Author Topic: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP  (Read 36868 times)

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #320 on: March 1, 2019, 01:56:53 PM »
Re do the maths - £20k a match assuming £40 profit on each :o
and of course they’ve probably got their ‘loyal’ customers who will do the crap games to help them get their loyalty up, so include european games (probably a higher margin there, especially the likes of city/Roma/PSG/Napoli/Bayern the last few years), so looking at at least £500k for last year and probably well over £1m for this year combined with last

Wonder when the guy got caught if all those tickets were in those little leather wallets with the card and the seat number you see loads of people use

Most of them would buy for 100 and sell for 120 to make a quick profit.   It would be interesting to know if the cards were real or fake also
for the likes of Watford yeah, wolves would be more difficult

Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #321 on: March 1, 2019, 02:01:46 PM »
and of course they’ve probably got their ‘loyal’ customers who will do the crap games to help them get their loyalty up, so include european games (probably a higher margin there, especially the likes of city/Roma/PSG/Napoli/Bayern the last few years), so looking at at least £500k for last year and probably well over £1m for this year combined with last

Wonder when the guy got caught if all those tickets were in those little leather wallets with the card and the seat number you see loads of people use
for the likes of Watford yeah, wolves would be more difficult

It doesn’t help when players brothers are touting as are ex managers also. But generally speaking it’s 100 quid profit they make and each ticket has been passed 6/7 times over

Offline CONFIAMOS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #322 on: March 1, 2019, 02:13:39 PM »
It doesn’t help when players brothers are touting as are ex managers also. But generally speaking it’s 100 quid profit they make and each ticket has been passed 6/7 times over
Who? Proof?

Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #323 on: March 1, 2019, 02:16:37 PM »
Who? Proof?

Have been told this by contacts who work at the club also regarding the players brother. I got a ticket off the player for an away game which I paid stupid money for about 3 seasons ago

Offline CONFIAMOS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #324 on: March 1, 2019, 02:39:57 PM »
Have been told this by contacts who work at the club also regarding the players brother. I got a ticket off the player for an away game which I paid stupid money for about 3 seasons ago

All great but again, who? Which player? Manager?

Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #325 on: March 1, 2019, 02:48:52 PM »
All great but again, who? Which player? Manager?

Cannot mention the manager in case the guy gets in trouble but it’s been mentioned elsewhere. Players Allocation tickets I’ve seen touted Moreno, ox, sturridge

Offline Giovanni

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #326 on: March 1, 2019, 03:01:58 PM »
dont moan about empty seats then
The club know how many seats are empty every game, and are looking at ways to fix this problem.

How do you propose the club manage the guaranteed sales, when two people are getting credits for the same ticket. The idea of selling your ticket back and keeping the credit is 100% unworkable.
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Offline Priest078

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #327 on: March 1, 2019, 07:04:29 PM »
Just joined a LFC ticket site on FB just to nosey , massive touting operations going on.
The people that buy them make me feel sick.

Offline nickyd186

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #328 on: March 1, 2019, 08:18:09 PM »
So according to the senior solicitor you can "legitimately passing tickets on to friends and family."
I thought the club have told people that have been suspended that according to the terms and conditions of purchasing tickets this is forbidden?
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Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #329 on: March 1, 2019, 08:24:47 PM »
So according to the senior solicitor you can "legitimately passing tickets on to friends and family."
I thought the club have told people that have been suspended that according to the terms and conditions of purchasing tickets this is forbidden?

I’ve been on a conference call with him, scary bloke him.  I think they have changed there stance somewhat

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #330 on: March 1, 2019, 09:04:42 PM »
Well the 'It's important to stress that in not one single case has a sanction been issued for someone innocently passing tickets on' caught my eye

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #331 on: March 1, 2019, 09:26:07 PM »
Well the 'It's important to stress that in not one single case has a sanction been issued for someone innocently passing tickets on' caught my eye
I thought the same! ::)
« Last Edit: March 1, 2019, 09:27:58 PM by Shanklygates »
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Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #332 on: March 2, 2019, 06:07:14 AM »
Well the 'It's important to stress that in not one single case has a sanction been issued for someone innocently passing tickets on' caught my eye
its what they class as “innocent”

Offline AR48

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #333 on: March 2, 2019, 09:33:46 AM »
500 envelopes with members cards in. Wow, I find it hard work sorting a couple of my mates never mind 500.

