Author Topic: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP  (Read 38463 times)

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #360 on: March 16, 2019, 01:57:29 PM »
The fake barcodes scanned. The only difference was the hologram colour.  Someone was selling loads at the boss night event
cheers, must have been a relatively easy barcode to crack, so reckon this is one person/group who got hold of one legitimately and produced a load in one go, the locations of those seats would be interesting, as in at they all together, all one block etc

Oh, and don’t feed the touts guys, legit fans lose out and it will just make draconian measures more likely

Offline Alf

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #361 on: March 16, 2019, 03:01:44 PM »
Out of interest why don't you want the club having pictures of you?
If you have a driving licence or passport those pictures are stored.

It wasn't that long ago that the club were telling members to change their passwords because of a data security breach.

Offline davidsteventon

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #362 on: March 16, 2019, 05:43:37 PM »
It was a 2D QR code on the ticket.

I'm not too up on the vulnerabilities within that but at a basic level if you copy it, it will work, and allow the first person in.

So if your mates got a ticket and you take a picture, it works.

If you scour Twitter/Instagram you can copy one. To monetise that - then forge the ticket, change seat details (to look legit) but not even both to change the QR code because nobody would compare - they'd only compare the seat details when buying. And sell as many as you can at a big event. (Boss event).

I'd imagine this is fairly low level. Perhaps even an LFC fan, or perhaps a local Bayern fan doing it for every event.

I don't know if you can decode and regenerate. I think it's a bit more secure than that? Otherwise you'd have millions attending concerts/events. So I'd imagine it's just the basic copy/paste.

However multiple people on Twitter saying they had issues on their own ticket. I'd ask them - did they post the picture anywhere at any point? If not it points to someone more sophisticated (which I doubt), or points back to the source point where you can take a copy of the code - i.e ticket office, handling etc.

Just guessing like. Surprised it doesn't happen a lot more for QR based turnstiles. How many people do we know of who said they were the original holder that had issues? I noticed on twitter around 2 people? Did these post photos? Or was it a lot more people?

Thankfully 2 things. That stadium is so big it's thankfully not dangerous to have a few more in. It sounds like everyone got in after explanations. In other cities it would have been a big issue.


Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #363 on: March 16, 2019, 05:46:42 PM »
It was a 2D QR code on the ticket.

I'm not too up on the vulnerabilities within that but at a basic level if you copy it, it will work, and allow the first person in.

So if your mates got a ticket and you take a picture, it works.

If you scour Twitter/Instagram you can copy one. To monetise that - then forge the ticket, change seat details (to look legit) but not even both to change the QR code because nobody would compare - they'd only compare the seat details when buying. And sell as many as you can at a big event. (Boss event).

I'd imagine this is fairly low level. Perhaps even an LFC fan, or perhaps a local Bayern fan doing it for every event.

I don't know if you can decode and regenerate. I think it's a bit more secure than that? Otherwise you'd have millions attending concerts/events. So I'd imagine it's just the basic copy/paste.

However multiple people on Twitter saying they had issues on their own ticket. I'd ask them - did they post the picture anywhere at any point? If not it points to someone more sophisticated (which I doubt), or points back to the source point where you can take a copy of the code - i.e ticket office, handling etc.

Just guessing like. Surprised it doesn't happen a lot more for QR based turnstiles. How many people do we know of who said they were the original holder that had issues? I noticed on twitter around 2 people? Did these post photos? Or was it a lot more people?

Thankfully 2 things. That stadium is so big it's thankfully not dangerous to have a few more in. It sounds like everyone got in after explanations. In other cities it would have been a big issue.



Heard about 7 ppl. Nobody had pictures . But somone was selling them fakes  at boss night. Ppl may have got in but they come back to letters from lfc in regards to this. Cos ppl kicked off n lfc stewards took seat details

Offline davidsteventon

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #364 on: March 16, 2019, 06:00:13 PM »
7+ is interesting then.

You'd imagine the club would ask Bayern to detail the security of their QR codes - i.e are they aware of cases of decrypting/generating a new one. If so it's problem that LFC can't do anything about and one for Bayern to address. It's probably less likely to be this because it would have happened a lot previously?

