Author Topic: Chasing the Title  (Read 1093088 times)

Offline Bergersleftpeg

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2018, 03:29:45 PM »
Good OP.

I agree that we should just forget about goal difference.

City were coasting from the start last year pretty much. It will be interesting to see how they deal with us, Chelsea and Spurs staying level or close to them as the season wears on. Drawing 1-1 with 10 to go when you are 9 points clear and drawing 1-1 with 10 to go when you know you will be 2 points behind if you don't get another are very different situations to be in psychologically.

Hopefully we will see a few cracks start to appear soon and we will be ready to exploit them. It doesn't take much, a shitty pitch at Wembley tonight could shake them up a bit or it could be an injury / suspension to a key player. Same applies to us of course, but I suppose the point is that the margins are so fine in this game and teams can go from looking like world-beaters to not being able to buy a win for a few weeks very quickly.

I expect both us and City to have a wobble. If theirs happens before ours then I think we will be favourites.

Offline hide5seek

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2018, 03:31:08 PM »
The league won't be won/lost on goal difference.
I agree with this.

Also were nowhere near the end of the season. Lets go back to the old take one game at a time and see where we are the last few games of the season.

Offline lemons

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2018, 03:33:08 PM »
A lot of 13/14 talk but 08/09 did me in for ages. Not least because of the Ferguson-Allardyce-HenryWinter-Murdoch campaign against Rafa which pretty much echoed every thing the team did. We had a killer team that year but United had a much stronger squad. Wasn't the same for years after that.

Twitter and the immaturity of new age McFandom makes his almost pointless to say - but I don't care if we don't win anything this season. Klopp's still building. I hope he stays here as long as Simeone has at Aleti. If we give him that time, good things will come.

Also just so effing happy to have a manager we trust in charge again. We're going places - that ice is slowly melting.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2018, 03:58:09 PM »
To the op:

Hehehe. I've repeated a similar scenario a few times over the last 8 years... remember, when we drew a game and were on top of the table but the knives came out on "defensive" Rafa Benitez for his team selection etc.

And remember those years when the media openly asked whether Benitez should keep his job if he won the UCL and only finished 3rd in the Premier League?

When I stated those a few years ago, it seemed like ages ago (as if I was making it up) but if we don't know how to appreciate we could find ourselves in another hole with another series of coaches who want to fix problems with a team with British identity or what not else.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 03:59:50 PM by SteveZissou »
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Offline Dench57

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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2018, 04:15:20 PM »
Totally disagree with this and the narrative about City on here and growing on TAW.

So, if this becomes the prevailing viewpoint, that we have to score an avalanche of  goals and match City's goal difference then it becomes problematic. You are enabling a financially doped team to distort the context of what our team are achieving. Noticed City sell any important players recently? No, me neither - see Sterling become one of City's best players last season, and Coutinho and Suarez beat Real Madrid 5-1 yesterday? The team that are statistically the best team to have ever played in the top flight in English football? You want us to score more, concede less, beat on points and in doing so amass our record points tally and goal difference. And if not: fume?

Here's what will happen: it will start with people such as Neil and yourself becoming disillusioned with 4-1 wins at home, putting us on 8 wins and 2 draws -  stating that we absolutely need to keep pace with City because: Crystal Palace. This will eventually become a narrative for a whole strata of fans on Twitter, who will ignore the nuances of the narrative and reduce it to: we need to score 5 a game. Then, when we hit a rocky patch, where do you go from being frustrated with 4-1 at home to drawing with Wolves at home? I'll tell you. Just like the West Ham game all those years ago, booing - cruel, twisted, vindictive bile. Soon enough, we'll have "crisis" pods with Paul Senior and Nevin popping back to tell everyone he was right. (I really like these two contributors, by the way, but facts are facts).

The Ronnie Moran analogy harks back to an age Mourinho is desperately attempting to cling onto - klaxon: it doesn't exist any more. Modern players don't respond to being berated, so hammering players when they have won 4-1- whether it be from managers or fans who have a social media presence-  it just becomes part of the Arsenal TV cycle, a reductive narrative that ignores the achievements of the team and manager in the pursuit of something we have never achieved in our lifetime: 100 points and a goal difference in the region of 80. In 1978, our goal difference was 69, in 87-88 it was 63. Never mind our history, or we got 75 points last season and a goal difference of 46 - we have decided we need to match City. That's the flag in the ground and I'll be "seething" whenever my flag isn't hoisted like a league title.