500 cards!? So one guy could potentially be selling over 1% of each home game. Crazy.

Online scouser102002

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #334 on: March 4, 2019, 11:05:40 AM »
your title is noted on the card ie : Mr, Mrs or Miss so they would be checking gender in a first instance !

My member card doesn't have 'Mr' on

Also didn't have mine checked in the way in against Watford and I was in an hour before kick off

Offline ant

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #335 on: March 5, 2019, 10:37:03 AM »
My member card doesn't have 'Mr' on
you must have an older membership cos its obligatory since you have to fill in a form on the lfc web site, see pic, ive changed my original post - ynwa
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Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #336 on: March 5, 2019, 10:54:14 AM »
A proper sticky wicket that will catch the club out if they’re not careful!

Be much better if they stopped playing at this and got properly serious about it. It’s all been said before but I’m bored so:

1) reduce 14 day return for members to same day- fine when paper tickets but no reason can’t use same system as STH nowadays
2) card holder pic on members card
3) three nominated card holders who can use your card for season
4) sort the touted seasies out
5) sort the holding 100 season tickets out

Then we’ll be a lot closer to a fairer system.

Rant done

Please can we not suggest this, ever? It's just asking for trouble.

Yes you can have the old rhetoric "you won't mind if you're doing nothing wrong" but it's nevertheless not going to be popular. I for one don't want the club holding pictures of me.

What next? Facial recognition? They've started introducing those cameras in London. No thank you.

The club need to fight the main battle (against touts) first and by the sounds of things, that is incredibly sizeable and an actually illegal operation, unlike sharing member cards between mates or whatever people may do.

-----

Also, the more member card checks or whatever the more profiling will be occurring. I frequent 13+ games a season but I'm an Asian OOT - I don't want a bunch of "random" checks for any of the sizeable BAME individuals coming to games, many of which aren't paying tout prices or whatever.
« Last Edit: March 5, 2019, 10:59:23 AM by RainbowFlick »
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Offline apassant77

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #337 on: March 5, 2019, 11:01:03 AM »
Out of interest why don't you want the club having pictures of you?
If you have a driving licence or passport those pictures are stored.

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #338 on: March 5, 2019, 11:01:54 AM »
Please can we not suggest this, ever? It's just asking for trouble.

Yes you can have the old rhetoric "you won't mind if you're doing nothing wrong" but it's nevertheless not going to be popular. I for one don't want the club holding pictures of me.

What next? Facial recognition? They've started introducing those cameras in London. No thank you.

The club need to fight the main battle (against touts) first and by the sounds of things, that is incredibly sizeable and an actually illegal operation, unlike sharing member cards between mates or whatever people may do.

have to agree to disagree on this

If objecting to the picture i assume you dont have, facebook, driving license, passport, student ID card etc etc?

One thing worth noting is there would be no need for the club to store the picture. simply one time use to print on the card. it should be there for spot checks in the ground not for using anywhere else. certainly not advocating facial recognition etc

anyway, not likely to happen from what i understand given the supporters forum objected to it

Offline Barrowred

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #339 on: March 5, 2019, 11:19:57 AM »
Please can we not suggest this, ever? It's just asking for trouble.

Yes you can have the old rhetoric "you won't mind if you're doing nothing wrong" but it's nevertheless not going to be popular. I for one don't want the club holding pictures of me.

What next? Facial recognition? They've started introducing those cameras in London. No thank you.

