Topic: FC Class & Dignity. The Senior club in the city thread.(The new Everton thread)

[Graeme]

You have no authority here Joe Anderson, no authority at all.

[Tesco tearaway]

One of the new mayor candidates... 

[keano7]

Everton’s new stadium plans at Bramley Moore unanimously approved by Liverpool CC’s Planning Committee, subject to any intervention by the Secretary of State.

[Son of Spion＊]

Everton’s new stadium plans at Bramley Moore unanimously approved by Liverpool CC’s Planning Committee, subject to any intervention by the Secretary of State and the fact they don't have the money to finance it anyway.

[Fiasco]

I'm not against the stadium at all, that area of the city is a dump and it needs regenerating significantly. The logistical challenge of building a stadium there is one thing, but the age old question is obviously about finances. £500 million wont get that stadium built, it'll likely be way more than that. Where are they getting half a billion quid from anyway? Uncle Uzzy they'll say, but it isn't as straightforward as that either.

Can anyone seriously enlighten me on how this realistically gets done?

[the_toffee]

I've wondered about the financial aspect of it myself. Seems too good to be true, but I hope I'm wrong.

Serious question coming up. How do you reds feel about Everton leaving Goodison?

If the tables were turned and you were leaving Anfield, I have to say I'd feel a bit sad about it. All that history, the umpteen derbies, the feel of the place... I'm a nostalgic fool I suppose, but one thing I've learned after moving to America is that history and culture is worth preserving. Goodison is sadly very difficult to expand but I can't shake the feeling that we're trading 130 years of history at Goodison with some plasticy franchise like horror. The USM Hummel Stadium or something equally horrific.

[Graeme]

Just can't see in a million years how a club that needs Chinese overdrafts and loans secured against future TV revenue to pay its running costs (and that was before Covid!) can ever be in a position to fund a stadium of this cost.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Usmanov lends his mate the money, obviously. We're all just in denial.

[Smellytrabs]

Shit getting real for the Debt Dome.

[mikeb58]

I've wondered about the financial aspect of it myself. Seems too good to be true, but I hope I'm wrong.

Serious question coming up. How do you reds feel about Everton leaving Goodison?

I live in the area, it will be a shame to see it go. I have said many times though it will be good for the City overall if you relocate the Bramley Moore.

I have also said, I think you should have took the chance to redevelop and expand Goodison when the new Park End was built. I saw plans from blues who reckoned the Ground could have been developed one side and a time, how feasible these plans where I'm not sure.

I also quite honestly think, opposing teams will prefer and feel the benefit of playing in your new Stadium as much as you!

Goodison may be way past its sell by date, but to the the modern day footballer it can be a daunting place to play if your fans are up for it. With all due respect, it really is like playing a team from the lower divisions.

It could be argued Everton will lose that aspect of their home advantage if they move.

I will won't be jealous of your new Stadium, I love Anfield so much, and what they achieved in developing it is amazing, they just need to do the Annie Rd now, that is still a bit shit! Either way I wouldn't swap for any other stadium or location in the world.

Good luck with the move going the head, but I foresee a whole load of problems financing it.

[Son of Spion＊]

I've wondered about the financial aspect of it myself. Seems too good to be true, but I hope I'm wrong.

Serious question coming up. How do you reds feel about Everton leaving Goodison?

If the tables were turned and you were leaving Anfield, I have to say I'd feel a bit sad about it. All that history, the umpteen derbies, the feel of the place... I'm a nostalgic fool I suppose, but one thing I've learned after moving to America is that history and culture is worth preserving. Goodison is sadly very difficult to expand but I can't shake the feeling that we're trading 130 years of history at Goodison with some plasticy franchise like horror. The USM Hummel Stadium or something equally horrific.

It's an interesting question you ask.

Personally, I have no interest in where Everton play one way or the other. As a club and a fanbase they seem to have abandoned what used to make them special anyway, so they don't seem interested in tradition anymore anyway.