If not the above, then the club need to look closer to home and consider the chain.

This sort of one annoys me because innocent people can be caught up in it - normally if someone wants to make a fake/buy a fake it doesn't impact genuine buyers - but this does so it's not victimless.

Someone has made a good amount on these. Most games you attend has a barcode so don't know why it's spiked for this event.

Online Craig S

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #365 on: March 16, 2019, 08:14:10 PM »
The QR code just contains the long id that is above the hologram.

Within that ID, I can see my block, row and seat. Possibly with a match id and some other numbers.

With enough tickets to check, you could potentially reverse engineer it, to spoof someone else's. Really need encrypting with a hash by Bayern before creating the QR.

Offline davidsteventon

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #366 on: March 17, 2019, 10:00:31 AM »
Yeah it gives the block, row, seat and other info and you're right, the code decrypted is actually just printed above the hologram.

I'd be surprised if it follows any sort of pattern.

Maybe this is confusion of 2 things - loads of fakes (that didn't work) and loads of tickets that had a computer error, not actually someone had go in with a fake copy of theirs? (Apart from the letters don't make sense - but then nobody has posted a copy of these letters yet - and how did they arrive so soon?).

Does anyone know anybody that got in with the fakes?

Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #367 on: March 17, 2019, 10:05:04 AM »
Yeah it gives the block, row, seat and other info and you're right, the code decrypted is actually just printed above the hologram.

I'd be surprised if it follows any sort of pattern.

Maybe this is confusion of 2 things - loads of fakes (that didn't work) and loads of tickets that had a computer error, not actually someone had go in with a fake copy of theirs? (Apart from the letters don't make sense - but then nobody has posted a copy of these letters yet - and how did they arrive so soon?).

Does anyone know anybody that got in with the fakes?


Letters always arrive soon, itís way the club do it.  Iíve seen a copy itís said the ticket holders ticket was sold online

Offline Alf

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #368 on: March 18, 2019, 02:00:06 AM »
The technology behind QR codes won't be that difficult to crack. It's one of the pitfalls of automation where you put your ticket under a bar code reader scanner rather than giving it to someone behind a turnstile.

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #369 on: April 1, 2019, 08:41:34 AM »
The seats by me yesterday were sold to 2 Americans who had paid £350 EACH for them! That is the highest we know of so far but I can see it being topped if our form continues.

And of course they just took photos of goals and corners, didn't sing (despite them speaking English) and videoed us trying to support our team :no

Sort of makes me wish are crap at times! Sort of ;)
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Offline PaulKS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #370 on: April 1, 2019, 09:54:01 AM »
The seats by me yesterday were sold to 2 Americans who had paid £350 EACH for them! That is the highest we know of so far but I can see it being topped if our form continues.

And of course they just took photos of goals and corners, didn't sing (despite them speaking English) and videoed us trying to support our team :no

Sort of makes me wish are crap at times! Sort of ;)

Email the club with the seat details mate, if you haven't done so already

There's a particular fella who handles them but I cant remember his name and e-mail add at the moment, someone might know in here

Offline CONFIAMOS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #371 on: April 1, 2019, 09:55:40 AM »
Email the club with the seat details mate, if you haven't done so already

There's a particular fella who handles them but I cant remember his name and e-mail add at the moment, someone might know in here

This

Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #372 on: April 1, 2019, 10:07:01 AM »
This
Email the club with the seat details mate, if you haven't done so already

There's a particular fella who handles them but I cant remember his name and e-mail add at the moment, someone might know in here

Yes mike Yorke. Unless they have evidence from the ticket purchaser they wonít do shit

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #373 on: April 1, 2019, 10:31:08 AM »
That is a hard one to square away for me.

Why grass them up to the club?

Ok you may find out who eventually sold on that ticket for £350 (if thats the price they paid. Could be those Americans bragging and joking. They may have got them from a reputable foreign tour scheme)

If those fans were scousers that didn't have their phones out and sung like most, would you think to let the club know? Even if the club were to investigate, you would be basing the evidence over the bragging of 2 American fans.

Why should we be the ones policing touting inside the stadium?

Offline CONFIAMOS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #374 on: April 1, 2019, 10:59:10 AM »
That is a hard one to square away for me.