The club need to fight the main battle (against touts) first and by the sounds of things, that is incredibly sizeable and an actually illegal operation, unlike sharing member cards between mates or whatever people may do.


-----

Also, the more member card checks or whatever the more profiling will be occurring. I frequent 13+ games a season but I'm an Asian OOT - I don't want a bunch of "random" checks for any of the sizeable BAME individuals coming to games, many of which aren't paying tout prices or whatever.

The bit in bold is the main issue as said above. If they ever do address this and there are still problems then look at further measures. Pictures on cards will still cause issues with people who have passed on to friends and family if checked, which is something the club have said they don't have problems with (albeit with no details as of yet)
« Last Edit: March 5, 2019, 11:22:34 AM by Barrowred »

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #340 on: March 5, 2019, 11:29:45 AM »
Out of interest why don't you want the club having pictures of you?
If you have a driving licence or passport those pictures are stored.

A private corporation should never hold that kind of personal data of their 'customers'. Regardless if it's a 1 time use. Comes back to the post Hillsborough idea of all football fans having ID cards to stamp out criminality. Guilty until proven innocent

But the biggest reason is very simple. The club allows passing on tickets/ST etc to friends/family as long as you are not doing so for profit. Do you have 2/3/4 photos on a card? Should someone be pulled in every single match because his/her face doesn't match the one on the card because the card belongs to a mate that cant afford his season ticket that season.

It's a very difficult situation the club is in (and has been in for a very long time). You can either be a family club that allows everyone in (and leaves the club open to touting) or you can be the police state that has a strict policy of knowing exactly who is in every single seat in the ground (no touts but punishes 'regular' fans going to the game).

At the very least the club finally has clearer policies on policing ticketing issues with a clearer appeal process (though the club should be doing more). The club needs to have an innocent until proven guilty policy.

This may be an unpopular opinion but I would rather have 5% of the ground filled with touted tickets for every game than have even 1 single innocent fan having to go through the process of having to prove that he/she belongs in their seat or worse having a fan innocently losing their ST or fan card because they couldn't get to a game and passed it onto a mate.

Offline Alf

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #341 on: March 5, 2019, 11:30:56 AM »
My member card doesn't have 'Mr' on

Also didn't have mine checked in the way in against Watford and I was in an hour before kick off

When we were going in 15 minutes before kick off last week. The announcement is made over the tannoy that you maybe searched and suddenly the stewards start making half arsed attempts to search people.

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #342 on: March 5, 2019, 11:40:28 AM »
have to agree to disagree on this

If objecting to the picture i assume you dont have, facebook, driving license, passport, student ID card etc etc?

One thing worth noting is there would be no need for the club to store the picture. simply one time use to print on the card. it should be there for spot checks in the ground not for using anywhere else. certainly not advocating facial recognition etc

anyway, not likely to happen from what i understand given the supporters forum objected to it
difference is you can’t pass on those aforementioned products onto a friend legitimately whereas you can pass on a ticket on a members card legitimately, and of course there is the police state element of it that no private company should be doing, on the plus side they do seem to be going after the big touts now so this should be less of an issue

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #343 on: March 5, 2019, 11:41:00 AM »
When we were going in 15 minutes before kick off last week. The announcement is made over the tannoy that you maybe searched and suddenly the stewards start making half arsed attempts to search people.
as in the regular patting you down?

Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #344 on: March 5, 2019, 11:44:28 AM »
Out of interest why don't you want the club having pictures of you?
If you have a driving licence or passport those pictures are stored.

Those are stored by Government bodies and are "necessary", not a football club. It doesn't sit right with me and if you knew me you'd know I wouldn't hurt a fly! lol.

Perhaps I'm just too far on the liberal scale.
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Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #345 on: March 5, 2019, 11:47:47 AM »
have to agree to disagree on this

If objecting to the picture i assume you dont have, facebook, driving license, passport, student ID card etc etc?

