Author Topic: Chasing the Title  (Read 1095635 times)

Offline stevienash

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4520 on: February 4, 2019, 04:22:58 PM »
Win tonight gap is 5 points thats all its about tonight sod the rest

Offline Classycara

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4521 on: February 4, 2019, 04:33:09 PM »
Fucking drama queens act like they don't have a choice in how they behave or how they're feeling.

"Ooooohhhhhh help me, give me attention, I shat myself and now I've pissed myself as well!!! Oooooohhhhh".

Well you know what? It is a fucking choice how you react to things in life, whether you take things in a positive or negative way.

Why anyone would choose to live their life pissing negativity from a great height onto the rest of us is beyond me. Its genuinely nuts and baffling.

Well put. People with tickets need to perform a quick triage on themselves.

1) Am I potentially going to be a miserable c*nt and negatively impact people around me and the team itself?
2) Am I prone to groaning and sighing dramatically like a bellend?
3) Do I tend to resent every one and every thing if the score isn't exactly as hoped 30 minutes in?
4) Am I an utter coward, who hasn't even got the stomach to sing (or at least be passively supportive) for ninety minutes regardless of the score to try to help us get the result we deserve?

If the answer to any of these has even the slightest chance of being yes, do the team a favour and think of a friend who isn't a shithouse and sell them your ticket

Offline Dan6times

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4522 on: February 4, 2019, 04:34:39 PM »
Negative Nelly reporting for duty

Tonight is huge its a must win
“For those of you in the cheap seats I'd like ya to clap your hands to this one; the rest of you can just rattle your jewelry!”

Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4523 on: February 4, 2019, 04:36:06 PM »
At least two points clear at the top with 25 games gone. I can enjoy it no matter what, maybe because I wasn't expecting it. At the start of the season I wanted us to get 12 points more than last season, evolution not revolution, incremental steps, etc. But I did not imagine that would be enough to challenge. So with both those expectations blown away (more than likely) it's a great, positive season.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4524 on: February 4, 2019, 04:36:50 PM »
At least two points clear at the top with 25 games gone. I can enjoy it no matter what, maybe because I wasn't expecting it. At the start of the season I wanted us to get 12 points more than last season, evolution not revolution, incremental steps, etc. But I did not imagine that would be enough to challenge. So with both those expectations blown away (more than likely) it's a great, positive season.

It's how I feel as well

Offline Korbflechter

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4525 on: February 4, 2019, 04:39:23 PM »
Okay, maybe to give the whole atmosphere-around-the-club-thing a little perspective: I'm a lifelong Dortmund supporter, having been raised in the city and never thought about supporting any other German club. My dad always had a soft spot for Liverpool, I guess due to the Kop being the cradle of today's way of supporting your team with chants and banners and all that. And probably also the glamour around the teams of the 70s and 80s. So he passed his passion on to me.
Whenever I had seen some Premier League highlights (which were way less common to get to see in Germany in the early 00s of course) of, say, Bergkamp or van Nistelrooy or what have you and was excited about it, he would always go: "Well not bad, sounds pretty good. But who the hell likes ManU/Arsenal? Those are strange clubs". I didn't stand a chance to be fair. If Dad says so, it's probably right. So all the other German kids interested in international football fancied Arsenal's one-touch invincibles. And then there was me, not getting it. Like "really? Arsenal? How?"
Of course accessibility has grown and these days I barely miss a game. Considering broadcasting rights in the UK I probably have better access to live games than most english native supporters ;D Well, that's the short short version of how I ended up on this site. So here's my take on the atmosphere in the ground and around the club in a title challenge.

One can say I can't join the conversation, since I haven't been waiting for a league title for 29 years. And that is actually right, I can't argue with that. I have only started watching EVERY Liverpool game when Klopp took over. Because I was hoping for and kind of anticipating what we are witnessing now. I mean, I had seen it before (the timing of his arrival also coincided with great accessibility of international football in Germany, so that played into it as well). So I am joining the conversation, especially because Dortmund are also challenging again this season. And I follow Liverpool's more closely because I'm more excited about it. But I sense fundamental differences reading on this forum and being in touch with everything going on in Dortmund.
My best example of what "title challenges" feel like in this city is this season's Bayern-game (was too early back then to actually call it a "challenge" I would say). I was at that game and what went on on the terraces was indescribable. Bayern completely dominated that first half and it all looked like the season was back to taking its usual course. Did I really believe at halftime we could turn this game around and make it a proper title challenge? Fuck no! But it didn't matter. Not to anyone in the stadium did that matter. We were willing the team on, if we're going down we're going down the hard way. And boy did the lads come out firing! Quick equalizer and the ground was shaking and bouncing. And then -of course- right when we started believing maybe this could even work out for us, Bayern went ahead again just three minutes later. The entire ground (apart from the away end that is) went dead silent for like five seconds. But only for everyone to then simultaneously get off their seats and shout the team on again. It was just random noise and Come on!s but it did the job. It was clear that no heads were going to drop and every mistake was going to be forgiven, as long as everyone gave it their all until the final whistle goes. At that point, I clearly didn't believe we were going to win. But I still wouldn't transport these emotions to the lads, how is that ever going to help anyone? In Dortmund this is the way we do it. There's never a sentiment of "maybe we're gonna fuck up" in the stadium. I think it used to be the same in Liverpool, I mean come on. It's still where support comes from and it's why my dad loves the club. And therefore, it's why I do, too.
Yes, waiting for a title for almost 30 years is something else compared to having won it three times this millennium. But we had been waiting for 32 years until we won the Bundesliga for the first time in 95. We fell short in heartbreaking fashion in 92, being top like 5 minutes before the end of the season. Still, the fans gathered to celebrate the team like they had won something and chanted "German champions will only be BVB" (hard to translate as it's an uncommon formulation in German as well).
So I understand that I'm an outsider in this conversation and am just so full of hope and joy and not waiting as desperately as you guys are. But what happens on the terraces transfers onto the pitch, you can really trust everyone saying that (especially if it's the captain and manager of this club). People going to the games right now do have a great responsibility. If anyone can get me tickets, I'll be happy to show I'm not just talking the talk (I know it's not happening, but just to point it out). But that's not what this is about, you lads and lasses don't need anyone to show you how to support your team going for a big one. You just need to take a deep breath and put your focus on the right mindset before going to a game. What anyone writes on here, I don't think that has much of an effect on the way things are going.
If City are top before the Bournemouth game, so what? It's not going to have any effect on the outcome of that game. But the way the supporters would respond to that I'm sure would have an impact.

