Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
538 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 739

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 814216 times)

Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26080 on: September 3, 2019, 10:56:45 PM »
This is Johnson's full statement.

 
Let there be no doubt about the consequences of this vote tonight.
It means that parliament is on the brink of wrecking any deal we might be able to strike in Brussels.
Because tomorrow’s bill would hand control of the negotiations to the EU.
And that would mean more dither, more delay, more confusion.
And it would mean that the EU themselves would be able decide how long to keep this country in the EU.
And since I refuse to go along with that plan we are going to have to make a choice. I don’t want an election. The public don’t want an election. But if the House votes for this bill tomorrow, the public will have to choose who goes to Brussels on October 17 to sort this out and take this country forward.
Everyone will know if the Rt Hon Gentleman is the prime minister, he will go to Brussels, he will beg for an extension, you will accept whatever Brussels demands and we’ll have years more arguments over Brexit.
And by contrast, everyone will know that if I am prime minister, I will go to Brussels, I will go for a deal and get a deal but if they won’t do a deal we will leave anyway on 31 October.
The people of this country will have to choose.
The leader of the Opposition has been begging for an election for two years.
I don’t want an election but if MPs vote tomorrow to stop the negotiations and to compel another pointless delay of Brexit, potentially for years, then that will be the only way to resolve this.
I can confirm that tonight we will are tabling a motion under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act.

Ah missed because he didn’t say it then ;D

What he does says is essentially that they will ignore any bill passed....

Which would be shocking.
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Offline BobPaisley3

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26081 on: September 3, 2019, 10:56:53 PM »
A Tory/BXP alliance has me worried, especially if they plan to not field candidates in the right seats as to not split their votes. Labour on the other hand have got the Lib Dem’s splitting their vote in half, and the LD increase largely being down to hoovering up dissatisfied Labour voters.

Right now Parliament has Boris by the balls, time to make the most of it.
Yeah, Tories/Brexit would win if they followed that idea. You only need to look at the by election in Wales last month, Brexit took about 4K votes away from the Tories. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the Tories stand down in the north and hope Brexit can take Labour down. What happens next though? Back to Brussels for more talks?

Offline redmark

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26082 on: September 3, 2019, 10:57:30 PM »
I don’t want to sound thick, but could someone please explain like I’m 5, exactly what’s happened?

From my understanding as of tomorrow MP’s can propose a bill to take no deal off the table for good, and the government have no way of stopping it if this is voted in?
Today - opposition have voted to seize control of timetable tomorrow, to discuss and vote on...
Tomorrow - a bill forcing Johnson to seek an extension if a deal is not secured at EU summit 17th October and MPs don't then say "ok, let's leave without a deal (not happening)…

But - Johnson will seek a general election; first under Fixed Term Parliaments Act requiring 2/3 majority - Labour to oppose, as he could shift the date to post-31/10. Second, he could try to do so with a ludicrously simple bypassing of the FTPA (which calls into question the point of it), with a simple majority - but that is open to amendments. Finally he could table a vote of no confidence in himself, which might result in an election, but might lead to a Government of National Unity instead. And, possibly, cancel prorogation...

And... stuff.
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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26083 on: September 3, 2019, 10:58:24 PM »

Daniel Hewitt

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Winston Churchill’s grandson Nicholas Soames says he’s been told by the Chief Whip that tomorrow he’ll have the Conservative whip removed.

He also confirms on @BBCNewsnight he won’t stand at the next General Election.
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Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26084 on: September 3, 2019, 10:58:57 PM »
Interesting that this only happened as a result of them proroguing Parliament.

Thems the breaks eh?
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26085 on: September 3, 2019, 11:00:12 PM »
And well played Jeremy Corbyn. Dare I say he listened to the advice of Tony Blair?

Now he should take up John’s suggestion, resign and intimate to his followers that they should vote for Yvette Cooper (or Hilary Benn) as his successor. Johnson would then be well and truly up shit’s creek.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26086 on: September 3, 2019, 11:01:41 PM »
Surely it's in Labour's best interests tactically to not back an election until an extension from the EU has been confirmed?