Klopp has raised expectations beyond belief with 8 wins and 2 draws from 10 games - once we hit a rocky patch, the masses will begin to swirl and smell blood. Just as they have on Henderson.

It reminds me of the cyclists who were watching the yellow jersey of Lance Armstrong as he doped himself to seven Tour de France victories - I can imagine their fans hammering them for not nailing Alpe d’Huez, not being as fast or as brilliant as Armstrong. When in fact, they were absolutely performing at their optimum.

Conclusion? Fucking enjoy going toe to toe with them. Forget goal difference, I'll bet you £100 now they will have a better goal difference, whether we win the league or not (genuine offer). it's not going to happen, hammering the team to do so will be counter productive to atmosphere.

Support the team, don't let the vile disenchantment of goal difference deter from what is shaping up to be a tremendous season. And believe me, from going to Anfield for 30 years, I know that will happen - the shouts, the desperation, the groans, the dissatisfaction - the bipolar opposite of the great European nights.

Up the Mighty Fucking Reds.

I was coming here to post something similar especially after reading Alan's post but you've written it better than I could've. People's obsession with goal difference this year is baffling. I'd also happily wager we won't beat City on GD, but that doesn't matter because the title is going to be won on points.
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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2018, 04:17:28 PM »
I'm interested how people are so certain that the title won't be decided on GD? Not that I particularly think it's worthy of anything beyond a minor concern or discussion point, but it has come down to that once already this decade, and should have done in 2013/14, too. Unlikely but not impossible by any means.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2018, 04:19:02 PM »
All of us can't help sneaking a look at the table but it's got nothing to do with the reality of a title challenge: there simply isn't one in October. In a competitive league, you'll always have a few teams close-by early on and then the field gets cleared midway. In English football, that's usually the fixture congested jagged rocks of the December, early January period.

Right now it's just nice looking at the quality in the squad, the level on the pitch, the fact that we're competitive after so long being on the periphery. I'm sure it differs by fan but at this point I don't even know the number of points we're on nor the difference to the next team in the table. Purposeless. / OptaJoe.

 

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2018, 04:20:09 PM »
People's preoccupation with goal difference, especially this early, is a bit bizarre. I'd also happily wager we won't beat City on GD, but that doesn't matter because the title is going to be won on points.

I just think trying to rack up cricket scores in every game to catch Man City isn't worth the risk of dropping points by leaving ourselves open or running our best players into the ground because if we rotate we'll not score as many. Klopp himself said we've sacrificed some of our firepower by being more solid this season.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 04:21:44 PM by Dench57 »
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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2018, 04:22:41 PM »
I'm interested how people are so certain that the title won't be decided on GD? Not that I particularly think it's worthy of anything beyond a minor concern or discussion point, but it has come down to that once already this decade, and should have done in 2013/14, too. Unlikely but not impossible by any means.

It shouldn’t have in 2014
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Offline S

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2018, 04:28:47 PM »
to be honest im just hoping for a title challenge......forget worrying about it being lost on goal difference!  :o

title talk for me enters around March/April. sure may speculate from time to time but its barely November ffs

At the moment its just about keeping in touching distance of the top, if we can lead from the front then great! Way too soon for all this talk imo

But I absolutely agree with sentiments of OP
Agree with this.

The likes of Sky hype up the title race from the first game. Their "Champions v Challengers" schtick for our game against City was embarrassing.

It's November. Let's see where we are in April before worrying about goal difference so much.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #50 on: October 29, 2018, 04:35:04 PM »
December will determine if we are actual challengers or not [as it will for other sides as well]

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #51 on: October 29, 2018, 05:03:11 PM »
I was a bit critical of Saturday in the post match thread- not because of the possibility of the title being decided on goal difference but because for pretty much an hour against one of the worst teams in the league at home we coasted and made poor decisions.

I wanted us to kill the game earlier- I thought our attitude was poor in the sense that we allowed the game to drift rather than going up the gears to get a second and third before half time. Maybe it is a sense of City burning everyone's head out, but I also remember us dropping stupid points against poor teams over the years by playing as if we only have to turn up. We need a ruthless mentality- when someone is down stamp on their throat and finish them off.