Everton's take on new stadiums changes with the wind too. When Liverpool floated the idea of a new stadium in Stanley Park, all the noise coming from the Everton fanbase was telling us how they would be staying at an historic football ground, whilst we would be abandoning traditionl for a soulless monstrosity. We were told that history and tradition were everything back then.

Now, we are told history counts for nothing, and glass, concrete and bricks by a waterway is everything. So, it's difficult to know what people genuinely feel because their opinion changes like the weather does.

Everton have been so poorly run for so long that they'd painted themselves into a corner with the ground. Goodison is a shambling wreck now. Anyone who gets close up to it can see this, and no amount of cladding and mural tarps can hide the fact. They either have to move or have to redevelop before it's too late.

Any affection I once had for Everton is dead now, so I don't care what they do or where they go. I suppose if I took that out of the equation I'd arrive at an answer by looking at a club I do still have respect for rather than looking at Everton. Looking at Arsenal, I'd say that I do feel that much has been lost for them due to their move from Highbury to that awful thing they occupy now. They rake in more money, but have lost so much more with that move. Same aplies to West Ham. The just is still out on Spurs' new place as it's too early to tell.

[Fiasco]

I live in the area, it will be a shame to see it go. I have said many times though it will be good for the City overall if you relocate the Bramley Moore.

I have also said, I think you should have took the chance to redevelop and expand Goodison when the new Park End was built. I saw plans from blues who reckoned the Ground could have been developed one side and a time, how feasible these plans where I'm not sure.

I also quite honestly think, opposing teams will prefer and feel the benefit of playing in your new Stadium as much as you!

Goodison may be way past its sell by date, but to the the modern day footballer it can be a daunting place to play if your fans are up for it. With all due respect, it really is like playing a team from the lower divisions.

It could be argued Everton will lose that aspect of their home advantage if they move.

I will won't be jealous of your new Stadium, I love Anfield so much, and what they achieved in developing it is amazing, they just need to do the Annie Rd now, that is stil, a bit shit! Either way I wouldn't swap for any other stadium or location in the world.

Good luck with the move going the head, but I foresee a whole load of problems financing it.

Some good points here. Speaking without bias here, I don't think any team goes to play Everton at a full Goodison and looks forward to it. Certainly they don't go there expecting 3 points. Goodison over the last few years has become a cesspit, a vicious, unhappy place. I don't say that to take the piss by the way. The booing, the fans venting frustration because the team isn't living up to the expectations that the fans themselves over-estimated, the poor quality of football at times and the changing of managers etc. We even had a fan nearly lobbing his kid at an opponent's player. If that atmosphere is difficult for Everton it most definitely must be weird for opposing teams.

As for the new stadium (on the assumption it magically gets built), it will be a fresh, new beginning but with that is a void of history. Anfield, and other stadiums like it, have history just by looking at a photo of the place. Goals scored at a certain end, a winner here, the last minute winner there, the European night (take your pick) that is down in folklore on top of that. I mean you can go on and on. Goodison doesn't have that list but it does have something that they'll lose. They'll try their best to not have a soulless bowl, but doesn't every team say that when moving to a new stadium? Goodison is a big part of Everton's soul, for good and bad, and to potentially move into a shiny new place on the waterfront might not be what they hope for.

[Son of Spion＊]

I live in the area, it will be a shame to see it go. I have said many times though it will be good for the City overall if you relocate the Bramley Moore.

I have also said, I think you should have took the chance to redevelop and expand Goodison when the new Park End was built. I saw plans from blues who reckoned the Ground could have been developed one side and a time, how feasible these plans where I'm not sure.

I also quite honestly think, opposing teams will prefer and feel the benefit of playing in your new Stadium as much as you!

Goodison may be way past its sell by date, but to the the modern day footballer it can be a daunting place to play if your fans are up for it. With all due respect, it really is like playing a team from the lower divisions.

It could be argued Everton will lose that aspect of their home advantage if they move.

I will won't be jealous of your new Stadium, I love Anfield so much, and what they achieved in developing it is amazing, they just need to do the Annie Rd now, that is still a bit shit! Either way I wouldn't swap for any other stadium or location in the world.

Good luck with the move going the head, but I foresee a whole load of problems financing it.