Passing the bill tomorrow is pointless if there's going to be an election before the 31st of October.

It won't clear the Lords until next week at best. Think Monday is the intended day for the Commons to try and deal with amendments. Once you're past 10th/11th then the election won't happen until after the European Council meeting (emergency one is possible, I suppose) on 17th October. And unless Parliament isn't shut down then there's no time to legislate to reduce the legally required time for a campaign.
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Offline Santta's Red Breastts

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26087 on: September 3, 2019, 11:01:58 PM »
Vicky Young at the BBC now saying the rebels will lose their whips tonight. I think the word is confusion......

Ironic isn't it considering Bozo's hero is Churchill & he's about to kick Churchill's grandson Nicholas Soames out of the party. :o.

Offline redmark

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26088 on: September 3, 2019, 11:02:03 PM »
Rory Stewart won't stand for re-election.
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Offline Trada

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26089 on: September 3, 2019, 11:02:13 PM »
If thats true Labour shouldn't vote for an Election and make them suffer vote after vote.

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4m4 minutes ago

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson has officially removed the whip from all of tonight’s Tory rebels.

The Tories are now a minority administration by -23 MPs.
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Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26090 on: September 3, 2019, 11:03:18 PM »
Rory Stewart won't stand for re-election.
Quite surprised by that...
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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26091 on: September 3, 2019, 11:03:56 PM »
Adam Bienkov

@AdamBienkov
·
9m


Government source: "The Chief Whip is speaking to Tory MPs who did not vote with the Govt this evening. They will have the Tory whip removed."

So Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is going to expel 21 Tory MPs, including two former chancellors and Churchill's grandson.
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Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26092 on: September 3, 2019, 11:04:57 PM »
There are going to be a lot of new faces at the next election, on both sides of the house.

Offline redmark

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26093 on: September 3, 2019, 11:05:22 PM »
Quite surprised by that...
Back to MI5 :).

Big Tory majority (and without looking it up, I'd guess strongly leave), probably no point.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26094 on: September 3, 2019, 11:06:19 PM »
Ah I get you thanks for explaining.

Seems progress has actually been made in this shit show.

No worries. I find it really confusing, and a bit annoying, when people talk about 'taking things off the table' when the reality is they're kicking the can for a few months too. If this goes right, and there's no solution by end of January, it's 'no deal' time again. And that will go on until we either sign up to the Withdrawal Agreement (and then spend years deciding what sort of Brexit we want) or revoke Article 50 or actually crash out.
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Offline redmark

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26095 on: September 3, 2019, 11:06:31 PM »
Even Burgon is sounding almost coherent.
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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26096 on: September 3, 2019, 11:07:00 PM »
Interesting line from Johnson tonight...

I will get a deal form Brussels even if it’s not on the 31st October... this seems to have been missed .... he’s just admitted he won’t get to leave then....


Hmmmm
That is interesting. he's admitting he's talking bol.. when he says he can get a deal before Oct 31st. he doesn't look at it as a deal himself, he's demanding the EU drop the WA and we go straight into a FTA negations as pals. no deal, fancy allowing us to bring any old s.. into the EU m8. yeah no problem Boris, don't bother with all that boring red tape every country in the world uses outside the EU m8.
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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26097 on: September 3, 2019, 11:07:23 PM »
There are going to be a lot of new faces at the next election, on both sides of the house.

I worry that if the Tories win they’ll have gained some people from UKIP/Brexit Party and then we really are looking at a government on the far right of the spectrum. Those “moderates” will be replaced somehow.

Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26098 on: September 3, 2019, 11:09:35 PM »
Back to MI5 :).

Big Tory majority (and without looking it up, I'd guess strongly leave), probably no point.