Why grass them up to the club?

Ok you may find out who eventually sold on that ticket for £350 (if thats the price they paid. Could be those Americans bragging and joking. They may have got them from a reputable foreign tour scheme)

If those fans were scousers that didn't have their phones out and sung like most, would you think to let the club know? Even if the club were to investigate, you would be basing the evidence over the bragging of 2 American fans.

Why should we be the ones policing touting inside the stadium?

I'm not arsed to be honest.  Kidding yourself if you think they paid face value. And what is a reputable foreign tour scheme ffs.

If they were 2 scousers without their phones out then obviously they wouldn't be outing themselves as massive wool whoppers and there wouldn't be an issue as they most likely hadn't paid 350 a ticket. Imo every little helps in getting these people out of seats that should be for those more deserving - oh and whoever the tout is needs ending.

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #375 on: April 1, 2019, 11:13:50 AM »
I'm not arsed to be honest.  Kidding yourself if you think they paid face value. And what is a reputable foreign tour scheme ffs.

If they were 2 scousers without their phones out then obviously they wouldn't be outing themselves as massive wool whoppers and there wouldn't be an issue as they most likely hadn't paid 350 a ticket. Imo every little helps in getting these people out of seats that should be for those more deserving - oh and whoever the tout is needs ending.

https://www.thomascooksport.com/Football/Premier-League/Liverpool-FC

Why should anyone inside the ground judge anyone else just because of where they are from and how they act?

So what if they had their phones out and didn't sing. They are part of the experience. Every game is someones 1st game to someone. They learn or they take the experience for what it is.

I've said it before. I would rather 5% of the seats inside the ground that are touted than creating an atmosphere where fans are shopping others to the club and get to a point where innocent fans get punished or dragged through the mud.

Offline CONFIAMOS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #376 on: April 1, 2019, 11:35:58 AM »
Listen mate, I'm going off the fact they had paid £350 a ticket. That's touting and I'd happily grass to get those cards cancelled.

It doesn't get the yanks in question into trouble does it, and they still get their day out at the soccer.

Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #377 on: April 1, 2019, 11:40:12 AM »
Listen mate, I'm going off the fact they had paid £350 a ticket. That's touting and I'd happily grass to get those cards cancelled.

It doesn't get the yanks in question into trouble does it, and they still get their day out at the soccer.

The problem is the club wonít do anything, they would want to see concrete evidence screenshots or otherwise as currently itís just someoneís word

Offline CONFIAMOS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #378 on: April 1, 2019, 11:42:13 AM »
The problem is the club won’t do anything, they would want to see concrete evidence screenshots or otherwise as currently it’s just someone’s word

I don't doubt that mate but still worth mentioning in my opinion.

When lads who've passed their tickets to a  mate or a kid one week as they can't make  it are getting pulled, it's frustrating knowing touts are getting with all this.

Offline Momos_righteye

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #379 on: April 1, 2019, 12:27:35 PM »
I don't doubt that mate but still worth mentioning in my opinion.

When lads who've passed their tickets to a  mate or a kid one week as they can't make  it are getting pulled, it's frustrating knowing touts are getting with all this.

I agree with this, feels like they are taking no context of the issue. Plus from the clubs own point of view if they crack down on touts, they would be more likely to get more people paying through the nose via the hospitality.

Offline courty61

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #380 on: April 1, 2019, 12:39:11 PM »
Touts are scum. But fuck me - £350 each?!?! You can see what is also a problem here
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Offline RedPat

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #381 on: April 1, 2019, 12:56:14 PM »
Touts are scum. But fuck me - £350 each?!?! You can see what is also a problem here
Can you imagine what the touts will get for Wolves if we need to win to win the league.
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Offline courty61

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #382 on: April 1, 2019, 01:25:03 PM »
Yep.

And you can see why people do it to a certain extent.

The people buying at stupid prices will be the 1st to moan when they get get scammed too. Moaning about availability etc
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Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #383 on: April 1, 2019, 01:34:38 PM »
A tout offered me a pair of Carlsberg dugout hospitality which isnít even that good. For 5k the pair. Thatís the price for the half the season for both

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #384 on: April 1, 2019, 01:47:02 PM »
£3-5k i've been hearing for the Wolves game and thats right now not knowing if that game will mean anything.