I think that bit in bold almost goes without saying.

I'd much rather Liverpool play Arsenal at the Emirates than Highbury, and much rather play Spurs at their new place (sorry, I've forgotten its name) than WHL. Same with West Ham, who are a far less daunting prospect at the althletics ground than they were at Upton Park.

I know Goodison is not really that passionate (I've been, so know from experience) unless it's a Derby game, but I think others, as well as us, would rather play Everton in a sanitised new environment than at Goodison.

I've yet to see a new build that is intimidating and that has added rather than taken away from the traditional atmosphere at a club. Maybe at BMD Evertonians might be less toxic and more positive, but only time will tell there, if it gets built.

[DonkeyWan]

Thing is, if they don't get it funded, they are fucked. If they do get it funded, they are also fucked, in an entirely different way.

[Son of Spion＊]

Thing is, if they don't get it funded, they are fucked. If they do get it funded, they are also fucked, in an entirely different way.

Genuine question.

Who, in their right mind, in the current global climate, would fund such a scheme? 

People are talking about a major recession or even a depression post-covid, so who is going to be interested in funding such a vanity project at this time?

[Dim Glas]

I've wondered about the financial aspect of it myself. Seems too good to be true, but I hope I'm wrong.

Serious question coming up. How do you reds feel about Everton leaving Goodison?

If the tables were turned and you were leaving Anfield, I have to say I'd feel a bit sad about it. All that history, the umpteen derbies, the feel of the place... I'm a nostalgic fool I suppose, but one thing I've learned after moving to America is that history and culture is worth preserving. Goodison is sadly very difficult to expand but I can't shake the feeling that we're trading 130 years of history at Goodison with some plasticy franchise like horror. The USM Hummel Stadium or something equally horrific.

In a way it’s a shame.

It was always a sort of weird thing with Liverpool that both clubs where so close geographically, so in that sense it’s a shame, as it was almost an uniqueness to what is an unique city.

Another thing that I find a shame - and this goes for a lot of new stadium moves, not specifically Everton, is how it takes a team away from it’s original community - Manchester City being a good example of this. Leaving the Moss Side/Rusholme area, for all it’s bad parts - still very vibrant, to go to a soulless cookie-cutter stadium, and in Man City’s case -in a soulless desolate part of the city.

There’s a reason these gounds where in such communities, and sure, you can say football has moved on, but it’s still sad to me to see these teams go from where they have been for so long.

It’s a shame clubs didn’t do more for those communities rather than move the money elesewhere though, but that’s a whole different story.

From a fan perspective, my concern with Everton would be the cost and how it’ll affect the team moving on. Everton have been one of the biggest spenders in the league the last few years, with only Man City, Chelsea and Man Utd I think spending more. Can that continue? IF this is a case of your dodgy Russian dumping in billions still, then for the sake of the club, hopefully it doesn’t end in tears. 

With the way of the world now, I’d be nervous about my team making such a move. I’d be nervous if Liverpool go on with another stand re-buld at this stage, let alone anything else

[BIG DICK NICK]

Hoping a shiny new stadium by the river works as well for them as it had done for Boro and Sunderland.

[DonkeyWan]

Genuine question.

Who, in their right mind, in the current global climate, would fund such a scheme? 

People are talking about a major recession or even a depression post-covid, so who is going to be interested in funding such a vanity project at this time?

It's hard say. The obvious answer is Usmanov (who, despite the obvious doubts on here, does have some input behind the scenes) but even he would have to have doubts about the value of pouring funds into Everton like that. Even if he built the stadium (and hardly for free, as the Everton fans seem to think he will) it will not make an iota of difference to the current disparity between Everton and everyone else. Increasing their capacity by 10-15,000 will hardly improve revenue and they are miles behind in commercial funding.

Their accounts are also abysmal, they will probably incur FFP penalties this year or next. Their recent share issue is, as far as I can see, just loading more debt onto the club (framed as equity) though it would be interesting to hear Craig's views on that, as he is better at the accounts than the rest of us. What Moshiri did, as far as i can see, is pretty dubious. Issued a 100,000 shares and then bought the bulk to pay off the club's debts (debt's he had accrued). What I didn't see is whether he used his own money, or laid the cost of the shares on the club, Glazier style. Either way, I still think there is no way they can avoid contravening FFP, but I am not an accountant.