Offline SinceSixtyFive

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4526 on: February 4, 2019, 04:42:55 PM »
Okay, maybe to give the whole atmosphere-around-the-club-thing a little perspective: I'm a lifelong Dortmund supporter, having been raised in the city and never thought about supporting any other German club. My dad always had a soft spot for Liverpool, I guess due to the Kop being the cradle of today's way of supporting your team with chants and banners and all that. And probably also the glamour around the teams of the 70s and 80s. So he passed his passion on to me.
Whenever I had seen some Premier League highlights (which were way less common to get to see in Germany in the early 00s of course) of, say, Bergkamp or van Nistelrooy or what have you and was excited about it, he would always go: "Well not bad, sounds pretty good. But who the hell likes ManU/Arsenal? Those are strange clubs". I didn't stand a chance to be fair. If Dad says so, it's probably right. So all the other German kids interested in international football fancied Arsenal's one-touch invincibles. And then there was me, not getting it. Like "really? Arsenal? How?"
Of course accessibility has grown and these days I barely miss a game. Considering broadcasting rights in the UK I probably have better access to live games than most english native supporters ;D Well, that's the short short version of how I ended up on this site. So here's my take on the atmosphere in the ground and around the club in a title challenge.

One can say I can't join the conversation, since I haven't been waiting for a league title for 29 years. And that is actually right, I can't argue with that. I have only started watching EVERY Liverpool game when Klopp took over. Because I was hoping for and kind of anticipating what we are witnessing now. I mean, I had seen it before (the timing of his arrival also coincided with great accessibility of international football in Germany, so that played into it as well). So I am joining the conversation, especially because Dortmund are also challenging again this season. And I follow Liverpool's more closely because I'm more excited about it. But I sense fundamental differences reading on this forum and being in touch with everything going on in Dortmund.
My best example of what "title challenges" feel like in this city is this season's Bayern-game (was too early back then to actually call it a "challenge" I would say). I was at that game and what went on on the terraces was indescribable. Bayern completely dominated that first half and it all looked like the season was back to taking its usual course. Did I really believe at halftime we could turn this game around and make it a proper title challenge? Fuck no! But it didn't matter. Not to anyone in the stadium did that matter. We were willing the team on, if we're going down we're going down the hard way. And boy did the lads come out firing! Quick equalizer and the ground was shaking and bouncing. And then -of course- right when we started believing maybe this could even work out for us, Bayern went ahead again just three minutes later. The entire ground (apart from the away end that is) went dead silent for like five seconds. But only for everyone to then simultaneously get off their seats and shout the team on again. It was just random noise and Come on!s but it did the job. It was clear that no heads were going to drop and every mistake was going to be forgiven, as long as everyone gave it their all until the final whistle goes. At that point, I clearly didn't believe we were going to win. But I still wouldn't transport these emotions to the lads, how is that ever going to help anyone? In Dortmund this is the way we do it. There's never a sentiment of "maybe we're gonna fuck up" in the stadium. I think it used to be the same in Liverpool, I mean come on. It's still where support comes from and it's why my dad loves the club. And therefore, it's why I do, too.
Yes, waiting for a title for almost 30 years is something else compared to having won it three times this millennium. But we had been waiting for 32 years until we won the Bundesliga for the first time in 95. We fell short in heartbreaking fashion in 92, being top like 5 minutes before the end of the season. Still, the fans gathered to celebrate the team like they had won something and chanted "German champions will only be BVB" (hard to translate as it's an uncommon formulation in German as well).
So I understand that I'm an outsider in this conversation and am just so full of hope and joy and not waiting as desperately as you guys are. But what happens on the terraces transfers onto the pitch, you can really trust everyone saying that (especially if it's the captain and manager of this club). People going to the games right now do have a great responsibility. If anyone can get me tickets, I'll be happy to show I'm not just talking the talk (I know it's not happening, but just to point it out). But that's not what this is about, you lads and lasses don't need anyone to show you how to support your team going for a big one. You just need to take a deep breath and put your focus on the right mindset before going to a game. What anyone writes on here, I don't think that has much of an effect on the way things are going.
If City are top before the Bournemouth game, so what? It's not going to have any effect on the outcome of that game. But the way the supporters would respond to that I'm sure would have an impact.


Well put, thank you.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4527 on: February 4, 2019, 04:44:16 PM »
Thank you for that post and a perspective from a neutral point of view.

Offline Classycara

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4528 on: February 4, 2019, 04:46:27 PM »
Okay, maybe to give the whole atmosphere-around-the-club-thing a little perspective: I'm a lifelong Dortmund supporter, having been raised in the city and never thought about supporting any other German club. My dad always had a soft spot for Liverpool, I guess due to the Kop being the cradle of today's way of supporting your team with chants and banners and all that. And probably also the glamour around the teams of the 70s and 80s. So he passed his passion on to me.
Whenever I had seen some Premier League highlights (which were way less common to get to see in Germany in the early 00s of course) of, say, Bergkamp or van Nistelrooy or what have you and was excited about it, he would always go: "Well not bad, sounds pretty good. But who the hell likes ManU/Arsenal? Those are strange clubs". I didn't stand a chance to be fair. If Dad says so, it's probably right. So all the other German kids interested in international football fancied Arsenal's one-touch invincibles. And then there was me, not getting it. Like "really? Arsenal? How?"
Of course accessibility has grown and these days I barely miss a game. Considering broadcasting rights in the UK I probably have better access to live games than most english native supporters ;D Well, that's the short short version of how I ended up on this site. So here's my take on the atmosphere in the ground and around the club in a title challenge.