I'm delighted with our start, and I really believe we can challenge to the end for the league but to do this we cannot allow poor teams 66 minutes of hope by staying within 1 goal with Liverpool seemingly happy to go through the motions- one lucky goal could see us drop points after we have wasted a half doing nothing. I think maybe TAW went over the top but I think their criticism was similar to mine in that it was attitude that was the main problem.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #52 on: October 29, 2018, 05:15:16 PM »
I was a bit critical of Saturday in the post match thread- not because of the possibility of the title being decided on goal difference but because for pretty much an hour against one of the worst teams in the league at home we coasted and made poor decisions.

I wanted us to kill the game earlier- I thought our attitude was poor in the sense that we allowed the game to drift rather than going up the gears to get a second and third before half time. Maybe it is a sense of City burning everyone's head out, but I also remember us dropping stupid points against poor teams over the years by playing as if we only have to turn up. We need a ruthless mentality- when someone is down stamp on their throat and finish them off.

I'm delighted with our start, and I really believe we can challenge to the end for the league but to do this we cannot allow poor teams 66 minutes of hope by staying within 1 goal with Liverpool seemingly happy to go through the motions- one lucky goal could see us drop points after we have wasted a half doing nothing. I think maybe TAW went over the top but I think their criticism was similar to mine in that it was attitude that was the main problem.

We played in midweek in Europe, in a demanding game, and we were on the ball for 80 percent of the match against Cardiff who parked the bus.

They had one lucky goal and we switched gears and scored 2 in 3 minutes.

It's a marathon not a sprint. You can't play fantastic in every match in England, in the coming months without mistakes.

Football itself is a game of mistakes, who makes less mistakes wins the match. I don't understand this attitude of where we are expected to play fantastic football  from start to finish as if we were league and European cup winners. We're not.

Even City who won 100 points last year didn't play like that in every game, they had numerous late match winners against lower sides the same sides you are mentioning.



« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 05:17:18 PM by deFacto »

Offline kavah

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2018, 05:17:11 PM »
A superb start to the season by us City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs

It’s just great to be in the conversation.

Imagine if City had to sell David Silva in 2015 and Aguero in 2016.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 10:04:14 PM by kavah »

Offline SteveZissou

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2018, 05:21:17 PM »
I was a bit critical of Saturday in the post match thread- not because of the possibility of the title being decided on goal difference but because for pretty much an hour against one of the worst teams in the league at home we coasted and made poor decisions.

I wanted us to kill the game earlier- I thought our attitude was poor in the sense that we allowed the game to drift rather than going up the gears to get a second and third before half time. Maybe it is a sense of City burning everyone's head out, but I also remember us dropping stupid points against poor teams over the years by playing as if we only have to turn up. We need a ruthless mentality- when someone is down stamp on their throat and finish them off.

I'm delighted with our start, and I really believe we can challenge to the end for the league but to do this we cannot allow poor teams 66 minutes of hope by staying within 1 goal with Liverpool seemingly happy to go through the motions- one lucky goal could see us drop points after we have wasted a half doing nothing. I think maybe TAW went over the top but I think their criticism was similar to mine in that it was attitude that was the main problem.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2018, 05:27:07 PM »
Dear Agony Aunt
Normally I give my wife an orgasm in the 60th minute, but from the last winter she's been used to two separate orgasms around the 20th and 30th minutes... I used to think all that matters is that she get's an orgasm, now she's counting the orgasms and making sure they're equally spaced in 90 minutes, like one every 30 minutes... but she told me that she could live with 2 in 30 minutes and one or two more later... but she gets really cranky if I make her hold on for too long because once I did that, 3 orgasms in the last 10 minutes and she complained that they were not evenly spaced out.

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Offline Franck Le Poof

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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2018, 05:34:13 PM »
You can't see the difference between how it was discussed today and how it was discussed on Saturday?

Should TAW close the podcast and the RAWK admins close this forum every time we win?
For one, I think we've all seen the usual moaning bastards get called exactly that in every post-match thread on RAWK through the years, so pointing it out here is no different.