If that game means something then it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see that value double for some.

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #385 on: April 1, 2019, 01:57:56 PM »
I have been emailing Mike each time we have found out where the people in those seats are from and how much they paid. They are ST seats, and I don't care what anyone says, selling them on for such inflated prices is WRONG IMO, and it has been going on for years. My issue was that the club didn't seem to be doing anything but I got a reply first thing today and have new hope so we'll see.

The problem is the club won’t do anything, they would want to see concrete evidence screenshots or otherwise as currently it’s just someone’s word

We'll see. Surely asking the people who got the tickets for ID and how much they paid is a start. They clearly haven't been told to stay schtum. (They weren't brash Americans btw, but someone in my row has been asking people sitting there if their English is good enough.) The fact the STH himself hasn't been there for years now.... Think of how much they have made out of fans. Pisses me off.
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Offline CONFIAMOS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #386 on: April 1, 2019, 02:08:09 PM »
Fair play mate. Clearly someone taking the absolute piss and making enough money over 2 games to pay for the STs outright

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #387 on: April 1, 2019, 02:16:04 PM »
I have been emailing Mike each time we have found out where the people in those seats are from and how much they paid. They are ST seats, and I don't care what anyone says, selling them on for such inflated prices is WRONG IMO, and it has been going on for years. My issue was that the club didn't seem to be doing anything but I got a reply first thing today and have new hope so we'll see.

We'll see. Surely asking the people who got the tickets for ID and how much they paid is a start. They clearly haven't been told to stay schtum. (They weren't brash Americans btw, but someone in my row has been asking people sitting there if their English is good enough.) The fact the STH himself hasn't been there for years now.... Think of how much they have made out of fans. Pisses me off.

Yep so it's a two fold problem. 1) The touting of the tickets for obscene amounts 2) the removal of the option for that season ticket to be passed to someone on the waiting list if the owner of it clearly has no interest in attending anymore.

Well done on reporting it. At some point we will need to have a look at the way in which the credits system is open to abuse but it's nowhere near as big a problem as tickets going for vast sums to the highest bidder. If we cut out a lot of the touting, we'd have more in circulation for home games and away games I believe.
« Last Edit: April 1, 2019, 02:17:50 PM by Hij »
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Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #388 on: April 1, 2019, 03:08:48 PM »
I have been emailing Mike each time we have found out where the people in those seats are from and how much they paid. They are ST seats, and I don't care what anyone says, selling them on for such inflated prices is WRONG IMO, and it has been going on for years. My issue was that the club didn't seem to be doing anything but I got a reply first thing today and have new hope so we'll see.

We'll see. Surely asking the people who got the tickets for ID and how much they paid is a start. They clearly haven't been told to stay schtum. (They weren't brash Americans btw, but someone in my row has been asking people sitting there if their English is good enough.) The fact the STH himself hasn't been there for years now.... Think of how much they have made out of fans. Pisses me off.


What did he say ?

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #389 on: April 1, 2019, 08:42:11 PM »
Basically to leave it with him and he'll look into those soon, "personally". Hoping they start doing ID checks on any STH who doesn't know where there seat is, though I accept it could be a mate if the STH can't go. But I reckon most of the time you could tell  :-\

Maybe a main in a suit will be there and check IDs - I'd better take some!! :D
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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #390 on: April 1, 2019, 08:46:16 PM »
Yep so it's a two fold problem. 1) The touting of the tickets for obscene amounts 2) the removal of the option for that season ticket to be passed to someone on the waiting list if the owner of it clearly has no interest in attending anymore.

Well done on reporting it. At some point we will need to have a look at the way in which the credits system is open to abuse but it's nowhere near as big a problem as tickets going for vast sums to the highest bidder. If we cut out a lot of the touting, we'd have more in circulation for home games and away games I believe.

Thanks. Hadn't thought about 2 recently but you're right. Like everyone I have mates who haven't been able to get many tickets at all this season, despite having gone to over half the League games and all cup games for years, and then I am faced with tourists with loads of money. It grates.