One can say I can't join the conversation, since I haven't been waiting for a league title for 29 years. And that is actually right, I can't argue with that. I have only started watching EVERY Liverpool game when Klopp took over. Because I was hoping for and kind of anticipating what we are witnessing now. I mean, I had seen it before (the timing of his arrival also coincided with great accessibility of international football in Germany, so that played into it as well). So I am joining the conversation, especially because Dortmund are also challenging again this season. And I follow Liverpool's more closely because I'm more excited about it. But I sense fundamental differences reading on this forum and being in touch with everything going on in Dortmund.
My best example of what "title challenges" feel like in this city is this season's Bayern-game (was too early back then to actually call it a "challenge" I would say). I was at that game and what went on on the terraces was indescribable. Bayern completely dominated that first half and it all looked like the season was back to taking its usual course. Did I really believe at halftime we could turn this game around and make it a proper title challenge? Fuck no! But it didn't matter. Not to anyone in the stadium did that matter. We were willing the team on, if we're going down we're going down the hard way. And boy did the lads come out firing! Quick equalizer and the ground was shaking and bouncing. And then -of course- right when we started believing maybe this could even work out for us, Bayern went ahead again just three minutes later. The entire ground (apart from the away end that is) went dead silent for like five seconds. But only for everyone to then simultaneously get off their seats and shout the team on again. It was just random noise and Come on!s but it did the job. It was clear that no heads were going to drop and every mistake was going to be forgiven, as long as everyone gave it their all until the final whistle goes. At that point, I clearly didn't believe we were going to win. But I still wouldn't transport these emotions to the lads, how is that ever going to help anyone? In Dortmund this is the way we do it. There's never a sentiment of "maybe we're gonna fuck up" in the stadium. I think it used to be the same in Liverpool, I mean come on. It's still where support comes from and it's why my dad loves the club. And therefore, it's why I do, too.
Yes, waiting for a title for almost 30 years is something else compared to having won it three times this millennium. But we had been waiting for 32 years until we won the Bundesliga for the first time in 95. We fell short in heartbreaking fashion in 92, being top like 5 minutes before the end of the season. Still, the fans gathered to celebrate the team like they had won something and chanted "German champions will only be BVB" (hard to translate as it's an uncommon formulation in German as well).
So I understand that I'm an outsider in this conversation and am just so full of hope and joy and not waiting as desperately as you guys are. But what happens on the terraces transfers onto the pitch, you can really trust everyone saying that (especially if it's the captain and manager of this club). People going to the games right now do have a great responsibility. If anyone can get me tickets, I'll be happy to show I'm not just talking the talk (I know it's not happening, but just to point it out). But that's not what this is about, you lads and lasses don't need anyone to show you how to support your team going for a big one. You just need to take a deep breath and put your focus on the right mindset before going to a game. What anyone writes on here, I don't think that has much of an effect on the way things are going.
If City are top before the Bournemouth game, so what? It's not going to have any effect on the outcome of that game. But the way the supporters would respond to that I'm sure would have an impact.

Lovely post and perspective, great to have you here  :wave

edit: deFacto you nicked my key words! I honestly wrote my post before yours came up!

Offline KingKolo

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4529 on: February 4, 2019, 04:50:10 PM »
Apologies if this has already been posted.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/feb/04/manchester-city-pep-guardiola-arsenal-overthinking-pressure

Thanks for this. Much more relevant than a lot of what's happening in this thread at the moment.

Offline Fernando_Torres_Was_Good

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4530 on: February 4, 2019, 04:50:25 PM »
Fucking drama queens act like they don't have a choice in how they behave or how they're feeling.

"Ooooohhhhhh help me, give me attention, I shat myself and now I've pissed myself as well!!! Oooooohhhhh".

Well you know what? It is a fucking choice how you react to things in life, whether you take things in a positive or negative way.

Why anyone would choose to live their life pissing negativity from a great height onto the rest of us is beyond me. Its genuinely nuts and baffling.

This is literally negativity. You're choosing to spend your life judging the way that other people who support your football team react to pressure. Maybe rather than racking your brain as to why fans of a club that haven't won the league in almost 3 decades might be nervous when in a precarious position at the top - just get on with enjoying the football? It's a choice, right? And you're choosing to be affected by some people feeling a little nervous about the situation? Some people just love moaning about others moaning, without seeing the glaringly obvious irony.

Offline SinceSixtyFive

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4531 on: February 4, 2019, 04:54:26 PM »
This is literally negativity. You're choosing to spend your life judging the way that other people who support your football team react to pressure. Maybe rather than racking your brain as to why fans of a club that haven't won the league in almost 3 decades might be nervous when in a precarious position at the top - just get on with enjoying the football? It's a choice, right? And you're choosing to be affected by some people feeling a little nervous about the situation? Some people just love moaning about others moaning, without seeing the glaringly obvious irony.


I do enjoy the football. Its the "Negative Nellys" who don't. Its not complicated, not sure how you can get this so wrong?

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4532 on: February 4, 2019, 04:54:31 PM »
Quote
Maybe rather than racking your brain as to why fans of a club that haven't won the league in almost 3 decades might be nervous when in a precarious position at the top

This type of attitude isn't new to people on here. People were behaving the same year last year with CL qualification and the season before, keeping in mind we needed to win the last match to seal qualification, there were plenty prior to that game and through out the run in towards it that said

'we're going to bottle this in the end''

So it's not exclusive to just looking to win the title.

Offline KingKolo

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4533 on: February 4, 2019, 04:56:07 PM »
Okay, maybe to give the whole atmosphere-around-the-club-thing a little perspective: I'm a lifelong Dortmund supporter, having been raised in the city and never thought about supporting any other German club. My dad always had a soft spot for Liverpool, I guess due to the Kop being the cradle of today's way of supporting your team with chants and banners and all that. And probably also the glamour around the teams of the 70s and 80s. So he passed his passion on to me.
Whenever I had seen some Premier League highlights (which were way less common to get to see in Germany in the early 00s of course) of, say, Bergkamp or van Nistelrooy or what have you and was excited about it, he would always go: "Well not bad, sounds pretty good. But who the hell likes ManU/Arsenal? Those are strange clubs". I didn't stand a chance to be fair. If Dad says so, it's probably right. So all the other German kids interested in international football fancied Arsenal's one-touch invincibles. And then there was me, not getting it. Like "really? Arsenal? How?"
Of course accessibility has grown and these days I barely miss a game. Considering broadcasting rights in the UK I probably have better access to live games than most english native supporters ;D Well, that's the short short version of how I ended up on this site. So here's my take on the atmosphere in the ground and around the club in a title challenge.

