Author Topic: FC Class & Dignity. The Senior club in the city thread.(The new Everton thread)  (Read 758703 times)

Online Black Bull Nova

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I am assuming Carlon was aware of their finances at interview, it would have been interesting to hear the response to the

"Do I have funds to totally rebuild this squad"

question
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Online Peabee

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I’ve checked and there is a £300m shareholder loan in Reserves (equity). He’s even charged Everton £1.5m as an arrangement fee.
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I’ve checked and there is a £300m shareholder loan in Reserves (equity). He’s even charged Everton £1.5m as an arrangement fee.

 :o
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Online Peabee

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:o

Basically it’s a proper commercial loan, so I expect there will be interest too otherwise under FRS102 it would have to be ‘discounted’. But it’s valued at initial transaction price (less transaction cost of arrangement fee) which suggests to me it has an interest rate at fair or market value. 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 11:30:09 PM by Peabee »
“We aren't walking through the storm now - we are the storm.“ Zlen, 30/12/18

Offline Red Berry

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He'll get it back. Despite appearances, he's not totally daft. He bought Everton because he thought he could get a free stadium from the council for the Commonwealth Games, like Man City did, and instantly increase their worth. There's no way he'd have bought them otherwise. It seemed like a shoe-in at one point and so it was a reasonable gamble, but it failed.

If he is positioning himself to get out he'll have set things up so he wont lose out; that's his job as an accountant. Maybe he'll arrange matters such that he'll have dibs on a huge chunk of the TV money every season until his loan is paid off. Or something like that.

Plus he's probably found the Arteta money and slipped it into his manbag while Bill wasn't looking

I think arthur is more on the money.  Moshiri's made a mistake and rather than cut his losses he's doubling down.  There is no way he is making back £500m odd on Everton.  Fucking hell, the Cowboys never made that much off of us.  They paid £220m for us and we were sold for about £300m, not even bothering with the facts about debt, penalty payments that caused them to lose money etc.

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Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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He’s even charged Everton £1.5m as an arrangement fee.
thats the arteta money right there!

Offline AnthonyStabile

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On the FFP point then, they would have to make a profit of 20m next year or they would fail based on 105m of losses over 3 years? is that why this 30m from USM is being dropped in now to make sure they don't fail FFP?

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On the FFP point then, they would have to make a profit of 20m next year or they would fail based on 105m of losses over 3 years? is that why this 30m from USM is being dropped in now to make sure they don't fail FFP?

Not sure they could count it as profit given it is for a future development... prob just helps with cash flow.
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Online Ghost Town

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I think arthur is more on the money.  Moshiri's made a mistake and rather than cut his losses he's doubling down.
While that would be hilarious I think it's very unlikely. He didn't get where he is today by doubling down on sunk costs and throwing good money after bad, while knowing he'd never get it back. We rip into him but he's not completely stupid - as I said even his purchase of Everton was a reasonable gamble at the time. He'll have something sorted to ensure that he walks away golden. He's not just a rich guy, he's a rich guy who's also a successful accountant.

Whatever he has up his sleeve, it'll probably be tragic for Everton, but at least Davek will be able to say 'I told you so' to the other nutters.
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Offline planet-terror

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Is that an episode of gavin n Stacey.
bollocks

Offline AnthonyStabile

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One things for sure moshiris mate is using his company to pay way over the odds to try and keep them out the shit.  Sponsorship for a training ground they don't even own doubled from 6m to 12m per year when there's no competition. 30m just for 1st refusal to sponser a stadium that's not even got planning/funding  agreed.

Dodgy as fuck

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If they ever got relegated they would be well and truly fucked at a stroke
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Offline Ratboy3G

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https://theesk.org/2020/01/14/record-losses-for-2018-19-but-future-pathway-clearer-with-usm-naming-rights-option/

The Esk speaks...

Another first for the Ev......first refusal for naming rights to a non-existent stadium that will more than likely never be built, but if it is it will ruin them
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Offline Chakan

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https://theesk.org/2020/01/14/record-losses-for-2018-19-but-future-pathway-clearer-with-usm-naming-rights-option/

The Esk speaks...