Secondly, while it's a matter of perspective it's also a matter of target audience. Take Mo's attempt from the halfway line. The pessimist (Neil, in this case) would argue that it's symptomatic of a general attacking malaise and lack of ideas. The optimist might argue that Mo's scored, got two assists, and attempted something audacious which is representative of rediscovered confidence as a result of an all around good week for him. There's nothing inherently wrong with the pessimist's view - however I'd personally argue that it's a dime a dozen opinion. I can find it in the post match thread on RAWK, on R/LFC or R/soccer. Sport-pessimism is rife across the internet. Speaking for myself - I listen to TAW, including the post-match show, for its measured perspective on Liverpool Football Club. I think arguing that the post-match show is inherently emotional is a cheap excuse; yes it's emotional but at its best it is also intelligent and measured in its own right, that is what separates it from Arsenal Fan TV and the likes. When it loses that, it loses its appeal.

Winning 4-1 at Home while never getting out of second gear, while never properly looking in danger, and going top of the fucking league and hearing it described as "horse shit", "disgraceful",
"fucking crap" and general fucking moaning and whinging makes for awful listening that is far more reminiscent of having someone reading out the comments page on talksport or youtube than Liverpool's premier supporter's podcast. Neil's more "calm" take in his written review and on the Talking Reds were both rightfully called out for being unreasonably negative. We have objectively, statistically had the best start to a season in our lifetimes. The content in the aftermath has not reflected that and I personally found that it was genuinely tiresome.

For what it's worth, The Post-Match Pint was leagues ahead in its take while also acknowledging the less-positive in our performance in that it managed to temper it with the fact that we are top of the fucking league and winning with ease at the moment. I gravitated away from online forums and towards TAW for my post-match discussion fix precisely because I preferred passionate yet reasoned discussion over rampant knee-jerk negativity. I never thought that RAWK post-match comments would be more reasoned, thoughtful, and positive than TAW's post-match show but here we are.

 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 05:42:51 PM by Franck Le Poof »
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Offline idontknow

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2018, 05:35:54 PM »
......I doff my cap to you
Bit personal that for a forum surely  :-[
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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #58 on: October 29, 2018, 05:38:11 PM »
I'm interested how people are so certain that the title won't be decided on GD? Not that I particularly think it's worthy of anything beyond a minor concern or discussion point, but it has come down to that once already this decade, and should have done in 2013/14, too. Unlikely but not impossible by any means.

Statistically it is pretty unlikely. Unfortunately for us, we cannot manage to go all out in the manner that City do. Our squad isn't as big as theirs, so we have to pick and choose our moments to go for the jugular.
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Offline johnny74

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2018, 05:50:38 PM »
The minute you start worrying about goal difference then you are taking your eye off "winning the game".

City win games by large margins because it's how they play. If you try and copy someone else you will fail.

One of Jurgen Klopp's weaknesses has been closing games off. He admitted himself (he may have been half-joking) that he didn't know how to play for a draw.

This season we should let him continue the game management improvements he seems to be showing.




Offline Destiny

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #60 on: October 29, 2018, 05:58:01 PM »
I'm sure Man utd were in tears in 08/09 when we did the double over them and had plus 6 better goal difference.  All that matters is that we are level with City could not care less how many games they win 5-0.

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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2018, 06:10:24 PM »
Totally disagree with this and the narrative about City on here and growing on TAW.

So, if this becomes the prevailing viewpoint, that we have to score an avalanche of  goals and match City's goal difference then it becomes problematic. You are enabling a financially doped team to distort the context of what our team are achieving. Noticed City sell any important players recently? No, me neither - see Sterling become one of City's best players last season, and Coutinho and Suarez beat Real Madrid 5-1 yesterday? The team that are statistically the best team to have ever played in the top flight in English football? You want us to score more, concede less, beat on points and in doing so amass our record points tally and goal difference. And if not: fume?

Here's what will happen: it will start with people such as Neil and yourself becoming disillusioned with 4-1 wins at home, putting us on 8 wins and 2 draws -  stating that we absolutely need to keep pace with City because: Crystal Palace. This will eventually become a narrative for a whole strata of fans on Twitter, who will ignore the nuances of the narrative and reduce it to: we need to score 5 a game. Then, when we hit a rocky patch, where do you go from being frustrated with 4-1 at home to drawing with Wolves at home? I'll tell you. Just like the West Ham game all those years ago, booing - cruel, twisted, vindictive bile. Soon enough, we'll have "crisis" pods with Paul Senior and Nevin popping back to tell everyone he was right. (I really like these two contributors, by the way, but facts are facts).