One can say I can't join the conversation, since I haven't been waiting for a league title for 29 years. And that is actually right, I can't argue with that. I have only started watching EVERY Liverpool game when Klopp took over. Because I was hoping for and kind of anticipating what we are witnessing now. I mean, I had seen it before (the timing of his arrival also coincided with great accessibility of international football in Germany, so that played into it as well). So I am joining the conversation, especially because Dortmund are also challenging again this season. And I follow Liverpool's more closely because I'm more excited about it. But I sense fundamental differences reading on this forum and being in touch with everything going on in Dortmund.
My best example of what "title challenges" feel like in this city is this season's Bayern-game (was too early back then to actually call it a "challenge" I would say). I was at that game and what went on on the terraces was indescribable. Bayern completely dominated that first half and it all looked like the season was back to taking its usual course. Did I really believe at halftime we could turn this game around and make it a proper title challenge? Fuck no! But it didn't matter. Not to anyone in the stadium did that matter. We were willing the team on, if we're going down we're going down the hard way. And boy did the lads come out firing! Quick equalizer and the ground was shaking and bouncing. And then -of course- right when we started believing maybe this could even work out for us, Bayern went ahead again just three minutes later. The entire ground (apart from the away end that is) went dead silent for like five seconds. But only for everyone to then simultaneously get off their seats and shout the team on again. It was just random noise and Come on!s but it did the job. It was clear that no heads were going to drop and every mistake was going to be forgiven, as long as everyone gave it their all until the final whistle goes. At that point, I clearly didn't believe we were going to win. But I still wouldn't transport these emotions to the lads, how is that ever going to help anyone? In Dortmund this is the way we do it. There's never a sentiment of "maybe we're gonna fuck up" in the stadium. I think it used to be the same in Liverpool, I mean come on. It's still where support comes from and it's why my dad loves the club. And therefore, it's why I do, too.
Yes, waiting for a title for almost 30 years is something else compared to having won it three times this millennium. But we had been waiting for 32 years until we won the Bundesliga for the first time in 95. We fell short in heartbreaking fashion in 92, being top like 5 minutes before the end of the season. Still, the fans gathered to celebrate the team like they had won something and chanted "German champions will only be BVB" (hard to translate as it's an uncommon formulation in German as well).
So I understand that I'm an outsider in this conversation and am just so full of hope and joy and not waiting as desperately as you guys are. But what happens on the terraces transfers onto the pitch, you can really trust everyone saying that (especially if it's the captain and manager of this club). People going to the games right now do have a great responsibility. If anyone can get me tickets, I'll be happy to show I'm not just talking the talk (I know it's not happening, but just to point it out). But that's not what this is about, you lads and lasses don't need anyone to show you how to support your team going for a big one. You just need to take a deep breath and put your focus on the right mindset before going to a game. What anyone writes on here, I don't think that has much of an effect on the way things are going.
If City are top before the Bournemouth game, so what? It's not going to have any effect on the outcome of that game. But the way the supporters would respond to that I'm sure would have an impact.
Thanks for the post, and well said. Your dad sounds like a top fella btw. :)

I was in Istanbul at half time singing YNWA even though we all thought we'd lost the game. I know that's 14 years ago now, but has that spirit really gone? I'd like to think not.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4534 on: February 4, 2019, 05:03:26 PM »
The Dortmund game at Anfield is the belief we need collectively at every home match regardless of what transpires on the pitch. You can be nervous and you can celebrate and be passionate at the same time. It's not one or the other.

Offline RK7

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4535 on: February 4, 2019, 05:04:23 PM »
So many pretending to positive on here about everything but privately are probably very different. It's easy to spot them, normally found jumping on others opinions, taking offence when anyone dares to compliment a rival team or getting their knickers in s twist when everyone else in the league doesn't beat a rival for us. Live and let live FFS.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4536 on: February 4, 2019, 05:06:30 PM »
Thanks for the post, and well said. Your dad sounds like a top fella btw. :)

I was in Istanbul at half time singing YNWA even though we all thought we'd lost the game. I know that's 14 years ago now, but has that spirit really gone? I'd like to think not.

I think the singing at half time was more carthesis than support. Someone started YNWA and it it was a no more than a mumble and then the song just caught fire as everyone started singing it. I think that song was more for the fans who were at their lowest footballing point than for the team in the dressing room. The song was a way of getting through the sheer despression of the previous 45 minutes.

Offline DelTrotter

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4537 on: February 4, 2019, 05:08:12 PM »
So many pretending to positive on here about everything but privately are probably very different. It's easy to spot them, normally found jumping on others opinions, taking offence when anyone dares to compliment a rival team or getting their knickers in s twist when everyone else in the league doesn't beat a rival for us. Live and let live FFS.

Good to have you back, you went extremely quiet for a while there, funnily enough straight after Utd beat Spurs. ;)

And great post Korb, thanks!

Offline Classycara

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4538 on: February 4, 2019, 05:09:46 PM »
This is literally negativity. You're choosing to spend your life judging the way that other people who support your football team react to pressure. Maybe rather than racking your brain as to why fans of a club that haven't won the league in almost 3 decades might be nervous when in a precarious position at the top - just get on with enjoying the football? It's a choice, right? And you're choosing to be affected by some people feeling a little nervous about the situation? Some people just love moaning about others moaning, without seeing the glaringly obvious irony.

I can only answer for myself but I'm not arsed if people want to be a little direct and negative if they perceive an issue. Would far rather that than some passive repressed position.

