Baker St, I thought one of the brief clips seemed to show an assassin was working within the police department(!), ie another policeman/woman looking across at LeStrade in his office. Now who might that be?

[BazC]

He needed to fool Moriarty, who would then tell all the gunmen, not just the one about to shoot Watson, otherwise who calls the other off? And why once Holmes has jumped does the sniper hang about? Surely if he is has orders to take Watson out unless Holmes jumps, as soon as he does he would be off, but he waits, until Moriarty gives him the yes or no.

Moriarty blew his own brains out before that happened. Unless...

[Barefoot Doctor]

He needed to fool Moriarty, who would then tell all the gunmen, not just the one about to shoot Watson, otherwise who calls the other off? And why once Holmes has jumped does the sniper hang about? Surely if he is has orders to take Watson out unless Holmes jumps, as soon as he does he would be off, but he waits, until Moriarty gives him the yes or no.

Maybe the sniper calls the other assassins off? There's a character in the books, Sebastian Moran. A highly-skilled sniper, he's basically Professor Moriarty's most trusted henchman. So, maybe stretching things a little, but the man targeting Watson may have been Moran. Would then make sense that he'd get in touch with the other killers.

If anyone's seen Sherlock Holmes: A Game Of Shadows, Moran's in that.

[reniformis]

One thing I do wonder about is what happened to Moriarty's body? No mention of his 'death' after the event. So his body wasn't found on the rooftop? What about the phone Sherlock chucked behind him before he jumped? And Mycroft reacted to the newspapers in a way that suggested that he believed it and wasn't involved, or that he was involved in the cover-up and wished he wasn't. More questions than answers, just like Moffat's Doctor Who story arcs, but hopefully with less disappointing resolutions.

[Mouth]

Maybe the sniper calls the other assassins off? There's a character in the books, Sebastian Moran. A highly-skilled sniper, he's basically Professor Moriarty's most trusted henchman. So, maybe stretching things a little, but the man targeting Watson may have been Moran. Would then make sense that he'd get in touch with the other killers.

If anyone's seen Sherlock Holmes: A Game Of Shadows, Moran's in that.

Moriarty would be the only one able to call them off. There is no mention of Moran or any henchmen, Moffat & Gatiss couldnt just pull one out of thin air now, Moriarty has always appeared alone and the one in full control giving the orders, if there have been underlings of his as far as I remember they havent been shown, other than laser dots from snipers. Also all the hitmen were shown to Watson by Mycroft, wasnt there five of them, 4 men one woman, two got killed, leaving two men, a man each for Watson and Mrs Hudson and the woman for Lestrade.

One thing I do wonder about is what happened to Moriarty's body? No mention of his 'death' after the event. So his body wasn't found on the rooftop? What about the phone Sherlock chucked behind him before he jumped? And Mycroft reacted to the newspapers in a way that suggested that he believed it and wasn't involved, or that he was involved in the cover-up and wished he wasn't. More questions than answers, just like Moffat's Doctor Who story arcs, but hopefully with less disappointing resolutions.

Good point, given the newspaper aspect to the story, surely if he was dead that would of been shown as a headline as well as Holmes or in conjunction 'Holmes and Moriarty dead' or something. The whole confession call to Watson was more for Moriarty than Watson, he could have just jumped off the roof. But Moriarty had to hear Holmes confirm he was a fraud to Watson, the final piece, that Watson the one person who doesnt believe and wont believe it unless Holmes says it, Holmes has to make Watson believe or at least go through the act of telling him, causing Sherlock the most amount of pain, lying to his only friend.

[Hank Scorpio]

Watching the 2nd espisode of the 2nd season last night on iPlayer and decided to switch from HD to SD because the picture started to cut out and wouldn't let me back in as said the programme had expired!  I was devastated.

[RedSandgrounder]

Watching the 2nd espisode of the 2nd season last night on iPlayer and decided to switch from HD to SD because the picture started to cut out and wouldn't let me back in as said the programme had expired!  I was devastated.

Second series is released on DVD today. Think I might be getting it, despite only watching it on iPlayer last week!

[Davvo7]

Second series is released on DVD today. Think I might be getting it, despite only watching it on iPlayer last week!

Same here mate! I got the first series box set the day after the re-run on BBc and sat and watched them all again straight away. Need to get a grip as it is likely going to be a while before we get another fix.

[Red Viper]

But Moriarty is dead!!! He has to be, I think it would be too ridiculous to have both him and Sherlock come back alive.

And the idea that the Moriarty we saw was an actor and not the real Moriarty just wouldn't work for me.