The Ronnie Moran analogy harks back to an age Mourinho is desperately attempting to cling onto - klaxon: it doesn't exist any more. Modern players don't respond to being berated, so hammering players when they have won 4-1- whether it be from managers or fans who have a social media presence-  it just becomes part of the Arsenal TV cycle, a reductive narrative that ignores the achievements of the team and manager in the pursuit of something we have never achieved in our lifetime: 100 points and a goal difference in the region of 80. In 1978, our goal difference was 69, in 87-88 it was 63. Never mind our history, or we got 75 points last season and a goal difference of 46 - we have decided we need to match City. That's the flag in the ground and I'll be "seething" whenever my flag isn't hoisted like a league title.

Klopp has raised expectations beyond belief with 8 wins and 2 draws from 10 games - once we hit a rocky patch, the masses will begin to swirl and smell blood. Just as they have on Henderson.

It reminds me of the cyclists who were watching the yellow jersey of Lance Armstrong as he doped himself to seven Tour de France victories - I can imagine their fans hammering them for not nailing Alpe d’Huez, not being as fast or as brilliant as Armstrong. When in fact, they were absolutely performing at their optimum.

Conclusion? Fucking enjoy going toe to toe with them. Forget goal difference, I'll bet you £100 now they will have a better goal difference, whether we win the league or not (genuine offer). it's not going to happen, hammering the team to do so will be counter productive to atmosphere.

Support the team, don't let the vile disenchantment of goal difference deter from what is shaping up to be a tremendous season. And believe me, from going to Anfield for 30 years, I know that will happen - the shouts, the desperation, the groans, the dissatisfaction - the bipolar opposite of the great European nights.

Up the Mighty Fucking Reds.

Thanks for the reply. I think you're misrepresenting what I'm saying somewhat.

The Ronnie Moran story wasn't about being berated. It was the opposite if anything. There was no need to berate the players - the message was simple and unspoken: no complacency and no resting on previous achievements.

Of course we have to match City. Unless you're saying that Liverpool should be happy with second place and excuse it because City have a shitload of money.

I'm not saying we should fume about every game - read my posts and you'll know that my mantra is to enjoy the fucking game. But for as long as I can remember we have been 'turning the corner' or waiting for the 'final piece of the jigsaw'. For the first time since Bob Paisley I think we have a team of consummate professionals with the strength in depth to rely on ourselves rather than others to win. I loved Kenny's team for the excitement up front but Bob's side had an incredible midfield and defence in addition to King Kenny and Rush. I think we're getting there if not already there with Klopp's recruitment and management.

30 years watching Liverpool would put you at the end of that incredible period when we were consistently the best team in England followed by twenty-five years of Ferguson's United winning league after league and cup after cup.

I'm not disillusioned with a 4-1 win and 2.6 points a game. I am buzzing with the prospect of challenging for the league and not in a Leicester City 'everyone-else-has-fucked-up' way but in a 'let's-go-toe-to-toe-with-the-best' way. I don't that leads to this at all:

Quote
...Here's what will happen: it will start with people such as Neil and yourself becoming disillusioned with 4-1 wins at home, putting us on 8 wins and 2 draws -  stating that we absolutely need to keep pace with City because: Crystal Palace. This will eventually become a narrative for a whole strata of fans on Twitter, who will ignore the nuances of the narrative and reduce it to: we need to score 5 a game. Then, when we hit a rocky patch, where do you go from being frustrated with 4-1 at home to drawing with Wolves at home? I'll tell you. Just like the West Ham game all those years ago, booing - cruel, twisted, vindictive bile. Soon enough, we'll have "crisis" pods with Paul Senior and Nevin popping back to tell everyone he was right. (I really like these two contributors, by the way, but facts are facts)...

...because if we hit a 'rocky patch' and fall behind then I'm happy to predict it will be game over for the league. Lose touch with City over a couple of weeks and I will be incredibly disappointed. Unlike previous near-misses I won't be devastated though, because this team will continue to grow and develop.