I'm talking about being negative when watching our team in the ground. Our supporters have a responsibility and a job to do. And of all the jobs in a stadium on a matchday, it's the easiest one going.

Offline SinceSixtyFive

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4539 on: February 4, 2019, 05:10:37 PM »
This is literally negativity. You're choosing to spend your life judging the way that other people who support your football team react to pressure. Maybe rather than racking your brain as to why fans of a club that haven't won the league in almost 3 decades might be nervous when in a precarious position at the top - just get on with enjoying the football? It's a choice, right? And you're choosing to be affected by some people feeling a little nervous about the situation? Some people just love moaning about others moaning, without seeing the glaringly obvious irony.

And another thing  :P its not me judging is it? Its our manager and Colossus. When its clear its becoming an issue for the team fucking right I'm gonna call it out for what it is. Otherwise, yeh, you're probably right I shouldn't give a shit about how negative anyone was on a football forum.

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4540 on: February 4, 2019, 05:10:37 PM »
Okay, maybe to give the whole atmosphere-around-the-club-thing a little perspective: I'm a lifelong Dortmund supporter, having been raised in the city and never thought about supporting any other German club. My dad always had a soft spot for Liverpool, I guess due to the Kop being the cradle of today's way of supporting your team with chants and banners and all that. And probably also the glamour around the teams of the 70s and 80s. So he passed his passion on to me.
Whenever I had seen some Premier League highlights (which were way less common to get to see in Germany in the early 00s of course) of, say, Bergkamp or van Nistelrooy or what have you and was excited about it, he would always go: "Well not bad, sounds pretty good. But who the hell likes ManU/Arsenal? Those are strange clubs". I didn't stand a chance to be fair. If Dad says so, it's probably right. So all the other German kids interested in international football fancied Arsenal's one-touch invincibles. And then there was me, not getting it. Like "really? Arsenal? How?"
Of course accessibility has grown and these days I barely miss a game. Considering broadcasting rights in the UK I probably have better access to live games than most english native supporters ;D Well, that's the short short version of how I ended up on this site. So here's my take on the atmosphere in the ground and around the club in a title challenge.

One can say I can't join the conversation, since I haven't been waiting for a league title for 29 years. And that is actually right, I can't argue with that. I have only started watching EVERY Liverpool game when Klopp took over. Because I was hoping for and kind of anticipating what we are witnessing now. I mean, I had seen it before (the timing of his arrival also coincided with great accessibility of international football in Germany, so that played into it as well). So I am joining the conversation, especially because Dortmund are also challenging again this season. And I follow Liverpool's more closely because I'm more excited about it. But I sense fundamental differences reading on this forum and being in touch with everything going on in Dortmund.
My best example of what "title challenges" feel like in this city is this season's Bayern-game (was too early back then to actually call it a "challenge" I would say). I was at that game and what went on on the terraces was indescribable. Bayern completely dominated that first half and it all looked like the season was back to taking its usual course. Did I really believe at halftime we could turn this game around and make it a proper title challenge? Fuck no! But it didn't matter. Not to anyone in the stadium did that matter. We were willing the team on, if we're going down we're going down the hard way. And boy did the lads come out firing! Quick equalizer and the ground was shaking and bouncing. And then -of course- right when we started believing maybe this could even work out for us, Bayern went ahead again just three minutes later. The entire ground (apart from the away end that is) went dead silent for like five seconds. But only for everyone to then simultaneously get off their seats and shout the team on again. It was just random noise and Come on!s but it did the job. It was clear that no heads were going to drop and every mistake was going to be forgiven, as long as everyone gave it their all until the final whistle goes. At that point, I clearly didn't believe we were going to win. But I still wouldn't transport these emotions to the lads, how is that ever going to help anyone? In Dortmund this is the way we do it. There's never a sentiment of "maybe we're gonna fuck up" in the stadium. I think it used to be the same in Liverpool, I mean come on. It's still where support comes from and it's why my dad loves the club. And therefore, it's why I do, too.
Yes, waiting for a title for almost 30 years is something else compared to having won it three times this millennium. But we had been waiting for 32 years until we won the Bundesliga for the first time in 95. We fell short in heartbreaking fashion in 92, being top like 5 minutes before the end of the season. Still, the fans gathered to celebrate the team like they had won something and chanted "German champions will only be BVB" (hard to translate as it's an uncommon formulation in German as well).
So I understand that I'm an outsider in this conversation and am just so full of hope and joy and not waiting as desperately as you guys are. But what happens on the terraces transfers onto the pitch, you can really trust everyone saying that (especially if it's the captain and manager of this club). People going to the games right now do have a great responsibility. If anyone can get me tickets, I'll be happy to show I'm not just talking the talk (I know it's not happening, but just to point it out). But that's not what this is about, you lads and lasses don't need anyone to show you how to support your team going for a big one. You just need to take a deep breath and put your focus on the right mindset before going to a game. What anyone writes on here, I don't think that has much of an effect on the way things are going.
If City are top before the Bournemouth game, so what? It's not going to have any effect on the outcome of that game. But the way the supporters would respond to that I'm sure would have an impact.

Good post this

Its almost like some of our fans can't take the pressure of being in a title race. Well guess what... There is going to be pressure every week. There are still 14 games to go

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4541 on: February 4, 2019, 05:11:37 PM »
I'm going to chill out and try to enjoy what's left of the season. It feels awful shit projecting years of disappointment onto players that had no role in it. If this current lot fail so be it, that's life. I just don't want us to win the league and I haven't actually enjoyed it as much as I should have along the way. Let's see what happens.

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4542 on: February 4, 2019, 05:13:24 PM »
This is pretty much what everyone should be telling themselves.

The people who are stressing about a draw at Leicester need to calm down. There's more than a third of the season still left to play.

The people who thought we could win the league after City got beat by Newcastle need to calm down too. There's more than a third of the season still left to play.

A draw at home to Leicester is not fatal to our title chances. Conversely a 7 point lead wouldn't have meant that the league was almost ours.

The same type of logic applies to tonight's game. A win would be good. But even a loss wouldn't rule us out of the title race.