He actually said he couldn’t stand again, not that he wouldn’t... subtle difference?
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Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26099 on: September 3, 2019, 11:10:00 PM »
That is interesting. he's admitting he's talking bol.. when he says he can get a deal before Oct 31st. he doesn't look at it as a deal himself, he's demanding the EU drop the WA and we go straight into a FTA negations as pals. no deal, fancy allowing us to bring any old s.. into the EU m8. yeah no problem Boris, don't bother with all that boring red tape every country in the world uses outside the EU m8.
It was my mistake, ignore.
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Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26100 on: September 3, 2019, 11:10:43 PM »
I worry that if the Tories win they’ll have gained some people from UKIP/Brexit Party and then we really are looking at a government on the far right of the spectrum. Those “moderates” will be replaced somehow.
It sounds familiar...


Moderates gone all over parliament,.. this is never a good thing...
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Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26101 on: September 3, 2019, 11:10:56 PM »
Ah missed because he didn’t say it then ;D

What he does says is essentially that they will ignore any bill passed....

Which would be shocking.
No he didn't say that, as much of a c*nt as he is. He said if tomorrow's bill passes then he will try to call a GE, and if he wins the GE, he will "get a deal" from the EU on Oct 17, and even if he doesn't get a deal, he'll leave anyway on Oct 31. All of that being IF he wins the GE.

And remember if there's a GE then the next government will not be bound by any bill passed tomorrow. 

He hasn't yet said in the House (and thus on record) that he'll ignore any laws passed - which is not to say that he and his master Cummings aren't planning on doing so
« Last Edit: September 3, 2019, 11:18:27 PM by Ghost Town »
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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26102 on: September 3, 2019, 11:11:10 PM »
He actually said he couldn’t stand again, not that he wouldn’t... subtle difference?

Probably feels the Tory party has been lost to the Brexiteers now.
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Offline Bootleorbust

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26103 on: September 3, 2019, 11:11:25 PM »
Thank, God!

I don’t think I’ve ever been so worried about a political issue as Brexit to the point of having to stop reading the Guardian on-line so much. Today,though, I knew what was going on in the House of Commons unable to think of anything else and getting very scared at the prospect of No Deal.

I have a chronic relapsing health condition. I know the potential harms that could befall me if my medication supply is suddenly interrupted because of a hard Brexit.l And what would this mean for my 95 year old mother. I’m her sole carer, reliant on state benefits. How would she manage if I have to work and she’s on her own all day every day?

There must have been millions of people wondering similar things....Though round here in an area which voted heavily ‘Leave’, perhaps not so many.

Sometimes I find myself in a local supermarket staring at the locals going about their everyday lives seemingly unaware of what could be coming: emaciated public services, harsher working conditions, more austerity and a yet more fractured social fabric.

As Ian Dunt has said, Brexit is a bloody stupid idea.

Obviously, the way forward isn’t that clear but at least the Remainers have landed a blow on the disaster capitalists in the Johnson cabinet. Fucking traitors the lot of them!


Offline OOS

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26104 on: September 3, 2019, 11:11:57 PM »
I worry that if the Tories win they’ll have gained some people from UKIP/Brexit Party and then we really are looking at a government on the far right of the spectrum. Those “moderates” will be replaced somehow.

Could say the same with Labour, but let's worry about that when we get there. Some weirdos got elected in 2017  ;D
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26105 on: September 3, 2019, 11:12:04 PM »
I worry that if the Tories win they’ll have gained some people from UKIP/Brexit Party and then we really are looking at a government on the far right of the spectrum. Those “moderates” will be replaced somehow.

This is inevitable. But it ought to play into Labour’s hands, at least under normal circumstances. The line that Corbyn should use is that the Tory party is turning into a Conservative Militant Tendency - full of dangerous extremists who have entered the party from the margins. He should use the term “Militant Tendency” too.....

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26107 on: September 3, 2019, 11:12:40 PM »
It won't clear the Lords until next week at best. Think Monday is the intended day for the Commons to try and deal with amendments. Once you're past 10th/11th then the election won't happen until after the European Council meeting (emergency one is possible, I suppose) on 17th October. And unless Parliament isn't shut down then there's no time to legislate to reduce the legally required time for a campaign.