In November 2008 when there were boos after we went top, the response was maybe over the top but let's be honest it was the 11 draws (7 at home) that cost us the title that year.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 06:12:37 PM by Alan_X »
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Offline DHKopper

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2018, 06:13:02 PM »
Dear Agony Aunt
Normally I give my wife an orgasm in the 60th minute, but from the last winter she's been used to two separate orgasms around the 20th and 30th minutes... I used to think all that matters is that she get's an orgasm, now she's counting the orgasms and making sure they're equally spaced in 90 minutes, like one every 30 minutes... but she told me that she could live with 2 in 30 minutes and one or two more later... but she gets really cranky if I make her hold on for too long because once I did that, 3 orgasms in the last 10 minutes and she complained that they were not evenly spaced out.

 :champ

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2018, 06:20:43 PM »
I was coming here to post something similar especially after reading Alan's post but you've written it better than I could've. People's obsession with goal difference this year is baffling. I'd also happily wager we won't beat City on GD, but that doesn't matter because the title is going to be won on points.

Fair enough. But I don't see how the obsession with goal difference is so baffling for two reasons:

1. Crystal Fucking Palace. Remember having to go into a game needing to score a shedload of goals that late in the season? I hope it won't go down to GHD but if it does I would rather be close, equal or ahead as we enter the home stretch.

and...

2. Because there is a finite number of points to be won it means that the higher the points total and the closer the race, the more chance there is that GD will be a factor.

Teams like Cardiff should be the perfect opportunity to put some scores on the doors.
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Offline BEAST

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2018, 06:24:23 PM »
If people are going to whine about 4-1 wins then why do they even watch football?  They must live miserable lives and watching Liverpool is only making it worse.

I feel sorry for the people in their lives (family, friends, coworkers) who have to deal with them on a daily basis.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2018, 06:25:49 PM »
If people are going to whine about 4-1 wins then why do they even watch football?  They must live miserable lives and watching Liverpool is only making it worse.

I feel sorry for the people in their lives (family, friends, coworkers) who have to deal with them on a daily basis.

I agree, it just reeks of entitlement, like we've invented football or something and have been winning things year in and year out. Enjoy the bloody journey, otherwise whats the point


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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #66 on: October 29, 2018, 06:33:09 PM »
I think we all hoped Cardiff could be a reall drubbing, certainly had the potential to be. Purely hypothetical but if offered 4-1 before kick off how many of us would have gambled and declined it hoping for something bigger but risking something less?

Offline PatriotScouser

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #67 on: October 29, 2018, 06:33:09 PM »
If we are to finish ahead of City then it will have to be done points wise and not by goal difference. The way they play and the way the opposition are scared stiff of them means they'll probably have a GD of 15-20 goals better than us. As our front 3 aren't in the same prolific form as yet from last season - but still compared to 'normal' terms are each having a good season - then it is expected. Plus City have the squad depth to go for the jugular in each game and as we can see with Jurgen he is managing our energy and we are still winning games and are top.

Anyone moaning about goal difference in terms of catching City needs to stop doing so, alas these people need something to moan about so let them.

If at the end of the season us and City have the same points and City have the superior GD then it isn't the GD that will have cost us the league it will have been the dropped points to whoever we'd have dropped them too.

I'm enjoying the journey with Jurgen and the players and this is what it is all about for me.



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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #68 on: October 29, 2018, 06:35:15 PM »
If we are to finish ahead of City then it will have to be done points wise and not by goal difference. The way they play and the way the opposition are scared stiff of them means they'll probably have a GD of 15-20 goals better than us. As our front 3 aren't in the same prolific form as yet from last season - but still compared to 'normal' terms are each having a good season - then it is expected. Plus City have the squad depth to go for the jugular in each game and as we can see with  he is managing our energy and we are still winning games and are top.

Anyone moaning about goal difference in terms of catching City needs to stop doing so, alas these people need something to moan about so let them.

If at the end of the season us and City have the same points and City have the superior GD then it isn't the GD that will have cost us the league it will have been the dropped points to whoever we'd have dropped them too.

I'm enjoying the journey with  and the players and this is what it is all about for me.