So, do they borrow against the club (doubtful, it's run a deficit three years running, last year was shocking), get money from Usmanov (why would he?) or mortgage their future one more time? They could be banking on making CL, but at this rate they will still only break even.

[Tesco tearaway]

Genuine question.

Who, in their right mind, in the current global climate, would fund such a scheme? 

People are talking about a major recession or even a depression post-covid, so who is going to be interested in funding such a vanity project at this time?

They've got it covered mate 

[A-Bomb]

Genuine question.

Who, in their right mind, in the current global climate, would fund such a scheme? 

People are talking about a major recession or even a depression post-covid, so who is going to be interested in funding such a vanity project at this time?

You would expect any organisation that has taken the project to planning stage, should have also planned for how they intend to finance it. Otherwise it's just throwing a substantial amount of money at the application, legal and drawings with no ability to get it off the ground - thus they'd be as well just burning those notes... it would be about as useful.

I personally hope they have funding and get it off the ground, it'll be a big albartross around their neck for at least a decade.

[Son of Spion＊]

It's hard say. The obvious answer is Usmanov (who, despite the obvious doubts on here, does have some input behind the scenes) but even he would have to have doubts about the value of pouring funds into Everton like that. Even if he built the stadium (and hardly for free, as the Everton fans seem to think he will) it will not make an iota of difference to the current disparity between Everton and everyone else. Increasing their capacity by 10-15,000 will hardly improve revenue and they are miles behind in commercial funding.

Their accounts are also abysmal, they will probably incur FFP penalties this year or next. Their recent share issue is, as far as I can see, just loading more debt onto the club (framed as equity) though it would be interesting to hear Craig's views on that, as he is better at the accounts than the rest of us. What Moshiri did, as far as i can see, is pretty dubious. Issued a 100,000 shares and then bought the bulk to pay off the club's debts (debt's he had accrued). What I didn't see is whether he used his own money, or laid the cost of the shares on the club, Glazier style. Either way, I still think there is no way they can avoid contravening FFP, but I am not an accountant.

So, do they borrow against the club (doubtful, it's run a deficit three years running, last year was shocking), get money from Usmanov (why would he?) or mortgage their future one more time? They could be banking on making CL, but at this rate they will still only break even.

Thanks.

It all looks so precious, doesn't it. More highly risky than well thought out. A huge gamble for all concerned. The last throw of the Everton dice?

[Son of Spion＊]

You would expect any organisation that has taken the project to planning stage, should have also planned for how they intend to finance it. Otherwise it's just throwing a substantial amount of money at the application, legal and drawings with no ability to get it off the ground - thus they'd be as well just burning those notes... it would be about as useful.

I personally hope they have funding and get it off the ground, it'll be a big albartross around their neck for at least a decade.

It will definitely be a millstone around their necks. They are struggling now, so God only knows how they'll cope with another monumental debt added to the ones they already have. Ticket prices will have to rise substantially too, and once the novelty wears off the fans will drift away once more.

[Son of Spion＊]

They've got it covered mate 

😁
Finally, we have the answer.

[Gladbach73]

I've wondered about the financial aspect of it myself. Seems too good to be true, but I hope I'm wrong.

Serious question coming up. How do you reds feel about Everton leaving Goodison?

If the tables were turned and you were leaving Anfield, I have to say I'd feel a bit sad about it. All that history, the umpteen derbies, the feel of the place... I'm a nostalgic fool I suppose, but one thing I've learned after moving to America is that history and culture is worth preserving. Goodison is sadly very difficult to expand but I can't shake the feeling that we're trading 130 years of history at Goodison with some plasticy franchise like horror. The USM Hummel Stadium or something equally horrific.