I understand that people want this league win more than anything from a footballing perspective. I do too. But we need to remember that there's a long way to go in this season yet. There'll be twists and turns during these last 14 games. Wanting us to win the league so much may not be a great thing. Eventually that pressure and tension has got to transmit itself to the players and manager. Whether that's through people at the ground, interactions with people the players see on a day to day basis or people on social media.

Yeah. People on both sides, the "bedwetters" and the "superfans" (to use two RAWK terms) need to chill out. I don't really believe in this 'every game is a cup final' shite either. We've got 14 games left to decide this title, not 90 minutes. Thinking like that, putting that much pressure on each individual game, leads to atmospheres like that against Leicester, people nervy as fuck when things aren't going perfectly. Such a long way to go boys. We're going to drop points and so are Man City.
« Last Edit: February 4, 2019, 05:29:13 PM by Dench57 »
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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4543 on: February 4, 2019, 05:13:41 PM »
When you've been a football fan for most of your life you tend to deal with football in different ways. Some are optimistic and have a positive outlook regardless of the upcoming fixture or the result. Others are maybe glass half empty, don't count chickens and treat every game with apprehension because anything can happen in 90 mins. Both ways of supporting your club are perfectly valid.

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4544 on: February 4, 2019, 05:20:21 PM »
When you've been a football fan for most of your life you tend to deal with football in different ways. Some are optimistic and have a positive outlook regardless of the upcoming fixture or the result. Others are maybe glass half empty, don't count chickens and treat every game with apprehension because anything can happen in 90 mins. Both ways of supporting your club are perfectly valid.

Agreed. This forum would be boring if there were no difference of opinions, but the supporters at the games need to hide their anxiety/worry/negativity.
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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4545 on: February 4, 2019, 05:32:48 PM »
Maybe because we'd had good success in the 60s, lack of social media or the 70s and 80s had some bad shit going on (IRA, Cold war and Thatcher to name just three) and people were more phlegmatic but if you look at some of the winning title margins in those decades fans must have nerves of steel. Liverpool's points total first, runner up second (obviously)

Two points for a win
72/73  60/57
75/76  60/59
76/77  57/56
79/80  60/58

Three points for a win
81/82  87/83
82/83  82/71
83/84  80/77
85/86  88/86
87/88  90/81
89/90  79/70


So with the exception of the highlighted titles in the 1980s all of the others had a fine marginn, a draw, 2 draws, a win, a win and a draw.

So buckle up and hold tight as I would suspect this seasons winning margin, whover wins it, will be tight.



Offline Wingman

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4546 on: February 4, 2019, 05:36:44 PM »
Agreed. This forum would be boring if there were no difference of opinions, but the supporters at the games need to hide their anxiety/worry/negativity.

Agreed but this thread has become boring in itself now!

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Offline Andypandimonium

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4547 on: February 4, 2019, 05:38:37 PM »
Okay, maybe to give the whole atmosphere-around-the-club-thing a little perspective: I'm a lifelong Dortmund supporter, having been raised in the city and never thought about supporting any other German club. My dad always had a soft spot for Liverpool, I guess due to the Kop being the cradle of today's way of supporting your team with chants and banners and all that. And probably also the glamour around the teams of the 70s and 80s. So he passed his passion on to me.
Whenever I had seen some Premier League highlights (which were way less common to get to see in Germany in the early 00s of course) of, say, Bergkamp or van Nistelrooy or what have you and was excited about it, he would always go: "Well not bad, sounds pretty good. But who the hell likes ManU/Arsenal? Those are strange clubs". I didn't stand a chance to be fair. If Dad says so, it's probably right. So all the other German kids interested in international football fancied Arsenal's one-touch invincibles. And then there was me, not getting it. Like "really? Arsenal? How?"
Of course accessibility has grown and these days I barely miss a game. Considering broadcasting rights in the UK I probably have better access to live games than most english native supporters ;D Well, that's the short short version of how I ended up on this site. So here's my take on the atmosphere in the ground and around the club in a title challenge.

One can say I can't join the conversation, since I haven't been waiting for a league title for 29 years. And that is actually right, I can't argue with that. I have only started watching EVERY Liverpool game when Klopp took over. Because I was hoping for and kind of anticipating what we are witnessing now. I mean, I had seen it before (the timing of his arrival also coincided with great accessibility of international football in Germany, so that played into it as well). So I am joining the conversation, especially because Dortmund are also challenging again this season. And I follow Liverpool's more closely because I'm more excited about it. But I sense fundamental differences reading on this forum and being in touch with everything going on in Dortmund.
My best example of what "title challenges" feel like in this city is this season's Bayern-game (was too early back then to actually call it a "challenge" I would say). I was at that game and what went on on the terraces was indescribable. Bayern completely dominated that first half and it all looked like the season was back to taking its usual course. Did I really believe at halftime we could turn this game around and make it a proper title challenge? Fuck no! But it didn't matter. Not to anyone in the stadium did that matter. We were willing the team on, if we're going down we're going down the hard way. And boy did the lads come out firing! Quick equalizer and the ground was shaking and bouncing. And then -of course- right when we started believing maybe this could even work out for us, Bayern went ahead again just three minutes later. The entire ground (apart from the away end that is) went dead silent for like five seconds. But only for everyone to then simultaneously get off their seats and shout the team on again. It was just random noise and Come on!s but it did the job. It was clear that no heads were going to drop and every mistake was going to be forgiven, as long as everyone gave it their all until the final whistle goes. At that point, I clearly didn't believe we were going to win. But I still wouldn't transport these emotions to the lads, how is that ever going to help anyone? In Dortmund this is the way we do it. There's never a sentiment of "maybe we're gonna fuck up" in the stadium. I think it used to be the same in Liverpool, I mean come on. It's still where support comes from and it's why my dad loves the club. And therefore, it's why I do, too.
Yes, waiting for a title for almost 30 years is something else compared to having won it three times this millennium. But we had been waiting for 32 years until we won the Bundesliga for the first time in 95. We fell short in heartbreaking fashion in 92, being top like 5 minutes before the end of the season. Still, the fans gathered to celebrate the team like they had won something and chanted "German champions will only be BVB" (hard to translate as it's an uncommon formulation in German as well).
So I understand that I'm an outsider in this conversation and am just so full of hope and joy and not waiting as desperately as you guys are. But what happens on the terraces transfers onto the pitch, you can really trust everyone saying that (especially if it's the captain and manager of this club). People going to the games right now do have a great responsibility. If anyone can get me tickets, I'll be happy to show I'm not just talking the talk (I know it's not happening, but just to point it out). But that's not what this is about, you lads and lasses don't need anyone to show you how to support your team going for a big one. You just need to take a deep breath and put your focus on the right mindset before going to a game. What anyone writes on here, I don't think that has much of an effect on the way things are going.
If City are top before the Bournemouth game, so what? It's not going to have any effect on the outcome of that game. But the way the supporters would respond to that I'm sure would have an impact.