Quote
Summary

Everton have clearly invested to become more competitive, to increase the chances of success on the pitch. The return on the investment made  so far has been poor, but with Brands and Ancelotti we have the right management experience to move us forwards.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Online Peabee

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Why is he giving them free PR and spin? Why not analyse the accounts objectively? That’s right: he can’t. He doesn’t understand a single page after all the bluster in the first half of the accounts promising the world. If he could, he would see that Moshiri is loaning more and more each year, while generating higher losses and revenue going down while wages are increasing. The loan is on a commercial basis, so Moshiri is charging them arrangement fees and interest. Maybe he’s figured the interest and charges earned will be higher than any bank deposit account.
“We aren't walking through the storm now - we are the storm.“ Zlen, 30/12/18

Online Sons of pioneerS

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More like a guy that has made a really bad investment, and rather than cut his losses is throwing everything he has in, trying for other investors, and basically not admitting he made a mistake.  A deluded belief that it'll all turn around soon, and riches are there tomorrow.

I'm not really clued-up on financial stuff but, looking on from a distance, Moshilad gives me the impression of a gambler desperately throwing more and more money onto the table, unable to quit and hoping if he does it for long enough his luck will turn. It all seems rather self-destructive to me. Am I seeing this wrongly, or is the guy on the road towards his own financial suicide?
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Online Peabee

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:lmao :lmao :lmao

Moshiri has put in £300m and the club lost another £110m.

It appears that he has paid off all their main debts and loans via a loan from one of his companies.  Given there are £7m of interest charges, he’s not providing those loans interest free. He’s making a better return than from any bank.
“We aren't walking through the storm now - we are the storm.“ Zlen, 30/12/18

Online Peabee

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I'm not really clued-up on financial stuff but, looking on from a distance, Moshilad gives me the impression of a gambler desperately throwing more and more money onto the table, unable to quit and hoping if he does it for long enough his luck will turn. It all seems rather self-destructive to me. Am I seeing this wrongly, or is the guy on the road towards his own financial suicide?

He’s making money off them mate. £7m in interest charges paid out and he’s paid off all the loans via a £300m loan to Everton from his own company. As long as TV money keeps coming in, he’ll be making a return.
“We aren't walking through the storm now - we are the storm.“ Zlen, 30/12/18

Online Sons of pioneerS

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It was rumoured to be £92m in December, so either that figure was slightly off or the loss jumped £20m in the past month. :o

Plus £350m Shareholder "loan"?  wtf does that even mean?  That's basically money the owner has put into the club, right?  That's a huge amount for precious little return.
Christmas is rather expensive you know.  ;)
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Online Sons of pioneerS

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He’s making money off them mate. £7m in interest charges paid out and he’s paid off all the loans via a £300m loan to Everton from his own company. As long as TV money keeps coming in, he’ll be making a return.

So he's not as daft as he looks then, eh.  ;)

Your post has deprived me of the opportunity to post a video of the Kenwrong and Moshi Foundation K foundation burning money for the hell of it.

Sod it, I'll post it anyway. Burning millions is the Everton way.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/InZydV39hb8" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/InZydV39hb8</a>  :D
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Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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Vote Labour

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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He’s making money off them mate. £7m in interest charges paid out and he’s paid off all the loans via a £300m loan to Everton from his own company. As long as TV money keeps coming in, he’ll be making a return.
dont forget him and his mates buying the liver building and moving loads of everton staff there, no doubt on a nice long lease

Offline Skeeve

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I’m no accountant, but that doesn’t look very good to me.  Yet Everton fans are getting giddy because there’s a £30m option for sponsoring the new ground, but that money is ring fenced for stadium development?

I’ve long given up trying to understand them, but this seems particularly mad.  I’m obviously missing something.

They also seem to be focusing on the net debt reducing over the the big loss too.

Offline Something Worse

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Catcher has gone off the deep end, they do this to themselves every time anything happens.