Like many on here, and living in L12, I have absolutely no problem with the development of a run down area, that makes my City a better place. Hopefully it is then a catalyst for further development of a neglected area. The only doubt I have is the finance of the build, because I think it’s going to be well in excess of the £500m that was suggested some time ago. I heard Usmanov is putting £100m into the project, so that leaves a huge gap to find.

I haven’t heard of what May become of Goodison, but you have to spare a thought for all the local businesses that will lose custom as a result of the move, pubs, food outlets etc, it’s people’s livelihoods.

Contrary to what some Blues may think I’m not in the least bit jealous, just glad another part of our City has plans to improve it. I still hope the Reds can spoil the fun at the first Derby game there, and win!

[4pool]

Genuine question.

Who, in their right mind, in the current global climate, would fund such a scheme? 

People are talking about a major recession or even a depression post-covid, so who is going to be interested in funding such a vanity project at this time?

Money launderers ...

[mobydick]

Is it going to stay at this number though? Looking at the rise of £200m since 2017 I very much doubt it.

[mikeb58]

Anyone remember what our new Main Stand cost?

[disgraced cake]

'It's a good time to be a blue' - Evertonians say unironically, as they near a 26th year since silverware was last clinched

[BIG DICK NICK]

Anyone remember what our new Main Stand cost?

FC Big Stand.

[red_Mark1980]

Fuck them. Let them move to a stadium next to a sewage works.

Should re brand themselves as Bramley Moore FC.

[Son of Spion＊]

Fuck them. Let them move to a stadium next to a sewage works.

Should re brand themselves as Bramley Moore FC.

It's down as a sewage works extension on the planning application, I believe.

[ChrisLFCKOP]

Anyone remember what our new Main Stand cost?

Sure it was about £120m.

[AnthonyStabile]

It's hard say. The obvious answer is Usmanov (who, despite the obvious doubts on here, does have some input behind the scenes) but even he would have to have doubts about the value of pouring funds into Everton like that. Even if he built the stadium (and hardly for free, as the Everton fans seem to think he will) it will not make an iota of difference to the current disparity between Everton and everyone else. Increasing their capacity by 10-15,000 will hardly improve revenue and they are miles behind in commercial funding.

Their accounts are also abysmal, they will probably incur FFP penalties this year or next. Their recent share issue is, as far as I can see, just loading more debt onto the club (framed as equity) though it would be interesting to hear Craig's views on that, as he is better at the accounts than the rest of us. What Moshiri did, as far as i can see, is pretty dubious. Issued a 100,000 shares and then bought the bulk to pay off the club's debts (debt's he had accrued). What I didn't see is whether he used his own money, or laid the cost of the shares on the club, Glazier style. Either way, I still think there is no way they can avoid contravening FFP, but I am not an accountant.

So, do they borrow against the club (doubtful, it's run a deficit three years running, last year was shocking), get money from Usmanov (why would he?) or mortgage their future one more time? They could be banking on making CL, but at this rate they will still only break even.

The way I read the share issue was that it’s a way of Moshiri to pump money into the club to help improve the balance sheet. The 100,000 of shares at 3000 each is a new investment into Everton of 300m.

He already put in 135m to purchase his 77% and another 350m in director loans. Apparently with this new investment (300m) 200m of it will be to increase his ownership to 92% and in return he’s gonna write off 100m off the director loans he’s owed. Will be owed 250m still.

The final 100m of the latest investment will go towards the new stadium and in return the shares released will increase his ownership up to 99%.

Dodgy as fuck that he paid 135m for 77% and a further 300m for the remaining 22 odd %. I guessing as the investment goes into the club under the guise of buying shares then it circumvents ffp but he won’t be able to do that going forward as effectively he owns the whole club. His total investment will stand at 685m. They reckon 100m from Moshiri last investment (share issue) + 100m sponsership ( usm ? Again dodgy as fuck as Spurs still haven’t got a sponser for theirs but these schmuks have already had 30m with another 100m promised) and the rest borrowed will fund the stadium.

I’m no accountant like but Moshiri would have to sell Everton for over a billion to break even.

On 300m finance @ 5% they be looking at 15m per yr in interest alone.