Hoping they start with 1 but not saying it is easy. Although ID checks and inquiries might be a start. Though also hope of the STH comes back I don't get attacked! I'll practise my poker face
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Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #391 on: April 1, 2019, 09:41:49 PM »
Basically to leave it with him and he'll look into those soon, "personally". Hoping they start doing ID checks on any STH who doesn't know where there seat is, though I accept it could be a mate if the STH can't go. But I reckon most of the time you could tell  :-\

Maybe a main in a suit will be there and check IDs - I'd better take some!! :D

Nah I doubt you could tell, still think there will be a load of STs who arenít local and will give the ST to a friend colleague etc. Especially if any of the supporters clubs own ST. A lot of foreign fans will be part of their supporters club and attend games for the sake of saying theyíve watched Liverpool live. I know of a few ST holders in the gulf region.  Yes Mike will look into it but not much will happen unless itís linked to the group of touts heís well aware off.

Offline Fazak_Red

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #392 on: April 1, 2019, 09:49:43 PM »
£3-5k i've been hearing for the Wolves game and thats right now not knowing if that game will mean anything.

If that game means something then it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see that value double for some.

Anyone wants mine for these prices they can have them. ;)

Offline PaulKS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #393 on: April 1, 2019, 09:56:49 PM »
Anyone else noticed the well known touts opening up small food establishments etc. in Liverpool?

Gives you an idea of the amount of cash they rake in, if they need to launder it somehow

Dont worry about "grassing" - fuck them

Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #394 on: April 1, 2019, 10:07:57 PM »
Anyone else noticed the well known touts opening up small food establishments etc. in Liverpool?

Gives you an idea of the amount of cash they rake in, if they need to launder it somehow

Dont worry about "grassing" - fuck them

Yes I know exactly what and who your talking about. They have a B and B on top off the Chinese also

Offline JakeWS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #395 on: April 2, 2019, 09:52:22 AM »
A proper sticky wicket that will catch the club out if theyíre not careful!

Be much better if they stopped playing at this and got properly serious about it. Itís all been said before but Iím bored so:

1) reduce 14 day return for members to same day- fine when paper tickets but no reason canít use same system as STH nowadays
2) card holder pic on members card
3) three nominated card holders who can use your card for season
4) sort the touted seasies out
5) sort the holding 100 season tickets out

Then weíll be a lot closer to a fairer system.

Rant done

How they should do it is there are 2 cards, one is the "Ticket" and one is the "Membership". You scan the Ticket to let you in, then scan the Membership to link it to say who used the ticket. So then nobody could build credits without actually going to the match, tickets could be passed on, however it would be easy to see how often and who to.

Offline GDGLEWIS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #396 on: April 2, 2019, 10:33:46 AM »
Or they could go hitech and scrap plastic fan cards for most, and move it to a mobile app such as used to enter some concerts now. With you having the choice if you wish to retain a plastic fan card it must have your photo on or entrance is by way of the payment card only. RFID technology is easily hacked nowadays so a ticket with a mobile app maybe the way forward.

Offline CONFIAMOS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #397 on: April 2, 2019, 10:35:53 AM »
Anyone else noticed the well known touts opening up small food establishments etc. in Liverpool?

Gives you an idea of the amount of cash they rake in, if they need to launder it somehow

Dont worry about "grassing" - fuck them

Any further info on this? PM if necessary

Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #398 on: April 2, 2019, 11:37:22 AM »
Any further info on this? PM if necessary

I and the club both know about this. Itís been going on since last season. The police are watching also
« Last Edit: April 2, 2019, 11:44:44 AM by daindan »

Offline PaulKS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #399 on: April 2, 2019, 12:41:38 PM »
Any further info on this? PM if necessary

Not really mate, I don't want to name check on here as I am sure the people of importance are aware of it and also I am just taking an educated guess that this is what is going on. The people doing it are not exactly business-savvy, and are absolute morons, so it is obvious in my opinion

There are 2 I know of and I still see them at away games so the club musn't have got them yet, but they are 100% massive touts and so happened to have opened up small businesses.

I and the club both know about this. Itís been going on since last season. The police are watching also

Good to hear