If anything I'd be more worried that it's costing 30m to get them to stop threatening their players. What happens next time they meltdown? 50m? 60m? Usmanov is rich but nobody is that rich.

Offline Craig 🤔

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Lease commitments seem to have risen by over £20m - I’m assuming this is pretty much entirely for the Liver Buildings?

Offline red_Mark1980

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Catcher has gone off the deep end, they do this to themselves every time anything happens.

If anything I'd be more worried that it's costing 30m to get them to stop threatening their players. What happens next time they meltdown? 50m? 60m? Usmanov is rich but nobody is that rich.

Him again. He's such a high brow intellectual, I'm surprised he doesn't think football is phoney
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Offline Wabaloolah

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So currently they are spending £160m on wages, an increase of £15m and they have showed no progress over the period. 85%

£132m of their revenue is on TV money, which is 70%!

Those two lines alone are shocking, if they ever went down, on those figures they've had it.
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Offline Craig 🤔

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They also signed away their PL income as security once again in November - so fuck knows what they think they’re going to secure a stadium loan on.

Offline Raid

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Lease commitments seem to have risen by over £20m - I’m assuming this is pretty much entirely for the Liver Buildings?

But it was worth it as it made Kopite heads fall off

Online Ghost Town

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But it was worth it as it made Kopite heads fall off
That Liver building thing is hilarious. Moshi makes them move offices totally unnecessarily into prime and expensive office space and then charges them handsomely for the privilege and they celebrate being ripped off like that. Loonies.
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Offline Groundskeeper Willie

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Paying 30m for the opportunity to sponsor possible stadium. Is that really kosher?
They don't think it be like it is, but it do.

Offline Craig 🤔

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Paying 30m for the opportunity to sponsor possible stadium. Is that really kosher?

It’s just another way to funnel money (that’s seen as legit in FFP terms) into the club - just like paying £12m to sponsor the training ground... which is only £3m less than United get from their training ground and training kit sponsor!!

Offline No666

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They also signed away their PL income as security once again in November - so fuck knows what they think they’re going to secure a stadium loan on.
So is the PL income now security for Moshiri's loans?

Offline Craig 🤔

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So is the PL income now security for Moshiri's loans?

No, this is with another company.

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They're actually convinced they've got owners like City, bless their little hearts.

Online Peabee

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Being objective, Moshiri providing the debt/loans, which is treated as equity, will help them obtain financing for the stadium (banks would see it as more of a risk if the loans were from third parties, but with Moshiri they can stipulate that they’re repaid before him etc?). If they can chop their wage bill and sign some improved commercial deals, they may be okay. It just depends whether they can be sensible like that, because it begs the question why didn’t Moshiri do this from the start? was it just a case of him not finding the right football people initially?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 09:00:41 AM by Peabee »
“We aren't walking through the storm now - we are the storm.“ Zlen, 30/12/18

Offline Craig 🤔

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Being objective, Moshiri providing the debt/loans, which is treated as equity, will help them obtain financing for the stadium. If they can chop their wage bill and sign some improved commercial deals, they may be okay. It just depends whether they can be sensible like that, because it begs the question why didn’t Moshiri do this from the start? was it just a case of him not finding the right football people initially?

It will help them better than if the loans were from a 3rd party, but they are still loans and they will still be taken into account by any lenders - especially given they also have other charges against various revenue streams.

Offline No666

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No, this is with another company.
I'm confused. Which other company if Moshiri has converted all the other loans to one giant loan to himself?
Being objective, Moshiri providing the debt/loans, which is treated as equity,
As I understand it, it's no longer treated as equity. He's now getting interest. Anyone?

Online Peabee

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It will help them better than if the loans were from a 3rd party, but they are still loans and they will still be taken into account by any lenders - especially given they also have other charges against various revenue streams.

He would guarantee that he won’t seek repayment until X and they take preference over him? It’s in equity at the moment, so they’re actually in the black.
“We aren't walking through the storm now - we are the storm.“ Zlen, 30/12/18