One thing worth noting is there would be no need for the club to store the picture. simply one time use to print on the card. it should be there for spot checks in the ground not for using anywhere else. certainly not advocating facial recognition etc

anyway, not likely to happen from what i understand given the supporters forum objected to it

Fair, I get your point totally. It's a generally socialist city with a predominantly left-wing fanbase. I'd be surprised if many were keen on this. Only Facebook of those you mentioned is truly not needed.

My concern is probably more with a case of misidentifying someone I guess. Secretly don't want it easier to give someone a lifetime ban for a bit of pyro (shhh!)  ;D
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Online dudleyred

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #346 on: March 5, 2019, 12:01:09 PM »
The bit in bold is the main issue as said above. If they ever do address this and there are still problems then look at further measures. Pictures on cards will still cause issues with people who have passed on to friends and family if checked, which is something the club have said they don't have problems with (albeit with no details as of yet)

yep agree the touting is priority. in terms of friends and family i made the point that you could have two other photos on your card - your ususal go too people you pass tickets to. In addition to that the club need to provide a portal whereby you can send it back to the club like STH's bang up to kick off or transfer the ticket to another members card (sorting payment through the club to stop touts) and the ticket holding card thats activated gets the credit.

Fair, I get your point totally. It's a generally socialist city with a predominantly left-wing fanbase. I'd be surprised if many were keen on this. Only Facebook of those you mentioned is truly not needed.

My concern is probably more with a case of misidentifying someone I guess. Secretly don't want it easier to give someone a lifetime ban for a bit of pyro (shhh!)  ;D

yes totally get where you're coming from. its a tricky position but every year we all moan about lack of ticket availability, touting, credit hunting etc etc. Something radical needs to change to get it sorted.

I've always thought part of the premier league conditions should be you all have the same ticket system to be honest. Remove paper tickets totally which immediately makes things tougher to tout and activate the cards like we do for home games. Again wont be popular with those people who get away spares but it cant carry on as it is

anyway thats my two pennys worth!!!

Offline PaulKS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #347 on: March 5, 2019, 12:13:10 PM »
500 envelopes with members cards in. Wow, I find it hard work sorting a couple of my mates never mind 500.

Unbelievable, the problem is clearly worse than we thought.

The more shit like this that gets caught and dealt with the better. Will probably start to see away credits drop etc

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #348 on: March 5, 2019, 12:21:33 PM »
The big issue with photos on member cards is that it stops genuine fans using things like supporters clubs etc. Also I don't really get the "nominate 3 people to use your card" what if no one can use the card? Members need to be able to return tickets up until kickoff, if your card isn't scanned you lose the credit. Sort out the local general sale too and people hunting away credits, there are bigger problems than friends sharing membership cards.

Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #349 on: March 5, 2019, 12:31:33 PM »
I think the photo on card idea is a good idea. Majority of touts have hundreds of cards in RANDOM MADE UP NAMES all registered to the same address, by asking for photos on cards that majority of your tout held members cards gone. Majority of the big credit cards will be owned by touts.  From a hospo perspective the club know of of touts in my lounge who own 68 hospitality tickets for Liverpool alone but the club still havnt shut them down even though there website is actively selling for huge money.
« Last Edit: March 5, 2019, 12:35:07 PM by daindan »

Online TeddyTime33

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #350 on: March 5, 2019, 12:39:43 PM »
I think the photo on card idea is a good idea. Majority of touts have hundreds of cards in RANDOM MADE UP NAMES all registered to the same address, by asking for photos on cards that majority of your tout held members cards gone.
There are ways to verify if people exist, live at the right address etc. It is pretty straight forward. Maybe make people verify their accounts at the start of the season. There are hundreds of fans who get their tickets on members cards that aren't their own for face value, they aren't doing anything wrong but will be punished

Offline CONFIAMOS

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #351 on: March 5, 2019, 01:01:22 PM »
Photo cards are not the answer.