Also I believe once planning permission granted they can capitalise previous stadium expenditure so I could be wrong but all of these done (new investment & previous expenditure capitalised) might put them back in profit and be a perfect time to apply for stadium finance.

[Black Bull Nova]

Well surprise surprise!
Some of my bitter mates who I haven't heard from in years are texting and giving me stick.
I've never, not even once, given them any stick about the derby results when they've gone our way.
Bitter, bitter, gobshites 

If a shooting star is in the sky then it does not get mentioned, if it's a comet it does.

Comets are very rare.

[Tesco tearaway]

If a shooting star is in the sky then it does not get mentioned, if it's a comet it does.

Comets are very rare.

Seems that their comet is on a 22 year orbit 
 

[Black Bull Nova]

The thing is, we built a main stand, a revenue raiser from corporate hospitality that a club like Liverpool can bring in. Everton do not have the base for that national and international hospitality money like Spurs, United, Chelsea and Arsenal also have.

14,000 extra seats at £40 per game, at best 25 games a season (assuming full).

That's £14m a year. That's 36 years just to pay off the capital. Yes there will be some corporate and entertainment revenue and a small amount of revenue from Goodison (albeit substantially less than Highbury and mainly involving recycled timber)

They need prolonged success to raise revenue at a time when revenues are falling, without an international fan base and competing against Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, United, City (who, let's face it even we face challenges competing with).

They have spent a fortune and their prospects are no better than that of West Ham in terms of joining the elite. Indeed, how ironic it would be if Moyes, still relatively young compared to Carlo, were to repeat what he did at Everton and turn them into the team that keeps Everton out of Europe and the success they crave.

It is a massive gamble.

[12C]

We didn't do fuck all but score two and defend well. You did neither.

Hello.
Been away have you?

[DonkeyWan]

The way I read the share issue was that it’s a way of Moshiri to pump money into the club to help improve the balance sheet. The 100,000 of shares at 3000 each is a new investment into Everton of 300m.

He already put in 135m to purchase his 77% and another 350m in director loans. Apparently with this new investment (300m) 200m of it will be to increase his ownership to 92% and in return he’s gonna write off 100m off the director loans he’s owed. Will be owed 250m still.

The final 100m of the latest investment will go towards the new stadium and in return the shares released will increase his ownership up to 99%.

Dodgy as fuck that he paid 135m for 77% and a further 300m for the remaining 22 odd %. I guessing as the investment goes into the club under the guise of buying shares then it circumvents ffp but he won’t be able to do that going forward as effectively he owns the whole club. His total investment will stand at 685m. They reckon 100m from Moshiri last investment (share issue) + 100m sponsership ( usm ? Again dodgy as fuck as Spurs still haven’t got a sponser for theirs but these schmuks have already had 30m with another 100m promised) and the rest borrowed will fund the stadium.

I’m no accountant like but Moshiri would have to sell Everton for over a billion to break even.

On 300m finance @ 5% they be looking at 15m per yr in interest alone.

Also I believe once planning permission granted they can capitalise previous stadium expenditure so I could be wrong but all of these done (new investment & previous expenditure capitalised) might put them back in profit and be a perfect time to apply for stadium finance.

Ahh, that is clearly different to what I thought. Looking around, you are quite right that he appears to have put the money in himself, but it seems it was used to clear debt. So, they are running out of options at this point.

[Son of Spion＊]

Hello.
Been away have you?

I knew a long lost blue would turn up on here around Derby Day. I just didn't know which one it would be.

On a personal note, I only know a very few blues, but the ones I know are good people as well as good football fans. I've not heard a peep from them since the game at Anfield. Not a peep. No coming out of the woodwork after 22 years to be cocky. Mind you, I've never given them grief for the last 22 years either.

I like that. No bullshit. Just mutual respect.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I'm not sure there's that much to be cocky about.
We gave them a good chance a couple of years back by playing the kids and they messed that one up.
This time we were without 4 CBs plus some other players, were low on confidence due to injuries and the effect of some "strange" reffing.
Then we lose a 5th CB in the first half and have to contend with yet more virtually unprecedented interpretations of the LOTG.

For once, Everton achieved what they should have done.