[Snail]

Got series two on DVD today, just listening to the commentary for ASiB now and Lara (Irene) actually did that scene absolutely starkers. And, not going to lie, if I had the opportunity to get naked and straddle Benedict Cumberbatch I'd probably do it too so y'know, fair play.

[tubby]

I would say that the use of the HOUND drug to confuse Watson would be too easy a way out, but given Moffat's ending to the last series of Doctor Who, its completely plausible.

This is what I'm most worried about too.  I'm excited to see how he survived, but it had better be totally logical and make proper sense.

[MagicHat]

"What Irene taught Molly about Sherlock"

I'd read it.

Literary classic of our time!

Seems like both lead actors, one pressed into it by the other (forget which one), and possibly the writers have been reading the fanfiction with horror/fascination as well. I do wonder why they would risk the mental scarring of seeing what the more adult fanfiction comes up with for their characters.

[Davvo7]

And, not going to lie, if I had the opportunity to get naked and straddle Benedict Cumberbatch I'd probably do it too so y'know, fair play.

That just made laugh out loud and spill my coffee! Minx!

[Noelle]

Found this:

Spoiler

[close]

Spoilered for length.

[Richiemc]

Looks a lot like mycroft on the stretcher in the last section of pictures??

[MichaelA]

Looks a lot like mycroft on the stretcher in the last section of pictures??

hhmm. I'll buy that version of events for a dollar.

[Richiemc]

Haha highly unlikely I know, but it looks more like mycroft than Sherlock. In fact it looks more like me that Sherlock

[Stussy]

Sherlock has ruined Sunday evenings now.

Without it, so plain.

[Davvo7]

If you have an iPad, the majority of the original Conan Doyle books are now available for free on iBooks to download.

I'v gone for the lot of them as I haven't read that many of the stories so should keep me out of mischief for a bit.

[Red Beret]

Had no idea Benedict Cumberbatch was playing Smaug in the Hobbit films.  Somebody must have decided his chemistry with Martin Freeman was worth continuing.

[Snail]

Sherlock has ruined Sunday evenings now.

Without it, so plain.

Aye, I'm suffering from serious withdrawal symptoms.

[Davvo7]

Strictly speaking not on topic, but saw this today.

Jonny Lee Miller takes on Frankenstein co-star in US Sherlock Holmes updateActor who alternated roles on stage with Benedict Cumberbatch will play version of same Conan Doyle character in Elementary

Mark Sweney
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 15 February 2012 19.35 GMT Article history 

Last year Jonny Lee Miller and Benedict Cumberbatch shared a prestigious theatre award after alternating the lead roles in a West End production of Frankenstein.

Now they are sharing a role again, after Miller was cast as Sherlock Holmes in a US series that brings the legendary detective up to date – just as Cumberbatch's hit BBC show does.

Miller, who first rose to prominence in Trainspotting, will portray the fictional detective in a pilot called Elementary for the US network CBS.

Like the BBC's Sherlock, Elementary will have a contemporary setting, with Miller playing a New York-based Holmes tackling updated versions of the detective's traditional cases.

He will have a tough act to follow, with Cumberbatch's performance in the BBC's contemporary adaptation of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's detective stories, co-created by Mark Gatiss and Steven Moffat, winning plaudits in the UK and US and helping propel him towards Hollywood star status.

Cumberbatch will play the villain in the next Star Trek movie and is also providing the voices of Smaug the dragon and the Necromancer in Peter Jackson's two-part film adaptation of The Hobbit.

Miller and Cumberbatch shared the best actor award in November at the London Evening Standard theatre awards for their performances in last year's National Theatre production of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, with the pair alternating the roles of Victor Frankenstein and the Creature. The play also reunited Miller with Trainspotting director Danny Boyle.


Miller was last seen on US TV in eight episodes of serial killer drama Dexter as a motivational speaker called Jordan Chase in 2010. He has also starred in ABC's primetime soap Eli Stone and played Mr Knightley in an adaptation of Jane Austen's Emma in 2009.

He has two films coming out this year, including Tim Burton's new horror movie Dark Shadows and a thriller, Byzantium, which co-stars Gemma Arterton and Saoirse Ronan.

Doyle's detective character is no longer protected under copyright law – Guy Ritchie has taken Holmes to the big screen recently in two action movie outings starring Robert Downey Jr and Jude Law.

However, if the US version were to too closely mimic the BBC's modern take, there could be cause for legal action. Sherlock is aired in the US by public service broadcaster PBS.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2012/feb/15/sherlock-holmes-jonny-lee-miller

[Stussy]

Oh fuck off.