I posted this in the spurs thread since they are playing city today:

When playing City - I wonder why more teams that have some talent don't be a hell of a lot more snide, stuck-in, or downright dirty especially early in the game and, as they say in America - punch them in the mouth - and take them off their game early. Get in their heads and show them that you aren't scared. City are not a tough team - and it seems the rare times teams have done that in the last few seasons against Pep's team they have either gotten results or made city work very hard.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #69 on: October 29, 2018, 06:36:00 PM »
I think we all hoped Cardiff could be a reall drubbing, certainly had the potential to be. Purely hypothetical but if offered 4-1 before kick off how many of us would have gambled and declined it hoping for something bigger but risking something less?

I have confidence in our defensive solidity now so I'd happily roll the dice again.

Anyway, this discussion seems to have moved to the new thread.
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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #70 on: October 29, 2018, 06:38:24 PM »
I have confidence in our defensive solidity now so I'd happily roll the dice again.

Anyway, this discussion seems to have moved to the new thread.


Maverick! :D

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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #71 on: October 29, 2018, 06:40:35 PM »
There are no easy wins in the PL. 4-1 is objectivity a good/great result against any opponent. And while we probably "could have done more" at a point in the game, we didn't really need to. We weren't "fucking crap" or "horseshit". And that's fine. We had two games this week. Cardiff had one. They might be the worst team in the league, but has caused other good teams problems before. There's also always an element that one team can make another team look worse than it actually is.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 06:50:12 PM by Raaphael »

Offline AmanShah21

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #72 on: October 29, 2018, 06:43:30 PM »
We are playing great football. Unbeaten after 10 games in the league. Why would we care about City at all? We dont control how they perform, but as long as we get points on the board, they need to keep up with us the same way all of you think we need to keep up with them. Why is it a foregone conclusion that they'll win the league? They had a fantastic season last year, but they've dropped more points at this stage this season than last. We finished 25 points behind the champions last season. Goal Difference is not something we worry about. Points is where we have the grounds to make. We're not chasing Man City, we are chasing 3 points, week in week out and City are doing the same.

It almost feels like even if we went 3 points ahead of City people would still say we are chasing them because of how super-duper-awesome they are. Relax! I don't give two hoots how the others are doing as long as we do our job week in week out. Their results only interest me if we screw up.

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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #73 on: October 29, 2018, 06:50:23 PM »
Fair enough. But I don't see how the obsession with goal difference is so baffling for two reasons:

1. Crystal Fucking Palace. Remember having to go into a game needing to score a shedload of goals that late in the season? I hope it won't go down to GHD but if it does I would rather be close, equal or ahead as we enter the home stretch.

and...

2. Because there is a finite number of points to be won it means that the higher the points total and the closer the race, the more chance there is that GD will be a factor.

Teams like Cardiff should be the perfect opportunity to put some scores on the doors.
To be fair, there is next to no chance we can compete with City in terms of goal difference. Their underlying numbers both last season and this are significantly stronger than ours. In fact, if we got within 15 of them in terms of GD I'd be delighted.

Although they have had a relatively kind schedule so far, they're running at +2.5 xG difference per game! They take 22 shots per game compared to our 14. They have created 28 big chances compared to our 16.

Defensively they are pretty much impregnable, they only concede 6 shots per game compared to our 8 (which itself is incredible - we probably have the 2nd best defence in Europe).

Last season they finished with a 79 GD - 33 more than our total. Even if we concede about 10 goals fewer than last season and score the same number of goals, we'd still be 23 goals short of City's target from last season and their early numbers this season are even better than last season.

Basically they're a freakish outfit, probably the best team in Premier League history. If we win the league, it will take a large slice of luck and an absurd points total, but we won't go close to them on goal difference.
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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2018, 06:54:09 PM »
To be fair, there is next to no chance we can compete with City in terms of goal difference. Their underlying numbers both last season and this are significantly stronger than ours. In fact, if we got within 15 of them in terms of GD I'd be delighted.

Although they have had a relatively kind schedule so far, they're running at +2.5 xG difference per game! They take 22 shots per game compared to our 14. They have created 28 big chances compared to our 16.

Defensively they are pretty much impregnable, they only concede 6 shots per game compared to our 8 (which itself is incredible - we probably have the 2nd best defence in Europe).