Tremendous input from Korbflechter here. Lets listen to him/her and bring the best we can bring to Anfield for the rest of this season. What a world it would be for Liverpool, Dortmund, and the Red Sox to champions at the same time. It can and will happen people...just believe! Salah and Mane will enjoy themselves tonight...let's do the same  :scarf

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4548 on: February 4, 2019, 05:50:12 PM »
Okay, maybe to give the whole atmosphere-around-the-club-thing a little perspective: I'm a lifelong Dortmund supporter, having been raised in the city and never thought about supporting any other German club. My dad always had a soft spot for Liverpool, I guess due to the Kop being the cradle of today's way of supporting your team with chants and banners and all that. And probably also the glamour around the teams of the 70s and 80s. So he passed his passion on to me.
Whenever I had seen some Premier League highlights (which were way less common to get to see in Germany in the early 00s of course) of, say, Bergkamp or van Nistelrooy or what have you and was excited about it, he would always go: "Well not bad, sounds pretty good. But who the hell likes ManU/Arsenal? Those are strange clubs". I didn't stand a chance to be fair. If Dad says so, it's probably right. So all the other German kids interested in international football fancied Arsenal's one-touch invincibles. And then there was me, not getting it. Like "really? Arsenal? How?"
Of course accessibility has grown and these days I barely miss a game. Considering broadcasting rights in the UK I probably have better access to live games than most english native supporters ;D Well, that's the short short version of how I ended up on this site. So here's my take on the atmosphere in the ground and around the club in a title challenge.

One can say I can't join the conversation, since I haven't been waiting for a league title for 29 years. And that is actually right, I can't argue with that. I have only started watching EVERY Liverpool game when Klopp took over. Because I was hoping for and kind of anticipating what we are witnessing now. I mean, I had seen it before (the timing of his arrival also coincided with great accessibility of international football in Germany, so that played into it as well). So I am joining the conversation, especially because Dortmund are also challenging again this season. And I follow Liverpool's more closely because I'm more excited about it. But I sense fundamental differences reading on this forum and being in touch with everything going on in Dortmund.
My best example of what "title challenges" feel like in this city is this season's Bayern-game (was too early back then to actually call it a "challenge" I would say). I was at that game and what went on on the terraces was indescribable. Bayern completely dominated that first half and it all looked like the season was back to taking its usual course. Did I really believe at halftime we could turn this game around and make it a proper title challenge? Fuck no! But it didn't matter. Not to anyone in the stadium did that matter. We were willing the team on, if we're going down we're going down the hard way. And boy did the lads come out firing! Quick equalizer and the ground was shaking and bouncing. And then -of course- right when we started believing maybe this could even work out for us, Bayern went ahead again just three minutes later. The entire ground (apart from the away end that is) went dead silent for like five seconds. But only for everyone to then simultaneously get off their seats and shout the team on again. It was just random noise and Come on!s but it did the job. It was clear that no heads were going to drop and every mistake was going to be forgiven, as long as everyone gave it their all until the final whistle goes. At that point, I clearly didn't believe we were going to win. But I still wouldn't transport these emotions to the lads, how is that ever going to help anyone? In Dortmund this is the way we do it. There's never a sentiment of "maybe we're gonna fuck up" in the stadium. I think it used to be the same in Liverpool, I mean come on. It's still where support comes from and it's why my dad loves the club. And therefore, it's why I do, too.
Yes, waiting for a title for almost 30 years is something else compared to having won it three times this millennium. But we had been waiting for 32 years until we won the Bundesliga for the first time in 95. We fell short in heartbreaking fashion in 92, being top like 5 minutes before the end of the season. Still, the fans gathered to celebrate the team like they had won something and chanted "German champions will only be BVB" (hard to translate as it's an uncommon formulation in German as well).
So I understand that I'm an outsider in this conversation and am just so full of hope and joy and not waiting as desperately as you guys are. But what happens on the terraces transfers onto the pitch, you can really trust everyone saying that (especially if it's the captain and manager of this club). People going to the games right now do have a great responsibility. If anyone can get me tickets, I'll be happy to show I'm not just talking the talk (I know it's not happening, but just to point it out). But that's not what this is about, you lads and lasses don't need anyone to show you how to support your team going for a big one. You just need to take a deep breath and put your focus on the right mindset before going to a game. What anyone writes on here, I don't think that has much of an effect on the way things are going.
If City are top before the Bournemouth game, so what? It's not going to have any effect on the outcome of that game. But the way the supporters would respond to that I'm sure would have an impact.

Great post and some really good perspective in it.
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Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4549 on: February 4, 2019, 05:53:02 PM »

Good post and spot on.