Nice one, cheers for clearing that up.
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Offline Ray K

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26108 on: September 3, 2019, 11:12:55 PM »
@hzeffman
Ken Clarke does not appear at all shaken, or lost, by being booted out of the party he's represented for 49 years in the Commons. "Anyone who says I'm not a Conservative is taking an odd political view. It's the Brexit Party rebadged."
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Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26109 on: September 3, 2019, 11:13:18 PM »
Of course, having an election after blocking no deal could also be suicidal.

If Johnson wins the election with a majority (which the pols say is possible) then they could just repeal the bill and it’s no deal here we go with no way of stoping it and all the Tory moderates kicked out...
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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26110 on: September 3, 2019, 11:14:07 PM »
Could say the same with Labour, but let's worry about that when we get there. Some weirdos got elected in 2017  ;D

I must’ve missed Labour deselecting 21 MPs 🤷🏻‍♀️

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26111 on: September 3, 2019, 11:14:29 PM »
https://twitter.com/shippersunbound/status/1169004516840235014?s=21

:lmao

Cat Smith: "As one of several shadow cabinet members stood right next to Jeremy (who was on the phone at the time) I just thought there was some loud bloke who stunk of booze yelling at us."

Guardian journo was saying Cummings had been drinking this evening - apparently wandering round the offices for journalists looking lost and holding a glass of red wine.
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Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26112 on: September 3, 2019, 11:14:36 PM »
Can someone explain to me the consequence of being de-selected and losing the whip?
Just to add to what others have said, removal of the Whip means that those MPs will not be classed as Conservative MPs for as long as the Whip is withdrawn. They will remain MPs but be classed as Independents. Of course, the Whip can be reinstated at any time and they will become Conservative MPs again, so it's only a temporary disarrangement.

Tonight's removal of the Whip is mainly for show; I imagine said Whip would be reinstated before any General Election. Not even Johnson is so thick as to go into an Election 21 MPs down from where he could be.
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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26113 on: September 3, 2019, 11:14:54 PM »
Apparently a number of telephone calls were put through to a number of the rebels to put maximum pressure on them.
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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26114 on: September 3, 2019, 11:15:03 PM »
Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson started the day with 311 MPs, and a majority of one. He's finishing it with 289 MPs, very much the leader of a minority government.

https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1168999111162519552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1168999111162519552&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Flive%2Fuk-politics-49557734


Well done Bozo. :lmao

Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26115 on: September 3, 2019, 11:15:05 PM »
But the Commons can vote that amendment down, right?
Sorry, I wrote 'amendment' when I meant 'motion' (all the jargon begins to meld into one).

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Offline Kekuleyule y'all!

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26116 on: September 3, 2019, 11:15:18 PM »
Alistair Campbell

Just let this sink in ... @NadineDorries is on the government front bench. Ken Clarke,  @DavidGauke @PhilipHammondUK will shortly be deemed unfit to be Tories let alone ministers. This deserves to be the shortest lived premiership of all time.

Offline gamble

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26117 on: September 3, 2019, 11:15:50 PM »
There are going to be a lot of new faces at the next election, on both sides of the house.

whilst I despise nearly all the current generation of Westminster MPs greatly, it will be a massive loss of experience to have such a turnover after the upcoming election. At a time when we need to rebuild the government and politics of this country.

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26118 on: September 3, 2019, 11:17:02 PM »
whilst I despise nearly all the current generation of Westminster MPs greatly, it will be a massive loss of experience to have such a turnover after the upcoming election. At a time when we need to rebuild the government and politics of this country.

Tells you something about this current "Government" though.
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Offline John C

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Re: Brexit Pretty much living the Orwellian future in Airstrip One
« Reply #26119 on: September 3, 2019, 11:17:19 PM »
To think if Unite had selected David instead of Ed to run for Labour in 2010 all we'd have to talk about is a European Cup, fuck all else.
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