Last season they finished with a 79 GD - 33 more than our total. Even if we concede about 10 goals fewer than last season and score the same number of goals, we'd still be 23 goals short of City's target from last season and their early numbers this season are even better than last season.

Basically they're a freakish outfit, probably the best team in Premier League history. If we win the league, it will take a large slice of luck and an absurd points total, but we won't go close to them on goal difference.
Interesting comparative stats. I guess a significant comparison is the fixtures of both sides. Hopefully tougher fixtures will slow City’s numbers.

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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #75 on: October 29, 2018, 06:55:10 PM »
Feel that we're getting into the territory that it's not enough to win. We need to trash opponents as well. I don't agree with that. The goal difference to me is a bonus. Just fucking win.

Leagues are won in different ways. We're not Man City and don't need to compare every game with them.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 06:58:51 PM by Raaphael »

Offline Bob Sacamano

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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #76 on: October 29, 2018, 06:55:56 PM »
To be fair, there is next to no chance we can compete with City in terms of goal difference. Their underlying numbers both last season and this are significantly stronger than ours. In fact, if we got within 15 of them in terms of GD I'd be delighted.

Although they have had a relatively kind schedule so far, they're running at +2.5 xG difference per game! They take 22 shots per game compared to our 14. They have created 28 big chances compared to our 16.

Defensively they are pretty much impregnable, they only concede 6 shots per game compared to our 8 (which itself is incredible - we probably have the 2nd best defence in Europe).

Last season they finished with a 79 GD - 33 more than our total. Even if we concede about 10 goals fewer than last season and score the same number of goals, we'd still be 23 goals short of City's target from last season and their early numbers this season are even better than last season.

Basically they're a freakish outfit, probably the best team in Premier League history. If we win the league, it will take a large slice of luck and an absurd points total, but we won't go close to them on goal difference.

Yeah pretty much this. They are on another level right now. Doesn't mean the title is impossible...things happen and I suspect they'll have one eye firmly on the champions league....but the margin for error to beat them is virtually nil.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #77 on: October 29, 2018, 07:01:50 PM »
I guess it comes down to a question of what to focus on- I enjoyed the game (who wouldn't want to make 4-1 wins routine) but thought we could have done better with a more focussed display. Thats it, wasn't thinking about goal difference but performance and attitude (who knows, we could have upped the tempo and the game could have finished 2-1).

I also do not think its being entitled to expect us to challenge for the title this year- I think our manager, players and owners do too. We have a great team, manager, fans, stadium, owners and academy. For the first time in a long time we are all pulling in the same direction and want the best for the team. City may have raised expectations on what it takes to win a league but, sadly, that is what we have to aspire to.

And it is possible to both enjoy a win and to want to focus on a performance after a 4-1 win- improvement doesn't just mean learning from dropped points. The journey is great but the memories would be greater if we won the bloody thing

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #78 on: October 29, 2018, 07:04:06 PM »
...If at the end of the season us and City have the same points and City have the superior GD then it isn't the GD that will have cost us the league it will have been the dropped points to whoever we'd have dropped them too...

The dropped points would have made us level. Goal Difference would be the reason we lost the league. There's also a strong statistical relationship between the number of goals scored and the number of points won.
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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #79 on: October 29, 2018, 07:11:31 PM »
To be fair, there is next to no chance we can compete with City in terms of goal difference. Their underlying numbers both last season and this are significantly stronger than ours. In fact, if we got within 15 of them in terms of GD I'd be delighted.

Although they have had a relatively kind schedule so far, they're running at +2.5 xG difference per game! They take 22 shots per game compared to our 14. They have created 28 big chances compared to our 16.

Defensively they are pretty much impregnable, they only concede 6 shots per game compared to our 8 (which itself is incredible - we probably have the 2nd best defence in Europe).

Last season they finished with a 79 GD - 33 more than our total. Even if we concede about 10 goals fewer than last season and score the same number of goals, we'd still be 23 goals short of City's target from last season and their early numbers this season are even better than last season.

Basically they're a freakish outfit, probably the best team in Premier League history. If we win the league, it will take a large slice of luck and an absurd points total, but we won't go close to them on goal difference.

You could do with putting this post in the other thread, I think this needs to be given a wider viewing.
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