I think the main difference between the Liverpool of old and the Liverpool of new, and indeed Liverpool and Dortmund, is the demographics od match-going support and indeed the overall culture of the match-day experience.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I've only seen Union Berlin play in Germany so can't comment on the Bundesliga), but in Germany the match-day experience is affordable, the match-day culture still feels quite community oriented and, maybe most importantly, it is still highly accessible to younger fans (and especially those who want to stand together). Basically all the things that it used to be here. Unfortunitely the Premier League is none of those things.
« Last Edit: February 4, 2019, 05:55:05 PM by Indomitable_Carp »

Offline Perham

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4550 on: February 4, 2019, 06:03:06 PM »
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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4551 on: February 4, 2019, 06:21:57 PM »
I think the singing at half time was more carthesis than support. Someone started YNWA and it it was a no more than a mumble and then the song just caught fire as everyone started singing it. I think that song was more for the fans who were at their lowest footballing point than for the team in the dressing room. The song was a way of getting through the sheer despression of the previous 45 minutes.
Speak for yourself. I definitely wanted the players to hear it and feel it, even if we got battered 2nd half as well.

Offline King.Keita

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4552 on: February 4, 2019, 06:33:09 PM »
When you've been a football fan for most of your life you tend to deal with football in different ways. Some are optimistic and have a positive outlook regardless of the upcoming fixture or the result. Others are maybe glass half empty, don't count chickens and treat every game with apprehension because anything can happen in 90 mins. Both ways of supporting your club are perfectly valid.
I'd say I'm the latter but wouldn't think of myself of a half-empty type of guy. It's just that we've set such a high standard for ourselves this season that the draw to Leicester almost felt like a loss. On another day if we had a smooth snowless pitch and less injuries, we'd have twatted them 4-0. But alas, such is football. I personally hope we absolutely destroy West Ham like we've never done before, would send out such a statement and it'd get the confidence right up not only within the players but also fans, backroom staff etc.

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4553 on: February 4, 2019, 06:34:25 PM »
I think the singing at half time was more carthesis than support. Someone started YNWA and it it was a no more than a mumble and then the song just caught fire as everyone started singing it. I think that song was more for the fans who were at their lowest footballing point than for the team in the dressing room. The song was a way of getting through the sheer despression of the previous 45 minutes.
it was a weird one wasnt it, suppose it depends on where you were in the ground, me i was behind the goal half way up on line with 6 yard box line. All the goals were at the other end too...  anyway that YNWA, was the most solemn, profound soothing song to ease that pain, but it remained beautiful but became fierce (and sung slowly too).  Will never ever forget that YNWA heard so many over the years, but football (on the pitch matters) related that  was up 2nd only to the 89 cup final.
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Offline Korbflechter

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4554 on: February 4, 2019, 06:46:12 PM »
Thanks for the kind words everyone, I really enjoy reading this forum. :wave

Good post and spot on.

I think the main difference between the Liverpool of old and the Liverpool of new, and indeed Liverpool and Dortmund, is the demographics od match-going support and indeed the overall culture of the match-day experience.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I've only seen Union Berlin play in Germany so can't comment on the Bundesliga), but in Germany the match-day experience is affordable, the match-day culture still feels quite community oriented and, maybe most importantly, it is still highly accessible to younger fans (and especially those who want to stand together). Basically all the things that it used to be here. Unfortunitely the Premier League is none of those things.

Yes, it is affordable and attracts exactly the people you're referring to. German supporters are really keen on it staying that way, too. Bayern fans successfully went against AEK Athens for ripping them off in their away game there. Whenever supporters of any club feel they're being milked, they are going to make their voices heard and there will be an outcry among supporters from other clubs as well. In that regard, German supporters really stand together. And it is much needed, otherwise it probably already wouldn't be this way anymore.

As for the demographics, one has to give credit to the older chaps (is that only men btw? I mean to include women anyway ;D) in the stadium as well, though. The share of younger people probably makes it more likely to create an atmosphere, but never count out the experienced. They are not few either and they can go when it matters. Especially when it comes to putting pressure on the ref and stuff like that ;)

Offline didi shamone

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4555 on: February 4, 2019, 06:51:46 PM »
The mindset is a bit mental.

Saw an LFC fan on the BBC comment section (I know), saying that City are looking 'frightening' again. This after a Phil McNulty article which finished with 'the champions are back in the mood to fight to hold on to their crown.'

Imperious, unstoppable, frightening, score for fun.

They lost 2-1 to Newcastle less than a week ago.

They'd taken 15 points from a possible 30 in the ten league games prior to Arsenal. We got 25. Now they won't continue that bad and we might not remain that good but the hyperbole surrounding them is nuts.

Offline Bobinhood

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4556 on: February 4, 2019, 06:53:50 PM »
This game is being held at Pulling, Away. Lovely this time of year.
Damn that Mane's good!

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Offline jillc

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4557 on: February 4, 2019, 06:54:45 PM »
Thanks for the kind words everyone, I really enjoy reading this forum. :wave

Yes, it is affordable and attracts exactly the people you're referring to. German supporters are really keen on it staying that way, too. Bayern fans successfully went against AEK Athens for ripping them off in their away game there. Whenever supporters of any club feel they're being milked, they are going to make their voices heard and there will be an outcry among supporters from other clubs as well. In that regard, German supporters really stand together. And it is much needed, otherwise it probably already wouldn't be this way anymore.

As for the demographics, one has to give credit to the older chaps (is that only men btw? I mean to include women anyway ;D) in the stadium as well, though. The share of younger people probably makes it more likely to create an atmosphere, but never count out the experienced. They are not few either and they can go when it matters. Especially when it comes to putting pressure on the ref and stuff like that ;)

There is a really good Bundesliga thread in the General Football part of the website Korbflechter, it's a really good one would enjoy your contribution on there, should you be interested. Especially with Dortmund doing so well once again.
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Offline Korbflechter

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4558 on: February 4, 2019, 07:14:50 PM »
There is a really good Bundesliga thread in the General Football part of the website Korbflechter, it's a really good one would enjoy your contribution on there, should you be interested. Especially with Dortmund doing so well once again.

You're absolutely right. I have read through it every now and then to see how you guys feel about the Bundesliga, but never thought about contributing. Will definitely change that.

Offline Dave D

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Re: Chasing the Title, The Pack Chasing Us
« Reply #4559 on: February 4, 2019, 10:23:43 PM »
I expect man city to score 8 or 9 past everton in their next game with both everton fans and players applauding every goal scored against them.
You can never trust everton.