Thatcher wanted to bring these in in '88 - another stamp on the criminalisation of football supporters. They were thrown out in the wake of Hillsborough. Context here: http://www.fsf.org.uk/blog/view/the-birth-of-the-fsa-part-2

Aside from that, they are too rigid in a time that we are trying to come up with progressive solutions. If I can't go to game one week for whatever reason (probably out of my own control e.g. abundance of date/KO time changes for TV etc.), I should be able to send family/friends/kids without worrying about photo ID.

More recently Cardiff have tried this and it didn't work. There are far better avenues to explore than this and to be honest I can't see this ever being seriously considered by the club in it's entirety.

Offline Alf

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #352 on: March 5, 2019, 01:43:42 PM »
as in the regular patting you down?

Yes nobody was being searched and then everybody was.

Offline J_Kopite

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #353 on: March 5, 2019, 01:45:21 PM »
Don't give a shit if the Club have my picture - loads of other things have and its not like we're not constantly watched by CCTV at the match and around the ground anyway. It'd sort touting too.
« Last Edit: March 5, 2019, 01:46:52 PM by J_Kopite »
My mate asked me if i wanted a ticket "they are fake like" he says, stupid twat

Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #354 on: March 5, 2019, 01:45:46 PM »
There are ways to verify if people exist, live at the right address etc. It is pretty straight forward. Maybe make people verify their accounts at the start of the season. There are hundreds of fans who get their tickets on members cards that aren't their own for face value, they aren't doing anything wrong but will be punished

This is part of the problem, say somone has 10/15 members cards, all in family members names I.e real identities , they then pass all 15 cards at face vslue to keep their credits up, that in the eyes of the club is wrong

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #355 on: March 5, 2019, 02:14:47 PM »
This is part of the problem, say somone has 10/15 members cards, all in family members names I.e real identities , they then pass all 15 cards at face vslue to keep their credits up, that in the eyes of the club is wrong
The problem is no matter what strategy is employed there will be people who are unhappy, I use my own card for most games so that’s fine but my family from NI have used other people’s cards through contacts etc. Why should they be punished? I think the vast majority of fans will have passed on their cards at least once/bought away spares etc. No one will be happy I think we all want touts out and no more empty seats

Offline frag

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #356 on: March 7, 2019, 10:26:22 PM »
“the word ‘transfer’ has been removed because it was ambiguous and we did not want to worry about legitimately passing tickets on to friends and family.”

What exactly does this mean? What counts as legitimately passing tickets on?
There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #357 on: March 16, 2019, 12:56:19 PM »
Been hearing loads are under investigation from Munich away. There tickets were forged and the fakes sold on ticket sites.  They then coulnt get in cos said ticket slready used by the fake

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #358 on: March 16, 2019, 01:20:51 PM »
Been hearing loads are under investigation from Munich away. There tickets were forged and the fakes sold on ticket sites.  They then coulnt get in cos said ticket slready used by the fake
shouldnt be a massive shock that to be honest as loads would have wanted to go, although I reckon it is more likely one or two who’ve used their tickets to make fakes for a whole block than people individually creating a fake, but more concerning the fakes got through (guessing there is a barcode on it which had to be scanned?)

Moral of the story though, get in early. Bit surprised this hasn’t been tried with fancards, hope to god the club members data is impregnable to outsiders as I can definitely see something like this for wolves happening
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 01:22:41 PM by Lush is the best medicine... »

Offline daindan

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #359 on: March 16, 2019, 01:48:20 PM »
shouldnt be a massive shock that to be honest as loads would have wanted to go, although I reckon it is more likely one or two who’ve used their tickets to make fakes for a whole block than people individually creating a fake, but more concerning the fakes got through (guessing there is a barcode on it which had to be scanned?)

Moral of the story though, get in early. Bit surprised this hasn’t been tried with fancards, hope to god the club members data is impregnable to outsiders as I can definitely see something like this for wolves happening

The fake barcodes scanned. The only difference was the hologram colour.  Someone was selling loads at the boss night event